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Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-08-2016, 08:46 PM
Listening to the people who were in the gun range, who did not change their minds one bit, I have come to the conclusion that America will probably never get a handle on their gun violence.

The second part of the program which talks about the martial law conspiracy in Texas... leads me to the belief that a lot of people in the US who own guns are stupid.

CWSmith
01-08-2016, 08:50 PM
Listening to the people who were in the gun range, who did not change their minds one bit, I have come to the conclusion that America will probably never get a handle on their gun violence.

It's like racism - you change the minds of the young before they are infected.

S.V. Airlie
01-08-2016, 08:53 PM
You can't change people's minds when they are embedded in dry cement.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
01-08-2016, 09:01 PM
The craziest comments are from people who think their government is going to turn tyrannical. Military exercises that are just the planning stages and on and on. It's bizarre.

Jim Bow
01-08-2016, 09:27 PM
When did fear become so pronounced in the US?
I turn 70 this year, and I have never been so afraid that I felt the need to carry a weapon. I've been dirt poor and well off. Lived in crap neighborhoods and nice places.
Maybe I'm just stupid and happy.

Gerarddm
01-08-2016, 09:30 PM
Peter, yes and yes.

Getting rid of the fetish about guns is going to take a generation or two, but it is coming. Kids these days aren't buying the same ol' BS anymore.

David W Pratt
01-09-2016, 07:27 AM
Just for fun, has anyone here ever bought a gun without a background check? Does anyone know anybody who has?

Peerie Maa
01-09-2016, 07:43 AM
Maybe I'm just stupid and happy.

Not from where I am standing.

Dannybb55
01-09-2016, 07:58 AM
Just for fun, has anyone here ever bought a gun without a background check? Does anyone know anybody who has?

Many times. It is not required for antique long arms. My bolt actions are all antiques. Not the kind of piece for shooting up public places.

Bob Adams
01-09-2016, 08:00 AM
Just for fun, has anyone here ever bought a gun without a background check? Does anyone know anybody who has?

Yes, me. But it was over 15 years ago before private sales required going through the Maryland State police.

Canoez
01-09-2016, 08:03 AM
Just for fun, has anyone here ever bought a gun without a background check? Does anyone know anybody who has?

How quickly they forget.

Everybody over the age of 18 does. NICS only came into force in 1998 under the Brady Act of 1993 supported by our favorite Republican President Ronald Reagan. Before that date, gun paperwork was self-certified.

Phillip Allen
01-09-2016, 08:03 AM
It's like racism - you change the minds of the young before they are infected.

same thing for religion and voting habits... and which car to buy and which cigarettes to smoke and many other things

Paul Pless
01-09-2016, 08:07 AM
It's like racism - you change the minds of the young before they are infected.this is why phillip wants taxpayers to fund gun training beginning in elementary schools. . .

Phillip Allen
01-09-2016, 08:07 AM
When did fear become so pronounced in the US?
I turn 70 this year, and I have never been so afraid that I felt the need to carry a weapon. I've been dirt poor and well off. Lived in crap neighborhoods and nice places.
Maybe I'm just stupid and happy.




fear? since before burning witches in Salem

have we become so glib that we don't even notice ourselves doing it?... like, "we gotta stop guns before the kill all our children!"

S.V. Airlie
01-09-2016, 08:52 AM
his is why phillip wants taxpayers to fund gun training beginning in elementary schools. . .

Looks good on college applications at Texas State Colleges. Bound to be accepted!

George Jung
01-09-2016, 10:34 AM
Years back, you could walk into any shop, pick out/buy a gun, leave - before we as a country went nutter. I haven't tried to buy a gun in over 30 years, so I don't know how stringent things have got. But it's damned sad.

On a 'comment' section of our local newspaper, I've been 'enjoying' commentary/debate with a local nutter - he sounds every bit as crazy as our handful of nutters here - and he's military - and damned proud of it. He warns everyone needs to be ready for the Zombie apocalypse. Hope he doesn't have access to any of those 'special buttons' the President carries with him.

Norman Bernstein
01-09-2016, 10:43 AM
Listening to the people who were in the gun range, who did not change their minds one bit, I have come to the conclusion that America will probably never get a handle on their gun violence..

Of course we won't.

Shakespeare was more than just a bard; he was a prophet, especially when he said, "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves."

We Americans are a violent, bloodthirsty lot... we have lots of gun violence because we like it... it's a deeply held part of our culture. We memorialize, we celebrate it, and our heroes are generally violent, larger-than-life, and often use guns.

This is why any effort to limit the availability of guns, or to suppress gun violence, is doomed to fail... and it's largely a waste of time and political will, to even try.

Phillip Allen
01-09-2016, 10:47 AM
Of course we won't.

Shakespeare was more than just a bard; he was a prophet, especially when he said, "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves."

We Americans are a violent, bloodthirsty lot... we have lots of gun violence because we like it... it's a deeply held part of our culture. We memorialize, we celebrate it, and our heroes are generally violent, larger-than-life, and often use guns.

This is why any effort to limit the availability of guns, or to suppress gun violence, is doomed to fail... and it's largely a waste of time and political will, to even try.

how does it feel to find that you're just a skim on the top of our culture? :)... virtuous?

CWSmith
01-09-2016, 10:48 AM
this is why phillip wants taxpayers to fund gun training beginning in elementary schools. . .

And apparently religious deprogramming as well. Oh, well.

You know I don't object to gun ownership. I just want sane gun regulations that include a ban on the practice of carrying your gun to church, the drug store, and everywhere else you go.

George Jung
01-09-2016, 10:52 AM
Of course we won't.

Shakespeare was more than just a bard; he was a prophet, especially when he said, "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves."

