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MICHAEL S
12-17-2003, 12:38 PM
I am looking to build the Shellback Dinghy from the WoodenBoat Magazine plans. Not only will this be my first boatbuilding project but I also live in Colorado where materials and resources for boat building are hard to come by. The only locally available marine plywood is a fir plywood.
I have the lumberyard looking for any specifications or ratings of the plywood they have in stock but as of yet I have no information.
My question to you is: is marine fir plywood a useable substitute for the mahogany plywood recommended by WoodenBoat for a weekend lake boat?

MICHAEL S
12-17-2003, 12:38 PM
I am looking to build the Shellback Dinghy from the WoodenBoat Magazine plans. Not only will this be my first boatbuilding project but I also live in Colorado where materials and resources for boat building are hard to come by. The only locally available marine plywood is a fir plywood.
I have the lumberyard looking for any specifications or ratings of the plywood they have in stock but as of yet I have no information.
My question to you is: is marine fir plywood a useable substitute for the mahogany plywood recommended by WoodenBoat for a weekend lake boat?

MICHAEL S
12-17-2003, 12:38 PM
I am looking to build the Shellback Dinghy from the WoodenBoat Magazine plans. Not only will this be my first boatbuilding project but I also live in Colorado where materials and resources for boat building are hard to come by. The only locally available marine plywood is a fir plywood.
I have the lumberyard looking for any specifications or ratings of the plywood they have in stock but as of yet I have no information.
My question to you is: is marine fir plywood a useable substitute for the mahogany plywood recommended by WoodenBoat for a weekend lake boat?

On Vacation
12-17-2003, 01:27 PM
Several places to check for some good fir plywood, ask your local cabinet shop if their supplier for plywood, has AB fir plyood. Depending on the finish you are attempting to end up with, most of the time at first, in these projects, we wish for an absolute perfect everything. You state you are a first time builder. Consider a trial run with some less expensive woods, such as the fir plywood. Learn about layout of hull form. You can even do this with luan for templetes and learning if you decide to order in the goodies. There is around 20 dollars and on up difference between good 1/4" and 3/8" AB fir plywood. Try to find some five plywood plywood. This is important in todays' plywoods. A lot of the thinner ones have a bulk inner core, and thin faces, creating weak areas in a lot of the cheapers ones. Resoursinol glues in exterior plywoods is waterproof glue. Some of the imports have a clear glue, but will work for your job. The most expensive is BS 1088 standards. But as in many cases these can come in a wide range of quality.

[ 12-17-2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

On Vacation
12-17-2003, 01:27 PM
Several places to check for some good fir plywood, ask your local cabinet shop if their supplier for plywood, has AB fir plyood. Depending on the finish you are attempting to end up with, most of the time at first, in these projects, we wish for an absolute perfect everything. You state you are a first time builder. Consider a trial run with some less expensive woods, such as the fir plywood. Learn about layout of hull form. You can even do this with luan for templetes and learning if you decide to order in the goodies. There is around 20 dollars and on up difference between good 1/4" and 3/8" AB fir plywood. Try to find some five plywood plywood. This is important in todays' plywoods. A lot of the thinner ones have a bulk inner core, and thin faces, creating weak areas in a lot of the cheapers ones. Resoursinol glues in exterior plywoods is waterproof glue. Some of the imports have a clear glue, but will work for your job. The most expensive is BS 1088 standards. But as in many cases these can come in a wide range of quality.

[ 12-17-2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

On Vacation
12-17-2003, 01:27 PM
Several places to check for some good fir plywood, ask your local cabinet shop if their supplier for plywood, has AB fir plyood. Depending on the finish you are attempting to end up with, most of the time at first, in these projects, we wish for an absolute perfect everything. You state you are a first time builder. Consider a trial run with some less expensive woods, such as the fir plywood. Learn about layout of hull form. You can even do this with luan for templetes and learning if you decide to order in the goodies. There is around 20 dollars and on up difference between good 1/4" and 3/8" AB fir plywood. Try to find some five plywood plywood. This is important in todays' plywoods. A lot of the thinner ones have a bulk inner core, and thin faces, creating weak areas in a lot of the cheapers ones. Resoursinol glues in exterior plywoods is waterproof glue. Some of the imports have a clear glue, but will work for your job. The most expensive is BS 1088 standards. But as in many cases these can come in a wide range of quality.

