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isla
06-22-2016, 06:13 PM
The 'Trump's Evangelical Executive Advisory Board' thread reminded me of a rather distressing event that happened earlier this year. I had been under the impression that the whackier side of Evangelical Christianity was mainly to be found across the pond, but then this happened.

An old friend of ours from Liverpool came to visit us in Scotland. We hadn't seen him in fifteen years, during which time he had become a member of some Pentecostal church. At first there was nothing alarming, but then strange things were revealed. Back in the day our friend was a rock drummer, so I suggested we watch a concert DVD of the band Toto which I had borrowed from a local friend. I thought he would like the drummer. After a couple of minutes he asked us to switch it off, so I thought he didn't like the music. Then he admitted that that he couldn't watch it because the drummer had magical symbols on his drum kit..

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/toto-drummer-simon-phillips-action-9598511.jpg

Then he told us that he could no longer watch Led Zeppelin concerts because when Jimmy Page used a violin bow on his guitar, he also used it to wave spells at the audience.

At some point the conversation turned to sport, and tennis in particular. We sang the praises of Andy Murray, then my wife expressed admiration for Serena Williams. Our friend promptly declared that she was actually a man, or had been before her sex change. OK, she's a big powerful girl, so not entirely out of the bounds of possibility, but then he said the same thing about Michelle Obama, and I realised he was completely off his trolley.

He claims to have received these pearls of wisdom from his church, and the fact that he just soaked them up leaves me seriously concerned about his mental wellbeing.

CK 17
06-22-2016, 06:42 PM
Is it really any crazier than some of the more "main stream" beliefs? That garden of Eden stuff, rising from the dead 3 days after being crucified.

skuthorp
06-22-2016, 06:44 PM
Exit one former friend.

Sky Blue
06-22-2016, 08:11 PM
It is painful and disconcerting to have this happen to very close friends with whom much was shared when young or at a time of coming of age. The basis for the depth of the friendship must accommodate this new filter and it just doesn't work. At least it never has for me.

Gerarddm
06-22-2016, 08:14 PM
^ I recall running into an old college pal about 10 or so years after graduation, and she had become a shiny-eyed religious zealot, quite unlike her rather sedate Boston Brahmin background. Freaked me out. Never bothered to stay in touch.

Daniel Noyes
06-22-2016, 08:17 PM
The 'Trump's Evangelical Executive Advisory Board' thread reminded me of a rather distressing event that happened earlier this year. I had been under the impression that the whackier side of Evangelical Christianity was mainly to be found across the pond, but then this happened.

An old friend of ours from Liverpool came to visit us in Scotland. We hadn't seen him in fifteen years, during which time he had become a member of some Pentecostal church. At first there was nothing alarming, but then strange things were revealed. Back in the day our friend was a rock drummer, so I suggested we watch a concert DVD of the band Toto which I had borrowed from a local friend. I thought he would like the drummer. After a couple of minutes he asked us to switch it off, so I thought he didn't like the music. Then he admitted that that he couldn't watch it because the drummer had magical symbols on his drum kit..

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/toto-drummer-simon-phillips-action-9598511.jpg

Then he told us that he could no longer watch Led Zeppelin concerts because when Jimmy Page used a violin bow on his guitar, he also used it to wave spells at the audience.

At some point the conversation turned to sport, and tennis in particular. We sang the praises of Andy Murray, then my wife expressed admiration for Serena Williams. Our friend promptly declared that she was actually a man, or had been before her sex change. OK, she's a big powerful girl, so not entirely out of the bounds of possibility, but then he said the same thing about Michelle Obama, and I realised he was completely off his trolley.

He claims to have received these pearls of wisdom from his church, and the fact that he just soaked them up leaves me seriously concerned about his mental wellbeing.

What was your friends response when you tried to get him psychological counseling? how did he react to your and the medical professionals attempts at intervention?

skuthorp
06-23-2016, 03:38 AM
A school friend of mine got hooked on Garner Ted via his radio show. Scrub one friend there too.

PeterSibley
06-23-2016, 04:06 AM
A school friend of mine got hooked on Garner Ted via his radio show. Scrub one friend there too.

I used to listen to Garner Ted with a few friends , we were convinced it was satire ..... then I moved to my little valley in the hills and discovered all my neighbours were Garner Ted devotees. Good people but with very strange attitudes on a variety of subjects ....mixed marriage being a centre of contention.

Paul Pless
06-23-2016, 05:37 AM
The Strange Teachings of some Pentecostal Churchesyou do know about the snakes, right?
and the speaking in tongues?

Daniel Noyes
06-23-2016, 06:34 AM
What was your friends response when you tried to get him psychological counseling? how did he react to your and the medical professionals attempts at intervention?

...?

Tom Wilkinson
06-23-2016, 06:56 AM
you do know about the snakes, right?
and the speaking in tongues?

I went to a Pentecostal church with a girlfriend once, in LaGrange, GA. That was enough. Actually, having dinner with her family first was enough, but the church bit was over the top. mom speaking in tongues, her dad the preacher was about as racists as you could get, though he certainly hid that at church. Relationship was pretty well done after that. A bit too out there for me.