We Americans are a violent, bloodthirsty lot... we have lots of gun violence because we like it... it's a deeply held part of our culture. We memorialize, we celebrate it, and our heroes are generally violent, larger-than-life, and often use guns.

This is why any effort to limit the availability of guns, or to suppress gun violence, is doomed to fail... and it's largely a waste of time and political will, to even try.


The degree to which to 'idolize' our military should be troubling to us - but Norman is right - it's certainly who we are, now. I don't recall that level of promotion when I was a kid - and certainly, post WWII, we didn't - and the nation seemingly embraced peace, and a return to 'normalcy'. That started changing, from my perspective, post-Vietnam - a seeming need to 'rehabilitate' how we perceive our veterans. I'd say we have considerable over-shoot on that, now - we worship our soldiers, our military can do no wrong. Contest this at your peril - 'that's un-American!'.

Big problem.

Norman Bernstein
01-09-2016, 10:54 AM
how does it feel to find that you're just a skim on the top of our culture?

Not very good.....

..but it does feel a great deal better to not be part of the culture who is 20 times more likely to die by gun. In that sense, the gun afficianados are self-limiting.

CWSmith
01-09-2016, 10:54 AM
On a 'comment' section of our local newspaper, I've been 'enjoying' commentary/debate with a local nutter - he sounds every bit as crazy as our handful of nutters here - and he's military - and damned proud of it. He warns everyone needs to be ready for the Zombie apocalypse. Hope he doesn't have access to any of those 'special buttons' the President carries with him.

I sometimes ponder what a collapse of society would be like. What do you think is more likely to bring it on: the rule of law and voting for government representatives, or the armed resistance to that same government? I think the nutters who call for armed resistance are working to create what they most fear and prepare for. Then it will be every bit as bad as they think they are preparing for, but I doubt they will be the biggest, meanest dog in the fight.

Phillip Allen
01-09-2016, 10:55 AM
Not very good.....

..but it does feel a great deal better to not be part of the culture who is 20 times more likely to die by gun. In that sense, the gun afficianados are self-limiting.

I'm 67. you get to have the satisfaction of hearing of me dying by gunshot some time soon then... congrats :)

Phillip Allen
01-09-2016, 10:57 AM
I sometimes ponder what a collapse of society would be like. What do you think is more likely to bring it on: the rule of law and voting for government representatives, or the armed resistance to that same government? I think the nutters who call for armed resistance are working to create what they most fear and prepare for. Then it will be every bit as bad as they think they are preparing for, but I doubt they will be the biggest, meanest dog in the fight.

that's it? no other options at all?

Norman Bernstein
01-09-2016, 10:58 AM
I'm 67. you get to have the satisfaction of hearing of me dying by gunshot some time soon then... congrats :)

You're welcome to expose yourself to the statistical risks... and whether you live to 95 and die in your sleep, or shoot yourself accidentally and bleed out, isn't my concern. I'm simply glad that I'm not living that risk.

Phillip Allen
01-09-2016, 11:00 AM
You're welcome to expose yourself to the statistical risks... and whether you live to 95 and die in your sleep, or shoot yourself accidentally and bleed out, isn't my concern. I'm simply glad that I'm not living that risk.

I am glad that you have withdrawn your prediction of the 20% thing then

Norman Bernstein
01-09-2016, 11:06 AM
I am glad that you have withdrawn your prediction of the 20% thing then

It wasn't '20%'.... it was 20X, the amount of increased risk of death or injury to people who keep a gun in the home, whether by suicide, homicide, or accident. This doesn't mean you WILL die by suicide, homicide, or accident from a gun.... just that your chances are 20 times higher. If you're lucky, it will never happen to you... you'll beat the odds. Maybe you'll be unlucky, and won't.

As for me, since I don't own a gun, I don't face any elevated risk whatsoever, which I'm happy about.

Phillip Allen
01-09-2016, 11:17 AM
It wasn't '20%'.... it was 20X, the amount of increased risk of death or injury to people who keep a gun in the home, whether by suicide, homicide, or accident. This doesn't mean you WILL die by suicide, homicide, or accident from a gun.... just that your chances are 20 times higher. If you're lucky, it will never happen to you... you'll beat the odds. Maybe you'll be unlucky, and won't.

As for me, since I don't own a gun, I don't face any elevated risk whatsoever, which I'm happy about.

I am reminded to ask what is the change in the chance of dying of smoking related disease since we began to educate children in public schools?

George Jung
01-09-2016, 11:21 AM
Hehehe.... always trying to figure out a new 'spin' for your agenda....


Doesn't that make yer head hurt something fierce?

Norman Bernstein
01-09-2016, 11:27 AM
I am reminded to ask what is the change in the chance of dying of smoking related disease since we began to educate children in public schools?

Typical that you'd concentrate on the WRONG metric.

The chance of dying from smoking remains more or less the same.... the chance of smoking, however, (mainly as a result of public education) has been reduced.

THAT is why you continually miss the point.

Keith Wilson
01-09-2016, 11:31 AM
When did fear become so pronounced in the US?
I turn 70 this year, and I have never been so afraid that I felt the need to carry a weapon.This particular spasm started, I think, with the right-wing reaction to the left-wing extremism of the 'late '60s and early '70s, followed by the right's own lurch toward extremism, probably starting in the '90s. Some of the attitudes are also a result of the increased crime rate of the '70s and '80s, but that has declined dramatically - although people's ideas in many cases haven't caught up yet. The fact is that statistically, you are less likely to need to defend yourself than at any time in the past 50 years. And there have been many public figures who have found it to their advantage to encourage fear. This is more obvious right now, but it's been going on for a long time. Remember Willie Horton?