Fir Marine Plywood

[jcimbak]

Anyone out there have an opinion on using Fir Marine Ply for hull construction. I can't get Okume locally at all (this is WV, our coast line is Myrtle Beach 8 hours away!).

I bought a couple sheets for my transom. I cut a sample of it and boiled it in water. I then froze it. I then boiled it. I then froze it. I then oven dried it to 200 degrees. I just boiled it again and it is now refreezing. I'm trying to get it to delaminate but it won't.

So, I'm assuming that if I use it for hull construction it will be fine structurally. I will fiberglass sheath the whole exterior and epoxy seal and paint the interior with quality top side paint.

Any advice or thoughts from you guru's?

[jcimbak]

Anyone out there have an opinion on using Fir Marine Ply for hull construction. I can't get Okume locally at all (this is WV, our coast line is Myrtle Beach 8 hours away!).

I bought a couple sheets for my transom. I cut a sample of it and boiled it in water. I then froze it. I then boiled it. I then froze it. I then oven dried it to 200 degrees. I just boiled it again and it is now refreezing. I'm trying to get it to delaminate but it won't.

So, I'm assuming that if I use it for hull construction it will be fine structurally. I will fiberglass sheath the whole exterior and epoxy seal and paint the interior with quality top side paint.

Any advice or thoughts from you guru's?

[jcimbak]

Anyone out there have an opinion on using Fir Marine Ply for hull construction. I can't get Okume locally at all (this is WV, our coast line is Myrtle Beach 8 hours away!).

I bought a couple sheets for my transom. I cut a sample of it and boiled it in water. I then froze it. I then boiled it. I then froze it. I then oven dried it to 200 degrees. I just boiled it again and it is now refreezing. I'm trying to get it to delaminate but it won't.

So, I'm assuming that if I use it for hull construction it will be fine structurally. I will fiberglass sheath the whole exterior and epoxy seal and paint the interior with quality top side paint.

Any advice or thoughts from you guru's?

[Mr. Know It All]

My 1961 Lyman's hull (lapstrake or clinker built construction) was made with 3/8 Douglas Fir Marine Plywood and is still in pretty good shape after 41 years. Doesen't look as nice as some other woods though but it's usually cheaper. A good source for marine grade (BS 1088) plywood in Ohio is here-----> http://www.homesteadhardwoods.com/
They list their prices on their website and have quite a selection of different plywoods for marine use. There might be a source closer to you but you could probably drive here and back in a day from WV. Pay close attention to face vaneer thickness of the ply's. The thicker stuff is better but will cost more. Best of luck on your project.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

My 1961 Lyman's hull (lapstrake or clinker built construction) was made with 3/8 Douglas Fir Marine Plywood and is still in pretty good shape after 41 years. Doesen't look as nice as some other woods though but it's usually cheaper. A good source for marine grade (BS 1088) plywood in Ohio is here-----> http://www.homesteadhardwoods.com/
They list their prices on their website and have quite a selection of different plywoods for marine use. There might be a source closer to you but you could probably drive here and back in a day from WV. Pay close attention to face vaneer thickness of the ply's. The thicker stuff is better but will cost more. Best of luck on your project.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

My 1961 Lyman's hull (lapstrake or clinker built construction) was made with 3/8 Douglas Fir Marine Plywood and is still in pretty good shape after 41 years. Doesen't look as nice as some other woods though but it's usually cheaper. A good source for marine grade (BS 1088) plywood in Ohio is here-----> http://www.homesteadhardwoods.com/
They list their prices on their website and have quite a selection of different plywoods for marine use. There might be a source closer to you but you could probably drive here and back in a day from WV. Pay close attention to face vaneer thickness of the ply's. The thicker stuff is better but will cost more. Best of luck on your project.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[A. Mason]

Fir marine plywood is the way to go. Your biggest problem is not going to be de-lamination, but dry-rotting from within.

According to my father's comments from his "How-to-build" articles, "a word should be mentioned regarding the use of plywood, [it] should be of one species throughout. … a marine plywood should be a hardwood plywood is to be desired, although exterior type plywood bearing the grade mark EXT-DFPA will be equally satisfactory if building of Fir plywood and painted. …"

"Mahogany plywood should be solid Mahogany and not merely Mahogany-faced. There have been too many cases of the center cores of Mahogany-faced plywood dry-rotting completely away to leave only a thin shell that eventually collapsed. … If only Mahogany-faced plywood is available, it is much better to use Douglas Fir plywood that is edge-branded EXT-DFPA. …"

Hope this helps, Anita

[A. Mason]

Fir marine plywood is the way to go. Your biggest problem is not going to be de-lamination, but dry-rotting from within.

According to my father's comments from his "How-to-build" articles, "a word should be mentioned regarding the use of plywood, [it] should be of one species throughout. … a marine plywood should be a hardwood plywood is to be desired, although exterior type plywood bearing the grade mark EXT-DFPA will be equally satisfactory if building of Fir plywood and painted. …"

"Mahogany plywood should be solid Mahogany and not merely Mahogany-faced. There have been too many cases of the center cores of Mahogany-faced plywood dry-rotting completely away to leave only a thin shell that eventually collapsed. … If only Mahogany-faced plywood is available, it is much better to use Douglas Fir plywood that is edge-branded EXT-DFPA. …"

Hope this helps, Anita

[A. Mason]

Fir marine plywood is the way to go. Your biggest problem is not going to be de-lamination, but dry-rotting from within.

According to my father's comments from his "How-to-build" articles, "a word should be mentioned regarding the use of plywood, [it] should be of one species throughout. … a marine plywood should be a hardwood plywood is to be desired, although exterior type plywood bearing the grade mark EXT-DFPA will be equally satisfactory if building of Fir plywood and painted. …"

"Mahogany plywood should be solid Mahogany and not merely Mahogany-faced. There have been too many cases of the center cores of Mahogany-faced plywood dry-rotting completely away to leave only a thin shell that eventually collapsed. … If only Mahogany-faced plywood is available, it is much better to use Douglas Fir plywood that is edge-branded EXT-DFPA. …"

Hope this helps, Anita

[Frank Hagan]

Well, I like douglas fir as a boat building wood, and used exterior grade ply on my little day sailer (because I don't expect it to last more than five years or so). But I'm not sure I would spend the money for marine grade douglas fir.

Not from personal experience, but from what I've heard from professionals like Sam Devlin. In Chapter 4 of his boook Devlin's Boat Building, he talks a bit about domestic marine plywood, and much prefers imported marine plywood meeting British 1088 standard. He recounts several stories of the fir plywood having voids, and boats built side-by-side of fir and imported marine plywood that had similar use and were re-finished in the same year (4 years later.) The one built with douglas fir marine plywood cost quite a bit more to refinish.

If the boat is to live in the water, I would go with an imported marine plywood. If its a day sailer, living on a trailer, I think its builder's choice then.

[Frank Hagan]

Well, I like douglas fir as a boat building wood, and used exterior grade ply on my little day sailer (because I don't expect it to last more than five years or so). But I'm not sure I would spend the money for marine grade douglas fir.

Not from personal experience, but from what I've heard from professionals like Sam Devlin. In Chapter 4 of his boook Devlin's Boat Building, he talks a bit about domestic marine plywood, and much prefers imported marine plywood meeting British 1088 standard. He recounts several stories of the fir plywood having voids, and boats built side-by-side of fir and imported marine plywood that had similar use and were re-finished in the same year (4 years later.) The one built with douglas fir marine plywood cost quite a bit more to refinish.

If the boat is to live in the water, I would go with an imported marine plywood. If its a day sailer, living on a trailer, I think its builder's choice then.

[Frank Hagan]

Well, I like douglas fir as a boat building wood, and used exterior grade ply on my little day sailer (because I don't expect it to last more than five years or so). But I'm not sure I would spend the money for marine grade douglas fir.

