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View Full Version : Should Hillary release her list of potential Supreme court picks?



genglandoh
05-30-2016, 09:57 PM
Trump has released his list.
I think it would be a good idea for Hillary to release her list.

What do you think?

Norman Bernstein
05-30-2016, 10:00 PM
Unlike Trump, she doesn't need to pander.

genglandoh
05-30-2016, 10:03 PM
Unlike Trump, she doesn't need to pander.

So explaining her position with a list of potential picks is not important.
I thought she would jump at the opportunity to talk about issues.

Norman Bernstein
05-30-2016, 10:08 PM
So explaining her position with a list of potential picks is not important.
I thought she would jump at the opportunity to talk about issues.

If/when she's elected, there's no doubt she'll make a selection. She wont 'publish a list'. The only reason Donald Trump published a 'list' (something which isn't normally done, and is in especially bad taste, since it's not a competition), was to try to demonstrate his conservative bona-fides. In other words, it was a campaign stunt.

And you obviously fell for it.

genglandoh
05-30-2016, 10:11 PM
If/when she's elected, there's no doubt she'll make a selection. She wont 'publish a list'. The only reason Donald Trump published a 'list' (something which isn't normally done, and is in especially bad taste, since it's not a competition), was to try to demonstrate his conservative bona-fides. In other words, it was a campaign stunt.

And you obviously fell for it.

So if Hillary does release her list before the General Election will you call it a campaign stunt?

Norman Bernstein
05-30-2016, 10:14 PM
So if Hillary does release her list before the General Election will you call it a campaign stunt?

I don't expect her to, and very seriously doubt she'll do any such thing. If she does, then yes, I will be disappointed in her.

But, more importantly, she doesn't need to. Unlike Trump, she doesn't have to convince anyone of her party and ideological affiliation. Trump DOES have to do that.

CWSmith
05-30-2016, 10:14 PM
No, there is no reason to release such a list so far in advance.

Also, not knowing what your next 3 questions will be, I feel confident answering them now:

No

No

and No.

Shang
05-30-2016, 10:18 PM
Hillary should name just one: Barack Obama.

SMARTINSEN
05-30-2016, 10:26 PM
Trump's list was provided to him by the Heritage Foundation, just names on a list, I seriously doubt that he has any inkling of their judicial bona fides.

genglandoh
05-30-2016, 10:58 PM
I don't expect her to, and very seriously doubt she'll do any such thing. If she does, then yes, I will be disappointed in her.

But, more importantly, she doesn't need to. Unlike Trump, she doesn't have to convince anyone of her party and ideological affiliation. Trump DOES have to do that.

I agree that Trump released his list to help unify the Rep party behind him.

With all the Sanders supporters who are saying they will not support Hillary in the General Election, I think it is very possible she will release her list to also help unify the Dems behind her.

Chip-skiff
05-30-2016, 11:29 PM
Trump handed out a list that someone handed to him.

I'd rather see his tax return.

Nicholas Scheuer
05-31-2016, 06:30 AM
So geng, let me see if I understand you correctly; any half-baked, off-the-wall, horse's ass idea Trump blathers to his air-head followers should be copied by Hillary?

TomF
05-31-2016, 07:58 AM
Trump handed out a list that someone handed to him.

I'd rather see his tax return.Exactly.

skuthorp
05-31-2016, 08:11 AM
Hillary should name just one: Barack Obama.
The country's political system has f….. him about enough already, why would he want that?
I don't know why he wanted his present job in the first place. Talk about a poisoned chalice.

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 08:15 AM
Trump handed out a list that someone handed to him.

I'd rather see his tax return.


Exactly.


If he does/did release his Tax Return(s) are you guys actually going to get a copy and go examine it line-by-line or are you going to just listen to what the media (left or right) makes of it and reports? :rolleyes:

S.V. Airlie
05-31-2016, 08:19 AM
I'd like the option. And believe me, it would be carefully scrutinized, analyzed and regretted by a lot of people. Of course, his puppets won't, I question that they can even read!

