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Arizona Bay
06-19-2016, 05:17 PM
Melt Down at 120 deg.

Arizona GOP delegates resign rather than vote for Trump


Posted: Jun 19, 2016 10:38 AM MSTUpdated: Jun 19, 2016 10:38 AM MSTBy The Associated Press







http://meredithaz.images.worldnow.com/images/10810534_G.jpg (http://meredithaz.images.worldnow.com/images/10810534_G.jpg)DOnald Trump in Arizona on Saturday, June 18, 2016. (Source: KPHO/KTVK)

PHOENIX (KPHO/KTVK) -At least two of several Arizona GOP delegates that have resigned say it's primarily because they refuse to vote for Donald Trump at next month's national convention.
The Arizona Capitol Times reports that nine of the state's 58 delegates to the Republican National Convention in Cleveland have stepped down.
[Raw video: Donald Trump campaign speech in Phoenix - June 18, 2016] (http://www.azfamily.com/clip/12536499/2016/06/18/raw-video-donald-trump-speech-in-phoenix-june-18-2016)
Former Arizona gubernatorial candidate Frank Riggs and Zuhdi Jasser, a Muslim reform advocate, say they were willing to go if there was a chance of a contested convention.
Jasser says he also takes issue with Trump's immigration ban specifically targeting Muslims.
The other resigning delegates include top elected officials such as Attorney General Mark Brnovich and Secretary of State Michele Reagan.
Brnovich and Reagan cited previous commitments as the reason for missing the convention.

CWSmith
06-19-2016, 05:35 PM
Interesting news, but we've all been watching for a GOP anti-Trump revolution and I don't see it happening.

Arizona Bay
06-19-2016, 06:23 PM
It's hard for "conservatives" to go against their programming.

I make a Distinction between Conservatives and "conservatives". Ross M. vs Boatfx

CWSmith
06-19-2016, 06:26 PM
It's hard for "conservatives" to go against their programming.

Their programming says that Clinton is the anti-Christ. Even the moderate GOP governor of Massachusetts says he will not vote this year because he cannot vote for Trump. He won't vote for Clinton, even though she is clearly the superior candidate.

Arizona Bay
06-19-2016, 06:37 PM
Mammon or the anti-Christ, what a choice. Wait, I thought O'bama was the anti-Christ???

CWSmith
06-19-2016, 06:39 PM
Mammon or the anti-Christ, what a choice. Wait, I thought O'bama was the anti-Christ???

Anyone who is effective in opposing them becomes the anti-Christ. It's their go-to play.

Chip-skiff
06-19-2016, 07:09 PM
Politics is one thing.

Eternal damnation is another.

https://mossfilm.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/bosch-detail-of-hell.jpg

Arizona Bay
06-19-2016, 07:12 PM
That's what it feels like here today. 116 deg.

SMARTINSEN
06-19-2016, 07:25 PM
Kudos to Jeff Flake for refusing to vote for Trump. And shame on John McCain for his shameless pandering, it is time for him to go. He lost any respect that he may have had in 2008. Best case scenario: this senile ass looses his primary to a teabagger, and the bagger subsequently gets stomped by Anne Kirkpatrick. One can hope.

Vince Brennan
06-19-2016, 07:30 PM
I think they are expecting a death in the family at the GOP convention!:(

Geez. Jamie, while I understand your reference, I fear that the more rabid of the unthinking right may interpret this as some sort of threat against T. Rump.

Just sayin', may be the better part of valor to amend the wording?

Certainly your choice, but why give 'em anything to pick up and throw?

SMARTINSEN
06-19-2016, 07:31 PM
That's what it feels like here today. 116 deg.
I believe that sheriff Joe will discover that the 9th circle of hell is a frozen river of ice.

elf
06-19-2016, 07:41 PM
Amazing that Regressives like Baker can't recognize a Republican when she's staring them in the face.

What an idiot.

Gerarddm
06-20-2016, 12:21 AM
#8: I have always wondered if Bosch ate hallucigenic foods, like mushrooms or something.

skuthorp
06-20-2016, 02:32 AM
Geez. Jamie, while I understand your reference, I fear that the more rabid of the unthinking right may interpret this as some sort of threat against T. Rump.

Just sayin', may be the better part of valor to amend the wording?

Certainly your choice, but why give 'em anything to pick up and throw?
I was going to say 'don't be ridiculous' but then again……………….