[ 12-17-2003, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

NormMessinger
12-17-2003, 01:47 PM
An inexpensive alternative to fir plywood is SuperPly (http://www.rfpco.com/ply/super.htm) . It has tropical hardwood face veneers which eliminated the wild grain pattern of fir. It suffers a little from interior voids but I think not as much as non-marine fir. The interior plies are fir but the face veneers are not paper thin. I found the local supplier by calling Roseburg.

I used luan for a kayak but we were lucky to find some with thicker face veneers. Most of it has paper thin face veneers. It might be mission adequate for cheap, quick and expendable but if I couldn't afford BS1088 plywood SuperPly would be my second choice.

NormMessinger
12-17-2003, 01:47 PM
An inexpensive alternative to fir plywood is SuperPly (http://www.rfpco.com/ply/super.htm) . It has tropical hardwood face veneers which eliminated the wild grain pattern of fir. It suffers a little from interior voids but I think not as much as non-marine fir. The interior plies are fir but the face veneers are not paper thin. I found the local supplier by calling Roseburg.

I used luan for a kayak but we were lucky to find some with thicker face veneers. Most of it has paper thin face veneers. It might be mission adequate for cheap, quick and expendable but if I couldn't afford BS1088 plywood SuperPly would be my second choice.

NormMessinger
12-17-2003, 01:47 PM
An inexpensive alternative to fir plywood is SuperPly (http://www.rfpco.com/ply/super.htm) . It has tropical hardwood face veneers which eliminated the wild grain pattern of fir. It suffers a little from interior voids but I think not as much as non-marine fir. The interior plies are fir but the face veneers are not paper thin. I found the local supplier by calling Roseburg.

I used luan for a kayak but we were lucky to find some with thicker face veneers. Most of it has paper thin face veneers. It might be mission adequate for cheap, quick and expendable but if I couldn't afford BS1088 plywood SuperPly would be my second choice.

On Vacation
12-17-2003, 02:04 PM
Norm, read again. tongue.gif smile.gif Luan only for batting practice. ;)

[ 12-17-2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

On Vacation
12-17-2003, 02:04 PM
Norm, read again. tongue.gif smile.gif Luan only for batting practice. ;)

[ 12-17-2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

On Vacation
12-17-2003, 02:04 PM
Norm, read again. tongue.gif smile.gif Luan only for batting practice. ;)

[ 12-17-2003, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

Jon Etheredge
12-17-2003, 04:39 PM
is marine fir plywood a useable substitute for the mahogany plywood recommended by WoodenBoat for a weekend lake boat?
Yes.

There are 2 drawbacks to marine fir ply:

1) It is easier to cut scarf joints in occume (okuome) or mahogany marine ply than in fir marine ply.

2) The surface of fir marine ply tends to "check" or develop surface cracks that make the finish look bad. The checking is generally an aesthetic concern rather than a structural problem. There are various methods (like coating with epoxy and glass) that attempt to stop the checking. The simplest and cheapest way to remedy the checking problem is to use plywood that is made from a different material.

You can order marine grade plywood made from occume veneer from a number of suppliers. They will ship it to your doorstep for a fee. Once you try occume ply I bet you will wonder why you ever used anything else!

Jon Etheredge
12-17-2003, 04:39 PM
is marine fir plywood a useable substitute for the mahogany plywood recommended by WoodenBoat for a weekend lake boat?
Yes.

There are 2 drawbacks to marine fir ply:

1) It is easier to cut scarf joints in occume (okuome) or mahogany marine ply than in fir marine ply.

2) The surface of fir marine ply tends to "check" or develop surface cracks that make the finish look bad. The checking is generally an aesthetic concern rather than a structural problem. There are various methods (like coating with epoxy and glass) that attempt to stop the checking. The simplest and cheapest way to remedy the checking problem is to use plywood that is made from a different material.

You can order marine grade plywood made from occume veneer from a number of suppliers. They will ship it to your doorstep for a fee. Once you try occume ply I bet you will wonder why you ever used anything else!

Jon Etheredge
12-17-2003, 04:39 PM
is marine fir plywood a useable substitute for the mahogany plywood recommended by WoodenBoat for a weekend lake boat?
Yes.

There are 2 drawbacks to marine fir ply:

1) It is easier to cut scarf joints in occume (okuome) or mahogany marine ply than in fir marine ply.