Not from personal experience, but from what I've heard from professionals like Sam Devlin. In Chapter 4 of his boook Devlin's Boat Building, he talks a bit about domestic marine plywood, and much prefers imported marine plywood meeting British 1088 standard. He recounts several stories of the fir plywood having voids, and boats built side-by-side of fir and imported marine plywood that had similar use and were re-finished in the same year (4 years later.) The one built with douglas fir marine plywood cost quite a bit more to refinish.

If the boat is to live in the water, I would go with an imported marine plywood. If its a day sailer, living on a trailer, I think its builder's choice then.

[A. Mason]

When Al Mason referred to marine plywood he cited that it should be "… in accordance with the joint Amry-Navy specifications JAN-P-66, daated September 22, 1944 …"

During WWII, plywood first came to the forefront as a construction material for naval ship building. It was cheaper and faster to build with the "new" plywood than with traditional marine lumber. [There was a "behind the scenes belief that there was no need to spend a lot of time, materials, and labor on a ship that may, or may not, survive five years.]

Plywood has come a long way in the past 50 years, but I seriously doubt that "imported" plywood is superior unless it is able to not only meet, but surpass, the strict standards of the U.S. and Lloyd's. Anita

[A. Mason]

When Al Mason referred to marine plywood he cited that it should be "… in accordance with the joint Amry-Navy specifications JAN-P-66, daated September 22, 1944 …"

During WWII, plywood first came to the forefront as a construction material for naval ship building. It was cheaper and faster to build with the "new" plywood than with traditional marine lumber. [There was a "behind the scenes belief that there was no need to spend a lot of time, materials, and labor on a ship that may, or may not, survive five years.]

Plywood has come a long way in the past 50 years, but I seriously doubt that "imported" plywood is superior unless it is able to not only meet, but surpass, the strict standards of the U.S. and Lloyd's. Anita

[A. Mason]

When Al Mason referred to marine plywood he cited that it should be "… in accordance with the joint Amry-Navy specifications JAN-P-66, daated September 22, 1944 …"

During WWII, plywood first came to the forefront as a construction material for naval ship building. It was cheaper and faster to build with the "new" plywood than with traditional marine lumber. [There was a "behind the scenes belief that there was no need to spend a lot of time, materials, and labor on a ship that may, or may not, survive five years.]

Plywood has come a long way in the past 50 years, but I seriously doubt that "imported" plywood is superior unless it is able to not only meet, but surpass, the strict standards of the U.S. and Lloyd's. Anita

[Wild Dingo]

jcimbak

This thred will probably cause a bit of disention in some quarters... but... if the Fir ply is the best you can get most solid you can get close to you without having to seriassly put yourself out getting something that may or may not prove better in the long run... use it!...

Youve tried all that and it wont delaminate??... You ARE going to encapsulate it... so wheres the problem?

Now costs is another aspect of ply... one can go nuts and purchase only the finest imported Bruzeeyl {sp?} marine ply and pay through the nose... {Jeeeeez Id hate to know what that would cost around here if one could get it! :eek: } one could buy the best priced marine ply and one could buy what one can afford... and the resulting boats will serve their purpose although some will last longer than others...

From what I can gather from here and other reading its a matter of what you can get... what your prepared to pay and what you can afford to pay... Of course if the stuff is absolute crap then ignore it but youve said youve tried to delaminate it and not succeeded... Id venture to say you should use it.

okay so here in West Aus I cant get Marine ply of any sort or size for less than $40 a sheet for the smaller size it gets expensive very swiftly from 1/4 ply up!! ... but if I hunt around over east and if I am prepared to wait for about a week for the stuff to arrive over here by truck or train I can get marine ply for less... quality unknown sight unseen till it arrives... you may be in the same spot??... buy the ply you are most comfortable with check it first so you will need to eyeball it... choose the best of whats there and go for it!...

But others will say go only for the very best its your ass and the asses of your nippers that will be on the line... and they have a point... others will likely say something else entirely... in the end its your call mate

But do a search and I think you will find that the concensus will be that if youve done the tests you have done and its not checked or delaminated or shown any other problems AND if your going to as you say
I will fiberglass sheath the whole exterior and epoxy seal and paint the interior with quality top side paint.
I think one can with reasonable safely say go for it!...

Take it easy
Shane

[Wild Dingo]

jcimbak

This thred will probably cause a bit of disention in some quarters... but... if the Fir ply is the best you can get most solid you can get close to you without having to seriassly put yourself out getting something that may or may not prove better in the long run... use it!...

Youve tried all that and it wont delaminate??... You ARE going to encapsulate it... so wheres the problem?

Now costs is another aspect of ply... one can go nuts and purchase only the finest imported Bruzeeyl {sp?} marine ply and pay through the nose... {Jeeeeez Id hate to know what that would cost around here if one could get it! :eek: } one could buy the best priced marine ply and one could buy what one can afford... and the resulting boats will serve their purpose although some will last longer than others...

From what I can gather from here and other reading its a matter of what you can get... what your prepared to pay and what you can afford to pay... Of course if the stuff is absolute crap then ignore it but youve said youve tried to delaminate it and not succeeded... Id venture to say you should use it.

okay so here in West Aus I cant get Marine ply of any sort or size for less than $40 a sheet for the smaller size it gets expensive very swiftly from 1/4 ply up!! ... but if I hunt around over east and if I am prepared to wait for about a week for the stuff to arrive over here by truck or train I can get marine ply for less... quality unknown sight unseen till it arrives... you may be in the same spot??... buy the ply you are most comfortable with check it first so you will need to eyeball it... choose the best of whats there and go for it!...

But others will say go only for the very best its your ass and the asses of your nippers that will be on the line... and they have a point... others will likely say something else entirely... in the end its your call mate

But do a search and I think you will find that the concensus will be that if youve done the tests you have done and its not checked or delaminated or shown any other problems AND if your going to as you say
I will fiberglass sheath the whole exterior and epoxy seal and paint the interior with quality top side paint.
I think one can with reasonable safely say go for it!...

Take it easy
Shane

[Wild Dingo]

jcimbak

This thred will probably cause a bit of disention in some quarters... but... if the Fir ply is the best you can get most solid you can get close to you without having to seriassly put yourself out getting something that may or may not prove better in the long run... use it!...

Youve tried all that and it wont delaminate??... You ARE going to encapsulate it... so wheres the problem?

Now costs is another aspect of ply... one can go nuts and purchase only the finest imported Bruzeeyl {sp?} marine ply and pay through the nose... {Jeeeeez Id hate to know what that would cost around here if one could get it! :eek: } one could buy the best priced marine ply and one could buy what one can afford... and the resulting boats will serve their purpose although some will last longer than others...

From what I can gather from here and other reading its a matter of what you can get... what your prepared to pay and what you can afford to pay... Of course if the stuff is absolute crap then ignore it but youve said youve tried to delaminate it and not succeeded... Id venture to say you should use it.

okay so here in West Aus I cant get Marine ply of any sort or size for less than $40 a sheet for the smaller size it gets expensive very swiftly from 1/4 ply up!! ... but if I hunt around over east and if I am prepared to wait for about a week for the stuff to arrive over here by truck or train I can get marine ply for less... quality unknown sight unseen till it arrives... you may be in the same spot??... buy the ply you are most comfortable with check it first so you will need to eyeball it... choose the best of whats there and go for it!...

But others will say go only for the very best its your ass and the asses of your nippers that will be on the line... and they have a point... others will likely say something else entirely... in the end its your call mate

But do a search and I think you will find that the concensus will be that if youve done the tests you have done and its not checked or delaminated or shown any other problems AND if your going to as you say
I will fiberglass sheath the whole exterior and epoxy seal and paint the interior with quality top side paint.
I think one can with reasonable safely say go for it!...

Take it easy
Shane

[Andrew]

I just bough some domestic 1/2" marine fir ply at $67 a sheet and was totally disappointed. When I cut a piece for my working deck, it had a 3/4" void all the way across it. As I'm using penatrating epoxy followed by West epoxy and fiberglass, the next sheet I bought was A-C from Lowes at one third the cost and had far less voids.