Norman Bernstein
05-31-2016, 08:21 AM
If he does/did release his Tax Return(s) are you guys actually going to get a copy and go examine it line-by-line or are you going to just listen to what the media (left or right) makes of it and reports? :rolleyes:

Unless you're a tax expert, his tax returns would be useless and impenetrable without some interpretation by experts.

Sure, some media will spin it one way or the other... but there are more than enough honest journalists to provide a fair and clear overview of what the returns would reveal.

Meanwhile, regardless of whether Trump is a tax fraud or not, many people are suggesting that his boast of having a net worth of $11B is simply a lie... and there's a long
Politico article about it:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-money-net-worth-223662

I don't care what Donald Trump's net worth is, or not. I DO care about the man's character, because it DOES matter, if he were elected President. I've seen enough of his lies to know that he doesn't HAVE any character... but the tax returns would be the icing on the cake.

What amazes me, however, is why people support him, at all.... just how appealing, to people, is a narcissistic, ego-maniacal braggart?

TomF
05-31-2016, 08:23 AM
If he does/did release his Tax Return(s) are you guys actually going to get a copy and go examine it line-by-line or are you going to just listen to what the media (left or right) makes of it and reports? :rolleyes:I'm gonna wait and see what the actual tax experts say, and if they find anything look at the specific entries for myself.

Not being a tax lawyer, let alone one with expertise in American tax law, I know when I need to rely on the pros. I didn't engineer the loads for beams in my house either.

Vince Brennan
05-31-2016, 08:38 AM
Rummy, to quote the immortal words of Mr. Eddie Temple, "Do you know what a remora is?"

Sky Blue
05-31-2016, 08:39 AM
I'm gonna wait and see what the actual tax experts say, and if they find anything look at the specific entries for myself.


Why on earth would you do that? You've already convinced yourself he's a fascist. That he might be a tax cheat would cinch things for you?:rolleyes:

Norman Bernstein
05-31-2016, 08:46 AM
Why on earth would you do that? You've already convinced yourself he's a fascist. That he might be a tax cheat would cinch things for you?:rolleyes:

I get the general impression that if he WERE to be shown to be a tax cheat... or if it were shown that he's been lying about his wealth... it wouldn't make the slightest difference to you.

It's called 'blind support'.

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 08:49 AM
Unless you're a tax expert, his tax returns would be useless and impenetrable without some interpretation by experts.

Sure, some media will spin it one way or the other... but there are more than enough honest journalists to provide a fair and clear overview of what the returns would reveal.

Meanwhile, regardless of whether Trump is a tax fraud or not, many people are suggesting that his boast of having a net worth of $11B is simply a lie... and there's a long
Politico article about it:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-money-net-worth-223662

I don't care what Donald Trump's net worth is, or not. I DO care about the man's character, because it DOES matter, if he were elected President. I've seen enough of his lies to know that he doesn't HAVE any character... but the tax returns would be the icing on the cake.

What amazes me, however, is why people support him, at all.... just how appealing, to people, is a narcissistic, ego-maniacal braggart?

So most will just await media reports. I am sure that various leanings will apply the spin their way.

As to whether if it turns out he is not worth $11B (or whatever he claims), I suspect that he would claim it was only his estimate pending the actual accounting and attribute it to hyperbole.
Given this C&P excerpt from your listed link

“Trump has a tendency to value his brand at a very high amount, but these are usually intangible valuations just pulled out of thin air,” said Steve Stanganelli, a certified financial planner at Clear View Wealth Advisors. “And he appears to be reporting gross revenue. There is a huge difference between that and net income. What really matters is what you put in the bank.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/donald-trump-money-net-worth-223662#ixzz4AF0dgbIl


As to why people support him, or any other person, is a matter of personal choice. It is also a reflection on America and its current political position.

Norman Bernstein
05-31-2016, 08:56 AM
As to whether if it turns out he is not worth $11B (or whatever he claims), I suspect that he would claim it was only his estimate pending the actual accounting and attribute it to hyperbole.

Translation: he's been lying about it, because his narcissism and egomania compels him to do so. Yup, that's a fine character attribute, all right.

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 09:10 AM
Translation: he's been lying about it, because his narcissism and egomania compels him to do so. Yup, that's a fine character attribute, all right.


