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Norman Bernstein
03-03-2016, 09:43 AM
The backlash escalates... now, even the right wing foreign policy experts are revulsed! Catch the last paragraph...


WASHINGTON -- Sixty Republican national security heavyweights vow in an open letter (http://warontherocks.com/2016/03/open-letter-on-donald-trump-from-gop-national-security-leaders/) released late Wednesday to work “energetically” to prevent GOP front-runner Donald Trump from winning the party's nomination.The experts, who represent vastly divergent GOP ideologies, describe Trump's vision of American influence as “wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle.” They warned that a Trump presidency would “make America less safe” and “diminish our standing in the world.”

The letter was organized by Eliot Cohen, a former State Department official, and Bryan McGrath, a former Mitt Romney adviser. It was released the day after Trump won seven states on Super Tuesday, stoking his momentum and giving fresh urgency to a NeverTrump movement (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gop-donald-trump_us_56d71f25e4b03260bf78dbf2) of Republican officials working against him.

In just 454 words, the letter signatories eviscerated Trump for his “expansive use of torture,” his “hateful, anti-Muslim rhetoric,” and his expressed admiration for Russian President Vladimir Putin. They slammed his proposal to require Mexico to build a wall on its border with the U.S. and accused him of behaving more like a “racketeer” than a dependable ally for suggesting that Japan pay for military protection. They accused Trump of holding an amorphous worldview -- switching from isolationism to interventionism, and refusing to acknowledge his past support for the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and the 2011 intervention in Libya.

“We accept that views evolve over time, but this is simply misrepresentation,” they wrote in the letter, signed by several people who backed the Iraq war and who favored supporting the opposition fighters in Libya.

Some on Twitter mocked the signatories for taking a stand only after Trump’s Super Tuesday victories. But some signers have long been raising alarm over Trump’s candidacy.

Max Boot, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and an adviser to rival GOP candidate Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), has been bashing Trump on Twitter long before the #NeverTrump movement made it safe to do so. Former State Department official Robert Kagan wrote a scathing article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-the-gops-frankenstein-monster-now-hes-strong-enough-to-destroy-the-party/2016/02/25/3e443f28-dbc1-11e5-925f-1d10062cc82d_story.html) last week blaming the Republican Party for quietly embracing the same bigoted sentiments that Trump has espoused. Philip D. Zelikow, an attorney who headed the commission charged with uncovering what went wrong in the leadup to the Sept. 11 attacks, shut down (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/12/06/trumps-dubious-claim-that-the-911-hijackers-wives-knew-exactly-what-was-going-to-happen/)Trump’s claim in December that the hijackers sent their wives to Saudi Arabia before the attacks.

The letter represented a rare consensus from a disparate group of people. For example, former Pentagon adviser Matthew Kroenig is an outspoken critic of the Iran nuclear deal and has called for a military attack (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/middle-east/2012-01-01/time-attack-iran) on Iran again (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/middle-east/2014-01-07/still-time-attack-iran) and again (http://www.amazon.com/Time-Attack-Looming-Iranian-Nuclear/dp/1137279532). But Tufts University’s Daniel Drezner has long challenged (http://www.hughhewitt.com/tufts-professor-daniel-drezner-with-the-realists-view-of-iran-and-iraq/) the long-term strategic wisdom of a military strike on Iran and has acknowledged (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/01/05/the-diminished-legacy-of-the-iran-deal/) the nonproliferation benefits of the nuclear deal, while expressing skepticism about its regional implications.

The 60 signers pledged not to support the Republican ticket in the November elections if Trump ends up as the nominee, effectively killing any chance of a high-level Trump administration job for any of them. McGrath told (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/03/02/in-new-letter-republican-foriegn-policy-experts-declare-war-on-trump/?tid=sm_tw) The Washington Post this doesn’t mean the signers would defect from the GOP and vote for the Democratic nominee, but some of his colleagues (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/trump-clinton-neoconservatives-220151) admitted to Politico they felt they had no other choice.

Tom Montgomery
03-03-2016, 09:47 AM
The open letter:



We the undersigned, members of the Republican national security community, represent a broad spectrum of opinion on America’s role in the world and what is necessary to keep us safe and prosperous. We have disagreed with one another on many issues, including the Iraq war and intervention in Syria. But we are united in our opposition to a Donald Trump presidency. Recognizing as we do, the conditions in American politics that have contributed to his popularity, we nonetheless are obligated to state our core objections clearly:

His vision of American influence and power in the world is wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle. He swings from isolationism to military adventurism within the space of one sentence.

His advocacy for aggressively waging trade wars is a recipe for economic disaster in a globally connected world.

His embrace of the expansive use of torture is inexcusable.

His hateful, anti-Muslim rhetoric undercuts the seriousness of combatting Islamic radicalism by alienating partners in the Islamic world making significant contributions to the effort. Furthermore, it endangers the safety and Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of American Muslims.

