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ron ll
12-27-2015, 04:11 PM
On a bad coin toss call. I bet Brady is really pissed.

bamamick
12-27-2015, 04:17 PM
With so many injuries it's pretty amazing they can even be in these games against good competition. The road to the Super Bowl still goes through Foxboro.

Mickey Lake

Rich Jones
12-27-2015, 04:38 PM
On a bad coin toss call. I bet Brady is really pissed. That dopey idiot will be walking back to Boston...

Sky Blue
12-27-2015, 04:40 PM
With so many injuries it's pretty amazing they can even be in these games against good competition.


Yes. I wonder if this is not starting to catch up to them. I would not bet against them but the injuries have to become magnified in the playoffs.

Paul Girouard
12-27-2015, 05:06 PM
On a bad coin toss call. I bet Brady is really pissed.


Was the coin inflated to NFL reg's? If it was Brady wouldn't be used to handling a fully inflated coin , so it no wonder he fumbled it!

Fitz
12-27-2015, 05:45 PM
Jets. Super Bowl 1968.

BaaHaaaHaaa,HaaHaaa!!!!

Garret
12-27-2015, 06:21 PM
That dopey idiot will be walking back to Boston...

'cept he's the captain...

Belichick was not impressed.

Norman Bernstein
12-27-2015, 06:54 PM
On a bad coin toss call. I bet Brady is really pissed.

It wasn't a bad coin toss call.... for whatever reason, Bellichick decided he wanted to kick off, not receive. The only confusion was Slater's who didn't realize that the receiving team gets to pick the direction they'll receive.

As for the game: the Jets deserved the win... although it's only fair to point out that the Patriots have set records in terms of the loss of key players to injury; many guys playing for the Pats have only been with the team for a few weeks, not years.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-27-2015, 06:56 PM
Haven't watched a game this year.... when cheaters can win the championship, what's the point?

Norman Bernstein
12-27-2015, 06:59 PM
Haven't watched a game this year.... when cheaters can win the championship, what's the point?

If you have any evidence to back up the continual accusations of cheating, please let us know.... until then, we're going to have to assume it's just slander.

Bob Adams
12-27-2015, 07:16 PM
http://i.imgur.com/GJeOlLj.jpg

Tom Brady's Christmas decorations:D

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-27-2015, 07:38 PM
If you have any evidence to back up the continual accusations of cheating, please let us know.... until then, we're going to have to assume it's just slander.

Maybe you didn't see this Norman, but it was in all the papers.


On January 23 the NFL tapped Manhattan attorney Ted Wells to "get to the bottom of Deflategate." Wells previously had worked with the NFL to "get to the bottom" of the Miami Dolphins bullying scandal between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin. In a press release, following the league's decision to hire Wells, the NFL claimed that the investigation "will be thorough and objective, and is being pursued expeditiously" with league Executive Vice President Jeff Pash working along with Wells in coming in the review of the impending issue.[32] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate#cite_note-32) Many, especially the New England media, questioned exactly how "independent" Wells could truly be, as a result of his history with the NFL. Rather they, the naysayers, wanted to see a truly independent investigator, someone without ties to the NFL, to investigate this scandal as they felt the Patriots were at a disadvantage with the hiring of Wells. Finally after four months of waiting the NFL published a 243-page investigative report regarding the deflation of footballs used in the AFC Championship game on May 6, 2015.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate#cite_note-Wells_Report-19) This report is known as the Wells Report,[33] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate#cite_note-33) named for its leading author, attorney Theodore V. Wells, Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Wells), of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul,_Weiss,_Rifkind,_Wharton_%26_Garrison). The investigation concluded that it was "more probable than not" that New England Patriots equipment personnel were deliberately circumventing the rules.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate#cite_note-Wells_Report-19):122 Further, Brady was implicated as it being more probable than not that he was "generally aware" of the deflation.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate#cite_note-Wells_Report-19):122 The report further stated that Belichick and other members of the coaching staff were not involved in the situation.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate#cite_note-Wells_Report-19):122 The report focuses on the communications and actions of locker-room attendant Jim McNally and equipment assistant John Jastremski. The report concludes it was "more probable than not" that the two deliberately released air from Patriot game balls after they were tested by game officials. In several texts between Jastremski and McNally, the two mention and joke about inflation, deflation, needles, and gifts from Tom Brady to McNally. Tom Brady was a constant reference point in these discussions. McNally referred to himself as "the deflator" in a text message to Jastremski as far back as May 2014.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflategate#cite_note-Wells_Report-19):75

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-27-2015, 07:42 PM
Then there was this... but you may have missed it as well. Maybe you don't watch football.