PeterSibley
06-20-2016, 02:36 AM
Their programming says that Clinton is the anti-Christ. Even the moderate GOP governor of Massachusetts says he will not vote this year because he cannot vote for Trump. He won't vote for Clinton, even though she is clearly the superior candidate.

I'd call Clinton a good Republican.

skuthorp
06-20-2016, 02:37 AM
Likely that makes it worse for them Peter.

Rich Jones
06-20-2016, 06:37 AM
The question is: How does delegates resigning affect the convention? Are they replaced with others who will vote for Trump or does Trump lose those votes?

Jim Mahan
06-20-2016, 09:29 AM
It's the opening for the never-trumpers at the convention to birth a different condidate. By their rules; all bets are off if the presumptive doesn't get the minimum number of votes. It isn't illegal for a convention to pick another condidate; it's only against the rules of the convention, which get settled at the convention, which is only a function of the party, not actual government.

The funniest thing is that when that person is no longer the one on the ticket, they'll have to have one of the other, already failed, clown car riders, or Paul Ryan or some other un-electable R fool with at least some face time and name recognition in the recent press. They've already spent all the most viable condidates from their team, and none of them will be any contest for either Bernie or Hillary. What an Rfool turn of events.

If someone charismatic enough does show up, the prophecy is for that person to have survived a mortal headwound, and the temple in Jerusalem will have to be rebuilt on the site currently occupied by the Dome of the Rock. And then there will be seven years of tribulation. As if there haven't already been plenty of years of tribulation. Oh, and the mark of the beast on the hand or the forehead of anyone not raptured.

Norman Bernstein
06-20-2016, 09:39 AM
The question is: How does delegates resigning affect the convention? Are they replaced with others who will vote for Trump or does Trump lose those votes?

Some explanation:


There will be 2,472 Republican delegates going to Cleveland for the national convention, with 1,237 needed for a candidate to secure the nomination — but those intent on blocking Donald Trump are focused on a much more manageable number: 57.That figure is 50 percent plus one of the 112-member Convention Rules Committee, the group with the power to end Trump’s grip on the GOP nomination. A victory there, said the leader of the “Free the Delegates” group on a Sunday night conference call, and it would be all downhill.

“Once it passes Rules … it’s just kind of an easy sell,” said Kendal Unruh, a delegate from Colorado, who predicted that with the committee’s approval, winning over a majority of the full convention would be easy. “They’re not going to be putting up strong resistance to this.”

Trump’s campaign did not respond to a Huffington Post query about Unruh’s new group. Trump himself has called the plan “illegal” — although Supreme Court rulings suggest it is perfectly legal — and a “hoax” by the media.

Unruh is a high school history teacher at a Christian school in suburban Denver. She supported Cruz during the primaries, and a week ago became the latest in a line of Republicans working to keep the nomination from the reality TV star.

Conference call organizers said some 1,000 people participated in the call, up from 30 or so on last week’s, including “hundreds” of delegates and alternates. They announced a new website, freethedelegates2016.com (http://www.freethedelegates2016.com/), and urged Republicans around the country to contact their states’ convention delegates for their support.

Unruh specifically will be asking the Convention Rules Committee, of which she is a member, to pass a “conscience” clause to let delegates out of their obligation to vote for the winner of their state or congressional district. She said that because many Republicans are by their nature “rule-followers,” they would be grateful for “a permission slip” to let them off the hook. She said she was heartened by House Speaker Paul Ryan’s remarks to NBC on Sunday (http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-june-19-2016-n595186) that he wouldn’t be telling delegates what to do.

“They write the rules. They make their decisions,” said Ryan, who as chair of the convention will hold extraordinary power over its actions. “The last thing I would do is tell anybody to do something that’s contrary to their conscience. Of course I wouldn’t do that.”

Unruh and her supporters, though, face a hard reality: Ryan, like many party leaders, has endorsed Trump. He will enter Cleveland with 1,457 delegates (http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/R-PU.phtml) “bound” to vote for him through at least the first ballot. And top Republicans warn that taking the nomination from Trump will be far worse for the party than losing the presidency in November.

Iowa state party chairman Jeff Kaufmann called the new attempt na´ve and hypocritical for trying to undo the will of Republican voters. “The people have spoken in overwhelming number,” he said. “If they pull off what they say they will, we will not have a party. Period.”