Controlling our border and preventing illegal immigration is a serious issue, but his insistence that Mexico will fund a wall on the southern border inflames unhelpful passions, and rests on an utter misreading of, and contempt for, our southern neighbor.

Similarly, his insistence that close allies such as Japan must pay vast sums for protection is the sentiment of a racketeer, not the leader of the alliances that have served us so well since World War II.

His admiration for foreign dictators such as Vladimir Putin is unacceptable for the leader of the world’s greatest democracy.

He is fundamentally dishonest. Evidence of this includes his attempts to deny positions he has unquestionably taken in the past, including on the 2003 Iraq war and the 2011 Libyan conflict. We accept that views evolve over time, but this is simply misrepresentation.

His equation of business acumen with foreign policy experience is false. Not all lethal conflicts can be resolved as a real estate deal might, and there is no recourse to bankruptcy court in international affairs.

Mr. Trump’s own statements lead us to conclude that as president, he would use the authority of his office to act in ways that make America less safe, and which would diminish our standing in the world. Furthermore, his expansive view of how presidential power should be wielded against his detractors poses a distinct threat to civil liberty in the United States. Therefore, as committed and loyal Republicans, we are unable to support a Party ticket with Mr. Trump at its head. We commit ourselves to working energetically to prevent the election of someone so utterly unfitted to the office.


David Adesnik
Michael Auslin
Robert D. Blackwill
Daniel A. Blumenthal
Max Boot
Michael Chertoff
Patrick Chovanec
Eliot A. Cohen
Carrie Cordero
Michael Coulter
Patrick M. Cronin
Seth Cropsey
Tom Donnelly
Daniel Drezner
Colin Dueck
Eric Edelman
Joseph Esposito
Richard A. Falkenrath
Peter D. Feaver
Niall Ferguson
Aaron Friedberg
Jeffrey Gedmin
Reuel Marc Gerecht
Christopher J. Griffin
Mary R. Habeck
Paul Haenle
Rebeccah Heinrichs
William C. Inboden
Jamil N. Jaffer
Robert G. Joseph
Kate Kidder
Robert Kagan
David Kramer
Matthew Kroenig
Frank Lavin
Philip I. Levy
Philip Lohaus
Mary Beth Long

Peter Mansoor
Matthew McCabe
Bryan McGrath
Paul D. Miller
Charles Morrison
Lester Munson
Andrew S. Natsios
Michael Noonan
John Noonan
Roger F. Noriega
Robert T. Osterhaler
Everett Pyatt
Martha T. Rainville
Stephen Rodriguez
Michael Rubin
Daniel F. Runde
Benjamin Runkle
Richard L. Russell
Kori Schake
Randy Scheunemann
Gary J. Schmitt
Kalev I. Sepp
Vance Serchuk
David R. Shedd
Kristen Silverberg
Michael Singh
Ray Takeyh
William H. Tobey
Frances F. Townsend
Jan Van Tol
Daniel Vajdich
Albert Wolf
Julie Wood
Dov S. Zakheim
Roger Zakheim
Philip Zelikow
Robert B. Zoellick

TomF
03-03-2016, 10:34 AM
Bravo.

But before we bask too much in the glow of this reasoned, rational, intelligent yet conservative consensus ... where the f#ck are the GOP Primary candidates who these people ought to be backstopping?

Those words were written by actual grownups. They're describing grownup points of view. A lot of us would vote for someone who advocated policies along those lines.

I'm delighted that the GOP is roiling and awakening. That actual, thoughtful conservatives are finally poking their heads up above their desks, and saying something. But WTF were they doing since Obama took office, when all principled Conservative discourse had to fall under the wheels of obstructionism and tantruming? When their evaporation from public life allowed the Trump, Cruz and etc. gang of iconoclasts to ascend?

Trump is NOT Hitler, but one parallel worth considering is that the establishment in Hitler's time felt that they could use him. Use him to take office, and then keep him as a puppet. Hitler turned that dynamic 180 degrees, using the establishment's machine to his own autonomous advantage. Trump's doing the same thing here, with a signal difference being that at this late stage of the game, the GOP is recognizing it. Though they also need to recognize that their self-serving catering to the knuckle-draggers since 2008 and 2010 is what's brought on this storm, and threatening the nation.

On the upside, all this establishment GOP reaction is exactly what I think is necessary if the Republican party is to once again assume their necessary, useful role as a responsible Conservative party.

Durnik
03-03-2016, 10:37 AM
” They warned that a Trump presidency would “make America less safe” and “diminish our standing in the world.”

Pandering, Norman?

They say that because they feel that having, & using, the most powerful military in the world is the _only_ way to ensure "America's Standing & Safety".. You know - pretty much what all 'true' conservatives - including, btw, Hillary - say.