2) The surface of fir marine ply tends to "check" or develop surface cracks that make the finish look bad. The checking is generally an aesthetic concern rather than a structural problem. There are various methods (like coating with epoxy and glass) that attempt to stop the checking. The simplest and cheapest way to remedy the checking problem is to use plywood that is made from a different material.

You can order marine grade plywood made from occume veneer from a number of suppliers. They will ship it to your doorstep for a fee. Once you try occume ply I bet you will wonder why you ever used anything else!

Venchka
12-17-2003, 05:25 PM
If you can't get the Superply Norm mentioned, try for good quality double faced MDO. It's exterior grade fir plywood with a smooth layer of something bonded to both face veneers. Sign makers use it. It's only slightly more expensive than plain doug-fir AB plywood. GOOGLE can explain.

Olympic Panel MDO (http://www.olypanel.com/sign_making/signal.htm)

[ 12-18-2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

Venchka
12-17-2003, 05:25 PM
If you can't get the Superply Norm mentioned, try for good quality double faced MDO. It's exterior grade fir plywood with a smooth layer of something bonded to both face veneers. Sign makers use it. It's only slightly more expensive than plain doug-fir AB plywood. GOOGLE can explain.

Olympic Panel MDO (http://www.olypanel.com/sign_making/signal.htm)

[ 12-18-2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

Venchka
12-17-2003, 05:25 PM
If you can't get the Superply Norm mentioned, try for good quality double faced MDO. It's exterior grade fir plywood with a smooth layer of something bonded to both face veneers. Sign makers use it. It's only slightly more expensive than plain doug-fir AB plywood. GOOGLE can explain.

Olympic Panel MDO (http://www.olypanel.com/sign_making/signal.htm)

[ 12-18-2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Venchka ]

gary porter
12-17-2003, 05:58 PM
Look into buying Okume from soneone like Edensaw and though it will be more expensive you'll not regret it. Any of the above will work and you'll end up with a good boat but the Okume will give you the nicest end product. Its also easier to work with and easier to finish nicely.
Gary

gary porter
12-17-2003, 05:58 PM
Look into buying Okume from soneone like Edensaw and though it will be more expensive you'll not regret it. Any of the above will work and you'll end up with a good boat but the Okume will give you the nicest end product. Its also easier to work with and easier to finish nicely.
Gary

gary porter
12-17-2003, 05:58 PM
Look into buying Okume from soneone like Edensaw and though it will be more expensive you'll not regret it. Any of the above will work and you'll end up with a good boat but the Okume will give you the nicest end product. Its also easier to work with and easier to finish nicely.
Gary

Steve Lansdowne
12-17-2003, 06:21 PM
Use the cheap stuff if you're going to to a slap-dash job on the boat and don't expect it to last more than a few years. Use the good stuff if you're going to take pride in your workmanship and keep the boat for a while as a creation you'll be proud to say, "I built her!"

Steve Lansdowne
12-17-2003, 06:21 PM
Use the cheap stuff if you're going to to a slap-dash job on the boat and don't expect it to last more than a few years. Use the good stuff if you're going to take pride in your workmanship and keep the boat for a while as a creation you'll be proud to say, "I built her!"

Steve Lansdowne
12-17-2003, 06:21 PM
Use the cheap stuff if you're going to to a slap-dash job on the boat and don't expect it to last more than a few years. Use the good stuff if you're going to take pride in your workmanship and keep the boat for a while as a creation you'll be proud to say, "I built her!"

B_B
12-17-2003, 08:39 PM
in my limited experience fir faced ply is not a good choice for boatbuilding unless you were to cover the exposed plywood with fibreglass - the grain pattern shows through any paint job and on one boat I built the face veneers keep checking - no amount of maintenance seems to have kept the checking in check (on the other hand the boat was in an extremely dry climate...a lot of boatbuilders have had good results so take my post for what its worth - merely opinion.)

B_B
12-17-2003, 08:39 PM
in my limited experience fir faced ply is not a good choice for boatbuilding unless you were to cover the exposed plywood with fibreglass - the grain pattern shows through any paint job and on one boat I built the face veneers keep checking - no amount of maintenance seems to have kept the checking in check (on the other hand the boat was in an extremely dry climate...a lot of boatbuilders have had good results so take my post for what its worth - merely opinion.)

B_B
12-17-2003, 08:39 PM
in my limited experience fir faced ply is not a good choice for boatbuilding unless you were to cover the exposed plywood with fibreglass - the grain pattern shows through any paint job and on one boat I built the face veneers keep checking - no amount of maintenance seems to have kept the checking in check (on the other hand the boat was in an extremely dry climate...a lot of boatbuilders have had good results so take my post for what its worth - merely opinion.)