The Republican National Committee’s chief strategist, Sean Spicer, called Unruh’s efforts “silly” in a statement late last week. “There is no organized effort, strategy or leader of this so-called movement. It is nothing more than a media creation and a series of tweets,” he said.

And a longtime member of the RNC who will also serve on the Convention Rules Committee said privately that Unruh’s plan is too little and too late. “I don’t think anything happens. It’s over. He won,” he said of Trump.

Republican Party members’ angst about Trump has only gotten more acute in recent weeks. Trump’s fundraising has been sluggish, he has allowed Democrats to outspend him by tens of millions of dollars in advertising in key swing states, and he has shown little interest in building an organized voter-turnout effort.

Most baffling of all, said Texas GOP consultant Matt Mackowiak, is his preference for staging rallies in places like Texas — certain to vote Republican in November— and California — equally certain to vote Democratic — rather than the 10 or so states that will actually decide the outcome.

In the hours he wastes performing those, Trump could be on the phone, making fundraising calls or encouraging volunteer organizers. “Even if he’s just taking a nap and getting recharged, that’s probably a better use of his time,” Mackowiak said. “The last four weeks have been disastrous.”

Still, Republicans are probably better off trying to persuade Trump to drop out than taking the nomination away from him, because doing so would alienate the millions who voted for him this spring.

“It risks losing this base of support Trump has, if not forever, then at least for this election cycle,” Mackowiak said, adding that as bad as Trump’s performance and polling have been, they’re not bad enough yet for party leaders to actively dump him. “I don’t know if there’s enough evidence for skittish Republican leaders to take a bold stand.”

Keith Wilson
06-20-2016, 09:40 AM
And top Republicans warn that taking the nomination from Trump will be far worse for the party than losing the presidency in November.Indeed. The problem (for the Republicans) is that a significant proportion of their likely voters are strong Trump supporters, and neither they nor Trump himself are likely to go quietly without a fight, or to support anyone more acceptable to both the rest of the party and the general public. If Trump is the nominee and loses badly, the party will likely pull itself back together quickly - although they'll still face the same demographic challenges, and Trump will have damaged them somewhat, particularly with Latinos. God know what will happen if Trump is denied the nomination by political maneuvering at the convention. This is a classic case of reaping the whirlwind; stirring up extremism for short-term political gain and having it get out of hand. A thread from three years ago about the radicalization of the American right got revived recently (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?162097-The-Radicalization-of-the-American-Right); it's every bit as relevant now.

elf
06-20-2016, 10:09 AM
The fact is they have no alternative. They have to go through this, even if many of them refuse to cast a ballot.

And afterwards, if any of them actually has a brain, they will discover that now they are the party of the kinds of people who support Mr. Trump.

And, if any of them has a shred of intellectual honesty, they will realize that this is exactly the outcome of the process they have followed and promoted for the last 45 years.

Either the Republicans become the part of the kinds of people who support Mr. Trump, or what few humane and logical ones remain join the mainstream Democrats and let the left side of the Democratic party break off and form an alternative to the Clintonites.

I predict that some portion of those blow-hards who are claiming they will take a pass on the presidential ticket, will actually go vote for Mrs. Clinton just to securely prevent Mr. Trump from getting near the presidency. Then, over a period of 25 years they will try to rebuild their party in their image and after many defeats will decide that it can't be done and either die or go elsewhere.

Durnik
06-20-2016, 10:24 AM
Amazing that Regressives like Baker can't recognize a Republican when she's staring them in the face.

What an idiot.

Ah, but it's less about (claimed or otherwise) policies & all about The Party. Even the Dems do it with 'Hillary at all costs 'cause Bernie is not a real Democrat'. The irony is simply amazing!



#8: I have always wondered if Bosch ate hallucigenic foods, like mushrooms or something.

some lucky people don't need drugs to expand their minds. ;-) The shame is that society often labels them as defective.


eta:

And afterwards, if any of them actually has a brain, they will discover that now they are the party of the kinds of people who support Mr. Trump.

And, if any of them has a shred of intellectual honesty, they will realize that this is exactly the outcome of the process they have followed and promoted for the last 45 years.

I fear you don't understand. For (esp) conservatives, it's _all_ about the tribe, not the individual.

enjoy
bobby

elf
06-20-2016, 10:29 AM
I sure do get that parties are about tribes. That's the problem on both sides. That's the biggest reason that Mr. Sanders was unable to succeed. And why he was and maybe is trying to start a different tribe.


And money is what binds the tribe together, not philosophy.

