home depot lauan questions

[bassman]

Anyone here know what the core in Lauan plywood from Home Depot is made of?

Anyone ever tried this material for a "quick and dirty" boat building material?
My plan is to fiberglass/epoxy over it.

[Bruce Hooke]

I believe my Uncle used basically the same stuff ('door skins' were what he bought, which I think is the same stuff) for quick-and-dirty children's boatbuilding projects. He would have classes where each kid would build a small simply kayak that they could paddle around the local pond. I know he did NOT use epoxy and suchlike for these projects -- it's too messy and hazardous to introduce into a class full of youngsters. I think they sealed joints with cheap caulk/adhesive-in-a-tube and then covered everything with latex paint. For boats that were not intended to last for that long it worked just fine.

I do wonder if covering lauan with fiberglass/epoxy isn't a waste of good epoxy -- epoxy is, after all, pretty expensive stuff and lauan is really cheap. If you really want a quick-and-dirty boat just chuck some latex paint on the plywood and get on the water (but don't go farther from shore than you would be willing to swim :D ). On the other hand, if you want a boat that will last for a while I wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper to use better plywood and leave off the epoxy coating.

By the way, since I didn't really answer your question I will at least ask, why does it matter what the core is made of?

[ 08-04-2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Hooke ]

[Mike Vogdes]

Its a waste of money to cheap out on plywood then cover it with epoxy and glass. How much are you gonna save???

[bassman]

Hi Bruce,

The lauan sheets were given to me and I was just real curious what those cores are made of. The only thing that I could find out was that they were "softwood" which could include a whole lot of different types of wood.

[jack grebe]

can't tell ya but...... I'v had a piece of it out in the weather unprotected from sun and rain for about a year with no sigh of delamination

[bob goeckel]

i've built 3 kayaks with lauan and polyester, with lauan varnished decks. very cheep approx.$125.00 and 2 of them are 5years old and going strong. not left out in the weather and sealed very well. the last one has an okoume deck that is much prettier. paddle built of closetpole and lauan. these are not whitewater kayaks.

[Bruce Hooke]

Originally posted by bassman:
Hi Bruce,

The lauan sheets were given to me and I was just real curious what those cores are made of. The only thing that I could find out was that they were "softwood" which could include a whole lot of different types of wood.Well, I certainly can't claim to know the answer to your question, but I would not be surprised if it was basically whatever happened to be cheap and available in the country where the plywood was made, which I am guessing was probably not the US.

I think it's safe to assume that whatever it is is NOT rot resistant -- but based on Jack and Bob's experience it sounds like if you dry sail the boat, the approach you have in mind might well be reasonable. If you are talking about something much bigger than a kayak I would be careful because lauan plywood may well be weaker than the plywood for which the boat was designed.

[hoz]

If you are going to glass and epoxy the entire boat, then it isn't a luan boat, its a fiberglass boat with a luan core and is as strong as the glass construction. Just keep it maintained and don't let water penetrate the sheath.

BTW, some boatbuilders advocate boiling a sample piece of the luan for 2-3 hours to see if there is any delamination. If so, don't use it!

[bassman]

Hi folks,

I did the boil test when I got home from work and this wood failed miserably. Within only 10 minutes the veneer would fall right off the core and the plywood could be shredded like paper.

Just so people will know what not to buy. The panels are labeled:

"Taraca Pacific"
"CFSC Certified Underlayments 5.2 mm Moisture resistant"
"SCS Certified
SCS# SCS COC 00433"

The label goes on to say that 71% of the material in the panel comes from managed forests.

BEWARE of this stuff for boatbuilding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Buddy Sharpton]

I have purchased from Home Depot two different "layups" both called lauan underlayment. Both 8 mm panels were lauan on all plys, waterproof glue, and about $10 a shhet. One lot was roughly three equal thicknesses of plys, the other precious thin outer skins on a fat core. We used these for interior trim panels in cabintry, covered on the outside with teak or ash veneers. Worked great, but the equal thickness ply stuff would be far better for bending. All my bits were flat, no bends.