B_B
12-17-2003, 08:40 PM
oh, and GOOD LUCK, their ain't nothin like sailing a boat you built! :D

B_B
12-17-2003, 08:40 PM
oh, and GOOD LUCK, their ain't nothin like sailing a boat you built! :D

B_B
12-17-2003, 08:40 PM
oh, and GOOD LUCK, their ain't nothin like sailing a boat you built! :D

Venchka
12-17-2003, 10:19 PM
If you decide to "import" plywood from Washington, you ought to talk to Flounder Bay Lumber also. They sell high quality marine plywood. Shipping isn't too bad.

Venchka
12-17-2003, 10:19 PM
If you decide to "import" plywood from Washington, you ought to talk to Flounder Bay Lumber also. They sell high quality marine plywood. Shipping isn't too bad.

Venchka
12-17-2003, 10:19 PM
If you decide to "import" plywood from Washington, you ought to talk to Flounder Bay Lumber also. They sell high quality marine plywood. Shipping isn't too bad.

JimD
12-18-2003, 01:12 AM
For me fir is fine, I think the checking factor is overrated. When I work with sheet plywood (which is all my boats so far) I fiberglass the entire 4'X8' sheet first, then cut it up. In the long run it doesn't amount to significant wasteage and the glass sheath makes the wood easier to saw and work with including preventing checking

JimD
12-18-2003, 01:12 AM
For me fir is fine, I think the checking factor is overrated. When I work with sheet plywood (which is all my boats so far) I fiberglass the entire 4'X8' sheet first, then cut it up. In the long run it doesn't amount to significant wasteage and the glass sheath makes the wood easier to saw and work with including preventing checking

JimD
12-18-2003, 01:12 AM
For me fir is fine, I think the checking factor is overrated. When I work with sheet plywood (which is all my boats so far) I fiberglass the entire 4'X8' sheet first, then cut it up. In the long run it doesn't amount to significant wasteage and the glass sheath makes the wood easier to saw and work with including preventing checking

gert
12-18-2003, 10:16 AM
they both chek, the Okume checks are smaller cause the face veneers are thinner, ther's no patches and it paints smoother

[ 12-18-2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: gert ]

gert
12-18-2003, 10:16 AM
they both chek, the Okume checks are smaller cause the face veneers are thinner, ther's no patches and it paints smoother

[ 12-18-2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: gert ]

gert
12-18-2003, 10:16 AM
they both chek, the Okume checks are smaller cause the face veneers are thinner, ther's no patches and it paints smoother

[ 12-18-2003, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: gert ]

Venchka
12-18-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by JimD:
...In the long run it doesn't amount to significant wasteage and the glass sheath makes the wood easier to saw and work with including preventing checkingWhy not just start with double sided MDO? Or do you need the slight strength advantage of 'glass? Don't you have to fair/finish/sand the 'glass to make it smooth? Adding 'glass sounds like more work and more $$$'s to me.

Venchka
12-18-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by JimD:
...In the long run it doesn't amount to significant wasteage and the glass sheath makes the wood easier to saw and work with including preventing checkingWhy not just start with double sided MDO? Or do you need the slight strength advantage of 'glass? Don't you have to fair/finish/sand the 'glass to make it smooth? Adding 'glass sounds like more work and more $$$'s to me.

Venchka
12-18-2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by JimD:
...In the long run it doesn't amount to significant wasteage and the glass sheath makes the wood easier to saw and work with including preventing checkingWhy not just start with double sided MDO? Or do you need the slight strength advantage of 'glass? Don't you have to fair/finish/sand the 'glass to make it smooth? Adding 'glass sounds like more work and more $$$'s to me.

Keith Wilson
12-18-2003, 06:13 PM
The Shellback's planking is 1/4" or 6mm ply. The bottom is 3/8 - 9mm, the transom is 3/4, and the rudder and daggerboard are 1/2", if I remember correctly. It's certainly not designed to make economical use of standard 4 x 8 sheets.

The main problem with marine fir is that the surface will often check badly, which is ugly and doesn't do much for the intergrity and waterproofness of the paint film. Epoxy alone won't stop it; epoxy and glass will. It also doesn't finish bright well at all. It is certainly strong and rot-resistant enough, better than okoume in this respect. Fir is not quite as nice to work as tropical hardwood ply, but it's not too bad. I wouldn't use it in such a pretty little boat because of the checking.