John Smith
06-20-2016, 10:32 AM
The only way to stop Trump is vote for Clinton.

It's just that simple.

Keith Wilson
06-20-2016, 10:34 AM
I sure do get that parties are about tribes. That's the problem on both sides. That's the biggest reason that Mr. Sanders was unable to succeed. And why he was and maybe is trying to start a different tribe. And money is what binds the tribe together, not philosophy.Nah, too cynical. And it's not at all mostly about money. Look at all the lower-middle-class Republicans voting against their economic interests. Tribalism is hard-wired in the human brain from way, way back, so we're not going to get rid of it, but almost all of human moral progress has come from expanding what we think of as the tribe.

Jim Mahan
06-20-2016, 10:43 AM
...almost all of human moral progress has come from expanding what we think of as the tribe.

There aren't really any others; there are only us. Another way of saying it: God didn't create any filler. To the troglodytes and sociopaths: the rest of society isn't just the background for your existence.

To the solipsists: fxxk me.

Keith Wilson
06-20-2016, 10:47 AM
You may say what you like about religion, but you could do a lot worse worse than 'we are all brothers and sisters'. Of course, you should probably keep that and ditch the mythology, but still . . .

Durnik
06-20-2016, 10:48 AM
but almost all of human moral progress has come from expanding what we think of as the tribe.

true enough. the problem isn't the existence of the tribe so much as when fear takes over.



but you could do a lot worse worse than 'we are all brothers and sisters'. Of course, you should probably keep that and ditch the mythology, but still . . .

aye. it's the mythology of "this isn't the 'real' world, that one is when we die & 'go be with our lord'" which encourages people to believe there's naught wrong with killing & destruction in the here & now - which, here & now, _is_ the real world.

bobby

elf
06-20-2016, 01:34 PM
Nah, too cynical. And it's not at all mostly about money. Look at all the lower-middle-class Republicans voting against their economic interests. Tribalism is hard-wired in the human brain from way, way back, so we're not going to get rid of it, but almost all of human moral progress has come from expanding what we think of as the tribe.
You can't have a viable group without financing. Whether it's in the best interest of the group or not, somehow it has to pay its bills.

Greed for money and power paved the way for the mess the Regressives are in now, and are paving the way for Mrs. Clinton to become the head of her tribe as well.

Don't kid yourself.

oznabrag
06-20-2016, 01:50 PM
You can't have a viable group without financing. Whether it's in the best interest of the group or not, somehow it has to pay its bills.

Greed for money and power paved the way for the mess the Regressives are in now, and are paving the way for Mrs. Clinton to become the head of her tribe as well.

Don't kid yourself.

I think you would do well to take your own advice.

Anyone who could be elected as head of the POS* is not going to negotiate squat.

The Democratic Party, on the other hand, has long traditions of inclusion and standing up for the little guy to defend.

Hillary will beat Donald.

No question about that.

If she wants a second term, she's going to have to demonstrate her ability to work with Bernie.

It really is as simple as that.

Don't kid yourself.

johnw
06-20-2016, 02:25 PM
Indeed. The problem (for the Republicans) is that a significant proportion of their likely voters are strong Trump supporters, and neither they nor Trump himself are likely to go quietly without a fight, or to support anyone more acceptable to both the rest of the party and the general public. If Trump is the nominee and loses badly, the party will likely pull itself back together quickly - although they'll still face the same demographic challenges, and Trump will have damaged them somewhat, particularly with Latinos. God know what will happen if Trump is denied the nomination by political maneuvering at the convention. This is a classic case of reaping the whirlwind; stirring up extremism for short-term political gain and having it get out of hand. A thread from three years ago about the radicalization of the American right got revived recently (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?162097-The-Radicalization-of-the-American-Right); it's every bit as relevant now.

The question is, if they manage to dump Trump, will he run a write-in campaign? That's what could really doom any substitute.

Sky Blue
06-20-2016, 07:01 PM
Trump has received more primary votes than any Republican candidate ever to run for President. Some of you lot ought not be late for your tinfoil hat fitting session.

TomF
06-20-2016, 07:16 PM
Dare I say it, I agree with SB. Trump is gonna be it, for the Reps. While he's a ridiculous pick, and dangerous to the paety's long term prospects, they voted for him. He ain't about to be unhorsed by Cruz, Bush, or anyone else.

