I'm in the wrong business

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  • Norman Bernstein
    Liberaltarian
    • Nov 2004
    • 25217

    I'm in the wrong business

    You Republicans might want to ask your congressmen and senators why they are defending the carried interest loophole:

    NEW YORK — Wall Street’s elite club of hedge fund managers got a bit richer last year, according to an annual ranking published this week. The top two hedge fund managers made $1.7 billion each in 2015, and the top 25 averaged 10 percent more than the previous year.

    The rankings, issued by Institutional Investor’s Alpha magazine, offers a rare peek inside the world of hedge fund managers, who can make massive bets on stocks or bonds and walk away with billions in profits. The top five hedge fund managers made more than $1 billion each last year. The top 25 hedge fund managers made a combined $12.94 billion, according to Alpha. Among the top 25 hedge fund managers, the average pay was $517.6 million. Only one woman ranked among the 50 highest-paid executives.

    That puts the leaders of the hedge fund industry, a secretive and lightly regulated group, well ahead of banking executives, who have been put under greater scrutiny since the 2008 financial crisis. Jamie Dimon, chief executive of the largest bank in the country, JPMorgan Chase, made a relatively measly $25 million last year by comparison. Another frequent target of Wall Street critics, Lloyd Blankfein, the chief executive of Goldman Sachs, made $23 million in 2015.

    Meanwhile, the hedge fund industry has doubled in size over the past decade, and executives are bringing in high pay despite weathering a tough year in the financial markets. Dan Loeb, the head of Third Point, a large and well-known hedge fund, said in a letter to investors last month that the industry is in the “first innings of a washout.” Five hedge fund managers made enough to rank among the industry’s highest paid despite losing money in at least one of their funds in 2015, according to Alpha.

    The industry is a frequent target of critics who say the world’s wealthiest financiers are benefiting from a broken U.S. tax code. Hedge fund managers’ profits are treated as long-term capital gains, which means they’re taxed at no more than 15 percent. Critics say those earnings should be taxed as ordinary income, or as much as 39.6 percent. Even Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has called for an end to the discrepancy, saying “hedge fund guys are getting away with murder.”
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






  • Gerarddm
    #RESIST
    • Feb 2010
    • 32468

    #2
    Re: I'm in the wrong business

    Bring out the tumbrils.
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

    Comment

    • BrianW
      not your average member
      • Nov 2002
      • 28191

      #3
      Re: I'm in the wrong business

      Not a topic brought up by Hillary, at her recent Wall Street speeches?

      Wait... no, I remember now. She talked about the glass ceiling for women. We had a thread on the topic.

      Guess she has priorities like any one else.
      “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”― Mark Twain,

      Comment

      • Norman Bernstein
        Liberaltarian
        • Nov 2004
        • 25217

        #4
        Re: I'm in the wrong business

        Originally posted by BrianW
        Not a topic brought up by Hillary, at her recent Wall Street speeches?

        Wait... no, I remember now. She talked about the glass ceiling for women. We had a thread on the topic.

        Guess she has priorities like any one else.
        Interesting conundrum: Hillary gets pilloried for speaking to Wall Street.... but her money is barely a fraction of what Trump claims.

        Before you applaud Trump for advocating closing the carried interest loophole, consider this: the carried interest loophole costs the taxpayers around $44 BILLION over the next ten years.....

        ....but Trump is advocating ending the estate tax... which will cost the taxpayers $1 TRILLION over the next ten years (and will insure that his kids, who didn't do a damn thing to earn the money, pay NOTHING in taxes on it).

        At least, he's acting like a Republican.... since much of the national debt is Republican debt.
        "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






        Comment

        • delecta
          Banned
          • Sep 2007
          • 3591

          #5
          Re: I'm in the wrong business

          The major part of BO's rebuilding was to get wall street where he and they believe they should be and now you whine. Pretty much sums up how trickle down economics don't work, guess you forgot to tell the current administration.

          Oh and one more thing, there is no such thing as a "loophole". I would say better terms would be poorly written laws and tax codes but you keep calling it a loophole if it some how makes you feel better, seems like it puts the blame on the smart people and not the dumb ones where it belong. Don't you just hate when our elected officials don't cover all basis and to think they actually had the chance and wasted it on the ACA which in it's current form will be gone before BO gets his library built.
          Last edited by delecta; 05-12-2016, 01:53 PM.

          Comment

          • BrianW
            not your average member
            • Nov 2002
            • 28191

            #6
            Re: I'm in the wrong business

            It's a 'loophole' if you don't like something.

            Now if it's say… Trump getting ramrodded by the Republican Party during the convention, then it more of a 'thems the rules' sort of deal.

            “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”― Mark Twain,

            Comment

            • ccmanuals
              Son of a Guineaman
              • Dec 2001
              • 13318

              #7
              Re: I'm in the wrong business

              loop·hole
              ˈlo͞opˌ(h)ōl/Submit
              noun
              1.an ambiguity or inadequacy in the law or a set of rules.
              "they exploited tax loopholes"
              synonyms: means of evasion, means of avoidance
              Tom

              "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

              Comment

              • Norman Bernstein
                Liberaltarian
                • Nov 2004
                • 25217

                #8
                Re: I'm in the wrong business

                Originally posted by BrianW
                It's a 'loophole' if you don't like something.
                Hmmmm.... and it's not, if you do?