Several possibilities:

Use fir and glass everything. This is tedious and would add a lot of weight to a small boat.

Use MDO Fir. MDO overlay prevents checking, and you can't finish it bright so that's not an issue. MDO plywood is not technically marine grade, although it looks just about as good as the marine fir. Also, I have never seen 1/4" MDO; 3/8 is the minimum. Using MDO for the thicker stuff would be reasonable.

Superply looks like good stuff too, although it's technically not marine grade, if you can get it in Colorado for a reasonable price. I think it's available in 1/4".

Or you can just bite the bullet and order marine ply, okoune or meranti or whatever. The BS6566 stuff is essentially the same except the face veneers are a lot thinner.

The trouble with ordering a small amount of plywood is that the shipping per sheet is pretty high. Anything you can get locally (usually including special orders from local lumberyards if they can combine shipments) will probably be cheaper than anything you order from elsewhere.

Keith Wilson
12-18-2003, 06:13 PM
The Shellback's planking is 1/4" or 6mm ply. The bottom is 3/8 - 9mm, the transom is 3/4, and the rudder and daggerboard are 1/2", if I remember correctly. It's certainly not designed to make economical use of standard 4 x 8 sheets.

The main problem with marine fir is that the surface will often check badly, which is ugly and doesn't do much for the intergrity and waterproofness of the paint film. Epoxy alone won't stop it; epoxy and glass will. It also doesn't finish bright well at all. It is certainly strong and rot-resistant enough, better than okoume in this respect. Fir is not quite as nice to work as tropical hardwood ply, but it's not too bad. I wouldn't use it in such a pretty little boat because of the checking.

Several possibilities:

Use fir and glass everything. This is tedious and would add a lot of weight to a small boat.

Use MDO Fir. MDO overlay prevents checking, and you can't finish it bright so that's not an issue. MDO plywood is not technically marine grade, although it looks just about as good as the marine fir. Also, I have never seen 1/4" MDO; 3/8 is the minimum. Using MDO for the thicker stuff would be reasonable.

Superply looks like good stuff too, although it's technically not marine grade, if you can get it in Colorado for a reasonable price. I think it's available in 1/4".

Or you can just bite the bullet and order marine ply, okoune or meranti or whatever. The BS6566 stuff is essentially the same except the face veneers are a lot thinner.

The trouble with ordering a small amount of plywood is that the shipping per sheet is pretty high. Anything you can get locally (usually including special orders from local lumberyards if they can combine shipments) will probably be cheaper than anything you order from elsewhere.

Keith Wilson
12-18-2003, 06:13 PM
The Shellback's planking is 1/4" or 6mm ply. The bottom is 3/8 - 9mm, the transom is 3/4, and the rudder and daggerboard are 1/2", if I remember correctly. It's certainly not designed to make economical use of standard 4 x 8 sheets.

The main problem with marine fir is that the surface will often check badly, which is ugly and doesn't do much for the intergrity and waterproofness of the paint film. Epoxy alone won't stop it; epoxy and glass will. It also doesn't finish bright well at all. It is certainly strong and rot-resistant enough, better than okoume in this respect. Fir is not quite as nice to work as tropical hardwood ply, but it's not too bad. I wouldn't use it in such a pretty little boat because of the checking.

Several possibilities:

Use fir and glass everything. This is tedious and would add a lot of weight to a small boat.

Use MDO Fir. MDO overlay prevents checking, and you can't finish it bright so that's not an issue. MDO plywood is not technically marine grade, although it looks just about as good as the marine fir. Also, I have never seen 1/4" MDO; 3/8 is the minimum. Using MDO for the thicker stuff would be reasonable.

Superply looks like good stuff too, although it's technically not marine grade, if you can get it in Colorado for a reasonable price. I think it's available in 1/4".

Or you can just bite the bullet and order marine ply, okoune or meranti or whatever. The BS6566 stuff is essentially the same except the face veneers are a lot thinner.

The trouble with ordering a small amount of plywood is that the shipping per sheet is pretty high. Anything you can get locally (usually including special orders from local lumberyards if they can combine shipments) will probably be cheaper than anything you order from elsewhere.