Phillip Allen
06-20-2016, 07:21 PM
some people want "democratic" until it doesn't go their way... then their true colors show...

johnw
06-20-2016, 07:24 PM
Dare I say it, I agree with SB. Trump is gonna be it, for the Reps. While he's a ridiculous pick, and dangerous to the paety's long term prospects, they voted for him. He ain't about to be unhorsed by Cruz, Bush, or anyone else.

Oh, he'll probably be the nominee. He's now in the hands of Paul Manafort, who has handled more toxic people than Trump.

But Trump could still melt down so badly that they think they have to replace him. It's his to lose, and I doubt he will.

oznabrag
06-20-2016, 07:25 PM
some people want "democratic" until it doesn't go their way... then their true colors show...

Saved for posterity.

CWSmith
06-20-2016, 07:26 PM
Dare I say it, I agree with SB. Trump is gonna be it, for the Reps. While he's a ridiculous pick, and dangerous to the paety's long term prospects, they voted for him. He ain't about to be unhorsed by Cruz, Bush, or anyone else.

It's going to get very real. Trump's campaign staff blew up today. The real show will be seeing if Trump can hide his true nature and how the party responds.

TomF
06-20-2016, 07:33 PM
It is gonna get real. But the Reps bought him.

American politics have turned ugly this season, though folks have tried to pretend otherwise. Maybe this needs to play itself through.

PeterSibley
06-20-2016, 07:34 PM
some people want "democratic" until it doesn't go their way... then their true colors show...

You must be referring to the Western backed overthrow of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.... after their clear win in a democratic election.

CWSmith
06-20-2016, 07:36 PM
It is gonna get real. But the Reps bought him.

American politics have turned ugly this season, though folks have tried to pretend otherwise. Maybe this needs to play itself through.

Ugly? Trump's negative ratings have gotten worse while he is closing the gap with Clinton. Think about that. More people disapprove of him while more people are getting ready to vote for him. This election is NUTS!

Paul Pless
06-20-2016, 07:37 PM
some people want "democratic" until it doesn't go their way... then their true colors show...couldn't have happened to a better party

Sky Blue
06-20-2016, 07:39 PM
It's going to get very real. Trump's campaign staff blew up today. The real show will be seeing if Trump can hide his true nature and how the party responds.

I think it may have been the Party that has insisted on Lewandowski's departure.

Just a hunch.

CWSmith
06-20-2016, 07:42 PM
I think it may have been the Party that has insisted on Lewandowski's departure.

Just a hunch.

That's my bet. Then a staffer tweeted "The wicked witch is dead" and was let go a few hours later.

Discipline is not that campaign's strong suit.

The real question is whether Trump can be "handled" or will insist on speaking off the cuff.

Phillip Allen
06-20-2016, 07:48 PM
couldn't have happened to a better party

the people voted for Trump... THAT democraacy

Paul Pless
06-20-2016, 07:50 PM
like i said

PeterSibley
06-20-2016, 07:50 PM
The US has little use for democracy, refer to #43.

hokiefan
06-20-2016, 07:54 PM
the people voted for Trump... THAT democraacy

Bunch of really stupid people in this country when Trump becomes the candidate. Most unfit candidate I have seen in my life. Horribly dangerous choice.

John Smith
06-20-2016, 07:55 PM
The question is, if they manage to dump Trump, will he run a write-in campaign? That's what could really doom any substitute.

Substitute is doomed anyway simply from anger at an undemocratic process.

I think they should bite the bullet and openly support Hillary. Imagine if this led to some real compromise and progress starting in January.

John Smith
06-20-2016, 07:57 PM
Trump has received more primary votes than any Republican candidate ever to run for President. Some of you lot ought not be late for your tinfoil hat fitting session.

I agree. It's his. On the other hand, many of those record number of voters voted for him because he is self funding, which turns out to be not true. He loaned his campaign money he expects the RNC to pay off.

I wonder how many cheered his comments about China taking our jobs know his clothing line is made in China.

They may learn this is not the man they voted for.

John Smith
06-20-2016, 07:58 PM
some people want "democratic" until it doesn't go their way... then their true colors show...

We've seen that in both party's primaries.

John of Phoenix
06-20-2016, 10:33 PM
Those "some people" you're attempting to insult are all your fellow reds. They're the only people trying to black list The Donald. Dunning Kruger.

We progressives are gleeful with your selection. Rock on.

:D LMAO :D

John of Phoenix
06-20-2016, 10:38 PM
I think it may have been the Party that has insisted on Lewandowski's departure.