While none of us have any idea what Trump will do (he probably doesn't himself), the conservatives are, as always, frightened at the thought of loss of 'Power Over Others' ™ - © as Trump is most definitely _not_ 'One of They'.

bobby

Gerarddm
03-03-2016, 10:38 AM
There is a certain kind of fire that flares up when you throw water at it, you need to knock it down with foam.

This is letter is water to Drumpf supporters, trust me. It will simply validate him to them. It may help, though, with thinking independents in the general election.

Norman Bernstein
03-03-2016, 10:40 AM
Pandering, Norman?

I didn't post this because I was endorsing their foreign policy views... I most certainly DON'T.

I posted it because it's yet another demonstration of how Republican voters are, in this election, at least, completely ignoring their own conservative ideology, because they've been enraptured by a carnival barker. THAT is the most significant aspect of this entire sorry situation.

People criticize the comparisons and similarities between Trump, and tyrannical dictators of the past... but I think the comparison is truly apt. This is how authoritarians gain power.

John Smith
03-03-2016, 10:44 AM
I think they have no idea how to stop Trump. Maybe they really don't believe racism is as rampant as it is, and Trump is getting support from all the racists, they think don't exist anymore. They are acting just as stupid as he says they are.

The media gave this 'laughing stock" free coverage, wall to wall, while ignoring all the other candidates, and, IMO, created this monster.

David G
03-03-2016, 10:45 AM
Bravo.

But before we bask too much in the glow of this reasoned, rational, intelligent yet conservative consensus ... where the f#ck are the GOP Primary candidates who these people ought to be backstopping?

Those words were written by actual grownups. They're describing grownup points of view. A lot of us would vote for someone who advocated policies along those lines.

I'm delighted that the GOP is roiling and awakening. That actual, thoughtful conservatives are finally poking their heads up above their desks, and saying something. But WTF were they doing since Obama took office, when all principled Conservative discourse had to fall under the wheels of obstructionism and tantruming? When their evaporation from public life allowed the Trump, Cruz and etc. gang of iconoclasts to ascend?

Trump is NOT Hitler, but one parallel worth considering is that the establishment in Hitler's time felt that they could use him. Use him to take office, and then keep him as a puppet. Hitler turned that dynamic 180 degrees, using the establishment's machine to his own autonomous advantage. Trump's doing the same thing here, with a signal difference being that at this late stage of the game, the GOP is recognizing it. Though they also need to recognize that their self-serving catering to the knuckle-draggers since 2008 and 2010 is what's brought on this storm, and threatening the nation.

On the upside, all this establishment GOP reaction is exactly what I think is necessary if the Republican party is to once again assume their necessary, useful role as a responsible Conservative party.

Just so.

Sky Blue
03-03-2016, 10:45 AM
There is a certain kind of fire that flares up when you throw water at it, you need to knock it down with foam.

This is letter is water to Drumpf supporters, trust me. It will simply validate him to them. It may help, though, with thinking independents in the general election.


I agree, and that is exactly how I feel about it. It will benefit Hillary Clinton, no doubt, but if the establishment shafts Mr. Trump and thwarts the will of the Republican primary electorate, I won't be voting for the Republican alternative, nor Republicans generally, probably ever again.

Where were these GOP foreign policy "experts" and their concerns about making America "less safe" and having a "diminished standing" back when they were pushing for an Iraq invasion?

Perhaps if they had marshaled their concerns back then with the energy they expend on Mr. Trump now, America would be safer and with a better international standing.

It is time to sweep all of these people aside. Welcome to the revolution.

Gerarddm
03-03-2016, 10:55 AM
By your last sentence, Bernie will welcome your vote. ;-)

Durnik
03-03-2016, 11:05 AM
Republican voters are, in this election, at least, completely ignoring their own conservative ideology

Not true. Gerard called it. There have always been two (actually, more - but two suffices here) groups of 'conservative voters' - the 'true conservatives', who actually are few in number - & the 'base', who comprise many sub groups - none of whom are actually 'conservative republicans', they simply vote that way - imagining (hoping) their 'pet irrationality/bigotry' will be 'made law' as promised them by those 'true conservatives'. What we see here is 'true conservatives' running in fear now that the many sub groups have 'found their own'.. or at least a man who is directly pandering to them.



I didn't post this because I was endorsing their foreign policy views... I most certainly DON'T.

Yet you support Hillary? Google what she said about Libya.. & what Cheney et al said about Libya..



People criticize the comparisons and similarities between Trump, and tyrannical dictators of the past... but I think the comparison is truly apt. This is how authoritarians gain power.

True enough - but we'd best be remembering that Trump didn't start this mess. As someone in Greg's thread (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?203860-What-s-Driving-Trump-s-Support-The-Rise-of-American-Authoritarianism) said, "they didn't suddenly come out of nowhere". Those 'sane conservatives' have been 'riding this horse' for years - & they just got thrown.