Given that regarding Mr Trump "his narcissism and egomania compels him to do so", what is the explanation for Mrs Clinton?


From what I have seen/read is that the front runners for presidential candidate for both parties have been lying.




Yup, that's a fine character attributes for them both, all right. http://www.peacetakescourage.com/forum/images/smilies/sarcasmstamp.gif

Norman Bernstein
05-31-2016, 09:15 AM
Given that regarding Mr Trump "his narcissism and egomania compels him to do so", what is the explanation for Mrs Clinton?

She's already released her tax returns... repeatedly, and profusely, over MANY years.


From what I have seen/read is that the front runners for presidential candidate for both parties have been lying.

Most people recognize that all politicians lie... but that doesn't mean that there aren't any differences. According to Politifact, 76% of Donald Trumps' investigated statements are either half false, mostly false, or 'pants on fire' lies.... but Hillary Clintons' statements are 72% 'half true', 'mostly true', or 'true'.

So, who is the bigger liar?

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 09:36 AM
She's already released her tax returns... repeatedly, and profusely, over MANY years.

Most people recognize that all politicians lie... but that doesn't mean that there aren't any differences. According to Politifact, 76% of Donald Trumps' investigated statements are either half false, mostly false, or 'pants on fire' lies.... but Hillary Clintons' statements are 72% 'half true', 'mostly true', or 'true'.

So, who is the bigger liar?

You want to debate one is less of a liar than the other????

I would leave it as the important and very sad thing is that they are BOTH liars and furthermore regretfully are the choice the American public have to make, which will have far reaching consequences (not just for the USA) whomsoever becomes President.

Norman Bernstein
05-31-2016, 09:41 AM
You want to debate one is less of a liar than the other????

Yeah, I do. It's easy and facile to argue that 'all politicians are liars'.... but the practical reality is that one of them is going to be elected. It's perfectly reasonable to make judgments about 1) how MUCH they lie, and 2) WHAT they lie about.

There is a striking and dramatic difference between the two, in that respect.....

....and it's a difference that blind loyalty obviously can't perceive.

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 09:49 AM
Yeah, I do. It's easy and facile to argue that 'all politicians are liars'.... but the practical reality is that one of them is going to be elected. It's perfectly reasonable to make judgments about 1) how MUCH they lie, and 2) WHAT they lie about.

There is a striking and dramatic difference between the two, in that respect.....

....and it's a difference that blind loyalty obviously can't perceive.

What a choice, a tale of two liars.


I would leave it as the important and very sad thing is that they are BOTH liars and furthermore regretfully are the choice the American public have to make, which will have far reaching consequences (not just for the USA) whomsoever becomes President.

Norman Bernstein
05-31-2016, 09:53 AM
What a choice, a tale of two liars.

Name me a politician who never told a lie... and then tell me which ones lied the most.

TomF
05-31-2016, 09:54 AM
... I would leave it as the important and very sad thing is that they are BOTH liars and furthermore ...That strongly implies equivalence, and such an implication is itself a lie. There are very marked differences between Clinton and Trump, and it is crucial to this election that voters have as unmuddied a view of those differences as possible, to make considered choices.

So it's important that voters know how often each tell lies, how egregious those lies are, and have some context about the implications of lying in this or that particular sector. Pretending that such distinctions aren't important is a great way to attempt to raise the credibility of the more serious liar.

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 10:00 AM
Name me a politician who never told a lie... and then tell me which ones lied the most.

Did I claim that there are politicians who never told a lie? Furthermore I do not have access to all utterings of all politicians.
A 'carp' request and you know it.

As I said "I would leave it as the important and very sad thing is that they are BOTH liars and furthermore regretfully are the choice the American public have to make, which will have far reaching consequences (not just for the USA) whomsoever becomes President.'

S.V. Airlie
05-31-2016, 10:01 AM
Regardless, I would not like a president who lies 76% of the time.

Personally, I haven't heard his say anything truthful but, apparently, he must have!

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 10:02 AM
That strongly implies equivalence, and such an implication is itself a lie. There are very marked differences between Clinton and Trump, and it is crucial to this election that voters have as unmuddied a view of those differences as possible, to make considered choices.

So it's important that voters know how often each tell lies, how egregious those lies are, and have some context about the implications of lying in this or that particular sector. Pretending that such distinctions aren't important is a great way to attempt to raise the credibility of the more serious liar.


Yes there are " very marked differences between Clinton and Trump".

Each have their own positives and negatives (you get to decide, you can vote, not me).

As I said "I would leave it as the important and very sad thing is that they are BOTH liars and furthermore regretfully are the choice the American public have to make, which will have far reaching consequences (not just for the USA) whomsoever becomes President.'

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 10:05 AM
Got one! "I am not a crook1"

Oh look here is another

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky."
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/press-past/2013/01/25/bill-clinton-15-years-ago-i-did-not-have-sexual-relations-with-that-woman

Norman Bernstein
05-31-2016, 10:05 AM
As I said "I would leave it as the important and very sad thing is that they are BOTH liars and furthermore regretfully are the choice the American public have to make, which will have far reaching consequences (not just for the USA) whomsoever becomes President.'

That's the third time you've repeated the line, but it means absolutely NOTHING. American citizens have to vote for one of these people, so those differences matter... they're ALL that matters. Nihilism contributes nothing to the debate.

But go ahead, copy and past it again.

CWSmith
05-31-2016, 10:21 AM
Why on earth would you do that? You've already convinced yourself he's a fascist. That he might be a tax cheat would cinch things for you?:rolleyes:

Many people believe that he is not as rich as he claims and he is lying to the American voters about his "tremendous success". As with many other aspects of Trump's candidacy, he is more claim than fact, more style than substance.

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 10:23 AM
That's the third time you've repeated the line, but it means absolutely NOTHING. American citizens have to vote for one of these people, so those differences matter... they're ALL that matters. Nihilism contributes nothing to the debate.

But go ahead, copy and past it again.

So the choice people should make is to be based on who lies less? :confused:

I have pointed out that they have a sad choice.

It is merely my observation and that is all.

Have I rejected all moral principles in my posts?

PS Perhaps you are aware that absolutely nothing discussed and stated on this forum will make any impact whatsoever on the result or even one iota of difference in the whole scheme of things. :ycool:
I post to discuss various topics and comment on them in regard to my view of them, which I would like to think most others do as well, and that is all that matters to those that take part in the discussions.

TomF
05-31-2016, 10:24 AM
Trump's brand depends on him being a "winner." If it turns out that he's not really a "winner," it's gonna affect his marketing success.

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 10:24 AM
Many people believe that he is not as rich as he claims and he is lying to the American voters about his "tremendous success". As with many other aspects of Trump's candidacy, he is more claim than fact, more style than substance.


What about hyperbole?

TomF
05-31-2016, 10:26 AM
What about hyperbole?You mean the lies?

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 10:36 AM
You mean the lies?


No, the exaggeration as do most promoters (incl politicians). |;)

CWSmith
05-31-2016, 10:37 AM
What about hyperbole?

And what else has he got? That's the issue. If even the hyperbole is a lie, then he has nothing.

Rum_Pirate
05-31-2016, 10:40 AM
And what else has he got? That's the issue. If even the hyperbole is a lie, then he has nothing.

It would appear that a significant number of people in the USA will still support him regardless of such exaggeration in his soapboxing.

Yes, I appreciate that sticks in the craw of some on the forum, but that is just the way it is.

S.V. Airlie
05-31-2016, 10:42 AM
It would appear that a significant number of people in the USA will still support him regardless of such exaggeration in his soapboxing.

Yup, no end to ignorance or stupidity!

genglandoh
05-31-2016, 11:09 AM
It is interesting how many have freaked out from this simple question.

I think Hillary should release a list because
1. It would give her a boost in the polls from Dems who were on the fence.
2. It would end speculation of who her picks would be.
Speculation is not a good think when you are in a tight race.
3. Trump could use this issue/speculation against her in the election.

I think she will release her before the election.