Just a hunch."We don't need no stinkin' FACTS! "

elf
06-21-2016, 08:10 AM
Corey was fired because he didn't get along with the husband of Trump's daughter.

John of Phoenix
06-21-2016, 08:56 AM
So the kids are calling the shots now? Which one is going to play cheney?

elf
06-21-2016, 09:31 AM
The WaPo's take on the firing:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-fires-top-aide-in-an-urgent-move-to-reboot-his-floundering-campaign/2016/06/20/5f36ac9e-36f6-11e6-9ccd-d6005beac8b3_story.html?wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-fires-top-aide-in-an-urgent-move-to-reboot-his-floundering-campaign/2016/06/20/5f36ac9e-36f6-11e6-9ccd-d6005beac8b3_story.html?wpisrc=nl_daily202&wpmm=1)

TomF
06-21-2016, 10:06 AM
I wonder if any of our resident Trump supporters care to ponder whether Cory's dismissal and these rather abysmal fundraising numbers, to say nothing of the apparently very thin ground game, signals that Trump's campaign is seeing some actual value in the skills offered by the political establishment and insiders.

Is needing the competence, experience and networking skills of the very people who Trump's grassroots supporters find toxic, to avoid a seriously embarrassing electoral performance.

Clinton could hardly have had a better "foil" to show the contrast in the competence of her team.

oznabrag
06-21-2016, 10:16 AM
I wonder if any of our resident Trump supporters care to ponder whether Cory's dismissal and these rather abysmal fundraising numbers, to say nothing of the apparently very thin ground game, signals that Trump's campaign is seeing some actual value in the skills offered by the political establishment and insiders.

Is needing the competence, experience and networking skills of the very people who Trump's grassroots supporters find toxic, to avoid a seriously embarrassing electoral performance.

Clinton could hardly have had a better "foil" to show the contrast in the competence of her team.

All this is true, but Trump is the 'presumptive' nominee.

I am VERY guardedly optimistic about this.

TomF
06-21-2016, 10:38 AM
The #freethedelegates option is the nuclear option. If the GOP tries some kind of scallawaggery to steal what Trump's "won" under their own rules, there quite literally will be blood. His hardest hardline supporters will go ballistic. One cannot think that the GOP brass doesn't know this. I think that the fuse is lit, and really there's no way for the GOP to stop it from going off at their convention; the word "presumptive" will be erased, and Trump will simply be the nominee.

Actually, I think of this as kinda like a "tragedy of the commons" kind of market failure. The GOP has been quite heedless to the damage that their style of politics has caused (even within their own party) for decades now, and Trump is the equivalent of a crash in the Cod stocks, or a pasture disappearing from overgrazing, or climate change finally making some parts of the country uninhabitable. It coulda been stopped long ago, but not anymore. So for a while we'll simply have to let the consequences play out, and hope that there are some pieces to pick up later.

oznabrag
06-21-2016, 10:54 AM
The #freethedelegates option is the nuclear option. If the GOP tries some kind of scallawaggery to steal what Trump's "won" under their own rules, there quite literally will be blood. His hardest hardline supporters will go ballistic. One cannot think that the GOP brass doesn't know this. I think that the fuse is lit, and really there's no way for the GOP to stop it from going off at their convention; the word "presumptive" will be erased, and Trump will simply be the nominee.

Actually, I think of this as kinda like a "tragedy of the commons" kind of market failure. The GOP has been quite heedless to the damage that their style of politics has caused (even within their own party) for decades now, and Trump is the equivalent of a crash in the Cod stocks, or a pasture disappearing from overgrazing, or climate change finally making some parts of the country uninhabitable. It coulda been stopped long ago, but not anymore. So for a while we'll simply have to let the consequences play out, and hope that there are some pieces to pick up later.

Yup.

John of Phoenix
06-21-2016, 04:53 PM
I wonder if any of our resident Trump supporters care to ponder whether Cory's dismissal and these rather abysmal fundraising numbers, to say nothing of the apparently very thin ground game, signals that Trump's campaign is seeing some actual value in the skills offered by the political establishment and insiders.

Is needing the competence, experience and networking skills of the very people who Trump's grassroots supporters find toxic, to avoid a seriously embarrassing electoral performance.

Clinton could hardly have had a better "foil" to show the contrast in the competence of her team.At some point, SB is going to clarify his position.

"It was all a grand troll."