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Norman Bernstein
06-08-2016, 03:39 PM
Lots of talk... in Republican circles... about dumping him.


After nearly a week long fire storm surrounding Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and his attacks on a federal judge because of his Mexican heritage, which led to harsh criticism from his supporters (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/paul-ryan-trump-s-attacks-judge-are-definition-racist-comment-n587171) and even one un-endorsement (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/donald-trump-receives-his-first-un-endorsement-n587416), some Republicans are raising the specter that a new nominee could replace Trump.

Bob Vander Plaats, a supporter and campaign co-chair of former candidate Sen. Ted Cruz, suggested that a convention coup at next month's Republican nominating convention in Cleveland is possible.

"Everything's got to be on the table," said Vander Plaats, acknowledging to NBC News that could mean an effort to unbind the delegates from having to vote for Trump on the convention floor.

Vander Plaats said Trump's recent tirade against Judge Gonzalo Curiel is leading to "more and more questions going into Cleveland."

Conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt also vocalized a plan B on his radio program, saying that "the party ought to change the nominee because we're going to get killed with this nominee."

But despite Vander Plaats and Hewitt's suggestion, two Republican National Committee rules committee members said they reject the notion, and Cruz's own top delegate aide quashed the idea on Wednesday.

Ken Cuccinelli, who worked as the Cruz campaign's top delegate wrangler, emphatically refuted, telling NBC News, that such efforts to change the party rules to defeat Trump won't happen. Cuccinelli continues to oversee an effort among Cruz loyalists to influence the platform and rules committees at the convention.
"That's not going to happen at least among our people," Cuccinelli said. "I will say clearly we are not participating, and we are dissuading people from any effort to change the nominating effort in the rules committee."

But Trump opponents might not listen to efforts at dissuasion.

A.J. Spiker, the former national political adviser for Rand Paul's presidential campaign, backed a potential bid to overthrow Trump, calling on delegates to "vote their conscious" and "stop that man." He suggested Cruz naturally has the "most true support" among the delegates headed to Cleveland and that the campaign's infrastructure would not be far behind if at all what Trump's camp has tried to put together.

"I'd rather have the challenge of having to raise some money than having to pick up all the pieces that Donald Trump has smashed," Spiker said.

To change the rules, the RNC's rules committee a body of 112 members would have to vote by a simple majority in favor of unbinding the delegates, which would then require the approval of the entire convention delegation.

Even Vander Plaats, the president of the social-conservative group the Family Leader, noted the significant hurdle it would take to oust Trump in Cleveland.

Because he is openly discussion the scenario is perhaps more symbolic of how damaging the last two weeks have been for Trump as some Republicans look for a way out from their previous support.

"Practically speaking, do we think it's even remotely possible that someone could come out of Cleveland other Trump?" Vander Plaats rhetorically asked. "It's highly unlikely, but it's been an exceptionally unprecedented election. And maybe the unprecedentedness continues."

Vander Plaats laid out his delegate math and how an open vote on the convention floor next month could play out in favor of Cruz.

"Of the delegates who were going to go, you're looking at a majority who were Cruz delegates," Vander Plaats said. "And the delegates who were going to attend the convention, for probably 500 or less, Donald was their first choice."

Asked whether Cruz would put himself up for the nomination in Cleveland, Vander Plaats said: "We know he was interested in being the nominee for president - it's a question of whether he or anyone would be open to accepting the mantle in that fashion."

Two Republican National Committee members, however, rejected the suggestion that an upheaval at the convention is plausible.

Morton Blackwell, an RNC committeeman and rules member from Virginia since 1988, told NBC News, flatly, that choosing someone other than Trump "wouldn't be fair" and would split the party.

"It would be a chaotic mess and stupid it's a fantasy and will not happen," said Blackwell, who supported Cruz in the primary and calls him a personal friend. "There are too many sensible people involved."

Steve Scheffler, an RNC committeeman and rules member from Iowa, also disputed the notion that the rules committee would upend the primary and caucus results.