NFL Security confiscate video camera[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2007_New_England_Patriots_videotap ing_controversy&action=edit&section=1)]On September 10, 2007, Belichick was accused by the Jets of authorizing his staff to film the Jets' defensive signals from an on-field location, a violation of league rules. NFL Security confiscated the video camera used by video assistant Matt Estrella to film the signals during the game.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-Tape-13) Jets Head Coach Eric Mangini (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Mangini)—a former Patriots assistant coach—had reported the fact that the Patriots were taping from the sidelines to NFL Security.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-Smith.2C_Michael_David-14) Mangini later stated, "I didn't think it was any kind of significant advantage, but I wasn't going to give them the convenience of doing it in our stadium, and I wanted to shut it down. But there was no intent to get the league involved. There was no intent to have the landslide that it has become."[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-Smith.2C_Michael_David-14)
Two days later, Belichick issued a statement "to apologize to everyone who has been affected," and also stated that he spoke with Goodell about Belichick's "interpretation of the rule." Belichick stated that he believed that if footage so collected was not used during the game, its collection was legal, as the NFL Constitution and Bylaws stipulate that "...any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited...including without limitation...any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-Rules-15) In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."[15] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-Rules-15)
Penalty and fines[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2007_New_England_Patriots_videotap ing_controversy&action=edit&section=2)]On September 13, for the "use of equipment to videotape an opposing team’s offensive or defensive signals,"[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-Ruling-3) Belichick was officially fined $500,000 — the largest fine ever imposed on a coach in the league's then-87-year history,[16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-16) and the maximum permitted under league rules. The Patriots were also fined $250,000, and stripped of their first-round selection in the 2008 NFL Draft; if the Patriots had missed the playoffs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_playoffs,_2007%E2%80%9308), they would have forfeited their second- and third-round selections instead.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-Ruling-3) Goodell said that he fined the Patriots as a team because Belichick is effectively the team's general manager (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_manager) as well as head coach, and exercises so much control over the Patriots' on-field operations that "his actions and decisions are properly attributed to the club." Goodell considered suspending Belichick, but decided that taking away draft picks would be more severe in the long run.[17] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-17) The Patriots officially clinched their fifth straight AFC East (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Football_Conference_East_Division) title on November 25, making them the first NFL team since the 1971 Miami Dolphins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Miami_Dolphins_season) to have a first-round pick taken away by league action.[18] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-18)
The next day, Belichick issued a statement in which he apologized for what he called a "mistake" in his interpretation of the rules. However, he denied ever using videotape to gain an advantage while a game was underway, which Goodell also acknowledged.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-MistakeStatement-19)
On September 16, Goodell ordered the Patriots to hand over all notes, tapes, and other materials related to the incident, threatening further discipline if the Patriots did not comply.[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-20) On September 20, the NFL announced they had received and destroyed the requested materials.[21] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-21) In his pre-Super Bowl XLII (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XLII) press conference, Goodell revealed the contents of the materials, saying there were six tapes from late in the 2006 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_New_England_Patriots_season) season and the 2007 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_season) preseason.[22] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_England_Patriots_videotaping_controversy# cite_note-22)

hokiefan
12-27-2015, 07:42 PM
If you have any evidence to back up the continual accusations of cheating, please let us know.... until then, we're going to have to assume it's just slander.

Brady's refusal to turn over his phone, and then destruction of it is proof enough for me. It wouldn't fly in a criminal jury, but it could easily fly in a civil jury. I believe he is totally guilty of cheating in deflate-gate. That said, it doesn't matter a hoot what I think.

Cheers,

Bobby

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-27-2015, 07:44 PM
In either case, if this was an Olympian, they would have had their medals stripped, and any records vacated. The NFL has decided that the rules are flexible based on dollars and who know what else. Not that it makes a difference to anyone, but I no longer watch football, because the championship is no longer awarded based on the rules.

Paul Girouard
12-27-2015, 07:46 PM
Norm's a liberal, he lives into side his own universe where facts don't matter, politically and apparently that transfers to any thing to do with the Patriots , the NFL team anyway. Not so much things like the Patriot Act , and or acts of patriotism.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-27-2015, 07:51 PM
Norm's a liberal, he lives into side his own universe where facts don't matter, politically and apparently that transfers to any thing to do with the Patriots , the NFL team anyway. Not so much things like the Patriot Act , and or acts of patriotism.

Forumites would call me a liberal too.... so how does that work?

ron ll
12-27-2015, 07:51 PM
Norm's a liberal, he lives into side his own universe where facts don't matter, politically and apparently that transfers to any thing to do with the Patriots , the NFL team anyway. Not so much things like the Patriot Act , and or acts of patriotism.

C'mon Paul. You need a smiley face on BS like that.

Paul Girouard
12-27-2015, 07:58 PM
Just a observation , sort of like George Jung "Ain't it the truth", observation about a cartoon as "truth". There's always a smile in my heart when I post on WBF, ;-)) God Bless ya all.