[imported_Conrad]

It varies a lot- some is a great buy, some is trash- depends on what their buyer found that week. Always do the boil test. The cores vary too, but are usually lower quality Luan. For what its worth, Okumee, one of the most popular marine ply woods has very little rot resistance, and was considered a "trash" wood 20 years ago- my how things change! I have about 15 sheets of 3mm door skins I got a couple of years ago- its beautiful, comparable to meranti in color/weight and was $9.95 a sheet! Some of the underlayment I've seen lately has looked pretty good! You'll do better to avoid Home Depot and try a real lumber yard- the politically correct have forced the chains to drop 3rd world woods from non sustainable forests, etc.

[ 08-04-2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Conrad S. ]

[Jim Goodine]

I agree with Bob G. We've built a lot of simple kid's boats with cheap ply, polyester, 2X4's, and closet pole. It gets a lot of people out on the water cheap and quick. Most of these boats are shoved under camps or suspended in garages when not in use but some are just turned over on the beach. I only had one of them delaminate in a big way. I wouldn't waste my time on a good project by using cheap material but for what you want, go for it and spend most of your time putting on colorful porch paint. Hey Bob, there are always marshmallows waiting, right???

[JimConlin]

I consider that a boat of cheap lauan is safe only if used in waters where, when the boat falls apart, you can walk to shore. If the builder can be absolutely sure that his product will always be used in those conditions, then it's OK. Absent that assurance, I think it's irresponsible.

[bob goeckel]

BTW, some boatbuilders advocate boiling a sample piece of the luan for 2-3 hours i've found that grilling the lauan with a marinade makes it oh so much more flavorful and tender. and it goes better with the marshmallows! :D

[bob goeckel]

I consider that a boat of cheap lauan is safe only if used in waters where, when the boat falls apart, you can walk to shore. If the builder can be absolutely sure that his product will always be used in those conditions, then it's OK. Absent that assurance, I think it's irresponsible. any boat can sink,in any conditions, does that make it irresposible to build boats? i think it's irresponsible user's that are usually at fault in boating accidents. if i build a boat for my own use i have no responsibility to anyone but myself.

[Maguire]

Originally posted by JimConlin:
I consider that a boat of cheap lauan is safe only if used in waters where, when the boat falls apart, you can walk to shore. If the builder can be absolutely sure that his product will always be used in those conditions, then it's OK. Absent that assurance, I think it's irresponsible.C'mon . . . even a boat built out of cheap lauan is not going to go to pieces all at once, just because it gets wet.

Cross an ocean? No, of course not. Paddle around the pond? Of course.

[Mike Vogdes]

Cheap Luan underlayment certainly has its place in boat building, I use it all the time for paterns, mock-ups and shoring, stuff like that.

Its works out well because you get a lot of mileage out of a sheet befor it winds up in the dumpster, sometimes I don't even use a circular saw to cut it, you can score it and snap it much like cutting drywall if your carefull, I have even used it for drawer bottoms, made a battery box stitch and googe fashion, compartment dividers that will never see water, things like that, theres lots of uses.

But I would never use it instead of marine plywood for a boat hull, you are wasting your money. If you spent good money on a set of plans, then deciede to cut corners on your material to save a few bucks, shame on you..
You don't do anybody any favors doing that. I don't know if there is a legal liability for deveiating from a designers specs, but why take the chance? You go thru all that trouble to build a boat with sub standard material, only to have it fall apart prematurely.

[bob goeckel]

many of us don't consider building a boat "all that trouble" we enjoy it. quick and dirty or refined traditional, it's supposed to be fun. as i stated 2 of the kayaks are 5 years old without any sign of deterioration. for $125.00 that to me is a good deal. they look nice from 50' away and they work for what they were intended. flat water, protected storage. my daughter and son-in-law love e'm. for those others with a deep pocket(that's what it takes)better material is fine but some like the idea of getting on the water cheaply.

[Mike Vogdes]

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your daughter and your son inlaw....

[bob goeckel]

mike, with me around they need all the fingercrossing they can get. :eek:

[AndyFarquhar]

See: http://members.fortunecity.com/duckworks/1999/0301/ for Jim Michalak's experience with lauan and (cover the young ones' eyes) polyester resin.

I saw a crabber going out in a plywood, center console, outboard garvey in Bivalve, New Jersey recently. It looked like an old, plank-on-frame garvey but was made by the fisherman of ac ply on fir frames. The chines were covered in tape and the bottom was sheathed in glass - both no doudt set in polyester resin (when I mentioned epoxy the guy looked at me funny). The waterman puts his boat in the water in March and hauls out in November - he tongs oysters some. He didn't seem real concerned in heading out into Delaware Bay in a boat not made of occumme and epoxy.

Regards

Andy

[imported_Conrad]

Ah, he's probably confused, thinks his boat is a tool, not some high expression of the meaning of his life as expressed through art and craftsmanship. Send him here, we'll set him straight- and if he's good we'll let him in on the one and only right way to do things... :D

[Russell Sova]

I have half a mind to join a club and hit him over the head with it......G. Marx

[bob goeckel]

not sure whoo said: "there's the right way, the wrong way and then there's my way."

[SailBoatDude]

I've used the stuff for years and there is good stuff and bad. Mostly bad, but you can find good stuff if you look.

I make the rounds at the "box" stores a couple times a month. I know who they get there stock from, where they get their stock from and where it's made for the most part. I help them stock the stuff on lots of occasions as I sift through the stacks for good looking lumber. I hit them on the day they get their shipments and have first pick. I even have a lady at Lowe's call when something comes in early, looks extra nice or generally may be something I'd be interested in.

I did 20 grand in business with them last year, you bet they call. Then there are the real lumber stores. I have an account, they think I'm an pain in the ass, but happily let me sort through a few piles for 50' of stock. I pick their brains for suppliers and trends and they respect my knowledge of the limited types of stock I get.

Poly has no place on a boat that will see weather, we all know this. Those folks who spit on their boats and let them dry in the barn until they're used again, could have gotten by with a quality paint and epoxies strips on the chines and keel for abrasion resistance. There are too many 70's era pocket yachts in countless marinas and backyards across this country with there skins of poly hanging limply off there sides calling the jury in on this one.

[T Eagle]

Russell,

Would you make that club out of Lauan ply though? ;)

[Tomcat]

I haven't come across any 3-4mm luan in my area the last two years that is waterproof. You used to be able to get it for about 5 dollars a sheet, and it couldn't be boilled appart. Kurt Hughes got it certified for charter boats.

I have also had problems with the stuff that did boil test, turned out that the stewing that can occur in "sealed" areas easily breaks down the epoxy. and the luan bonds. It would take a huge amount of abuse to get things to the point where they fall apart.

Anytime you are glassing and epoxying, you are well past quick and dirty building, and using materials that will keep pace with the composites is worth it to me. I'm using quickish and dirty strip plank. Strip plank is cheaper than plywood, and one can make any shape one wants in it.

[Tim B]

I built a luan small sailboat about 2 years ago. A the time my choice of material was based on:
1. Cost
2. Skill - first attempt at building from scratch with poor plans
3. durability - I was looking for a cheap quick wood boat I could sail for 2 years while I was working on my 'real' wood boat. Ya know you have the wb's really bad when you won't even sail a plastic boat while your working on your wood one!

Anyway, as soon as the boat was finished I knew I made a mistake. I enjoyed building it so much that I wanted it to last alot longer than 2 years. It is 2 years later now. The boat was built with 2 sheets of luan. One sheet is holding up fine. The other one has many delaminations and is falling apart quickly. Every time I've used it this summer I've had to spend time addressing new failures in the luan. It will probably go to the marshmellow pit this fall.

By the way the 2 panels of luan were bought at the same time, same lot. I did a boil test on a piece from one of them and passed. The luan was covered with 1 coat of epoxy - bushed on, no cloth and exterior house paint. The paint is holding up well. The boat is stored outdoors under a deck.

tim

[hoz]

I just found some luan at my Lowes that has FIVE laminations and hardly any voids. Only problem it is buried on the bottom of the stack. I'm going up tomorrow to try and re stack some to get down to the what I hope is GOOD STUFF.