"The people of this country have spoken," Scheffler said. "Now is time to get on board and unify, and all these theatrics and doing something silly is not a smart thing to do."

Vander Plaats emphasized the desire for Trump to change but expressed nearly zero optimism in that outcome.

"Without some sort of a pivot point, like, 'Listen, I was wrong, and I'm going to repent and ask for forgiveness,' which doesn't seem to be coming anytime soon, we don't see that happening," he said.

S.V. Airlie
06-08-2016, 03:46 PM
This is what worries me. Wish this garbage had surfaced after the convention as there is more time!

Cruz for president, I can see it now! Already has delegates, meets the criteria having run etc.

Nicholas Scheuer
06-08-2016, 04:08 PM
Main criteria is that Cruz is another Scum Bag, just different recipe of scum.

S.V. Airlie
06-08-2016, 04:09 PM
Oh I know!

hokiefan
06-08-2016, 04:10 PM
Main criteria is that Cruz is another Scum Bag, just different recipe of scum.

I think a Cruz presidency might be worse than a Trump presidency. Not by much maybe, and both would be extremely bad.

Reynard38
06-08-2016, 04:13 PM
Donald is a self serving, narcissistic nut.

Cruz is a religious zealot. That is MUCH more frightening.

S.V. Airlie
06-08-2016, 04:13 PM
Donald is a self serving, narcissistic nut.

Cruz is a religious zealot. That is MUCH more frightening.Oh, again, I agree!

TomF
06-08-2016, 04:17 PM
Neither will happen. Trump won't get dumped at the Convention, and won't get elected in November.

What will happen IMO is a rather vicious conflict within the Republican party starting now, and carrying on well through the next few years. Leading (I hope) to an actual responsible Conservative alternative by the time the 2024 election rolls 'round.

John of Phoenix
06-08-2016, 04:20 PM
Donald is a self serving, narcissistic nut.

Cruz is a religious zealot. That is MUCH more frightening.Borowitz, in a rare very serious moment, said something very similar. Stop paying attention to Trump's antics and look at how crazy Cruz actually is.

elf
06-08-2016, 04:34 PM
The problem with Cruz is not that he's a massively deluded religious idiot. The problem is that he's smart.

Trump is stupid as well as shallow, self-centered, disconnected from reality, a bully and a chronic boaster.

If you think the Republican party doesn't like Trump, keep in mind how much they actually like the things that Cruz has been selling for the last 4 years in the Senate.

Trump appears to believe, or at least assert, that if elected he would make the Federal government do things his way.

Cruz want to break the Federal government entirely, strip it of every power, completely defund every department except the DOD, eliminate everything it has done for the last 175 years.

S.V. Airlie
06-08-2016, 04:38 PM
Again, everything you say is right! Depressing!

ahp
06-08-2016, 04:49 PM
Main criteria is that Cruz is another Scum Bag, just different recipe of scum.

Cruz wants to use nukes to solve the Mideast problem. A very dangerous idiot.

Keith Wilson
06-08-2016, 05:06 PM
Given a choice between Cruz and Trump, I'd take Trump anytime. Fortunately, we have other choices.

paulf
06-08-2016, 05:11 PM
I hope he can hang in there till the general...he's just so....beatable!

Boatfix
06-08-2016, 09:34 PM
Its sure going to be fun seeing the reaction here when Donald Trump wins.

oznabrag
06-08-2016, 09:53 PM
Its sure going to be fun seeing the reaction here when Donald Trump wins.

Ain't gonna happen.

oznabrag
06-08-2016, 09:53 PM
http://thumbs.carbonated.tv/200204_banner.jpg?ver=5

Jimmy W
06-08-2016, 10:01 PM
Trump might be horrible, but Cruz is worse.

Jim Mahan
06-08-2016, 10:22 PM
I think it's hilarious that the Rs are finally all in a lather about the guy with mouth, the orange hair and the tiny hands getting the nod—and their relief, their solution to the problem is to consider not letting him have the nomination—and for a savior if they can manage an unprecedented and highly risky, and doomed to failure, attempt to hijack the convention, to unseat their erstwhile but presumtive nominee, and the best they can come up with is Cruz. In a few short minutes I'll stop rolling on the floor, and when I get my breath back, I'll compose the rest of this post.