PS It's proably wise to cover any fir ply with fiberglass to prevent its propensity to check.

[Andrew]

I just bough some domestic 1/2" marine fir ply at $67 a sheet and was totally disappointed. When I cut a piece for my working deck, it had a 3/4" void all the way across it. As I'm using penatrating epoxy followed by West epoxy and fiberglass, the next sheet I bought was A-C from Lowes at one third the cost and had far less voids.

PS It's proably wise to cover any fir ply with fiberglass to prevent its propensity to check.

[Andrew]

I just bough some domestic 1/2" marine fir ply at $67 a sheet and was totally disappointed. When I cut a piece for my working deck, it had a 3/4" void all the way across it. As I'm using penatrating epoxy followed by West epoxy and fiberglass, the next sheet I bought was A-C from Lowes at one third the cost and had far less voids.

PS It's proably wise to cover any fir ply with fiberglass to prevent its propensity to check.

[Scott Rosen]

As I write this, I'm looking at a scrap of 3/4" mohagony ply from the sheet that transom of my Nutshell Pram was cut from. It is high quality maine ply. It is truly amazing stuff.

Having said that, I think high quality fir ply will be structurally fine. The only problems I've had with fir ply is in painting it. It won't take a painted finish worth a damm. You can't hide the grain and you can't prevent checking with just paint. Even coating it in epoxy won't necessarily do the trick. As others have said, so long as you glass it, you should have no problems with the finish.

To my mind, using fir and glassing it may be false economy. If you used mohag. ply, you could get an excellent finish, even a bright finish, without having to glass it. You'd save the money and time of having to glass and epoxy the entire hull. The savings might offset the extra cost of the better ply.

[ 08-22-2002, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]

[Scott Rosen]

As I write this, I'm looking at a scrap of 3/4" mohagony ply from the sheet that transom of my Nutshell Pram was cut from. It is high quality maine ply. It is truly amazing stuff.

Having said that, I think high quality fir ply will be structurally fine. The only problems I've had with fir ply is in painting it. It won't take a painted finish worth a damm. You can't hide the grain and you can't prevent checking with just paint. Even coating it in epoxy won't necessarily do the trick. As others have said, so long as you glass it, you should have no problems with the finish.

To my mind, using fir and glassing it may be false economy. If you used mohag. ply, you could get an excellent finish, even a bright finish, without having to glass it. You'd save the money and time of having to glass and epoxy the entire hull. The savings might offset the extra cost of the better ply.

[ 08-22-2002, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]

[Scott Rosen]

As I write this, I'm looking at a scrap of 3/4" mohagony ply from the sheet that transom of my Nutshell Pram was cut from. It is high quality maine ply. It is truly amazing stuff.

Having said that, I think high quality fir ply will be structurally fine. The only problems I've had with fir ply is in painting it. It won't take a painted finish worth a damm. You can't hide the grain and you can't prevent checking with just paint. Even coating it in epoxy won't necessarily do the trick. As others have said, so long as you glass it, you should have no problems with the finish.

To my mind, using fir and glassing it may be false economy. If you used mohag. ply, you could get an excellent finish, even a bright finish, without having to glass it. You'd save the money and time of having to glass and epoxy the entire hull. The savings might offset the extra cost of the better ply.

[ 08-22-2002, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Scott Rosen ]

[Memphis Mike]

Hey dude! Good to have another hillbilly
aboard! I was born and raised in Montgomery,
WV. Thirty miles east of you.

I'm building a daysailer from Fir and plan
to glass it to prevent any problems.

[Memphis Mike]

Hey dude! Good to have another hillbilly
aboard! I was born and raised in Montgomery,
WV. Thirty miles east of you.

I'm building a daysailer from Fir and plan
to glass it to prevent any problems.

[Memphis Mike]

Hey dude! Good to have another hillbilly
aboard! I was born and raised in Montgomery,
WV. Thirty miles east of you.

I'm building a daysailer from Fir and plan
to glass it to prevent any problems.

[Dave Fleming]

Scott, that continous checking in Doug Fir ply is one of the reasons Simpson developed MDO.
Medium Density Overlay
We used to use it for pilot house sides and interior bulkheads because it took paint so well and was solid core with almost no voids whatsoever.
Simpson also made a beautiful Marine Ply called...
Royal Marine Ply but due to lack of demand(?) back in the 70's shut the plant in Shelton, WA., down.
I favour the Brunzeel brand of african mahogony ply for marine use although the true FinPly Marine grade is very good stuff too but the damn veneer grain runs the short way on a 4 foot bye 8 foot sheet! Must be something to do with that theer Europeeen Metrical thingy in the veneer slicer/lathe.

[Dave Fleming]

Scott, that continous checking in Doug Fir ply is one of the reasons Simpson developed MDO.
Medium Density Overlay
We used to use it for pilot house sides and interior bulkheads because it took paint so well and was solid core with almost no voids whatsoever.
Simpson also made a beautiful Marine Ply called...
Royal Marine Ply but due to lack of demand(?) back in the 70's shut the plant in Shelton, WA., down.
I favour the Brunzeel brand of african mahogony ply for marine use although the true FinPly Marine grade is very good stuff too but the damn veneer grain runs the short way on a 4 foot bye 8 foot sheet! Must be something to do with that theer Europeeen Metrical thingy in the veneer slicer/lathe.

[Dave Fleming]

Scott, that continous checking in Doug Fir ply is one of the reasons Simpson developed MDO.
Medium Density Overlay
We used to use it for pilot house sides and interior bulkheads because it took paint so well and was solid core with almost no voids whatsoever.
Simpson also made a beautiful Marine Ply called...
Royal Marine Ply but due to lack of demand(?) back in the 70's shut the plant in Shelton, WA., down.
I favour the Brunzeel brand of african mahogony ply for marine use although the true FinPly Marine grade is very good stuff too but the damn veneer grain runs the short way on a 4 foot bye 8 foot sheet! Must be something to do with that theer Europeeen Metrical thingy in the veneer slicer/lathe.

[Mr. Know It All]

I think Scott made a valid point about using better quality wood and not having to use fiberglass. The first time you wack into something and the fiberglass cracks water will be trapped between the fiberglass and the wood and the rot will be off to the races. No one has explained how the Doug Fir plywood on my boat has survived for 41 years with just paint and varnish either. If I took the time to build a boat,I would hope I'd get more than 5 years out of it.

[Mr. Know It All]

I think Scott made a valid point about using better quality wood and not having to use fiberglass. The first time you wack into something and the fiberglass cracks water will be trapped between the fiberglass and the wood and the rot will be off to the races. No one has explained how the Doug Fir plywood on my boat has survived for 41 years with just paint and varnish either. If I took the time to build a boat,I would hope I'd get more than 5 years out of it.

[Mr. Know It All]

I think Scott made a valid point about using better quality wood and not having to use fiberglass. The first time you wack into something and the fiberglass cracks water will be trapped between the fiberglass and the wood and the rot will be off to the races. No one has explained how the Doug Fir plywood on my boat has survived for 41 years with just paint and varnish either. If I took the time to build a boat,I would hope I'd get more than 5 years out of it.

[Dave Fleming]

K I A, that' easy, 40 years ago good Doug Fir ply was available!

[Dave Fleming]

K I A, that' easy, 40 years ago good Doug Fir ply was available!

[Dave Fleming]

K I A, that' easy, 40 years ago good Doug Fir ply was available!

[Memphis Mike]

Why is it that fir ply. checks?

[Memphis Mike]

Why is it that fir ply. checks?

[Memphis Mike]

Why is it that fir ply. checks?

[Dave Fleming]

MM, usually veneer for ply is rotary cut on big veneer lathe.
Ever hear of peeler poles or seen 'em?
Usually about 6 or so inches in diameter aboaut 8 feet and a bit more with funny looking indentations in the ends( oh ain't that some beaut of a sentence!).
Them's the remains of a log that was peeled bye the veneer lathe and now has a home as a garden fence post after being treated with 'persin' to kill and bugs 'n such.
Flitch Cut veneer is more stable but ever so much more costly, ya folla?