Paul H
12-18-2003, 06:48 PM
From my recent experience, I would be remiss not mention that BS6566 is not the same as 1088, as 6566 is no longer a valid standard, and doesn't mean a damn thing. I purchased 20 sheets of various thicknesses of Meranti 6566 from EdenSaw, and there are alot of voids in the 1/2" sheets, one void was several inches wide and deep! Fortunately I was able to cut around that and put it in the scrap bin. I haven't cut into the 3/8" sheets to comment yet, and the 1/4" seems fine.

I'm obviously a bit peeved to have ordered "marine ply" paying $180 to ship it to Alaska, and then finding it chock full of voids. In hindsight, I'd handpick whatever is available locally, or pony up for Lloyds 1088.

If you use 4oz glass, you can economically, and w/o much weight addition glas your fir ply. Roll the glass over the wood, cut the scraps off, mix up some epoxy, and squegee it on right through the glass onto the wood. Let it cure, then squegee on another batch to fill the weave.

Paul H
12-18-2003, 06:48 PM
From my recent experience, I would be remiss not mention that BS6566 is not the same as 1088, as 6566 is no longer a valid standard, and doesn't mean a damn thing. I purchased 20 sheets of various thicknesses of Meranti 6566 from EdenSaw, and there are alot of voids in the 1/2" sheets, one void was several inches wide and deep! Fortunately I was able to cut around that and put it in the scrap bin. I haven't cut into the 3/8" sheets to comment yet, and the 1/4" seems fine.

I'm obviously a bit peeved to have ordered "marine ply" paying $180 to ship it to Alaska, and then finding it chock full of voids. In hindsight, I'd handpick whatever is available locally, or pony up for Lloyds 1088.

If you use 4oz glass, you can economically, and w/o much weight addition glas your fir ply. Roll the glass over the wood, cut the scraps off, mix up some epoxy, and squegee it on right through the glass onto the wood. Let it cure, then squegee on another batch to fill the weave.

Paul H
12-18-2003, 06:48 PM
From my recent experience, I would be remiss not mention that BS6566 is not the same as 1088, as 6566 is no longer a valid standard, and doesn't mean a damn thing. I purchased 20 sheets of various thicknesses of Meranti 6566 from EdenSaw, and there are alot of voids in the 1/2" sheets, one void was several inches wide and deep! Fortunately I was able to cut around that and put it in the scrap bin. I haven't cut into the 3/8" sheets to comment yet, and the 1/4" seems fine.

I'm obviously a bit peeved to have ordered "marine ply" paying $180 to ship it to Alaska, and then finding it chock full of voids. In hindsight, I'd handpick whatever is available locally, or pony up for Lloyds 1088.

If you use 4oz glass, you can economically, and w/o much weight addition glas your fir ply. Roll the glass over the wood, cut the scraps off, mix up some epoxy, and squegee it on right through the glass onto the wood. Let it cure, then squegee on another batch to fill the weave.

Venchka
12-18-2003, 10:01 PM
For 6 bucks or quids or rubles anybody can go to Rubber Stamps R US and buy a bag of stamps with BS 1088 embossed on them. Said stamps can then be used to mark anything resembling plywood and shipped worlwide.

Conversely, Lloyds of London requires actual plywood samples be submitted for examination. If the quality measures up to their requirements, the maker is allowed to affix "Lloyds Type Approved" labels to their plywood. Lloyds also maintains a database on the internet so that a consumer may check to see if a particular maker has a current Lloyds certificate on file.

BS 1088 and Lloyds Type Approval are not interchangeable. Case in point: Bruynzeel makes what many believe is the best marine plywood on the planet. It is not made to the BS 1088 standard. Bruynzeel doesn't claim it is. BUT, their best grades of marine plywood carry the Lloyds label and either 10 year or 20 year guarantees against delamination.

Shelmarine plywood [WB #174] carries both the BS 1088 stamp and the Lloyds Type Approved label. 11 sheets of Shelmarine plywood were consumed to build my boat. I have a box of leftovers and I've looked at all the plank edges. No voids. None. Perfect faces. The builder said he didn't find any voids either. I don't think it would be possible to make plywood any better.

You pays your money and you takes your chances. Shelmarine and Bryunzeel make a product you can buy sight unseen.

On the mixing of plywood thicknesses for the Shellback dinghy (and Nutshell pram too): Would it make sense to glue up 6mm and 9mm to get the small pieces of 12mm and 18mm required? Where you gonna get a 1/2 sheet of 12mm or 18mm??????????? HUH????????