Whoo-hoo hoo.

Okay. Romney is about a thousand times better qualified, and that much more acceptable, to be president than any of this year's alumni of the clown car, and everyone on the planet knows he couldn't beat Hillary or Bernie in a three legged race at the picnic, let alone at the ballot box. The Rs had no real chance at the White House this time around going in, but they all went the through the drama and money-raising as if they didn't know that. The millions who voted for Cruz or Trump or Kasich had no clue, and the media treating the jv team as if they were on a par with either of the Ds, or any previous candidate from either party, that they were legitimately viable candidates have the impending disappointment of all those particular millions, on their pointy heads.

Duncan Gibbs
06-08-2016, 10:31 PM
Interestingly enough this is an echo of what happened here when we saw the rise of Pauline Hanson, although to a much, much, much larger degree the conservative side of politics managed the whole jump to the right far better and used it to wedge the left, particularly on the issue of refugees coming in boats.

What we see from the outside is this jumping to the right occurring in the GOP without any sense of direction, so much so that they've wandered off a cliff into a political abyss that will take them a very long time to get out of.

In the main in the Western World, politics is won in the centre and now in the USA the Democratic Party has got that position well and truly occupied.

Trump will keep the nomination and he will crash and burn in November. From here until 2020 the GOP will destructively convulse until they figure out that they have to deal with an entirely new demographic. The Democratic Party appears to have at least begun to adjust to this newer reality, but it doesn't mean they aren't in any danger from falling into its pitfalls either.

My 2c.

Jim Mahan
06-08-2016, 10:39 PM
Another thing that I think is worth considering, is that all of the public statements by the Rs that think Trump is a mistake for the nominee, are only concerned, by their own admission, with the likely damage to their party; none of them even mentioned that he would be the hugest mistake ever for an actual president; showing zero actual concern for the country.

Gerarddm
06-08-2016, 11:15 PM
Given that Drumpf got millions of votes, if the party establishment tried to rejigger the rules so that the convention would be contested, it would grenade the GOP into oblivion.

No, I think they have made their bed with the devil, and now they have to sleep with him. Depending on how much more whack he gets, Republican pooh-bahs and the donor class may decide to pour their efforts into trying to preserve what they can of the down ticket races. I see one of the notorious Koch brothers has already said Drumpf is the wrong guy.

Nevertheless, and as usual, see my signature.

Kevin T
06-08-2016, 11:27 PM
Its sure going to be fun seeing the reaction here when Donald Trump wins. Trump will lose, you can bet the mortgage on it.

Demographics, despite what our distinguished colleague from England OH may wish for, are completely against Herr Trump.

John Smith
06-09-2016, 05:56 AM
I have a real problem with Republicans who have said he is not fit to be president doing an about face and supporting him anyway. THIS should be damaging their party as a whole. Christie, in NH, told us Trump was not fit to be president, then turned around and supports him. He's not alone

All I can say to my GOP friends is replacing Trump by some form of undemocratic tactics will damage whomever replaces him. And those tactics won't make your party look good. If they really want to stop Trump, they should vote for Hillary. The country seems much more likely to survive her being president than him being president.

Ms. Bee's take http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/07/samantha-bee-on-how-republicans-bent-over-for-donald-trump.html

skuthorp
06-09-2016, 06:09 AM
I have a real problem with Republicans who have said he is not fit to be president doing an about face and supporting him anyway. THIS should be damaging their party as a whole. Christie, in NH, told us Trump was not fit to be president, then turned around and supports him. He's not alone

All I can say to my GOP friends is replacing Trump by some form of undemocratic tactics will damage whomever replaces him. And those tactics won't make your party look good. If they really want to stop Trump, they should vote for Hillary. The country seems much more likely to survive her being president than him being president.

Ms. Bee's take http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/07/samantha-bee-on-how-republicans-bent-over-for-donald-trump.html

There's a word that could be used to describe the GOP over their last minute support for Trump, but it would be an insult to honest working girls.

John of Phoenix
06-09-2016, 10:44 AM
Another thing that I think is worth considering, is that all of the public statements by the Rs that think Trump is a mistake for the nominee, are only concerned, by their own admission, with the likely damage to their party; none of them even mentioned that he would be the hugest mistake ever for an actual president; showing zero actual concern for the country.I can't remember the last time reds did anything but further the welfare of the party. The good of the nation and its citizens hasn't been a concern for a looong time.

John A. Campbell
06-09-2016, 05:33 PM
Just remember, Guys and Gals.....we can't let Trump fall too soon.......keep him in the saddle a couple or maybe three months and then flush him down the terlet. I'm terribly afraid Cruz is waiting in the wings and that would be worse than Trump but I'm confident Hillary can easily beat either.

CWSmith
06-09-2016, 05:39 PM
They won't dump him. They all lined up to kiss his ring.

Gerarddm
06-09-2016, 06:14 PM
^ I believe they are kissing something else. Ahem.

Too Little Time
06-09-2016, 09:21 PM
It is interesting that despite the number of lawsuits and complaints Trump has little trouble in hiring construction contractors, workers, and lawyers.

I don't think we would ever do business with him. But he would not be interested in our services.

Have there been presidents that have treated people worse? I can think of some who owned slaves. I can think of instances where the federal government used troops against American citizens even after 1878.

Vince Brennan
06-13-2016, 12:14 PM
Boatie, TLT, your continued praising and "defense" of Donnie-boy has been and will continue to be of NO avail here. Those who support you cannot hear the multitudinous voices of reason pointing out the falsities of your arguments and since you will not convince any of those who are opposed to the Slime Ball that their opinions are in error, why not just give it up?

Go find a political forum (WHAT? NOT a Wooden Boat Forum?) where you can proclaim your support for Der Drumpfster and perhaps get implosion insurance at a group rate.

I shall be VERY un-surprised to see a good number of present Trumpettes (with suspiciously recent join dates) suddenly disappear in early November.

Happened before...

StevenBauer
06-13-2016, 03:25 PM
Didn't you guys hear? Charles Koch will get the nomination and have Herman Cain as his running mate. The most popular Republican ticket ever- Koch/Cain!

Nicholas Scheuer
06-13-2016, 04:38 PM
It's now growing clearer why so may here liked The Shrub. They like Trump even better, and that nothing less than astounding.

Nicholas Scheuer
06-13-2016, 05:56 PM
Were I Obama I'd call in the FBI Director, have him stand at attention in the middle of the Oval Office and simply ask "how long dies he (himself) have to take **** from Repubs because the FBI has its collective head up its collective ass? You either do your job, or I'll get someone who will. That will be all."

Kevin T
06-14-2016, 05:48 PM
Didn't you guys hear? Charles Koch will get the nomination and have Herman Cain as his running mate. The most popular Republican ticket ever- Koch/Cain!

Brilliant! ;-) :-)

Garret
06-14-2016, 06:29 PM
Were I Obama I'd call in the FBI Director, have him stand at attention in the middle of the Oval Office and simply ask "how long dies he (himself) have to take **** from Repubs because the FBI has its collective head up its collective ass? You either do your job, or I'll get someone who will. That will be all."

I said something very similar to that about 15 min. ago. I agree completely & just don't get it!

Ian McColgin
06-14-2016, 06:41 PM
But of course we all know that the Director of the FBI is a ten year appointment. Once the President's nominee has been confirmed by the Senate, the whole idea is that the Director is 100% protected from political winds. Can't be removed. Maybe for some felony but basically can't be fired.

oznabrag
06-14-2016, 06:44 PM
But of course we all know that the Director of the FBI is a ten year appointment. Once the President's nominee has been confirmed by the Senate, the whole idea is that the Director is 100% protected from political winds. Can't be removed. Maybe for some felony but basically can't be fired.


Unless, of course, Mussolini is in the White House.