[Dave Fleming]

MM, usually veneer for ply is rotary cut on big veneer lathe.
Ever hear of peeler poles or seen 'em?
Usually about 6 or so inches in diameter aboaut 8 feet and a bit more with funny looking indentations in the ends( oh ain't that some beaut of a sentence!).
Them's the remains of a log that was peeled bye the veneer lathe and now has a home as a garden fence post after being treated with 'persin' to kill and bugs 'n such.
Flitch Cut veneer is more stable but ever so much more costly, ya folla?

[Dave Fleming]

MM, usually veneer for ply is rotary cut on big veneer lathe.
Ever hear of peeler poles or seen 'em?
Usually about 6 or so inches in diameter aboaut 8 feet and a bit more with funny looking indentations in the ends( oh ain't that some beaut of a sentence!).
Them's the remains of a log that was peeled bye the veneer lathe and now has a home as a garden fence post after being treated with 'persin' to kill and bugs 'n such.
Flitch Cut veneer is more stable but ever so much more costly, ya folla?

[Memphis Mike]

So ifin they inject persin inta it. Is thet
what causes the checkin? Or is it the way
the dang stuff is cut.

[Memphis Mike]

So ifin they inject persin inta it. Is thet
what causes the checkin? Or is it the way
the dang stuff is cut.

[Memphis Mike]

So ifin they inject persin inta it. Is thet
what causes the checkin? Or is it the way
the dang stuff is cut.

[Dave Fleming]

Naw ye idjet, the persin is injected in the reemain of ta log, called the peeler pole whenst it is ta be solt to them surby tipes fer ta gardin fenses, ya folla. Imagin a big log o' boloney and tits hung between two nails and someone has ta knife ta lenth of ta log and begins ta hod ta kinfe so thas a peeeling acton starts alongst the lenth of ta log of boloney and a lon sheeet of is astarts a comin offin ta log of bolney that theer is howsomever ta venner is taken from ta log and thin it be sliced up inta sheeets fer stackin and gluein afta it drys a bit see ta log is kep in a pon ta keeep it plyible fer ta peeelin and ta glue it up fer ply its gots to be dryed some.
Causin its from sorta cros grain ta stuf drys wit a fuzy surfice.
Am I agettin acrost to ya?
Yore fren the^ADZE

[ 08-22-2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Dave Fleming]

Naw ye idjet, the persin is injected in the reemain of ta log, called the peeler pole whenst it is ta be solt to them surby tipes fer ta gardin fenses, ya folla. Imagin a big log o' boloney and tits hung between two nails and someone has ta knife ta lenth of ta log and begins ta hod ta kinfe so thas a peeeling acton starts alongst the lenth of ta log of boloney and a lon sheeet of is astarts a comin offin ta log of bolney that theer is howsomever ta venner is taken from ta log and thin it be sliced up inta sheeets fer stackin and gluein afta it drys a bit see ta log is kep in a pon ta keeep it plyible fer ta peeelin and ta glue it up fer ply its gots to be dryed some.
Causin its from sorta cros grain ta stuf drys wit a fuzy surfice.
Am I agettin acrost to ya?
Yore fren the^ADZE

[ 08-22-2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Dave Fleming]

Naw ye idjet, the persin is injected in the reemain of ta log, called the peeler pole whenst it is ta be solt to them surby tipes fer ta gardin fenses, ya folla. Imagin a big log o' boloney and tits hung between two nails and someone has ta knife ta lenth of ta log and begins ta hod ta kinfe so thas a peeeling acton starts alongst the lenth of ta log of boloney and a lon sheeet of is astarts a comin offin ta log of bolney that theer is howsomever ta venner is taken from ta log and thin it be sliced up inta sheeets fer stackin and gluein afta it drys a bit see ta log is kep in a pon ta keeep it plyible fer ta peeelin and ta glue it up fer ply its gots to be dryed some.
Causin its from sorta cros grain ta stuf drys wit a fuzy surfice.
Am I agettin acrost to ya?
Yore fren the^ADZE

[ 08-22-2002, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Memphis Mike]

Awllllll, well shuck mah k nerts! I git
cha now. Sorta like a big ol lay huh?
And it gits thet fuzzy junk on it
sorta like fuzzy k nerts and ya caint
sand the stuff ofin it.

[Memphis Mike]

Awllllll, well shuck mah k nerts! I git
cha now. Sorta like a big ol lay huh?
And it gits thet fuzzy junk on it
sorta like fuzzy k nerts and ya caint
sand the stuff ofin it.

[Memphis Mike]

Awllllll, well shuck mah k nerts! I git
cha now. Sorta like a big ol lay huh?
And it gits thet fuzzy junk on it
sorta like fuzzy k nerts and ya caint
sand the stuff ofin it.

[Dave Fleming]

Ayayup tas it fer sheer.

[Dave Fleming]

Ayayup tas it fer sheer.

[Dave Fleming]

Ayayup tas it fer sheer.

[Mr. Know It All]

Dave.....How did they make better plywood 40 years ago? Was the wood itself better or the the way they made it? Another thing I noticed was plywood came in 2 inch thick sheets back then and I can only find 1 inch sheets now. I am stuck epoxying 2 pieces together for my transom. Just for that reason, I am considering using some kind of solid hardwood. The 1 inch plywood costs as much as something solid dang it. Why?
Thanks for your wise advise.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

Dave.....How did they make better plywood 40 years ago? Was the wood itself better or the the way they made it? Another thing I noticed was plywood came in 2 inch thick sheets back then and I can only find 1 inch sheets now. I am stuck epoxying 2 pieces together for my transom. Just for that reason, I am considering using some kind of solid hardwood. The 1 inch plywood costs as much as something solid dang it. Why?
Thanks for your wise advise.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

Dave.....How did they make better plywood 40 years ago? Was the wood itself better or the the way they made it? Another thing I noticed was plywood came in 2 inch thick sheets back then and I can only find 1 inch sheets now. I am stuck epoxying 2 pieces together for my transom. Just for that reason, I am considering using some kind of solid hardwood. The 1 inch plywood costs as much as something solid dang it. Why?
Thanks for your wise advise.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[NormMessinger]

Ann, I doubt your dad would recogonize domestic marine fir plywood these days. If you want good stuff it's gotta be imported, as best I can tell.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Ann, I doubt your dad would recogonize domestic marine fir plywood these days. If you want good stuff it's gotta be imported, as best I can tell.

--Norm

[Dave Fleming]

Took more care in the layup and finish of the sheets. Royal Marine was not cheap but it was reliable. I'm thinking some bean counter saw the imports coming in and convinced the bosses that they could save money bye shutting down the plant and laying off a bunch of folks and devote energies to more profitable products.
I doubt if the glue then is that much different than the glue used in exterior plys today.
IIRC, someone posted that the glue today is the same in all domestic ply interior and exterior.
Another factor could be that the types of trees available then, more old growth with tighter rings made a better product too.

[Dave Fleming]

Took more care in the layup and finish of the sheets. Royal Marine was not cheap but it was reliable. I'm thinking some bean counter saw the imports coming in and convinced the bosses that they could save money bye shutting down the plant and laying off a bunch of folks and devote energies to more profitable products.
I doubt if the glue then is that much different than the glue used in exterior plys today.
IIRC, someone posted that the glue today is the same in all domestic ply interior and exterior.
Another factor could be that the types of trees available then, more old growth with tighter rings made a better product too.

[NormMessinger]

Ann, I doubt your dad would recogonize domestic marine fir plywood these days. If you want good stuff it's gotta be imported, as best I can tell.

--Norm

[Dave Fleming]

Took more care in the layup and finish of the sheets. Royal Marine was not cheap but it was reliable. I'm thinking some bean counter saw the imports coming in and convinced the bosses that they could save money bye shutting down the plant and laying off a bunch of folks and devote energies to more profitable products.
I doubt if the glue then is that much different than the glue used in exterior plys today.
IIRC, someone posted that the glue today is the same in all domestic ply interior and exterior.
Another factor could be that the types of trees available then, more old growth with tighter rings made a better product too.