By your last sentence, Bernie will welcome your vote. ;-)

;-)

bobby

Norman Bernstein
03-03-2016, 11:05 AM
I agree, and that is exactly how I feel about it. It will benefit Hillary Clinton, no doubt, but if the establishment shafts Mr. Trump and thwarts the will of the Republican primary electorate, I won't be voting for the Republican alternative, nor Republicans generally, probably ever again..

Actually, the only way Hillary Clinton benefits, is if Trump IS the GOP nominee. I am convinced that he cannot win the general election. Marco Rubio could win.

However, I'm curious: if the rest of the GOP is successful in thwarting Trump, who DOES that leave you with, to vote for? :)

Sky Blue
03-03-2016, 11:07 AM
Actually, the only way Hillary Clinton benefits, is if Trump IS the GOP nominee. I am convinced that he cannot win the general election. Marco Rubio could win.

However, I'm curious: if the rest of the GOP is successful in thwarting Trump, who DOES that leave you with, to vote for? :)

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Norman Bernstein
03-03-2016, 11:08 AM
Yet you support Hillary?

No. I support whatever Democrat is running, against whatever candidate becomes the GOP nominee.

I don't have to like EVERY specific stance that a candidate may have espoused, at one time or another, to vote for them. No single position or statement either qualifies a candidate, or disqualifies them, in my view. I vote 'on balance'... which one is more likely to be a decent president, and which one is less likely to do any harm. ANY of the GOP candidates, IMHO, would be harmful to the best interests of the country.

peb
03-03-2016, 11:11 AM
We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

That makes no sense at all. The same polling organization (CNN/ORC) that on Sunday placed Trump at 49% and all the Trump supporters touted as wonderful has now released its latest general election matchups:

Cruz vs Clinton: Cruz up by 1 point
Rubio vs Clinton: Rubio up by 3 points
Trump vs Clinton: Clinton up by 8 points.

Norman Bernstein
03-03-2016, 11:11 AM
That makes no sense at all. The same polling organization (CNN/ORC) that on Sunday placed Trump at 49% and all the Trump supporters touted as wonderful has now released its latest general election matchups:

Cruz vs Clinton: Cruz up by 1 point
Rubio vs Clinton: Rubio up by 3 points
Trump vs Clinton: Clinton up by 8 points.

Which explains why I'm 'cheering' for Trump :)

LeeG
03-03-2016, 11:28 AM
Ah gee, and the neocons on that list did such a good job securing America's interests. Their advocacy was behind the curtain using deception. Trump is right out their celebrating what is in many Americans ignorant, fearful minds where voting has little utility in their lives, except now.

Hopefully the backlash against him and his followers will bring some good, sure looks dangerous though.

Sky Blue
03-03-2016, 11:35 AM
That makes no sense at all. The same polling organization (CNN/ORC) that on Sunday placed Trump at 49% and all the Trump supporters touted as wonderful has now released its latest general election matchups:

Cruz vs Clinton: Cruz up by 1 point
Rubio vs Clinton: Rubio up by 3 points
Trump vs Clinton: Clinton up by 8 points.

Perhaps like those who support Mr. Sanders and won't be voting for Mrs. Clinton under any circumstances, sometimes one must vote for change that one believes in as a matter of principle. "Winning" for the sake of winning doesn't cut it.

Neither Cruz nor Rubio are acceptable, as they are much too far to the right for my taste.

Jim Mahan
03-03-2016, 11:36 AM
Cruz vs Clinton: Cruz up by 1 point
Rubio vs Clinton: Rubio up by 3 points

This may be from a reasonable poll, but I don't believe it. I may be being naive but I'm expecting whichever Dem to trounce trump or whichever Rep.

Norman Bernstein
03-03-2016, 11:37 AM
This may be from a reasonable poll, but I don't believe it. I may be being naive but I'm expecting whichever Dem to trounce trump or whichever Rep.

Why don't you believe it? A matter of faith?

paulf
03-03-2016, 11:47 AM
No matter what happens, there is an underlying "disease" in this country that is not going to go away with this awakening. There is an underlying anger , ignorance and contempt that will cause great damage to us in the coming years.
Hang on to your seats, the ride gets bumpy from here.

purri
03-03-2016, 11:46 PM
Interesting if Dumpf and Kim Jong Un have a face off. Nukes at 20 paces anyone?

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 12:36 AM
Perhaps like those who support Mr. Sanders and won't be voting for Mrs. Clinton under any circumstances, sometimes one must vote for change that one believes in as a matter of principle. "Winning" for the sake of winning doesn't cut it.

Neither Cruz nor Rubio are acceptable, as they are much too far to the right for my taste.



I suggest you stay home, on election day.

Sky Blue
03-04-2016, 12:44 AM
I suggest you stay home, on election day.

That'll be the day...

Sky Blue
03-04-2016, 12:45 AM
Hopefully the backlash against him and his followers will bring some good

You mean like Hillary forever?!! Good stuff! Puppies and rainbows!

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 01:22 AM
The open letter:


If that crowd doesn't like you, it is best to keep your finger upon your nose.

leikec
03-04-2016, 02:13 AM
Why don't you believe it? A matter of faith?

I keep wondering why YOU seem to believe it...pre-convention matchup polling almost always proves to be laughably wrong.

Jeff C

leikec
03-04-2016, 03:42 AM
This may be from a reasonable poll, but I don't believe it. I may be being naive but I'm expecting whichever Dem to trounce trump or whichever Rep.

You aren't naive.

Either Trump is going to be the nominee or he isn't--and if he isn't the eventual GOP nominee will limp into the general election with the aftermath of this GOP Freak Show Primary Season sucking the life out of him.

The supposed 'new blood' that Trump was bringing to the Party will evaporate like a fart in a gale force wind if Trump isn't the nominee, and then the poor sucker who is nominated is going to be doing a three way tango in an attempt to placate all the pissed off Trump-Etts who feel robbed by the RNC, courting centrist independents (who still matter, by the way...), while at the same time convincing the right wing Tea Party Faithful that Armeggedon is at finally at hand.

It can't be done. Trump has officially turned the GOP electorate into a garbage casserole, and no other nominee will be able to choke it down...or more importantly, keep it down.


If Trump wins the nomination he's going to have to convince at least 70 million of our stupidest Americans to wander into a voting booth and figure out how to operate the controls--and he's spent the last several months pissing off virtually every other demographic in the voting age population.

Convincing 70 million people to vote for you in a general election is hard work. Media attention is great, but voter turnout in a presidential year general election is all about having a strong ground game, and I have serious doubts about the the GOP's organizational ability (and more to the point, the motivation) to harness the boots on the ground required to get the work done.

Again, please see the garbage casserole analogy above--the same games that have worked for Trump in the primary will work against him in the general, and the Tea Party isn't in the mood to play Lets Make a Deal with The Donald any more than they have been with the current administration. The Tea Party doesn't trust Donald, and they shouldn't. The RNC right about now is wishing they'd never heard the name 'Trump' (or Dumph).
Trump has managed to fracture the GOP. Sooner or later it was bound to happen, but Trump has managed to do it in a way that will cause the party machinery to be unable to function just when he needs their support to be truly relevant in the general election.

Donald also has made sure that the Hispanic community will vote...against him...and believe it or not, there are a great many people in the U.S. who seem to be female, and a very large percentage of those people think Donald is a pig.

The GOP is going to lose this election. If the party nominates Rubio they will lose somewhat gracefully and perhaps keep the Senate. If they nominate Cruz the GOP is going to get creamed and they will probably lose the Senate. If the GOP is stupid enough to run Trump as the GOP nominee the result will be a cataclysm for the Republican Party.

Forget about the Hitler comparisons...Donald Trump is a modern day Horace Greeley...the political equivalent to a garbage casserole.

Jeff C

Donn
03-04-2016, 03:51 AM
^

BZZT!!

Too many uses of "garbage casserole!"

Time to refresh the old vocabulary.

How about "refuse repast?"

"Trash tart?"

"Filet of flotsam?"

Daniel Noyes
03-04-2016, 07:16 AM
I didn't post this because I was endorsing their foreign policy views... I most certainly DON'T.

I posted it because it's yet another demonstration of how Republican voters are, in this election, at least, completely ignoring their own conservative ideology, because they've been enraptured by a carnival barker. THAT is the most significant aspect of this entire sorry situation.

People criticize the comparisons and similarities between Trump, and tyrannical dictators of the past... but I think the comparison is truly apt. This is how authoritarians gain power....
Spoken Like a true POLITICAL OPPONENT

Norm, you and Mit Romney are pretty much singing the same tune :)
Here's what a local Boston comentator had to say about people who view the electorate as "enraptured by a carnival barker"

Andy Hiller For 7 News WHDH in Boston eviscerates Romney http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/smilies/icon10.png

"I haven't said this in a long time: Mitt happens!And today he happened again, though I'm not sure he's going to get the political happening he wants.
Romney--who must imagine himself an elder statesman of the G.O.P--calls Trump a "phony" and a "fraud"...Which is exactly what he was called when he ran for president, and lost.
And, as for Trump "playing the American public for suckers," how about using the word "voters?"
Trump is winning because he's getting more votes than any of the Republicans Romney wants in the White House.
Aren't votes what elections are supposed to be about?
And voters aren't suckers--they're the DNA of our Democracy.

Ian McColgin
03-04-2016, 07:29 AM
Conservative critics have taken the trouble to tease out as much meaning as possible from Drumph's nebulous and contradictory blather and are pointed in their criticism.

Drumphsters are all agog with excuses for their vote that are every bit as articulate and specific as their man's policy positions.

Doesn't make either of them right.

Jim Mahan
03-04-2016, 08:48 AM
Why don't you believe it? A matter of faith?

More like an intuitive running conclusion. Watching that smarmy person run a primary campaign for president has been like noticing gangrene starting on your toe. It actually is happening, though you can't really believe it yet. And then gets further and there goes your foot, then the leg below the knee. How much do you want to chop off something a little higher up? He can't possibly win, he won't stay in the race, he's just in it for the donor bucks and the facetime on tv. Oh, carp, he's in the lead. Oh, carp again, he's got all the delegates! Oh, no! Same sort of 'oh, carp' as when the jungle drums stop and you hear light footsteps outside the hut.

Lousy mix of analogy but sorta fun to think up and associate with that cheesy, sleazy ...person. Seriously, I figure it about like leikec in #28 above. That awful person somehow managed to get this far and embarrass most of America, but there just isn't any way he could do well in the general, let alone win. If that disgusting candidate actually did win, I'm sure the Justice Department would be all over it like orange on tumescence.

The entire campaig from the very first announcement to election day in November will be as a sureal dream evaporating in the dawn light, all the drama and dreck, and we'll begin a new era championed by our gloriously capable, wise and generous and tenacious woman president. The one with the long memory.

Imagine what it will be like when her second term has only a year to go. Do you suppose that sometime around then there might begin a series of Justice Department investigations into some of those cretinous empty suits who had chaired the various congressional investigations. Don't you suppose there might be as much hidden in the Issa or Gowdy past that would warrant at least as much attention as...

...Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my! Hillary's emails and Benghazi, oh my!

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 09:56 AM
^

BZZT!!

Too many uses of "garbage casserole!"

Time to refresh the old vocabulary.

How about "refuse repast?"

"Trash tart?"

"Filet of flotsam?"

How about "Pedantic piffle"?

bobbys
03-04-2016, 12:46 PM
Huff post pays their junior cub reporters by the trump threads.

leikec
03-04-2016, 02:14 PM
How about "Pedantic piffle"?

It's good to hear from you, John. Your posts always provide tangible evidence of the continued health and vitality of the packaged liquor industry down in Tejas. :D

Jeff C

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 02:19 PM
It's good to hear from you, John. Your posts always provide tangible evidence of the continued health and vitality of the packaged liquor industry down in Tejas. :D

Jeff C

So, you figure me for a drunk.

I'd say that's pretty rude, dude.

TomF
03-04-2016, 02:21 PM
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/1896964_10152260534648417_739541689_n.png?oh=10525 9265b056c0d6de0a80ef4168a95&oe=574F9563

Minnesnowtan
03-04-2016, 02:41 PM
I am no Trump fan, but after reading that letter, Who The F do they think they are. If Trump is elected in accordance to our laws, then he is President.

I will say without a doubt, in Trump V Hillary, I am voting Trump.

Osborne Russell
03-04-2016, 02:52 PM
I am no Trump fan, but after reading that letter, Who The F do they think they are.

Perhaps you should read it again. They say who they are. Who do you think they think they are?


If Trump is elected in accordance to our laws, then he is President.

Perhaps you should read it again. They're speaking of preventing his election.


Therefore, as committed and loyal Republicans, we are unable to support a Party ticket with Mr. Trump at its head. We commit ourselves to working energetically to prevent the election of someone so utterly unfitted to the office.

leikec
03-04-2016, 02:53 PM
I will say without a doubt, in Trump V Hillary, I am voting Trump.

Wow...surprising. Maybe if you're lucky Trump will make Michelle Bachmann's husband Secretary of Religion.

Jeff C

Minnesnowtan
03-04-2016, 03:08 PM
Wow...surprising. Maybe if you're lucky Trump will make Michelle Bachmann's husband Secretary of Religion.

Jeff C


And maybe Michelle Bachmann as VP?

TomF
03-04-2016, 03:12 PM
Wow...surprising...I'm not surprised. Minne has taken a pretty punitive line on some of those he views as the "bad guys" in his line of work, in contrast at least with many of the folks I'd known decades ago who also worked with a similar clientele. I'd be more surprised if he'd been planning to vote for Bernie, though I suspect that others in his office would trend that direction.

Minnesnowtan
03-04-2016, 03:13 PM
I have said before that in Trump V Bernie I would vote Bernie!

TomF
03-04-2016, 03:15 PM
I have said before that in Trump V Bernie I would vote Bernie!I missed that. My apologies.

Durnik
03-04-2016, 03:27 PM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by leikec http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?p=4822340#post4822340)

It's good to hear from you, John. Your posts always provide tangible evidence of the continued health and vitality of the packaged liquor industry down in Tejas. :D

Jeff C







Having visited with & shared the hospitality of John in his home & shop, I can say I that this intimation is 'out there flapping' somewhere.. to be polite.

bobby

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 04:46 PM
Having visited with & shared the hospitality of John in his home & shop, I can say I that this intimation is 'out there flapping' somewhere.. to be polite.

bobby

Jeff ain' no bad guy, he just can't bring himself to look at the utter hypocrisy exhibited by certain yankees as regards the Civil War.