S.V. Airlie
05-31-2016, 11:27 AM
All the wrong reasons geng! I doubt whether Trump will rely on his current list as he switched his mind so much but, I hope he does just to show the world what kind of SC he thinks it should be. He wants to drive this country back to the '50's, racism and bigotry, putting women in their place, dictating how women should be treated, low minimum wage, Trump plans this for country;bring back coal mining, increase gas production, destroy the environment for a nickel. I don't want to go back to the 50's been there already!

CWSmith
05-31-2016, 11:28 AM
It is interesting how many have freaked out from this simple question.

I think Hillary should release a list because
1. It would give her a boost in the polls from Dems who were on the fence.
2. It would end speculation of who her picks would be.
Speculation is not a good think when you are in a tight race.
3. Trump could use this issue/speculation against her in the election.

I think she will release her before the election.

1. It just gives Trump more nonsense to throw at her.
2. Speculation is all that fuels Trump's campaign. There is no content.
3. Trump will make it up if he does not have it.

Best of all, she does not need to do what Trump does or what Trump wants.

CWSmith
05-31-2016, 11:29 AM
It would appear that a significant number of people in the USA will still support him regardless of such exaggeration in his soapboxing.

Yes, I appreciate that sticks in the craw of some on the forum, but that is just the way it is.

Sad, isn't it? His campaign is a condemnation of the American education system.

S.V. Airlie
05-31-2016, 11:36 AM
1. Angry white people: This one is obvious. While not all of his supporters are white – most are. I’ve dealt with many Trump supporters over the last few months and they are probably some of the most hostile and vile people I’ve encountered. These are people who feel good when those they oppose are miserable, in pain or suffering. They’re also typically the people who claim they’re not racist – but most definitely would prefer to live in a “whites-only” country. 2. Uneducated people: If there’s one demographic with which Trump excels, it’s the least educated among us. While I’m not saying an education is the only standard by which intelligence is measured, it is telling that a good chunk of Trump supporters are those with a high school diploma or less. So it shouldn’t be at all surprising that one of his weakest demographics is people with a bachelor’s degree or higher. 3. Racists and bigots: These are the angry white people from #1 who don’t hide the fact that they openly loathe people who don’t look like them. These are the folks who see groups of people like Muslims, African Americans, Mexicans, immigrants and basically anyone who isn’t a straight, white Christian like second-class human beings who don’t deserve respect. These are typically the people who blame everything that’s wrong with this country on someone of color. 4. Paranoid people who think America is no longer “America”: These are the people who typically say things like “we’re losing this country” or believe in Trump’s rhetoric about the United States no longer being great. These folks are not new to society. Pretty much every generation has that section of the population who always believes that the “country is changing for the worse.” You can research back decades and this is typically the battle cry of those who are always on the wrong side of history. 5. Fools who believe anything as long as it’s what they want to hear: Let’s be honest, this group is not exclusive to just Trump – or Republicans, for that matter. These types of people are found within any group of supporters. That being said, you have to be willfully ignorant to believe the nonsense Trump sells. I have never seen an instance of a candidate who literally just makes stuff up on the fly that his supporters never question. In fact, even after his massive 9/11 lie about seeing “thousands and thousands” of Muslims cheering in the streets of New Jersey, you began to see people claiming they saw the same thing – even though it literally never happened. Hell, this is the same guy who got thousands of his supporters to fall for a tweet he sent out saying former Republican Senator Tom Coburn called Ted Cruz “one of the most dishonest people in DC” – when it was really me who said that about Cruz, not Tom Coburn. You seriously can’t make this **** up. Many of his supporters are so devoid of reality, and so incredibly enamored with everything he says, that the only “truth” to them is what comes out of his mouth (or gets posted onto his twitter – often these are one in the same). When he says ridiculous things like unemployment is really at 42 percent (a statement that’s not based on any reality known to sane people) – they believe it. Why? Because he said it and that’s what they want to hear. While there are obviously more (and many of his supporters fall into more than one of these categories), these are the main groups I encounter. I gave up trying to debate them months ago. It just wasn’t worth wasting my time. You can’t convince people that something is factual or real when they simply don’t believe in facts or reality.

Read more at: http://www.forwardprogressives.com/here-are-the-5-main-types-of-donald-trump-supporters/