                Tell me... do you actually think that hedge fund managers should be able to pay 15% on their earned income, as if it were NOT earned income, but dividends... and when the dividends actually come from someone else's investments?

                Go ahead... spin it.
                "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






                Comment

                • TomF
                  Recalcitrant Heretic
                  • Jun 2003
                  • 50978

                  #9
                  Re: I'm in the wrong business

                  Originally posted by delecta
                  Oh and one more thing, there is no such thing as a "loophole". I would say better terms would be poorly written laws and tax codes but ...
                  While there are unintended errors every now and then, it's a mistake to presume that the people who actually write legislation don't put in exactly what they intend to. A neighbour of mine has been a lead legislative drafter for the Finance department here in my little part of the world for the past 15 years or so, and Tim's no bozo. If there's an exemption, a caveat, a neat little fillip to give a benefit somewhere for doing something ... it's intended. When one closes, that's intended too. Such things are not issues of bureaucratic incompetence, but of the well-informed choices of the governments which sponsored the bills.

                  A professor of mine in undergrad days had held a similar role with the Federal government before leaving in disgust. He told the same story that my friend Tim does.
                  If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

                  Comment

                  • Rum_Pirate
                    Banned
                    • Apr 2007
                    • 22881

                    #10
                    Re: I'm in the wrong business

                    Originally posted by Norman Bernstein
                    ...but Trump is advocating ending the estate tax... (and will insure that his kids, who didn't do a damn thing to earn the money, pay NOTHING in taxes on it).
                    So what if the children do anything to earn it?
                    Their father paid tax on it, right?
                    So now money in a family should be double taxed?

                    Comment

                    • Norman Bernstein
                      Liberaltarian
                      • Nov 2004
                      • 25217

                      #11
                      Re: I'm in the wrong business

                      Originally posted by Rum_Pirate
                      So what if the children do anything to earn it?
                      Their father paid tax on it, right?
                      No, he didn't.

                      Originally posted by Rum_Pirate
                      So now money in a family should be double taxed?
                      An absolutely classic Republican/conservative LIE.

                      Far from being 'double taxed', most estates aren't even single-taxed, because the estates have grown through unrealized capital gains. Eliminating the inheritance tax means that those gains will NEVER be taxed....

                      ...yet somehow, the right wing invents this 'double taxation' myth.

                      Gee, I wish *I* could be permitted to avoid all taxation on my capital gains.... but because I'm not a billionaire, I don't get that privilege.
                      "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."






                      Comment

                      • Rum_Pirate
                        Banned
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 22881

                        #12
                        Re: I'm in the wrong business

                        Originally posted by Norman Bernstein
                        No, he didn't.



                        An absolutely classic Republican/conservative LIE.

                        Far from being 'double taxed', most estates aren't even single-taxed, because the estates have grown through unrealized capital gains. Eliminating the inheritance tax means that those gains will NEVER be taxed....

                        ...yet somehow, the right wing invents this 'double taxation' myth.

                        Gee, I wish *I* could be permitted to avoid all taxation on my capital gains.... but because I'm not a billionaire, I don't get that privilege.

                        Mr Trump has a 100% tax exemption with the IRS?

                        Why are you accusing of being 'right wing'.

                        IF and when they sell anything they would become liable for tax on it.

                        So when somebody works and pays income tax, then they use some of that tax taxed income on their children (whether by buying food, clothing or shelter ), the children should be taxed on that money?

                        Comment

                        • TomF
                          Recalcitrant Heretic
                          • Jun 2003
                          • 50978

                          #13
                          Re: I'm in the wrong business

                          Originally posted by Rum_Pirate
                          So what if the children do anything to earn it?
                          Their father paid tax on it, right?
                          So now money in a family should be double taxed?
                          I know a family in Victoria BC where the grandfather bought a bungalow on Beach Drive for $22k back in the early 1960s. When he passed it on to his son in the late 1980s the same bungalow was worth about 20X that. If it were passed to the granddaughter today, it would be worth at least 50X the original selling price.

                          If the granddaughter inherits and sells the little bungalow for $1.2M, you figure whatever tax was paid by her grandfather on his $22K is fair? Even inflated for constant dollars?
                          If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

                          Comment

                          • Rum_Pirate
                            Banned
                            • Apr 2007
                            • 22881

                            #14
                            Re: I'm in the wrong business

                            Originally posted by Rum_Pirate
                            Mr Trump has a 100% tax exemption with the IRS?

                            Why are you accusing of being 'right wing'.

                            IF and when they sell anything they would become liable for tax on it.

                            So when somebody works and pays income tax, then they use some of that tax taxed income on their children (whether by buying food, clothing or shelter ), the children should be taxed on that money?

                            Oh BTW why should everything have the life taxed out of it to the maximum?

                            Comment

                            • TomF
                              Recalcitrant Heretic
                              • Jun 2003
                              • 50978

                              #15
                              Re: I'm in the wrong business

                              Originally posted by Rum_Pirate
                              Oh BTW why should everything have the life taxed out of it to the maximum?
                              To fund things like this?
                              If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

                              Comment

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