Keith Wilson
06-23-2016, 07:36 AM
What was your friends response when you tried to get him psychological counseling? how did he react to your and the medical professionals attempts at intervention?Excuse me? You're just making stuff up here.

FWIW, 'speaking in tongues' is common; I've heard it several times; weird to an outsider, but harmless. Snakes, no; those guys are fringe wackos even among fundamentalists.

isla
06-23-2016, 12:03 PM
What was your friends response when you tried to get him psychological counseling? how did he react to your and the medical professionals attempts at intervention?

Why would I try to get him counseling? He's a man of sixty years old, married for over thirty years with two grown up children. His visit was just for a couple of days while he attended a business conference in Scotland, otherwise we may never have connected again. Just because I'm concerned about him doesn't mean that I will try to intervene in his life.

But to be fair, this thread is not really about him. I simply used him as an example of the strange things being taught by some evangelical churches. I can appreciate that some churches believe that the Devil exists and that they might warn their congregations to watch out for anything that suggests the Devil's influence. But the conspiracy theories involving two prominent black American women, Serena Williams and Michelle Obama, smacks of American right-wing fringe lunacy, and I wonder why these stories are being promulgated by an English based church.

Daniel Noyes
06-23-2016, 12:14 PM
Why would I try to get him counseling? He's a man of sixty years old, married for over thirty years with two grown up children. His visit was just for a couple of days while he attended a business conference in Scotland, otherwise we may never have connected again. Just because I'm concerned about him doesn't mean that I will try to intervene in his life.

But to be fair, this thread is not really about him. I simply used him as an example of the strange things being taught by some evangelical churches. I can appreciate that some churches believe that the Devil exists and that they might warn their congregations to watch out for anything that suggests the Devil's influence. But the conspiracy theories involving two prominent black American women, Serena Williams and Michelle Obama, smacks of American right-wing fringe lunacy, and I wonder why these stories are being promulgated by an English based church.

My mistake, I thought there was a genuine "seriously concerned about his mental wellbeing."
I'm just realizing now this thread is all about Religious Bigotry... just for the joy of making fun of someone else's religious beliefs. :(

(Not sure how Serena Williams fits in with Pentecostal Churches, nothing I've ever heard... and I've spent a lot of time around Pentecostal folk [wonderful people] , sounds like some genuine psychological issuses going on there)

mmd
06-23-2016, 12:27 PM
Aww, c'mon, Daniel - 'fess up. You are just stirring the pot because you like to.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
06-23-2016, 12:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O1hB33Hozw

isla
06-23-2016, 12:47 PM
My mistake, I thought there was a genuine "seriously concerned about his mental wellbeing."
I'm just realizing now this thread is all about Religious Bigotry... just for the joy of making fun of someone else's religious beliefs. :(

(Not sure how Serena Williams fits in with Pentecostal Churches, nothing I've ever heard... and I've spent a lot of time around Pentecostal folk [wonderful people] , sounds like some genuine psychological issuses going on there)

Perhaps my friend is confusing 'proper' Pentecostal churches with websites like this one. Check both links..

https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2016/05/15/sunday-devotional-how-to-listen-to-the-holy-spirit/

https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/2014/03/14/michelle-obama-is-a-transexual/

Daniel Noyes
06-23-2016, 12:51 PM
Aww, c'mon, Daniel - 'fess up. You are just stirring the pot because you like to. In Canada does the phrase "stirring the pot" mean "saying it is rude to make fun of others religion in order to make your political/social group feel BIG, more intelligent... etc?"

Is that what Canadians say to someone who stands up against Bullying... "you are just stirring the pot"

mmd
06-23-2016, 12:53 PM
Keep stirrin' ... something will likely pop up.

Tom Wilkinson
06-23-2016, 01:04 PM
They are welcome to believe whatever they want, but in the case of my friend they couldn't see they own total hypocrisy. Her parents were both Pentecostal preachers, retired, and were complete bigots outside of church. I wanted no part of any of it. The laying of hands, speaking in tongues etc... It looked like nothing more than showmanship. If it were so real why doesn't it happen in other denominations? The service itself wasn't unique. I certainly saw another side of them at dinner and it had nothing to do with gods teachings.

Keith Wilson
06-23-2016, 01:23 PM
I'm just realizing now this thread is all about Religious Bigotry... just for the joy of making fun of someone else's religious beliefs. When is it 'religious bigotry' to point out that some religiously-based ideas are harmful, or simply nuts? Lessee - is it 'religious bigotry to suggest that it's a bad idea to force women to wear black tents as clothing? To suggest that female genital mutilation is an atrocity, no matter how sincere the beliefs that inspire it? That refusing to get your child treated for an easily-cured illness and letter her die by relying on faith healing is wrong? Now, Isla's friend isn't doing anything that's as obviously harmful, but the idea that Jimmy Page is casting spells on the audience with his violin bow or that Michelle Obama is a man - those are every bit as crazy. Should religious ideas be immune from criticism because they're religious? Or does that only apply to Christian ideas; Muslim or Hindu ones being fair game?