Sky Blue
12-27-2015, 09:22 PM
Meanwhile, the Cardinals are the best team in football. They eviscerated the Packers today but all the news is about a coin flip somewhere else.

LOOK OUT for the Cardinals.

Garret
12-27-2015, 09:28 PM
The Cardinals made GB look terrible.

bobbys
12-27-2015, 11:04 PM
On a bad coin toss call. I bet Brady is really pissed..
Any truth to the rumor Steve Harvey called it for the Pats?

Gerarddm
12-28-2015, 12:13 AM
...and so did the Seahawks in an ugly game for them. Blaugh.

They will get to the playoffs, but unless they get healthy again I don't think they are going to go all the way.

Norman Bernstein
12-28-2015, 10:36 AM
Maybe you didn't see this Norman, but it was in all the papers.

I didn't miss it. However, you apparently missed the refutation which was made after an investigation of the Wells Report itself, which demonstrated just how shoddy and biased the Wells report was.

Irrespective of all of that, even if you DID believe that Brady was responsible for 'Deflategate' (which I don't, after reading the refutation), then you're going to have to explain just what cheating has occurred to let the Patriots reach a 12-3 record, and end up as the conference leaders.

Per your quote:


Haven't watched a game this year.... when cheaters can win the championship, what's the point?

So, once a cheater, ALWAYS a cheater, and they've cheated their way through this season?

If you believe that, provide some evidence. If you can't establish that they are continually cheating, then your position is nothing more than slander.

Garret
12-28-2015, 10:50 AM
Even the videotaping was way overblown. It's legal to film the opposing team from the stands. It's not from the sidelines. The Pat's camera was near the stands, so the actual difference between legal & illegal in this case was about 10 feet. In fact, they would've had a better angle from the stands, as they were a bit higher.

However, people are gonna believe what they want & many people want to believe the Pats are "bad".

Norman Bernstein
12-28-2015, 11:00 AM
Even the videotaping was way overblown. It's legal to film the opposing team from the stands. It's not from the sidelines. The Pat's camera was near the stands, so the actual difference between legal & illegal in this case was about 10 feet. In fact, they would've had a better angle from the stands, as they were a bit higher.

However, people are gonna believe what they want & many people want to believe the Pats are "bad".

Exactly my point. The taping violation was really a minor technical issue; ALL teams attempt to videotape opposing team's sideline signals, the only issue being whether the camera is in the stands or on the sidelines. While it WAS a violation, and the Patriots got hit with a HUGE fine and loss of a draft pick, someone is going to have to explain to me exactly HOW this constitutes 'cheating', when other teams do the same damn thing.

The 'Deflategate' thing is yet another example.... and especially, an example of how Roger Goodell put his thumb on the scale to produce a result he was looking for. The technical aspect of the 'investigation' was a total joke; even their supposed 'expert' failed to comprehend basic physics and Boyle's Law. Regardless, it stretches credulity to think that the under-inflation of the football, at worst, by a comparatively small amount, was a contributor to Patriots success. Even reading the testimony regarding the two Pats employees, and their emails, the conclusion that there was any sort of conspiracy was ridiculous.... these guy's comments about being the 'deflator' is just as valid if you presume that they were making fun of Brady, after Brady complained about substantially OVERINFLATED footballs he was given to play with. Finally, the supposed 'standard' of 'more likely than not' is a complete joke, and an offense to the notion of fairness in any investigation. Guilt isn't determioned by 'likelihood', it's determined by a preponderance of evidence... and there certainly was NOT a preponderance of 'evidence' of any sort.

ccmanuals
12-28-2015, 12:40 PM
Meanwhile, the Cardinals are the best team in football. They eviscerated the Packers today but all the news is about a coin flip somewhere else.

LOOK OUT for the Cardinals.

Not quite,

Cardinals, 13/2
Panthers 14/1

hokiefan
12-28-2015, 01:53 PM
I didn't miss it. However, you apparently missed the refutation which was made after an investigation of the Wells Report itself, which demonstrated just how shoddy and biased the Wells report was.

Irrespective of all of that, even if you DID believe that Brady was responsible for 'Deflategate' (which I don't, after reading the refutation), then you're going to have to explain just what cheating has occurred to let the Patriots reach a 12-3 record, and end up as the conference leaders.

Per your quote:



So, once a cheater, ALWAYS a cheater, and they've cheated their way through this season?

If you believe that, provide some evidence. If you can't establish that they are continually cheating, then your position is nothing more than slander.

You're entitled to your opinion Norman, we're entitled to ours.

Fact is, the football fans I know that aren't Patriots fans all think the Patriots cheated. Many think it was of little consequence and the league overreacted, but it doesn't change that they think the Patriots cheated.

Cheers,

Bobby

Breakaway
12-28-2015, 04:15 PM
So, once a cheater, ALWAYS a cheater, and they've cheated their way through this season?

Yes. People can change, but its rare for them to do so.

Kevin