[Dave Fleming]

I used my last treasured sheets of Royal Marine 1 inch ply when I built those router tables and had the lab grade Formica laminated to it. That would have been in about 1979/1980 and I had hoarded those sheets for some time too.

[Dave Fleming]

I used my last treasured sheets of Royal Marine 1 inch ply when I built those router tables and had the lab grade Formica laminated to it. That would have been in about 1979/1980 and I had hoarded those sheets for some time too.

[Dave Fleming]

I used my last treasured sheets of Royal Marine 1 inch ply when I built those router tables and had the lab grade Formica laminated to it. That would have been in about 1979/1980 and I had hoarded those sheets for some time too.

[Memphis Mike]

Dave {humor aside for now}, so even if I
sand the daylights outa this stuff its
still going to check?

Also one of the sheets has a larger grain
than the rest. Is that because it was
sliced off the outside of the log?

[Memphis Mike]

Dave {humor aside for now}, so even if I
sand the daylights outa this stuff its
still going to check?

Also one of the sheets has a larger grain
than the rest. Is that because it was
sliced off the outside of the log?

[Memphis Mike]

Dave {humor aside for now}, so even if I
sand the daylights outa this stuff its
still going to check?

Also one of the sheets has a larger grain
than the rest. Is that because it was
sliced off the outside of the log?

[Dave Fleming]

MM, you are beginning to see the light!
Ayup, no matter what you do unless you coat it with goo it is going to sooner or later telegraph through with that checking.

Slicing would be better used to describe the way the better grades of veneer are removed from the log. Imagine a big gillotine(sp) set to take a slice off the log vertically. Much more costly and wasteful of the log but produces a superior veneer and costs that way too!

Peeling closer describes the way most ply veneer is removed.

[ 08-22-2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Dave Fleming]

MM, you are beginning to see the light!
Ayup, no matter what you do unless you coat it with goo it is going to sooner or later telegraph through with that checking.

Slicing would be better used to describe the way the better grades of veneer are removed from the log. Imagine a big gillotine(sp) set to take a slice off the log vertically. Much more costly and wasteful of the log but produces a superior veneer and costs that way too!

Peeling closer describes the way most ply veneer is removed.

[ 08-22-2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Dave Fleming]

MM, you are beginning to see the light!
Ayup, no matter what you do unless you coat it with goo it is going to sooner or later telegraph through with that checking.

Slicing would be better used to describe the way the better grades of veneer are removed from the log. Imagine a big gillotine(sp) set to take a slice off the log vertically. Much more costly and wasteful of the log but produces a superior veneer and costs that way too!

Peeling closer describes the way most ply veneer is removed.

[ 08-22-2002, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Dave Fleming ]

[Mr. Know It All]

Dave......I posted a link above that recently started selling 1 inch thick plywood. I need 2 inch or am I better off going with solid hardwood (mahogany?) for my transom?

[Mr. Know It All]

Dave......I posted a link above that recently started selling 1 inch thick plywood. I need 2 inch or am I better off going with solid hardwood (mahogany?) for my transom?

[Mr. Know It All]

Dave......I posted a link above that recently started selling 1 inch thick plywood. I need 2 inch or am I better off going with solid hardwood (mahogany?) for my transom?

[Memphis Mike]

Kevin, I read in WoodenBoat where they
used a vacumn bag on a Lyman to repair the
transom with veneer. #159, pg. 88.

[Memphis Mike]

Kevin, I read in WoodenBoat where they
used a vacumn bag on a Lyman to repair the
transom with veneer. #159, pg. 88.

[Memphis Mike]

Kevin, I read in WoodenBoat where they
used a vacumn bag on a Lyman to repair the
transom with veneer. #159, pg. 88.

[Dave Fleming]

K I A, my first reaction is to say go with solid wood but I have no idea what you are building etc..

People please note: todays plywood has a good chance of NOT being the actual dimension stated!
IOW, 1 inch may be 25/32nds. So if you are working to the gnats arse in measurements be aware!

[Dave Fleming]

K I A, my first reaction is to say go with solid wood but I have no idea what you are building etc..

People please note: todays plywood has a good chance of NOT being the actual dimension stated!
IOW, 1 inch may be 25/32nds. So if you are working to the gnats arse in measurements be aware!

[Dave Fleming]

K I A, my first reaction is to say go with solid wood but I have no idea what you are building etc..

People please note: todays plywood has a good chance of NOT being the actual dimension stated!
IOW, 1 inch may be 25/32nds. So if you are working to the gnats arse in measurements be aware!

[jcimbak]

Hi...

thanks for the message (all of you!)

you mention "penetrating epoxy" - is that like Clear Coat from System Three? I was wondering about soaking the stuff like this. Good idea probably huh?

I'm serious - to ALL of you out there, you got me convinced, I'm going with my local dealer who has ample Marine Ply Fir AB and he has a reputation for QUALITY in all his products. His sheets are stamped Exterior Marine Grade AB 109-PS 1-96. His price is right too. He charges me the same for 3/4 as 1/2 inch - he doesn't even know why. Its $61/sheet.

I AM going to soak it with epoxy, sheath it, paint it with LRU. I'm new to this site and I appreciate you all very much.

[jcimbak]

Hi...

thanks for the message (all of you!)

you mention "penetrating epoxy" - is that like Clear Coat from System Three? I was wondering about soaking the stuff like this. Good idea probably huh?

I'm serious - to ALL of you out there, you got me convinced, I'm going with my local dealer who has ample Marine Ply Fir AB and he has a reputation for QUALITY in all his products. His sheets are stamped Exterior Marine Grade AB 109-PS 1-96. His price is right too. He charges me the same for 3/4 as 1/2 inch - he doesn't even know why. Its $61/sheet.

I AM going to soak it with epoxy, sheath it, paint it with LRU. I'm new to this site and I appreciate you all very much.

[jcimbak]

Hi...

thanks for the message (all of you!)

you mention "penetrating epoxy" - is that like Clear Coat from System Three? I was wondering about soaking the stuff like this. Good idea probably huh?

I'm serious - to ALL of you out there, you got me convinced, I'm going with my local dealer who has ample Marine Ply Fir AB and he has a reputation for QUALITY in all his products. His sheets are stamped Exterior Marine Grade AB 109-PS 1-96. His price is right too. He charges me the same for 3/4 as 1/2 inch - he doesn't even know why. Its $61/sheet.

I AM going to soak it with epoxy, sheath it, paint it with LRU. I'm new to this site and I appreciate you all very much.

[jcimbak]

Hi Mr. Know It All,

You were wondering about THICK transom plywood. Tracy Obrien (my designer www.tracyobrien.com) (http://www.tracyobrien.com)) designed Predator with a 2-1/4 thick transom as follows:

1-1/2 nominal dimension lumber sandwhiched by 3/8" marine ply. I used 2x6 Doug Fir - very well air dried. It was CLEAR of knots. I biscuited them together with West System Epoxy and clamped lightly. The joints solid. Its like a single piece of wood. Then I soaked the fir marine ply and the doug fir and clamped/screwed together. It is solid as a rock. Since I will be cutting this HUGE assembly to size, I picked it up (with the help of my son and THREW it as far as we could so that it would land at a weird angle on the concrete driveway. It went THUD and didn't move. Only a couple edge dents which get trimmed away. I think it can handle anything a motor will do to it under way!

[jcimbak]

Hi Mr. Know It All,

You were wondering about THICK transom plywood. Tracy Obrien (my designer www.tracyobrien.com) (http://www.tracyobrien.com)) designed Predator with a 2-1/4 thick transom as follows:

1-1/2 nominal dimension lumber sandwhiched by 3/8" marine ply. I used 2x6 Doug Fir - very well air dried. It was CLEAR of knots. I biscuited them together with West System Epoxy and clamped lightly. The joints solid. Its like a single piece of wood. Then I soaked the fir marine ply and the doug fir and clamped/screwed together. It is solid as a rock. Since I will be cutting this HUGE assembly to size, I picked it up (with the help of my son and THREW it as far as we could so that it would land at a weird angle on the concrete driveway. It went THUD and didn't move. Only a couple edge dents which get trimmed away. I think it can handle anything a motor will do to it under way!

[jcimbak]

Hi Mr. Know It All,

You were wondering about THICK transom plywood. Tracy Obrien (my designer www.tracyobrien.com) (http://www.tracyobrien.com)) designed Predator with a 2-1/4 thick transom as follows:

1-1/2 nominal dimension lumber sandwhiched by 3/8" marine ply. I used 2x6 Doug Fir - very well air dried. It was CLEAR of knots. I biscuited them together with West System Epoxy and clamped lightly. The joints solid. Its like a single piece of wood. Then I soaked the fir marine ply and the doug fir and clamped/screwed together. It is solid as a rock. Since I will be cutting this HUGE assembly to size, I picked it up (with the help of my son and THREW it as far as we could so that it would land at a weird angle on the concrete driveway. It went THUD and didn't move. Only a couple edge dents which get trimmed away. I think it can handle anything a motor will do to it under way!

[Mr. Know It All]

The boat is a 1961 Lyman 16 foot outboard/runabout. Like Dave F. said the transom is an odd thickness. 1 7/8" thick. Must have been a custom plywood ordered by Lyman or something. The ends of the planking at the transome are solid but look like swiss cheese from excessive re-tightening over the years(lots of screw holes). The transom has rot from a leaky splashwell and needs replaced. A thicker transom would be desirable for a couple of reasons. It would give me a wider edge and more surface for fasteners and glue for the reseal. I could relocate the screw holes and use a more solid part of the original planking for refastening. The original motor is a 61 johnson 75hp 4-stroke that weighs about 400 lbs. It warped the original transom over time so beefing it up might be a real good idea. Will this Plywood sandwich you describe for the transom change the weight of my boat enough to alter the balance or change the handling? I also am seriously thinking of switching to more modern, lighter, lower hp, better fuel effeciency outboard power. This might offset the increase in transom weight. Keeping it original isn't as important as making it functional and safe. I plan to use this boat in Lake Erie not keep it polished up in the garage. One more question and I swear I'll shut up. What kind of ply did YOU use and could I combine mahogany ply sandwiching Doug fir or would that cause adhesion problems? OK....so it's 2 questions.
Peace----> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

The boat is a 1961 Lyman 16 foot outboard/runabout. Like Dave F. said the transom is an odd thickness. 1 7/8" thick. Must have been a custom plywood ordered by Lyman or something. The ends of the planking at the transome are solid but look like swiss cheese from excessive re-tightening over the years(lots of screw holes). The transom has rot from a leaky splashwell and needs replaced. A thicker transom would be desirable for a couple of reasons. It would give me a wider edge and more surface for fasteners and glue for the reseal. I could relocate the screw holes and use a more solid part of the original planking for refastening. The original motor is a 61 johnson 75hp 4-stroke that weighs about 400 lbs. It warped the original transom over time so beefing it up might be a real good idea. Will this Plywood sandwich you describe for the transom change the weight of my boat enough to alter the balance or change the handling? I also am seriously thinking of switching to more modern, lighter, lower hp, better fuel effeciency outboard power. This might offset the increase in transom weight. Keeping it original isn't as important as making it functional and safe. I plan to use this boat in Lake Erie not keep it polished up in the garage. One more question and I swear I'll shut up. What kind of ply did YOU use and could I combine mahogany ply sandwiching Doug fir or would that cause adhesion problems? OK....so it's 2 questions.
Peace----> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

The boat is a 1961 Lyman 16 foot outboard/runabout. Like Dave F. said the transom is an odd thickness. 1 7/8" thick. Must have been a custom plywood ordered by Lyman or something. The ends of the planking at the transome are solid but look like swiss cheese from excessive re-tightening over the years(lots of screw holes). The transom has rot from a leaky splashwell and needs replaced. A thicker transom would be desirable for a couple of reasons. It would give me a wider edge and more surface for fasteners and glue for the reseal. I could relocate the screw holes and use a more solid part of the original planking for refastening. The original motor is a 61 johnson 75hp 4-stroke that weighs about 400 lbs. It warped the original transom over time so beefing it up might be a real good idea. Will this Plywood sandwich you describe for the transom change the weight of my boat enough to alter the balance or change the handling? I also am seriously thinking of switching to more modern, lighter, lower hp, better fuel effeciency outboard power. This might offset the increase in transom weight. Keeping it original isn't as important as making it functional and safe. I plan to use this boat in Lake Erie not keep it polished up in the garage. One more question and I swear I'll shut up. What kind of ply did YOU use and could I combine mahogany ply sandwiching Doug fir or would that cause adhesion problems? OK....so it's 2 questions.
Peace----> Kevin in Ohio

[Dave Fleming]

Kevin, my .02 cents worth for what it's worth. ;)
If you can't get the same thickness ply( no big loss from what you describe the function of) then do what we do with real solid wood build up a frame inside the transom! That's right a solid wood frame made of sections that eliminate as much as possible the ***end grain*** predicament that ply presents. Well glued and screwed and you should be alright.

[Dave Fleming]

Kevin, my .02 cents worth for what it's worth. ;)
If you can't get the same thickness ply( no big loss from what you describe the function of) then do what we do with real solid wood build up a frame inside the transom! That's right a solid wood frame made of sections that eliminate as much as possible the ***end grain*** predicament that ply presents. Well glued and screwed and you should be alright.

[Dave Fleming]

Kevin, my .02 cents worth for what it's worth. ;)
If you can't get the same thickness ply( no big loss from what you describe the function of) then do what we do with real solid wood build up a frame inside the transom! That's right a solid wood frame made of sections that eliminate as much as possible the ***end grain*** predicament that ply presents. Well glued and screwed and you should be alright.

[Mr. Know It All]

Thanks for the sound advise smile.gif

[Mr. Know It All]

Thanks for the sound advise smile.gif

[Mr. Know It All]

Thanks for the sound advise smile.gif

[NormMessinger]

Memph, (may I call you Memph?)be careful sanding fir plywood. You'll sand off the soft spring wood and leave the hard summer wood standing proud. Even if you glass it you'll have a time of it getting rid of the grain imprint.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Memph, (may I call you Memph?)be careful sanding fir plywood. You'll sand off the soft spring wood and leave the hard summer wood standing proud. Even if you glass it you'll have a time of it getting rid of the grain imprint.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Memph, (may I call you Memph?)be careful sanding fir plywood. You'll sand off the soft spring wood and leave the hard summer wood standing proud. Even if you glass it you'll have a time of it getting rid of the grain imprint.

--Norm

[Mr. Know It All]

This Lyman has very little checking in the Doug Fir Planking from 1961 but, it does show some areas where there is some minor checking. Repairs have been made with (epoxy?) fairing compound by the previous owner. I left them filled and sanded them smooth with the 99% paintless planking. Next I'm reefing the seams and re-clinching the fasteners. Screws into the oak frames (tightened or replaced) and clinch nails in between (hammer& punch outside with bucking Iron held inside). Can anyone suggest something better than 3M 5200 for sealing the seams?
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

This Lyman has very little checking in the Doug Fir Planking from 1961 but, it does show some areas where there is some minor checking. Repairs have been made with (epoxy?) fairing compound by the previous owner. I left them filled and sanded them smooth with the 99% paintless planking. Next I'm reefing the seams and re-clinching the fasteners. Screws into the oak frames (tightened or replaced) and clinch nails in between (hammer& punch outside with bucking Iron held inside). Can anyone suggest something better than 3M 5200 for sealing the seams?
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

This Lyman has very little checking in the Doug Fir Planking from 1961 but, it does show some areas where there is some minor checking. Repairs have been made with (epoxy?) fairing compound by the previous owner. I left them filled and sanded them smooth with the 99% paintless planking. Next I'm reefing the seams and re-clinching the fasteners. Screws into the oak frames (tightened or replaced) and clinch nails in between (hammer& punch outside with bucking Iron held inside). Can anyone suggest something better than 3M 5200 for sealing the seams?
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Scott Rosen]

What Norm said.

I'm finishing up a removable fir ply insert for the v-berth. Before I sanded it, I slathered it but good in a catsup-like mixture of epoxy and micro-balloons, figuring that if I built it up enough and then sanded it fair, I would have a glass-smooth surface for painting.

Ha! After all that, I can still see the hard grain standing proud. If I were to do it over again, I'd get a different kind of ply, maybe mohagony, that would take paint better. The extra cost would be more than offset by the savings in time, epoxy, micro-ballons, glass and sandpaper.

[Scott Rosen]

What Norm said.

I'm finishing up a removable fir ply insert for the v-berth. Before I sanded it, I slathered it but good in a catsup-like mixture of epoxy and micro-balloons, figuring that if I built it up enough and then sanded it fair, I would have a glass-smooth surface for painting.

Ha! After all that, I can still see the hard grain standing proud. If I were to do it over again, I'd get a different kind of ply, maybe mohagony, that would take paint better. The extra cost would be more than offset by the savings in time, epoxy, micro-ballons, glass and sandpaper.

[Scott Rosen]

What Norm said.

I'm finishing up a removable fir ply insert for the v-berth. Before I sanded it, I slathered it but good in a catsup-like mixture of epoxy and micro-balloons, figuring that if I built it up enough and then sanded it fair, I would have a glass-smooth surface for painting.

Ha! After all that, I can still see the hard grain standing proud. If I were to do it over again, I'd get a different kind of ply, maybe mohagony, that would take paint better. The extra cost would be more than offset by the savings in time, epoxy, micro-ballons, glass and sandpaper.

[Memphis Mike]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
Memph, (may I call you Memph?)be careful sanding fir plywood. You'll sand off the soft spring wood and leave the hard summer wood standing proud. Even if you glass it you'll have a time of it getting rid of the grain imprint.

--NormNorm, I'm going to glass the hull. Should I
not sand at all? I just want to paint the
inside. What should I do to prepare it?

[Memphis Mike]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
Memph, (may I call you Memph?)be careful sanding fir plywood. You'll sand off the soft spring wood and leave the hard summer wood standing proud. Even if you glass it you'll have a time of it getting rid of the grain imprint.

--NormNorm, I'm going to glass the hull. Should I
not sand at all? I just want to paint the
inside. What should I do to prepare it?

[Memphis Mike]

Originally posted by NormMessinger:
Memph, (may I call you Memph?)be careful sanding fir plywood. You'll sand off the soft spring wood and leave the hard summer wood standing proud. Even if you glass it you'll have a time of it getting rid of the grain imprint.

--NormNorm, I'm going to glass the hull. Should I
not sand at all? I just want to paint the
inside. What should I do to prepare it?

[NormMessinger]

Don't bother to sand anything you are going to glass. If you are just going to paint the interior, no epoxy, I'll defer to others for expert experience. I'd glass it, most likely, depending on the design and stuff. If just paint I'd probably use a high build primer and sand it, depending on what I've read here most recently.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Don't bother to sand anything you are going to glass. If you are just going to paint the interior, no epoxy, I'll defer to others for expert experience. I'd glass it, most likely, depending on the design and stuff. If just paint I'd probably use a high build primer and sand it, depending on what I've read here most recently.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Don't bother to sand anything you are going to glass. If you are just going to paint the interior, no epoxy, I'll defer to others for expert experience. I'd glass it, most likely, depending on the design and stuff. If just paint I'd probably use a high build primer and sand it, depending on what I've read here most recently.

--Norm

[Memphis Mike]

Norm. Its Bolger's 16ft. Windsprint.
I wasn't going to glass it until I
found out about the checking problem
with fir.

I want a good finish on the inside.
How much sanding can I get by with
there? I usually start with 80 and finish
up with 220 grade. Is that a no no
with fir?

[Memphis Mike]

Norm. Its Bolger's 16ft. Windsprint.
I wasn't going to glass it until I
found out about the checking problem
with fir.

I want a good finish on the inside.
How much sanding can I get by with
there? I usually start with 80 and finish
up with 220 grade. Is that a no no
with fir?

[Memphis Mike]

Norm. Its Bolger's 16ft. Windsprint.
I wasn't going to glass it until I
found out about the checking problem
with fir.

I want a good finish on the inside.
How much sanding can I get by with
there? I usually start with 80 and finish
up with 220 grade. Is that a no no
with fir?

[NormMessinger]

Well, I'd have to see your wood to be sure but the stuff I see around here, I would not sand at all. If you sand fir ply you will cut away the soft wood and barely scratch the summer wood. Put on a coat or two of high build primer and then and only then begin to sand. That way you'll have a surface of uniform hardness. CPES can't hurt and may just reduce the tendency to check a bit. My experience here is limited to two fir boats, one without CPES and one with, neither of which gets much exposure.

Come on, Guys. If I'm the only one advising Memph how's he supposed to maintain an adequate level of confusion.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Well, I'd have to see your wood to be sure but the stuff I see around here, I would not sand at all. If you sand fir ply you will cut away the soft wood and barely scratch the summer wood. Put on a coat or two of high build primer and then and only then begin to sand. That way you'll have a surface of uniform hardness. CPES can't hurt and may just reduce the tendency to check a bit. My experience here is limited to two fir boats, one without CPES and one with, neither of which gets much exposure.

Come on, Guys. If I'm the only one advising Memph how's he supposed to maintain an adequate level of confusion.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Well, I'd have to see your wood to be sure but the stuff I see around here, I would not sand at all. If you sand fir ply you will cut away the soft wood and barely scratch the summer wood. Put on a coat or two of high build primer and then and only then begin to sand. That way you'll have a surface of uniform hardness. CPES can't hurt and may just reduce the tendency to check a bit. My experience here is limited to two fir boats, one without CPES and one with, neither of which gets much exposure.

Come on, Guys. If I'm the only one advising Memph how's he supposed to maintain an adequate level of confusion.

--Norm

[Wayne Jeffers]

I built a plywood skiff with glass on the outside and on the sole. The interior sides, I slathered with epoxy, but no glass. The interior sides checked.

I've heard that soaking fir ply in raw linseed oil will before priming and painting will prevent checking. I've just built another boat that I coated with oil before finishing.

I'll report the results.

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

I built a plywood skiff with glass on the outside and on the sole. The interior sides, I slathered with epoxy, but no glass. The interior sides checked.

I've heard that soaking fir ply in raw linseed oil will before priming and painting will prevent checking. I've just built another boat that I coated with oil before finishing.

I'll report the results.

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

I built a plywood skiff with glass on the outside and on the sole. The interior sides, I slathered with epoxy, but no glass. The interior sides checked.

I've heard that soaking fir ply in raw linseed oil will before priming and painting will prevent checking. I've just built another boat that I coated with oil before finishing.

I'll report the results.

Wayne

[Mr. Know It All]

I've also heard it's OK to CPES inside above the water line. CPES will help the paint(or varnish) bond better with the wood. Below the water line inside just paint. I'm using the original Lyman Sand Tan paint. For the exterior hull CPES and high build primer then enamel gloss white. Fair sand and scuff between coats.Thats the plan anyway :D

[Mr. Know It All]

I've also heard it's OK to CPES inside above the water line. CPES will help the paint(or varnish) bond better with the wood. Below the water line inside just paint. I'm using the original Lyman Sand Tan paint. For the exterior hull CPES and high build primer then enamel gloss white. Fair sand and scuff between coats.Thats the plan anyway :D

[Mr. Know It All]

I've also heard it's OK to CPES inside above the water line. CPES will help the paint(or varnish) bond better with the wood. Below the water line inside just paint. I'm using the original Lyman Sand Tan paint. For the exterior hull CPES and high build primer then enamel gloss white. Fair sand and scuff between coats.Thats the plan anyway :D

[NormMessinger]

Why no CPES below the waterline inside?

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Why no CPES below the waterline inside?

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Why no CPES below the waterline inside?

--Norm

[bainbridgeisland]

Lots of comments about checking fir ply here. If your boat is kept in your barn, garage or carport (out of the sun), you probably will not have problems with checking. I have seen 15 year old sailing dinghies in perfect condition, original paint, garage kept.

[bainbridgeisland]

Lots of comments about checking fir ply here. If your boat is kept in your barn, garage or carport (out of the sun), you probably will not have problems with checking. I have seen 15 year old sailing dinghies in perfect condition, original paint, garage kept.

[bainbridgeisland]

Lots of comments about checking fir ply here. If your boat is kept in your barn, garage or carport (out of the sun), you probably will not have problems with checking. I have seen 15 year old sailing dinghies in perfect condition, original paint, garage kept.

[Mr. Know It All]

I've had it explained to me that since my boat will live on a trailer and be dried out after each use, it's better if the bilge can breathe. If this is not so....please advise. I should explain that my Lyman has a raised plywood floor that I will remove when stored for the purpose of keeping the bilge dry and hopefully rot free. Despite my nickname I am wrong quite frequently and if so hope to learn the right way to proceed before I do anything stupid :D
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

I've had it explained to me that since my boat will live on a trailer and be dried out after each use, it's better if the bilge can breathe. If this is not so....please advise. I should explain that my Lyman has a raised plywood floor that I will remove when stored for the purpose of keeping the bilge dry and hopefully rot free. Despite my nickname I am wrong quite frequently and if so hope to learn the right way to proceed before I do anything stupid :D
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[Mr. Know It All]

I've had it explained to me that since my boat will live on a trailer and be dried out after each use, it's better if the bilge can breathe. If this is not so....please advise. I should explain that my Lyman has a raised plywood floor that I will remove when stored for the purpose of keeping the bilge dry and hopefully rot free. Despite my nickname I am wrong quite frequently and if so hope to learn the right way to proceed before I do anything stupid :D
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

[NormMessinger]

Cleek once had words of wisdom for we who start our messages, "Alls I know is what I read but..." However....

I read a lot of stuff about CPES on The Forum that does not conform to my preconceived misconceptions about it, formed when I read Smith's literature long ago. That, coupled with the concept that wood can breath through a good coat of paint just does not add up. Don't "they" say one advantage of CPES is that it allows the wood to breath? Does paint? What the heck does "breath" mean in this context. Wouldn't the wood breath better with nothing on it? On the other hand it the wood is coated with something to keep moisture out would "breathing" be necessary? All I know is how I interpret what I read here but it sure seems like if CPES is good the whole interior should be coated.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Cleek once had words of wisdom for we who start our messages, "Alls I know is what I read but..." However....

I read a lot of stuff about CPES on The Forum that does not conform to my preconceived misconceptions about it, formed when I read Smith's literature long ago. That, coupled with the concept that wood can breath through a good coat of paint just does not add up. Don't "they" say one advantage of CPES is that it allows the wood to breath? Does paint? What the heck does "breath" mean in this context. Wouldn't the wood breath better with nothing on it? On the other hand it the wood is coated with something to keep moisture out would "breathing" be necessary? All I know is how I interpret what I read here but it sure seems like if CPES is good the whole interior should be coated.

--Norm

[NormMessinger]

Cleek once had words of wisdom for we who start our messages, "Alls I know is what I read but..." However....

I read a lot of stuff about CPES on The Forum that does not conform to my preconceived misconceptions about it, formed when I read Smith's literature long ago. That, coupled with the concept that wood can breath through a good coat of paint just does not add up. Don't "they" say one advantage of CPES is that it allows the wood to breath? Does paint? What the heck does "breath" mean in this context. Wouldn't the wood breath better with nothing on it? On the other hand it the wood is coated with something to keep moisture out would "breathing" be necessary? All I know is how I interpret what I read here but it sure seems like if CPES is good the whole interior should be coated.

--Norm

[Scott Rosen]

I used CPES on my plywood dinghy above and below the waterline, inside and out. It works great.

[Scott Rosen]

I used CPES on my plywood dinghy above and below the waterline, inside and out. It works great.

[Scott Rosen]

I used CPES on my plywood dinghy above and below the waterline, inside and out. It works great.

[capt jake]

I want a good finish on the inside.
How much sanding can I get by with
there? I usually start with 80 and finish
up with 220 grade. Is that a no no
with fir? MM, DF doesn't sand worth a damn. The growth rings vary from hard to soft. The more you sand, the worse the rippling effect. Coat it with epoxy, and you can minimize this to an extent. If you are going to glass, do all of you final fairing AFTER the glass is laid, of coousre you have to do the initial prep work to get it quazi 'smooth'. smile.gif

[capt jake]

I want a good finish on the inside.
How much sanding can I get by with
there? I usually start with 80 and finish
up with 220 grade. Is that a no no
with fir? MM, DF doesn't sand worth a damn. The growth rings vary from hard to soft. The more you sand, the worse the rippling effect. Coat it with epoxy, and you can minimize this to an extent. If you are going to glass, do all of you final fairing AFTER the glass is laid, of coousre you have to do the initial prep work to get it quazi 'smooth'. smile.gif

[capt jake]

I want a good finish on the inside.
How much sanding can I get by with
there? I usually start with 80 and finish
up with 220 grade. Is that a no no
with fir? MM, DF doesn't sand worth a damn. The growth rings vary from hard to soft. The more you sand, the worse the rippling effect. Coat it with epoxy, and you can minimize this to an extent. If you are going to glass, do all of you final fairing AFTER the glass is laid, of coousre you have to do the initial prep work to get it quazi 'smooth'. smile.gif

[On Vacation]

CPES, I am so tired of reading about this stuff. Without sounding like a smart arsss, why is it that it is so good, but you have to keep using it and keep using it and keep using it and still you have to keep using it and fixin, and patching, and fixing bad spots and fixing and replacing parts that have gone away? Please help someone that is looking to not be dumb another day?????

[On Vacation]

CPES, I am so tired of reading about this stuff. Without sounding like a smart arsss, why is it that it is so good, but you have to keep using it and keep using it and keep using it and still you have to keep using it and fixin, and patching, and fixing bad spots and fixing and replacing parts that have gone away? Please help someone that is looking to not be dumb another day?????

[On Vacation]

CPES, I am so tired of reading about this stuff. Without sounding like a smart arsss, why is it that it is so good, but you have to keep using it and keep using it and keep using it and still you have to keep using it and fixin, and patching, and fixing bad spots and fixing and replacing parts that have gone away? Please help someone that is looking to not be dumb another day?????

[Scott Rosen]

Oyster, I use CPES mostly as an undercoat when I'm painting. It's the sealer coat that I put on the bare wood. It's the best sealer I've used, bar none. It's not a substitute for epoxy encapsulation or glue or a thick coating. I get outstanding adhesion of the paint when I use CPES as the sealer. First CPES, then a filler/primer to fill the grain, then the finish coats.

[Scott Rosen]

Oyster, I use CPES mostly as an undercoat when I'm painting. It's the sealer coat that I put on the bare wood. It's the best sealer I've used, bar none. It's not a substitute for epoxy encapsulation or glue or a thick coating. I get outstanding adhesion of the paint when I use CPES as the sealer. First CPES, then a filler/primer to fill the grain, then the finish coats.

[Scott Rosen]

Oyster, I use CPES mostly as an undercoat when I'm painting. It's the sealer coat that I put on the bare wood. It's the best sealer I've used, bar none. It's not a substitute for epoxy encapsulation or glue or a thick coating. I get outstanding adhesion of the paint when I use CPES as the sealer. First CPES, then a filler/primer to fill the grain, then the finish coats.