Tom Montgomery
06-23-2016, 02:22 PM
Is some poor soul being bullied in this thread?

Tsk tsk.

mmd
06-23-2016, 02:44 PM
Nah. We're just pitching back what's being thrown our way...

George Jung
06-23-2016, 02:46 PM
Ignore the 'noise'.... the peace and tranquility is wonderful!

Norman Bernstein
06-23-2016, 02:57 PM
'Religious bigotry' is when someone is penalized somehow, on the basis of their faith. Criticism of someone's religious beliefs is NOT any sort of bigotry.

johnw
06-23-2016, 03:43 PM
Is it really any crazier than some of the more "main stream" beliefs? That garden of Eden stuff, rising from the dead 3 days after being crucified.

Believing Michell Obama had a sex change is not a religious belief. It's a way of demeaning powerful black women.

There are incredibly strange things in the bible. There's even a graphic novel called "Outrageous Tales of the Bible." They have a long tradition of belief. But what's religious about racism?

Dave Hadfield
06-23-2016, 04:24 PM
A quote from my brother is that it's a whole lot easier to believe than to understand.

johnw
06-23-2016, 04:29 PM
A quote from my brother is that it's a whole lot easier to believe than to understand.

He's a wise man.

PeterSibley
06-23-2016, 04:30 PM
Believing Michell Obama had a sex change is not a religious belief. It's a way of demeaning powerful black women.

There are incredibly strange things in the bible. There's even a graphic novel called "Outrageous Tales of the Bible." They have a long tradition of belief. But what's religious about racism?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz2kYDhe74g

Reynard38
06-23-2016, 04:45 PM
Don't know if he's a Pentecostal, but he sure isn't far from it.

http://wpo.st/uc6i1

Daniel Noyes
06-23-2016, 05:01 PM
Nah. We're just pitching back what's being thrown our way... :) exactly, see mmd knows why the OP was posted... no real care for a disturbed individual! Just an Excuse to Twitter with the other Bildge Rats and feel superior to some other people group...

John of Phoenix
06-23-2016, 05:10 PM
exactly, see mmd knows why the OP was posted...Once again, WHOOSH!

Tom Montgomery
06-23-2016, 05:11 PM
Sheesh.... :rolleyes:

Daniel Noyes
06-23-2016, 05:17 PM
'Religious bigotry' is when someone is penalized somehow, on the basis of their faith. Criticism of someone's religious beliefs is NOT any sort of bigotry.

"Oxford Dictionaries" (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/bigotry).: "Intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself"; "Cambridge Dictionaries" (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/bigot).: "a person... who does not like other people who have different beliefs or a different way of life"

Tom Montgomery
06-23-2016, 05:31 PM
The response to some popular beliefs is justifiably ridicule.

For instance, the belief that the earth is flat. Or that the Apollo moon missions were an elaborate fraud. Or that Serena Williams and Michelle Obama are transexuals. Or that global climate change is not the result of human activity according to legitimate scientific consensus. Or that tax cuts aimed at the top income earners will result in increased job creation and subsequently in increased tax revenue.

I can live side by side with someone who is a member of a marginal Christian sect. My private opinion and my expression in debate that those beliefs are wacko do not rise to the level of "bigotry" or "intolerance."

PeterSibley
06-23-2016, 05:31 PM
So I guess you agree with every religion Daniel, and criticise none of them.

Daniel Noyes
06-23-2016, 05:54 PM
I can live side by side with someone who is a member of a marginal Christian sect. My private opinion and my expression in debate that those beliefs are wacko do not rise to the level of "bigotry" or "intolerance."

Not according to the Oxford Dictionary... what you just said, the belief that some one else's religious beliefs are "wacko" and expressing that in debate, is the "definition" of Bigotry... according to Oxford

PeterSibley
06-23-2016, 05:59 PM
So I guess you agree with every religion Daniel, and criticise none of them.

Daniel?

Tom Montgomery
06-23-2016, 06:01 PM
Well of course he does!

No intolerant bigot is he. He is the PREMIER liberal with regard to personal religious belief! HE is agreeable to EVERY extant religious belief!

LOL! :D

Don't stop Daniel. You crack me up!
.

Vince Brennan
06-23-2016, 06:21 PM
Excuse me? You're just making stuff up here.

Good Heavens, Keith: Consider the source!

Chris Coose
06-23-2016, 06:29 PM
So imagine a gigantic religion based on some snake oil salesman supposedly finding gold tablets with hieroglyphics on em in upper state NY.

Think that "church" might just be open to strange teachings?

Tom Montgomery
06-23-2016, 06:33 PM
Not according to the Oxford Dictionary... what you just said, the belief that some one else's religious beliefs are "wacko" and expressing that in debate, is the "definition" of Bigotry... according to Oxford
So let me get this straight....

If I privately think your religious belief is wacko, and if I go so far as to argue in public debate that the religious belief to which you adhere is wacko, BUT I NEVER DISCRIMINATE AGAINST YOU BECAUSE OF YOUR BELIEF....

I am STILL an intolerant bigot?

With regard to the Oxford Dictionaries... do you understand the MEANING of, "Intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself?"

It appears you do not.