I guess his failure to examine that question objectively makes me a drunk.

Who knew?

leikec
03-04-2016, 06:13 PM
Jeff ain' no bad guy, he just can't bring himself to look at the utter hypocrisy exhibited by certain yankees as regards the Civil War.

I guess his failure to examine that question objectively makes me a drunk.

Who knew?

Don't blame me because your personal brand of revisionist history doesn't pass muster. If we can't blame your lack of critical thinking on drinking I guess we're just gonna have to decide that you're one of the slow kids on the block...

Jeff C

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 06:40 PM
Don't blame me because your personal brand of revisionist history doesn't pass muster. If we can't blame your lack of critical thinking on drinking I guess we're just gonna have to decide that you're one of the slow kids on the block...

Jeff C



This particular 'slow kid' scored in the 99th percentile on his college entrance tests so, in all likelihood, I should rightfully regard YOU as one of the slow kids.

But I'm kinder than that.

Why you have chosen to characterize me as a stupid drunk is inextricably linked to your own denial of the horror your yankee culture has visited upon the African American community for lo these 150 years or more, so I am prepared to be compassionate toward you in your crippling guilt.

Revisionist history?

Do tell.

LeeG
03-04-2016, 06:44 PM
I missed this sub thread somehow. My critical thinking was spotty before puberty and all the other mind altering opportunities available.

Do Californians miss out on the Yankee identification?

leikec
03-04-2016, 06:48 PM
This particular 'slow kid' scored in the 99th percentile on his college entrance tests so, in all likelihood, I should rightfully regard YOU as one of the slow kids.

But I'm kinder than that.

Why you have chosen to characterize me as a stupid drunk is inextricably linked to your own denial of the horror your yankee culture has visited upon the African American community for lo these 150 years or more, so I am prepared to be compassionate toward you in your crippling guilt.

Revisionist history?

Do tell.

Go back to sleep...I schooled you on this subject once before and I've moved on. You and RonW can wrap yourselves in the CSA battle flag to your heart's content and have all of the amorous tickle time you want. Dig N.B. Forrest up and invite him to join you for all I care.

Have a pleasant weekend.

Jeff C

Daniel Noyes
03-04-2016, 06:50 PM
This particular 'slow kid' scored in the 99th percentile on his college entrance tests so, in all likelihood, I should rightfully regard YOU as one of the slow kids.

But I'm kinder than that.

Why you have chosen to characterize me as a stupid drunk is inextricably linked to your own denial of the horror your yankee culture has visited upon the African American community for lo these 150 years or more, so I am prepared to be compassionate toward you in your crippling guilt.

Revisionist history?

Do tell.

Un-Hinged

Sky Blue
03-04-2016, 06:54 PM
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/v/t1.0-9/1896964_10152260534648417_739541689_n.png?oh=10525 9265b056c0d6de0a80ef4168a95&oe=574F9563

Wow, TomF. Now you're recycling the neo-conservative rationales? This guy sounds just like them.

leikec
03-04-2016, 06:55 PM
Un-Hinged

Just on this one particular issue. I'm not really that upset with him--in fact I bet he's a pretty good guy...but he does have trouble letting go at times. :D

Jeff C

Daniel Noyes
03-04-2016, 07:03 PM
Iv'e talked "at" him in the past about this and he believes that Union soldiers and Northerners were "JUST as RACIST as Democrat, Confederate, SLAVE OWNERS", even though Union troops were willing to give up five years of their lives... Or the rest of their life for the cause of freedom.

It's not possible to have a rational conversation with him on the subject. Like the moniker says "Hysterical Illiterate"

leikec
03-04-2016, 07:11 PM
Iv'e talked "at" him in the past about this and he believes that Union soldiers and Northerners were "JUST as RACIST as Democrat, Confederate, SLAVE OWNERS", even though Union troops were willing to give up five years of their lives... Or the rest of their life for the cause of freedom.

It's not possible to have a rational conversation with him on the subject.

I doubt it's possible to have a rational conversation with YOU on this subject...I well remember your simplistic, naive opinions, and believe me, you're off in La-La land.

Jeff C

S.V. Airlie
03-04-2016, 07:20 PM
you're off in La-La land.

Jeff C http://forum.woodenboat.com/clear.gif Reply (http://forum.woodenboat.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4822674&noquote=1) http://forum.woodenboat.com/clear.gif Reply With Quote (http://forum.woodenboat.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4822674) But, he likes La-La Land:( http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/multiquote_40b.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4822674) (http://forum.woodenboat.com/report.php?p=4822674)

leikec
03-04-2016, 07:23 PM
you're off in La-La land.

Jeff C http://forum.woodenboat.com/clear.gif Reply (http://forum.woodenboat.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4822674&noquote=1) http://forum.woodenboat.com/clear.gif Reply With Quote (http://forum.woodenboat.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4822674) But, he likes La-La Land:( http://forum.woodenboat.com/images/buttons/multiquote_40b.png (http://forum.woodenboat.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4822674)


It's a sad thing indeed when Onza and I get interrupted in the middle of a good spit-fight!! :D

Jeff C

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 07:36 PM
Go back to sleep...I schooled you on this subject once before and I've moved on. You and RonW can wrap yourselves in the CSA battle flag to your heart's content and have all of the amorous tickle time you want. Dig N.B. Forrest up and invite him to join you for all I care.

Have a pleasant weekend.

Jeff C

You have never schooled me on this, or any other issue.

In fact, projecting your own racist and homosexual longings onto me merely illustrates what an ignominious defeat you must have suffered.

Your desperation to associate me with RonW does nothing to camouflage your continued retreat behind the petticoats of your own delusions of moral superiority.

Pathetic, really.

Have a pleasant weekend.

skuthorp
03-04-2016, 07:43 PM
I think this thread is heading for the high jump, being now all about personal insults.
Can someone please call mom to box a few ears?

leikec
03-04-2016, 07:43 PM
You have never schooled me on this, or any other issue.

In fact, projecting your own racist and homosexual longings onto me merely illustrates what an ignominious defeat you must have suffered.

Your desperation to associate me with RonW does nothing to camouflage your continued retreat behind the petticoats of your own delusions of moral superiority.

Pathetic, really.

Have a pleasant weekend.

Wow...that was a pretty good comeback. I was beginning to think you'd gone away mad... :D I've been busy while you were off playing defending your reputation--you could at least show some gratitude.

And by the way--I look like hell in a petticoat--even on my morally superior days. Now you're just being mean.

Jeff C

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 07:47 PM
Wow...that was a pretty good comeback. I was beginning to think you'd gone away mad... :D I've been busy while you were off playing defending your reputation--you could at least show some gratitude.

And by the way--I look like hell in a petticoat--even on my morally superior days. Now you're just being mean.

Jeff C

Mean?

No.

I am being quite magnanimous.

I won't be grateful, however. I can not imagine thanking someone for calling me a stupid drunk.

leikec
03-04-2016, 07:54 PM
Mean?

No.

I am being quite magnanimous.

I won't be grateful, however. I can not imagine thanking someone for calling me a stupid drunk.

I called you a slow drunk, which isn't quite the same thing...and I punctuated with a smiley. I can only imagine that your slow response time is due to you having to get three people to help you spell the word 'magnanimous.' Pick up the pace a little.

Jeff C

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 08:01 PM
I called you a slow drunk, which isn't quite the same thing...and I punctuated with a smiley. I can only imagine that your slow response time is due to you having to get three people to help you spell the word 'magnanimous.' Pick up the pace a little.

Jeff C

Sorry, boss.

I had to fix a bicycle, plow 4 150' rows of garden, freeze several gallons of beans, complete the last of the fence corners and review a child's homework while you were sputtering around trying to call me a stupid drunk.

I think I'll just let you stew in your own repressed racism and latent homoerotic fantasies for awhile.

Maybe you'll figure out what it is you decided to start this poopflinging about.

leikec
03-04-2016, 08:02 PM
I think this thread is heading for the high jump, being now all about personal insults.
Can someone please call mom to box a few ears?

We'll be done in a few minutes. I can tell John's getting tired--that last post of his was a long way from being his best work.

Jeff C

leikec
03-04-2016, 08:07 PM
Sorry, boss.

I had to fix a bicycle, plow 4 150' rows of garden, freeze several gallons of beans, complete the last of the fence corners and review a child's homework while you were sputtering around trying to call me a stupid drunk.

I think I'll just let you stew in your own repressed racism and latent homoerotic fantasies for awhile.

Maybe you'll figure out what it is you decided to start this poopflinging about.

Nope, he's still got game. And you started the poopflinging, my friend. I just escalated it a bit. Make sure you got the seat on straight on that bike--I'd hate to think that you were riding along with your goombas all crooked and out of whack. :D

Jeff C

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 08:22 PM
It's good to hear from you, John. Your posts always provide tangible evidence of the continued health and vitality of the packaged liquor industry down in Tejas. :D

Jeff C

OK, so this doesn't qualify as starting the poopflinging?

The first time you address me in this thread you tell me that my posts are ALWAYS evidence that I'm a drunk?

I'll tell you what. If these are the manners your mother taught you, then you are no longer invited to the barbecue.

Sorry.

leikec
03-04-2016, 08:53 PM
How about "Pedantic piffle"?

hummph...

Jeff C

oznabrag
03-04-2016, 09:51 PM
hummph...

Jeff C

I see.

When I want to accuse you of pedantry, you may rest assured that I will quote your post when I do so.

Until then, you should be 'swift' enough to understand that that remark was not directed at you.

bobbys
03-05-2016, 01:13 AM
I could use a drink.