Thus ends the Lesson for today. End of rant.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Ya'll! smile.gif

Venchka
12-18-2003, 10:01 PM
For 6 bucks or quids or rubles anybody can go to Rubber Stamps R US and buy a bag of stamps with BS 1088 embossed on them. Said stamps can then be used to mark anything resembling plywood and shipped worlwide.

Conversely, Lloyds of London requires actual plywood samples be submitted for examination. If the quality measures up to their requirements, the maker is allowed to affix "Lloyds Type Approved" labels to their plywood. Lloyds also maintains a database on the internet so that a consumer may check to see if a particular maker has a current Lloyds certificate on file.

BS 1088 and Lloyds Type Approval are not interchangeable. Case in point: Bruynzeel makes what many believe is the best marine plywood on the planet. It is not made to the BS 1088 standard. Bruynzeel doesn't claim it is. BUT, their best grades of marine plywood carry the Lloyds label and either 10 year or 20 year guarantees against delamination.

Shelmarine plywood [WB #174] carries both the BS 1088 stamp and the Lloyds Type Approved label. 11 sheets of Shelmarine plywood were consumed to build my boat. I have a box of leftovers and I've looked at all the plank edges. No voids. None. Perfect faces. The builder said he didn't find any voids either. I don't think it would be possible to make plywood any better.

You pays your money and you takes your chances. Shelmarine and Bryunzeel make a product you can buy sight unseen.

On the mixing of plywood thicknesses for the Shellback dinghy (and Nutshell pram too): Would it make sense to glue up 6mm and 9mm to get the small pieces of 12mm and 18mm required? Where you gonna get a 1/2 sheet of 12mm or 18mm??????????? HUH????????

Thus ends the Lesson for today. End of rant.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Ya'll! smile.gif

Venchka
12-18-2003, 10:01 PM
For 6 bucks or quids or rubles anybody can go to Rubber Stamps R US and buy a bag of stamps with BS 1088 embossed on them. Said stamps can then be used to mark anything resembling plywood and shipped worlwide.

Conversely, Lloyds of London requires actual plywood samples be submitted for examination. If the quality measures up to their requirements, the maker is allowed to affix "Lloyds Type Approved" labels to their plywood. Lloyds also maintains a database on the internet so that a consumer may check to see if a particular maker has a current Lloyds certificate on file.

BS 1088 and Lloyds Type Approval are not interchangeable. Case in point: Bruynzeel makes what many believe is the best marine plywood on the planet. It is not made to the BS 1088 standard. Bruynzeel doesn't claim it is. BUT, their best grades of marine plywood carry the Lloyds label and either 10 year or 20 year guarantees against delamination.

Shelmarine plywood [WB #174] carries both the BS 1088 stamp and the Lloyds Type Approved label. 11 sheets of Shelmarine plywood were consumed to build my boat. I have a box of leftovers and I've looked at all the plank edges. No voids. None. Perfect faces. The builder said he didn't find any voids either. I don't think it would be possible to make plywood any better.

You pays your money and you takes your chances. Shelmarine and Bryunzeel make a product you can buy sight unseen.

On the mixing of plywood thicknesses for the Shellback dinghy (and Nutshell pram too): Would it make sense to glue up 6mm and 9mm to get the small pieces of 12mm and 18mm required? Where you gonna get a 1/2 sheet of 12mm or 18mm??????????? HUH????????

Thus ends the Lesson for today. End of rant.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, Ya'll! smile.gif

warthog5
12-19-2003, 07:30 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JimD:
[QB]For me fir is fine, I think the checking factor is overrated. When I work with sheet plywood (which is all my boats so far) I fiberglass the entire 4'X8' sheet first, then cut it up.

I bet you have alot of dull sawblades laying around doing it that way.
:confused:

warthog5
12-19-2003, 07:30 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JimD:
[QB]For me fir is fine, I think the checking factor is overrated. When I work with sheet plywood (which is all my boats so far) I fiberglass the entire 4'X8' sheet first, then cut it up.

I bet you have alot of dull sawblades laying around doing it that way.
:confused:

warthog5
12-19-2003, 07:30 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JimD:
[QB]For me fir is fine, I think the checking factor is overrated. When I work with sheet plywood (which is all my boats so far) I fiberglass the entire 4'X8' sheet first, then cut it up.

I bet you have alot of dull sawblades laying around doing it that way.
:confused: