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Norman Bernstein
12-23-2015, 10:35 AM
Interesting poll... especially in light of my dinner with my Trump-supporting friend.


NEW YORK —Fifty percent of American voters say they would be “embarrassed” if Donald Trump were president, according to a new Quinnipiac University poll released Tuesday morning said.

The current Republican frontrunner, whose 28 percent support in this poll tops his competition for the GOP nomination, would make 23 percent of voters “proud,” the poll found. Other recent national polls have found Trump’s lead for the GOP nomination at more than 20 percentage points.

Six in 10 women say they would be “embarrassed” of Trump, compared to only four in 10 men. Forty-seven percent of independents say they would be “embarrassed” by Trump, but 44 percent of Republicans say they would be proud of him.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 10:39 AM
Oh, that's just sad! I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. Time to turn the US flag upside down on the flagpole!

Nicholas Scheuer
12-23-2015, 10:44 AM
Soi much for American "exceptionalism".

Keith Wilson
12-23-2015, 10:46 AM
Only 50%? Give him time, I bet he can get it up to 75% with diligent effort.

Norman Bernstein
12-23-2015, 10:46 AM
Soi much for American "exceptionalism".

Well, ya gotta admit, a bombastic, egotistical narcissist drawing big numbers in Presidential race polling IS indeed 'exceptional', isn't it? :):)

CWSmith
12-23-2015, 12:00 PM
In the last few days his attacks on other candidates have been a new low. He seems not to understand that you can disagree without making it personal and this is a serious character flaw for a POTUS.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 12:01 PM
Just one Character flaw? I wish it was just one.

Osborne Russell
12-23-2015, 12:07 PM
He already is an embarrassment. The good part is that he draws the maggots into the sunlight so we can see who they are. Which is a further embarrassment, but it's better to know and be embarrassed.

Someday liberals may have to do something. How much embarrassment will it take?

Vince Brennan
12-23-2015, 12:08 PM
I'd just like to remind people, appropos of nothing, that the NDASP was roundly considered the "Klown Act" of politics, right up until they took over.

Canoeyawl
12-23-2015, 12:10 PM
"If"

Spartan reply to King Philip of Macedon...

mdh
12-23-2015, 12:15 PM
Did that poll say anything about Hillry?

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 12:16 PM
Why should they, it was a poll about Trumpet!

lupussonic
12-23-2015, 12:39 PM
Would he be an embarrassment?

Andrew Craig-Bennett
12-23-2015, 12:41 PM
Yes.

But not to Vlad Putin.

Canoeyawl
12-23-2015, 12:46 PM
Yes.

But not to Vlad Putin.

A great match, Atlantic city would be a perfect venue

Gerarddm
12-23-2015, 12:51 PM
That 100% did not say he would be an embarassment is an indictment of the electorate, or at least of those polled.

Rum_Pirate
12-23-2015, 12:53 PM
and


The poll also showed a divide in those who say they would be “embarrassed” by a Trump presidency along lines of gender, age and political ideology. Six in 10 female voters said they would be “embarrassed” to have the billionaire as their president compared to four in 10 male ones.

Among 18- to 34-year-old voters, 73% said they would be “embarrassed” by Trump being president compared with 13% who said they would be “proud”.

Meanwhile, 47% of independents said they would be “embarrassed” by Trump compared with 44% Republicans (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/republicans) who said they would be “proud” of him.

By comparison, 35% of voters said they would be “embarrassed” if Hillary Clinton (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/hillary-clinton), the Democratic frontrunner, were elected president, compared with 33% of voters who said they would be “proud”.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/22/voters-embarrassed-donald-trump-president-poll

Rum_Pirate
12-23-2015, 01:00 PM
the "But but Hillary" post disappeared . :confused:



Then again . . .

http://beforeitsnews.com/contributor/upload/138242/images/Obama's%202013%20Inauguration%20Orwell's%201984.jp g

Sky Blue
12-23-2015, 01:01 PM
What has he done that he should be so embarrassed of? Shown hubris? Made some rude, impolitic comments?

Maybe we should have a constitutional amendment changing the office title to something like: "nice guy in-Chief" or "non-offender in charge."

I'm sure our friends in Britain would be suitably comforted, but if not, perhaps a digest from one of their own might reveal what Americans ought to really be embarrassed about.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/president-obama-is-to-blame-for-the-strength-of-isis/

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 01:08 PM
He embarrasses many of us. I'm glad you aren't says a lot.

cathouse willy
12-23-2015, 01:09 PM
What has he done that he should be so embarrassed of? Shown hubris? Made some rude, impolitic comments?

Maybe we should have a constitutional amendment changing the office title to something like: "nice guy in-Chief" or "non-offender in charge."

I'm sure our friends in Britain would be suitably comforted, but if not, perhaps a digest from one of their own might reveal what Americans ought to really be embarrassed about.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/president-obama-is-to-blame-for-the-strength-of-isis/

The man is an ignorant buffoon. It's a safe bet that if trump is elected president the USA will become the laughing stock of the world.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 01:14 PM
He already is I think.Heck, I was in the UK when Reagan was elected. He certainly wasn't bad in comparison to Trump but, I remember watching 2 weeks of Reagan and Bonzo movies through Oct.'79.

ljb5
12-23-2015, 01:33 PM
I don't know if 'embarrassed' is the right word... but definitely confused.

Trump has been married three times, never served in the military, used to be a Democrat, supports gay rights, supports a ban on assault weapons, said he was pro-choice and appears to be an extraordinarily insincere Christian.

I have to wonder what Republican voters are so excited about.

Other than the anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric, Trump appears to be exactly the opposite of what Republicans say they are for.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 01:36 PM
You really think that republicans are putting all these thoughts, positions he supports, etc. in one, concise paragraph as you just have?

RonW
12-23-2015, 01:48 PM
The man is an ignorant buffoon. It's a safe bet that if trump is elected president the USA will become the laughing stock of the world.

Actually Obama aka (berry) has already secured that position...........

isla
12-23-2015, 01:49 PM
What has he done that he should be so embarrassed of?
Well, the poll highlighted the potential embarrassment of the voters, not of Trump. I doubt that such an insensitive idiot could be embarrassed about anything.



I'm sure our friends in Britain would be suitably comforted, but if not, perhaps a digest from one of their own might reveal what Americans ought to really be embarrassed about.



I suspect that those who said they would be embarrassed by him are thinking of his racist, homophobic and misogynist views. I would be embarrassed to have a friend or family member who held opinions like that, and would certainly be mortified if somebody who openly held those opinions was elected leader of this country.

Sky Blue
12-23-2015, 01:57 PM
I continue to be amazed by the modern phenomenon of PC politeness and correctitude as a basis to find virtue in a person (to say nothing of political leaders). It is a very old, aristocratic idea or pattern of social behavior that has now been reconstituted as a means to advance one's social standing, ostensibly democratic, open and available to all, no matter how dishonest, suppressive or dangerous it is in practice. Say all the appropriate things, don't say the wrong things, and you belong. Virtue indeed, most cheaply bought. Virtuous Kardashianism, so to speak.

It is the idea that Mr. Trump's philistinism is worse than Mr. Obama's polite incompetence, irrespective of the consequences actually occasioned.

The dishonesty of the whole enterprise would be more notable but for its utter illiberalism and dangerous intellectual vacuity.

For example, the legacy of Mr. Obama's failures will hamper Britain for decades, perhaps terribly so, as noted in the Forsyth piece I linked, while Mr. Trump has done nothing but own property and employ persons in Britain, but yet, for stating policy relevant to issues in the United States, it is Britons seeking to ban him from their country (and not Mr. Obama, nor ISIS fighters returning home), all in order to punish him for impolitic speech.

It is one of the most childish, embarrassing and irresponsible displays of purported social virtue that I've ever seen.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 01:59 PM
or example, the legacy of Mr. Obama's failures will hamper Britain for decades, perhaps terribly so, as noted in the Forsyth piece I linked, while Mr. Trump has done nothing but own property and employ persons in Britain, but yet, for stating policy relevant to issues in the United States, it is Britons seeking to ban him from their country (and not Mr. Obama, nor ISIS fighters returning home), all in order to punish him for impolitic speech.

I didn't realize you're a Brit. Nice of you to speak for them!

Arizona Bay
12-23-2015, 02:05 PM
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoons/BenneC/2015/BenneC20151223_low.jpg

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 02:07 PM
Like it!

RonW
12-23-2015, 02:09 PM
Looks like the donald made tweets on hillary this morning........wait till he calls for her medical reports to be made public ........

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 02:12 PM
Back to that again, nothing like a little pitbull who can't see this is a nonissue! Too stupid to let go!

Tom Montgomery
12-23-2015, 02:12 PM
I continue to be amazed by the modern phenomenon of PC politeness and correctitude as a basis to find virtue in a person (to say nothing of political leaders). It is a very old, aristocratic idea or pattern of social behavior that has now been reconstituted as a means to advance one's social standing, ostensibly democratic, open and available to all, no matter how dishonest, suppressive or dangerous it is in practice. Say all the appropriate things, don't say the wrong things, and you belong. Virtue indeed, most cheaply bought. Virtuous Kardashianism, so to speak.What twaddle!

I continue to be amazed by how so many in the GOP "base" find innumerable excuses for this egomaniac's bad behavior.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 02:14 PM
What twaddle!

I continue to be amazed at how so many in the GOP "base" find innumerable excuses for this egomaniac's bad behavior. They think more about finding excuses than thinking about the issues. Make sense to me!

Tom Montgomery
12-23-2015, 02:15 PM
Pretty highfalutin twaddle, at that.

Canoez
12-23-2015, 02:20 PM
Would he be an embarrassment?

+1.

skuthorp
12-23-2015, 02:27 PM
"Six in 10 women say they would be “embarrassed” of Trump, compared to only four in 10 men."
Yes, well I'm not surprised at that either.

Osborne Russell
12-23-2015, 02:40 PM
Virtuous Kardashianism, so to speak.

Between that and Islamo-progressivism, it's over for the little guy, unless Trump can turn things around.

Bobcat
12-23-2015, 02:49 PM
I continue to be amazed by the modern phenomenon of PC politeness and correctitude as a basis to find virtue in a person (to say nothing of political leaders). It is a very old, aristocratic idea or pattern of social behavior that has now been reconstituted as a means to advance one's social standing, ostensibly democratic, open and available to all, no matter how dishonest, suppressive or dangerous it is in practice. Say all the appropriate things, don't say the wrong things, and you belong. Virtue indeed, most cheaply bought. Virtuous Kardashianism, so to speak.

It is the idea that Mr. Trump's philistinism is worse than Mr. Obama's polite incompetence, irrespective of the consequences actually occasioned.

The dishonesty of the whole enterprise would be more notable but for its utter illiberalism and dangerous intellectual vacuity.

For example, the legacy of Mr. Obama's failures will hamper Britain for decades, perhaps terribly so, as noted in the Forsyth piece I linked, while Mr. Trump has done nothing but own property and employ persons in Britain, but yet, for stating policy relevant to issues in the United States, it is Britons seeking to ban him from their country (and not Mr. Obama, nor ISIS fighters returning home), all in order to punish him for impolitic speech.

It is one of the most childish, embarrassing and irresponsible displays of purported social virtue that I've ever seen.

Correctitude?

Seriously?

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 02:51 PM
He's using Trump's dictionary.:)

lupussonic
12-23-2015, 02:53 PM
The World is embarrased.

...That the US cannot send up a balanced, coherent, intelligent, stable, worldly, ritcheous, likeable, diplomatic, multi-lingual, positive, non-reactionary and believable person, to perhaps govern the most powerful economic and military nation on earth.

Come back Dubya, all is forgiven.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 02:55 PM
Ain't that the truth for the most part.:)

Osborne Russell
12-23-2015, 02:57 PM
Come back Dubya, all is forgiven.

Nixon - Reagan - Chimp - Trump.

skuthorp
12-23-2015, 02:57 PM
The World is embarrased.

...That the US cannot send up a balanced, coherent, intelligent, stable, worldly, ritcheous, likeable, diplomatic, multi-lingual, positive, non-reactionary and believable person, to perhaps govern the most powerful economic and military nation on earth.

Come back Dubya, all is forgiven.
I doubt that such a mythical person would want to stand in the first place, or that they would be an acceptable and controllable candidate for either party. After all a president with a conscience?

isla
12-23-2015, 03:19 PM
I continue to be amazed by the modern phenomenon of PC politeness and correctitude as a basis to find virtue in a person..

Ah yes, we all long for the days when you could call a spade a ni33er, when a Jew was a Kike and a woman's place was either on her back or chained to the stove.
Imagine how you would feel if your kids came home and said "Mr Jimenez down the street is a drug dealer and a rapist. Oh it's OK mom, Mr Trump says they all are". Proud eh? No political correctness in your family.



..while Mr. Trump has done nothing but own property and employ persons in Britain, but yet, for stating policy relevant to issues in the United States, it is Britons seeking to ban him from their country..


Well there is that issue about misleading the Scottish government about his proposed £billion investment (and 6000 jobs) so he could get them to approve his golf course. Basically he lied..

By his own admission, Mr Trump has created no more than 200 of his promised 6,000 jobs and is thought to have spent just £25m on the scheme while bulldozing environmentally sensitive areas of the Scottish coast, according to a new analysis of the scheme’s finances.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/donald-trump-fails-to-deliver-on-golf-resort-jobs-pledge-8693854.html

Then he complained about wind farms, partly because one is planned which he says will spoil the view from his golf course. He took that one to court but lost the case. So yes, the man is a serious embarrassment.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 03:25 PM
I don't think SB cares!Isla, you can point out the facts as you have done, as a resident who lives in the UK but, your opinion isn't important.

skuthorp
12-23-2015, 03:25 PM
Of course more so than most political candidates no one should believe a word he says, and maybe that's his attraction? No one does, and they like the fact that he flouts the 'rules' openly and with great gusto rather than the normal politicians pseudo sincerity whilst promising the world with fingers crossed behind their backs.

17 Trump related posts on page 1 at this point, a couple on Hillary, the rest …………………
There you go

slug
12-23-2015, 03:57 PM
What has he done that he should be so embarrassed of? Shown hubris? Made some rude, impolitic comments?

Maybe we should have a constitutional amendment changing the office title to something like: "nice guy in-Chief" or "non-offender in charge."

I'm sure our friends in Britain would be suitably comforted, but if not, perhaps a digest from one of their own might reveal what Americans ought to really be embarrassed about.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/president-obama-is-to-blame-for-the-strength-of-isis/

yah...its a shame. libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria........

next president needs to take charge and get some jobs done.

enough talk .

Rich Jones
12-23-2015, 05:22 PM
Chances are that Trump supporters could rattle off the names of the entire Kardashian clan without any trouble, yet couldn't name any of their elected officials. They are a bunch of gullible, reality TV based know nothings.

If, God forbid, Trump were elected, I would be not only embarrassed, but totally mortified!!

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 05:35 PM
If he becomes president and I go to Eurpe, I'd tell anyone who asks me where I'm from, I'm gonna tell them CANADA!

Jim Bow
12-23-2015, 05:42 PM
I'm gonna be flying my Cascadia national flag.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 05:52 PM
Good idea, I could raise my pennant if I still owned a boat.

RonW
12-23-2015, 05:53 PM
Good idea, I could raise my pennant if I still owned a boat.

You don't own a boat ? Isn't there a rule against that ?

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 06:04 PM
I owned two for twenty years and not dinghies. And you? Of course, there were several pics of me on one of my boats on the pics. thread. Funny, I saw none of yours, not even a picture. You like walking on very thin ICE Ron.

isla
12-23-2015, 06:12 PM
If he becomes president and I go to Eurpe, I'd tell anyone who asks me where I'm from, I'm gonna tell them CANADA!

Jamie, you might be the first of a huge wave of refugees running from Trump and heading this way. Rest assured you will be welcome here :d

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 06:48 PM
Jamie, you might be the first of a huge wave of refugees running from Trump and heading this way. Rest assured you will be welcome here :d
We'll be asking for political asylum!:)

Tom Montgomery
12-23-2015, 06:49 PM
You don't own a boat ? Isn't there a rule against that ?
Only a clueless newbie would make that kind of remark regarding Jamie.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 06:55 PM
He's not New but, he is clearly clueless!. Hey, did you even see him post a picture of himself on the Formite boat/pic thread, No! To heck with posting ab boat picture of one of his.

skuthorp
12-23-2015, 07:00 PM
He's not here for boats.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 07:03 PM
Of course he isn't. It's too bad the admin hasn't apparently noticed.

cathouse willy
12-23-2015, 07:59 PM
I'm gonna be flying my Cascadia national flag.

Now there is a concept I could support. North California,oregon, washington, british columbia, yukon and alaska. All on the west side of the rockies and all except for the yukon bordering on the pacific. South california water hogs, you can stick with texas and mexico. Not likely to happen soon but an idea whose time is coming.

cathouse willy
12-23-2015, 08:46 PM
Actually Obama aka (berry) has already secured that position...........
As an observer from outside the USA you're as far from reality as an rww could be.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 08:47 PM
He tries! To him, that's a compliment.

RonW
12-23-2015, 08:51 PM
As an observer from outside the USA you're as far from reality as an rww could be.

That's because I subscribe to solid conservative policies, not socialist or communist policies....

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 08:53 PM
That's because I subscribe to solid conservative policies, not socialist or communist policies.... Which are unsound at best much of the time. I'm thrilled you are what you are! Almost a dying breed thank the lord!

Tom Montgomery
12-23-2015, 08:54 PM
That's because I subscribe to solid conservative policiess....
A bankrupt ideology.

John Smith
12-23-2015, 08:57 PM
The man is an ignorant buffoon. It's a safe bet that if trump is elected president the USA will become the laughing stock of the world.

IN many respects are we not already?

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 09:00 PM
Do you think RonW has a Trump statue in his bedroom, his defense of Trump leads me to think he might.

WszystekPoTrochu
12-23-2015, 09:01 PM
Did that poll say anything about Hillry?

You're not expecting a poll, any press released poll, to be anyhow neutral, do You?

Arizona Bay
12-23-2015, 09:26 PM
http://36.media.tumblr.com/7ab15ddaf50467070ff1738315a48528/tumblr_ny2zsftpfe1qz9ew8o1_500.jpg

cathouse willy
12-23-2015, 09:35 PM
what you subscribe to is nothing more than horse apples, calling any sort of progressive ideas communist or socialist shows your ignorance, you are truly a waste of time space and good air

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-23-2015, 09:37 PM
The man is an ignorant buffoon. It's a safe bet that if trump is elected president the USA will become the laughing stock of the world.


The fact that he is the GOP frontrunner has already been noticed by the rest of the world, and yes, we laugh, but it also frightens us.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-23-2015, 09:38 PM
That's because I subscribe to solid conservative policies, not socialist or communist policies....


Do you ever go outside, or read anything?

mdh
12-23-2015, 09:38 PM
You're not expecting a poll, any press released poll, to be anyhow neutral, do You?

Rum Pirate posted the other half of it and, all things considered, hillry didn't fare any better. That's with the press working overtime to trash Trump and whitewater, I mean,whitewash, hillry.

PeterSibley
12-23-2015, 09:41 PM
So much for American "exceptionalism".

Exceptional in so many ways.

GWBush, Trump.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 09:43 PM
Rum Pirate posted the other half of it and, all things considered, hillry didn't fare any better. That's with the press working overtime to trash Trump and whitewater, I mean,whitewash, hillry.If that's what you expected, you'd say it's true.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 09:51 PM
TRYING, TRYING, doesn't take much effort!

Garret
12-23-2015, 09:56 PM
Heck yes he'd be an embarrassment. Whatever political leanings our president has, one thing we should expect is a modicum of manners, education, and social grace. Trump has none of these & the comparisons with Putin are apt. Of course somehow the RW is enamored of the communist Putin, so one can see their interest in Trump, but no one ever said they made sense.

Sky Blue
12-23-2015, 09:56 PM
It takes effort to have made more than 160 posts already today, on top of more than 130 yesterday.

160 posts in a conservative 12 hours time is making a post about every 4 minutes or so for all those hours.

hokiefan
12-23-2015, 10:08 PM
It takes effort to have made more than 160 posts already today, on top of more than 130 yesterday.

160 posts in a conservative 12 hours time is making a post about every 4 minutes or so for all those hours.

It takes effort to count those posts, and lack of imagination to think that detail matters to anyone other than yourself.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 10:10 PM
So, you know what, you can quibble all you want about the number of posts I have. It takes that many to get the righties to see where they are just plain wrong, Even posting links, articles, facts don't work Certainly denying logic doesn't. I'm surprised I've had only 130 posts today considering who I'm dealing with. Obviously, I need to post MORE! Give me a reason not to and I won't. How's that SB?

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 10:14 PM
UUMM, answer me this, why do I almost feel obligated to post so many? THINK ABOUT IT!Tell me when you find a clue!

Ian McColgin
12-23-2015, 10:16 PM
When one has a point, one makes it. When one has no point, one counts posts or attacks character or makes non-specific claims like "You just can't seem to get it right." [#83]

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-23-2015, 10:17 PM
The liberal press is trying to slander the front runner. After all it's in the play book.

That might be true of American liberals, for their own sake, but from where I stand Donald Trump is like a cartoon character. I mean, how could you take someone who says the things he says seriously? Most of his comments are either rude, insulting, racist, or just plain wrong. He hardly ever says anything of substance, and when he does, he says something really stupid, that is easily refuted. I don't get it. I understand there is a following for almost anyone.... Look at Jim Jones, but for President of the USA? I thought Americans were smarter than this..... and I have always thought a good chunk of America isn't all that smart, just like any other country... but really?!?!?

Sky Blue
12-23-2015, 10:18 PM
It takes effort to count those posts

Perhaps for you, hokiefan. For me, I'd say about a minute and a half. No big deal. In that time, Jamie was halfway through yet another one.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 10:21 PM
Keep up the good work. I enjoy every one of your posts.So, you're not complaining about the number of posts as you did earlier! Change of heart or just direction?

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 10:24 PM
That was a very specific claim. Sorry you missed it but it doesn't surprise me. And that's your answer! I thought you had some gray matter upstairs but, it seems as though it's in neutral.l

David G
12-23-2015, 10:26 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12375995_1658109581125992_6756225474573784370_n.pn g?oh=373e70d2a2a7d800e37e0fe3008cf7a8&oe=56D7AC57

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 10:27 PM
Love IT!

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 10:29 PM
True in many cases but, FOX is leading the charge.

S.V. Airlie
12-23-2015, 10:32 PM
Perhaps for you, hokiefan. For me, I'd say about a minute and a half. No big deal. In that time, Jamie was halfway through yet another one.And you still don't get them!

PeterSibley
12-23-2015, 10:32 PM
That might be true of American liberals, for their own sake, but from where I stand Donald Trump is like a cartoon character. I mean, how could you take someone who says the things he says seriously? Most of his comments are either rude, insulting, racist, or just plain wrong. He hardly ever says anything of substance, and when he does, he says something really stupid, that is easily refuted. I don't get it. I understand there is a following for almost anyone.... Look at Jim Jones, but for President of the USA? I thought Americans were smarter than this..... and I have always thought a good chunk of America isn't all that smart, just like any other country... but really?!?!?

Even our rednecks laugh about him, I know I've asked a few.

The OP is about embarrassment and Australians know what that feels like just having got rid of Tony Abbott..... but Abbott was a statesman compared to Trump!

Peter Malcolm Jardine
12-23-2015, 10:39 PM
Yep, the American electorate is stupid and unduly influenced by the biased press.


There are lots of ill informed Canadians too..... but a lot of them don't bother to vote. Yet, Canada did elect Stephen Harper, which was weird.

PeterSibley
12-23-2015, 10:40 PM
I'm a greenneck. ;) Consider yourself corrected.

Sky Blue
12-23-2015, 10:40 PM
When one has a point, one makes it. When one has no point, one counts posts or attacks character or makes non-specific claims like "You just can't seem to get it right." [#83]

Some of us endure a lot of silliness, Ian, with some of us making serious points on matters here and watching our discussion threads filled with endless bile from those with nothing substantive to offer. As one observes it occurring elsewhere as well, on any number of threads, one could begin to become curious about just how much silly drivel is being spewed into this Forum by some here. As noted, some here do it with such abandon, indeed, so much so, one wonders how persons could eat, manage bodily functions, etc. A post every 4 minutes?

On what basis should such persons be taken seriously at all?

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 10:03 AM
A few final comments on the fencing match the other night.

Firstly, it was a pleasure to be able to participate with a few republicans over politics etc, the other day and your efforts to pit yourselves against little ole me! If nothing you were funny a funny bunch of misfits. I guess it takes a few to to participate with any real hopes to best me but, never mind!. Your attempts to draw blood or bruise me in any way were extremely feeble and the conclusion, as expected, ended extremely badly and, I suspect, embarrassing for you. But it provided me with a lot of entertainment and many chuckles just watching you spin, I thank you.
If you knew my background, dealing with herds like you were common occurrences during my school years. Of course, I doubt, even knowing wouldn't have helped anyway. I dealt with adolescent classmates all the time in elementary school and high school. Their attempts to best me were very sim. to yours in fact but, they acted like adolescents not adults ( more embarrassing for you I suspect). These attempts were as feeble as yours and so too, were the end results, disasters obviously. Well, I got through both schools and reached my objectives; scholastic awards, respect from the faculty, having a choice to attend the next school or college, and a good idea of what I wanted to do in life. The herds,of course, didn't achieve any of these themselves, not even close as many became druggies with no real future and couldn't achieve much of anything. By the time of my two graduations from the schools I ettended rolled around, All that was left for me to do was, just grab my diploma, go out the doors with a smile on my face, a song in my heart, and a "goodbye suckers" on my lips along with the knowledge "I done good". meanwhile the herd always being extremely persistent in their quests to best me, were in a tiny, little room, quietly, sitting in a circle and asking themselves,"What the heck happened and where did we do wrong?":)

Peerie Maa
12-24-2015, 10:27 AM
Mr. Trump has done nothing but own property and employ persons in Britain,

It is one of the most childish, embarrassing and irresponsible displays of purported social virtue that I've ever seen.
If I remember correctly he has done nothing more than destroy a Site of Special Scientific Interest and re reneged on an Undertaking to build a hotel

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 11:21 AM
Nick, since this is a thread about embassment, I wonder if you've considered that you apparently spend many hours of nearly every day spewing bile and hatred toward America, and certain of her people and politicians.

Literally hours, Nick. Virtually every day. In fact, I can't recall you ever saying anything positive about the US, ever. Are you a hater, Nick, and if so, how did this come about? What motivates you for this?

Peerie Maa
12-24-2015, 11:40 AM
Nick, since this is a thread about embassment, I wonder if you've considered that you apparently spend many hours of nearly every day spewing bile and hatred toward America, and certain of her people and politicians.

Literally hours, Nick. Virtually every day. In fact, I can't recall you ever saying anything positive about the US, ever. Are you a hater, Nick, and if so, how did this come about? What motivates you for this?
Do you actually take pride in your politicians and your political system? Is the anything positive to say about your politics?
Then again you have a track record of posting crappy threads about the UK and the EU. Actually "hate" is a word often misapplied by some of a certain political Caste on here. Offering honest criticism is not an act of hatred but of a positive interest.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 11:41 AM
Well, it is about his embarrassment but, Trump's never embarrassed, never apologizes, and expects others to. In other words, Nick's post FITS!

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 11:53 AM
chappy threads about the UK

Nonsense. Such threads are fair comment, yet mostly were not received fairly by the UK contingent here. Instead they were met with reflexive defensiveness and dishonesty, quite frankly. Moreover, they are hardly representative of the larger part of my time spent here and in no case were they political bile. In addition, I have on many occasions declared my love for your country and her people and culture, but as noted, I've no recollection of similar sentiment from you about the US in any way.

Have you ever been to the US?

Jim Bow
12-24-2015, 12:00 PM
Is it true that Andrew Dice Clay is a Trump speechwriter?

Peerie Maa
12-24-2015, 12:03 PM
^ That the UK contingent here did not agree with you tells me that you were most likely in the wrong, yes?
Cross Post with Jim

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 12:07 PM
SB, maybe you should go to the UK and talk to the residents, When I lived/biked there, I heard a lot of positives about the US but, not on US politics. (logical) BIG DIFFERENCE!

lupussonic
12-24-2015, 12:07 PM
The amount of posts on this thread that Nick writes never seems to be diluted from intelligent foresightful and moderate thoughts in my opinion.

All nations have problems with their leaders, just some more than others. There hasn't been much intelligence or cool headed choices made, or debate occurring in the US for many years, mostly hot headed reactionary spume. The rest of the world is standing underneath, so pull your pants up.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 12:11 PM
The amount of posts on this thread that Nick writes never seems to be diluted from intelligent foresightful and moderate thoughts in my opinion.

All nations have problems with their leaders, just some more than others. There hasn't been much intelligence or cool headed choices made, or debate occurring in the US for many years, mostly hot headed reactionary spume. The rest of the world is standing underneath, so pull your pants up.And that's why it drives the right nuts!:)

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 12:12 PM
Is it true that Andrew Dice Clay is a Trump speechwriter?

Actually, I would doubt that, Jim. I just read a piece yesterday where Trump was interviewed and noted that he doesn't typically prepare speeches and proceeds to his appearances with no notes or prompts other than those kept in memory for points to be made to a given audience.

Given the massive number of speeches he gives and rallies he conducts, I'd say that is rather exceptional, inasmuch as he is neither a professional politician nor a regular public speaker, such as a college lecturer, etc.

People can object to his philistinism and impolitic remarks all they want, but Mr. Trump has proven himself to be an exceptionally talented individual in myriad ways throughout his career and now for this campaign, where it should be remembered that he is a political novice, never having held nor campaigned for political office before. Mr. Trump is also 70 years old, iirc, which makes these appearances all the more remarkable. He has the energy of a 25 year old. Strikes quite the contrast to the lifeless dolt currently occupying the White House, to say nothing of his many detractors.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 12:16 PM
He's an actor,is what actors do. Every speech or interview follows the same script, He knows the game, he's had enough of them in the past and he doesn't need notes. He was a TV celeb.I can't believe you think his comments are "off the cuff"! Remember hasn't he said " I don't make mistakes!",

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 12:19 PM
^ That the UK contingent here did not agree with you tells me that you were most likely in the wrong, yes?
Cross Post with Jim

To the contrary, most of them avoided the topics entirely iirc. That someone from the US might be conversant on UK politics and culture in general was entirely lost on them as well (rather surprisingly, I suppose). I follow the news and issues in the UK because I care about your nation and her people. Can you say the same for the reasons why you follow events in the US and in the manner in which you comment here about them?

Honestly? Regarding my threads about the UK, I sensed no real desire for Brits to explore those issues, and, I detected a great deal of chauvinism, in fact, in the sense that some of the Brit commentators here (well, mostly you, Nick) have no end of criticism for the US, and yet, are reflexively defensive when problems and challenges relating to their own nation are raised by a foreigner who is sufficiently conversant on those issues.

If you are here to primarily criticize the US, however, I can understand why discussions about issues back home won't feed the bulldog.

isla
12-24-2015, 12:20 PM
Nonsense. Such threads are fair comment, yet mostly were not received fairly by the UK contingent here. Instead they were met with reflexive defensiveness and dishonesty, quite frankly. Moreover, they are hardly representative of the larger part of my time spent here and in no case were they political bile. In addition, I have on many occasions declared my love for your country and her people and culture, but as noted, I've no recollection of similar sentiment from you about the US in any way.

Have you ever been to the US?

I can answer that one because you probably put me in the same bag as Nick and the rest of "the UK contingent"..

My wife is American and is still a US citizen despite living in the UK for many years. I have been to America more times than I can remember. I have a huge extended family of in-laws living in Boston, Long Island, Baltimore, Cleveland and LA. I have spent long periods in New Mexico, Baltimore, Boston and Wareham Mass., and short periods in Portsmouth NH, Baltimore, New York and Chicago. I have posted a few times about the joys of sailing in Buzzard's Bay. Various in-laws visit us here in Scotland every year and I love them all dearly. Next?

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 12:23 PM
Funny an American telling UK citizen what UK citizens think. I find it strange!

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 12:41 PM
I can answer that one because you probably put me in the same bag as Nick and the rest of "the UK contingent"..

My wife is American and is still a US citizen despite living in the UK for many years. I have been to America more times than I can remember. I have a huge extended family of in-laws living in Boston, Long Island, Baltimore, Cleveland and LA. I have spent long periods in New Mexico, Baltimore, Boston and Wareham Mass., and short periods in Portsmouth NH, Baltimore, New York and Chicago. I have posted a few times about the joys of sailing in Buzzard's Bay. Various in-laws visit us here in Scotland every year and I love them all dearly. Next?


Well, it must be said Isla that I've really not seen you comment on US politics a great deal on this Forum, certainly not daily nor endlessly repetitively nor with any element of dishonesty or hatred (quite frankly). I don't recall any meaningful participation by you in any of my UK threads as far as that goes. So no, I don't put you in any kind of bag with anyone else.

I have also long enjoyed your music commentaries and histories. You have made your feelings well known about Mr. Trump, and I certainly don't begrudge you that, though I do consider the petition business to be altogether silly in perspective (to say nothing of the virtue signaling aspect of it) and have said so here. Criticisms of Mr. Trump are hardly unique to Britain, but, BTAIM, I think it is fair to say that you've not been open to arguments that the petition business is silly (a perspective many Brits share, btw).

Indeed, apart from the absurdity of the petition in the abstract, I wonder if the irony of the free expression it represents is lost on those seeking to punish Mr. Trump for his own expression. What is your thought on this? When did Brits become so sensitive to such matters, and why? Don't they see that their petition action only raised the profile of the remarks in the first place?

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 12:49 PM
That someone from the US might be conversant on UK politics and culture in general was entirely lost on them as well . Hell SB, I lived there (UK) for more than two years, read their papers, chatted with the people on the streets and at the pubs, the parents of my students, shop keepers etc.. I heard lots about UK politics but, I also learned something else, I didn't know as much as I thought I did being kind of a European History buff. AND you can sit here in sunny Cal. and think you are up on UK politics and the political thoughts they possess on American politics. I'm sorry but,you'd be funny if what you posts wasn't so bloody sad.

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 01:01 PM
Well, Jamie, I can tell you are upset with me for pointing out just how much silliness you pour into this Forum every day. Literally hundreds of posts. Just keep in mind that I am not the one doing the pouring. Nor it is unreasonable for me to have a level of upset with your frequent drivel on threads where serious discussion is trying to be had by people offering intelligent and thoughtful content to the people of this Forum. In my judgment, the frequency of your vacuous interjections detract from this effort, yet you frequently claim a desire to have serious engagement with people. Obviously I see a disconnect there. I invite you to consider this for your own benefit rather than going on the attack.

It is Christmas. Why don't you give me (us) something real of yourself instead of your usual business? An example might be thoughts and discussion on your time in Britain. Give me some of your honest thoughts on that instead of just quick one liners about it. People you met, places you enjoyed, why you were there, how it was that you came to be there, did you sail, what boats did you see and favor, etc.

isla
12-24-2015, 01:17 PM
An example might be thoughts and discussion on your time in Britain. Give me some of your honest thoughts on that instead of just quick one liners about it. People you met, places you enjoyed, why you were there, how it was that you came to be there, did you sail, what boats did you see and favor, etc.

I recall Jamie posting a very detailed thread about his experiences cycling in Scotland, but that was before your time. We are also discussing that on the Boleskine thread right now.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 01:24 PM
Well, Jamie, I can tell you are upset with me for pointing out just how much silliness you pour into this Forum every day. Literally hundreds of posts. Just keep in mind that I am not the one doing the pouring. Nor it is unreasonable for me to have a level of upset with your frequent drivel on threads where serious discussion is trying to be had by people offering intelligent and thoughtful content to the people of this Forum. In my judgment, the frequency of your vacuous interjections detract from this effort, yet you frequently claim a desire to have serious engagement with people. Obviously I see a disconnect there. I invite you to consider this for your own benefit rather than going on the attack.

It is Christmas. Why don't you give me (us) something real of yourself instead of your usual business? An example might be thoughts and discussion on your time in Britain. Give me some of your honest thoughts on that instead of just quick one liners about it. People you met, places you enjoyed, why you were there, how it was that you came to be there, did you sail, what boats did you see and favor, etc.Yup, I posted my thoughts on you and a other few righties trying to pit yourselves against me, You might enjoy it, I did pretty well making you three or four righties look extremely foolish. You probably would get the inferences though.t

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 01:26 PM
I recall Jamie posting a very detailed thread about his experiences cycling in Scotland, but that was before your time. We are also discussing that on the Boleskine thread right now.
Yup, I had to go back to my journal to check some facts, I've got 3-4 pages a day in it, lots of observations, chats I had with locals, little stories, the lot. I'm glad I still have it.

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 01:28 PM
Get over yourself, Jamie. Just a couple of days ago I commented favorably on that wonderful photo of you at the helm with Ian sitting next to you.

I've hardly pitted myself against you. I am asking (and have asked) that you be respectful and have a filter for your stuff when it comes to my content. If you don't want to do that, hey, that's on you. I'll survive it.

dbrown
12-24-2015, 01:33 PM
Were you libs embarrassed when Bill ejackulated on that young girl in the Oval Office?

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 01:37 PM
Get over yourself, Jamie. Just a couple of days ago I commented favorably on that wonderful photo of you at the helm with Ian sitting next to you.

I've hardly pitted myself against you. I am asking (and have asked) that you be respectful and have a filter for your stuff when it comes to my content. If you don't want to do that, hey, that's on you. I'll survive it.Exactly my point for you! Get over it, your not exceptional by a long shot and telling UK residents what they know is a bloomin' joke when you haven't actually gone there. See if that gets stuck in your craw! And you did, pit yourself and your buddies. Look at the posts with me in the middle.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 01:40 PM
Were you libs embarrassed when Bill ejackulated on that young girl in the Oval Office?When you have something to post that is relevant, by all means post. If you spelled the highlighted word correctly it would have helped this post too, it would almost be funny then.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 01:45 PM
What did you put in your coffee and how much did you put in KayMAC?

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 02:11 PM
Hey, I've heard you have a step daughter Right, OKAY should I continue? It's against my policy to post questions about your wives without permiswsion but, one thought comes to mind,"do you live in a glass house by chance?" KayMac.

Having marital affairs is more common than you'd expect. Both men and women step out on each other for a variety of reasons. It's wrong to say that Hillary failed as a wife,

Garret
12-24-2015, 02:32 PM
Of course they weren't-----it's about their speed. It did prove that Hillary failed as a wife also.

Why isn't SB calling this "hate"?

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 02:35 PM
To him, no!

skuthorp
12-24-2015, 02:52 PM
He's an actor,is what actors do. Every speech or interview follows the same script, He knows the game, he's had enough of them in the past and he doesn't need notes. He was a TV celeb.I can't believe you think his comments are "off the cuff"! Remember hasn't he said " I don't make mistakes!",
SV and I are on the same page more or less re Trump. He certainly knows his game, and is in the mould of the demagog.
SB may be right that he has the Rep. nomination 'stitched up', or not. But he has I think changed the way politics works in the USA today. Whether it will continue depends on the normally non voters. If they turn out look out.

And as for #128, it says a great deal about the poster.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 02:54 PM
SV and I are on the same page more or less re Trump. He certainly knows his game, and is in the mould of the demagog.
SB may be right that he has the Rep. nomination 'stitched up', or not. But he has I think changed the way politics works in the USA today. Whether it will continue depends on the normally non voters. If they turn out look out.

And as for #128, it says a great deal about the poster.Nothing good!

skuthorp
12-24-2015, 03:12 PM
"Trump plays by HIS rules. He is a leader."
I agree KMac, but be careful what you wish for.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 03:20 PM
SPEW!. Windex! PAPER TOWEL!

hokiefan
12-24-2015, 03:30 PM
I would be highly embarrassed for our country if Trump is elected President. It is already embarrassing that there are more than 3 people in the country stupid enough to think he is fit to be President.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 03:39 PM
3 people in the country stupid enough to think he is fit to be President.

THAT MANY!:(

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 04:34 PM
I would be highly embarrassed for our country if Trump is elected President. It is already embarrassing that there are more than 3 people in the country stupid enough to think he is fit to be President.

You see, this is the unseriousness I refer to. What if he did a fabulous job as President? Performance be damned because we think he's rude and impolitic? It's juvenile, and is precisely why many Americans deserve a good and healthy dose of Mr. Trump and why so many are enjoying the show he's putting on for these people.

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 04:45 PM
Serious question: what matter anyway if one is relatively prideful or embarrassed about political leaders?

What relevance does it have one way or the other apart from the ability to virtue signal publicly?

It strikes me that such things really have little to do with the relevant political leader in question, with such expressions rather more about one's own self-perceived standing with others. After all, isn't that what embarrassment is all about, in the end?

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 04:51 PM
You see, this is the unseriousness I refer to. What if he did a fabulous job as President? Performance be damned because we think he's rude and impolitic? It's juvenile, and is precisely why many Americans deserve a good and healthy dose of Mr. Trump and why so many are enjoying the show he's putting on for these people. Seriously, you think? You're telling me you think he is? Where are you hiding, in a cave with no TV,radio a nespaper, Do you want to read articles written by people he has out right screwed to make a buck, steal a buck or whatever it took to take what he wants, Good economical practices should not include outright theft by legal ways. I've read a few and they are not just about his screwing the big guys he's in competition with, he'll screw his own mother to make a gain, literally

PeterSibley
12-24-2015, 04:56 PM
Would he be an embarrassment?
Yes.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 04:59 PM
SB, they just want to sing kumbaya with Hillary and carve out more entitlements.It's more important not to have the republicans control all three branches of the government (ex SC). I wouldn't let a fox guard the hen house from the inside.,

skuthorp
12-24-2015, 05:03 PM
Just remember folks, that whatever we post here is not going to make a happen'orth of difference to the result.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 05:09 PM
I'm aware of that skuthorp but, I hold on to the fallacy, Hope grows eternal.

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 05:20 PM
And to tease it out just a little further... Precisely to whom does this embarrassment run?

One's own family around the kitchen table? The leadership of ISIS? The Chinese delegation in town for talks on fair labor practices? Various and sundry totalitarian and absolutist leaders scattered across the globe? The Saudis? The blokes at work? The UK contingent? :)

Quick story: I was gathered with professional peers for a training many years ago in the Bay Area and at lunch the discussion veered to political matters, with too-quick compliments given to the Democrat running for President, murmured appreciation for the liberal articles of faith of the moment, etc. It was all very smug. Too smug, in fact, for the cautious observer. Though well rehearsed, the notes rang just slightly discordant.

I had the sneaking suspicion that they were all a bunch of right wingers laboring under social desirability bias (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/polls-may-actually-underestimate-trumps-support-study-finds/ar-BBnMHNc?li=BBnb7Kz) without recognizing that they were in fact grouped with like-minded individuals. Just a speculative observation over lunch, of course, but I'd bet a steak dinner on it.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 05:33 PM
"I hear, I hear!" at the barber's. Excellent place for good old run of the mill, unsubstantiated gossip.

Tom Montgomery
12-24-2015, 06:13 PM
Merry Christmas, everyone!

Captain Intrepid
12-24-2015, 06:19 PM
I'm sorry to report, but the very fact that Trump is a viable candidate for president itself is already embarrassing for America.

He is without question a strong leader. Uncompromising he makes his own rules, controls the narrative, and is doing an expert job of whipping his target market into a frenzy.

That doesn't make him a great leader, let alone a good one. It's easy to fulfil all those requirements if you're not concerned about your proposals being practical, good, or popular with more than just your base.

PeterSibley
12-24-2015, 06:25 PM
I think we can all think of a few similar "leaders'' with similar qualifications ......

PeterSibley
12-24-2015, 06:27 PM
And to tease it out just a little further... Precisely to whom does this embarrassment run?

One's own family around the kitchen table? The leadership of ISIS? The Chinese delegation in town for talks on fair labor practices? Various and sundry totalitarian and absolutist leaders scattered across the globe? The Saudis? The blokes at work? The UK contingent? :)

Quick story: I was gathered with professional peers for a training many years ago in the Bay Area and at lunch the discussion veered to political matters, with too-quick compliments given to the Democrat running for President, murmured appreciation for the liberal articles of faith of the moment, etc. It was all very smug. Too smug, in fact, for the cautious observer. Though well rehearsed, the notes rang just slightly discordant.

I had the sneaking suspicion that they were all a bunch of right wingers laboring under social desirability bias (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/polls-may-actually-underestimate-trumps-support-study-finds/ar-BBnMHNc?li=BBnb7Kz) without recognizing that they were in fact grouped with like-minded individuals. Just a speculative observation over lunch, of course, but I'd bet a steak dinner on it.

I'm impressed that you are so insensitive to the world's opinion of the USA. Very American SB.

edited to add, but I can understand that if Trump is an exemplar of the kind of values you admire in America you would feel no embarrassment .

hokiefan
12-24-2015, 06:28 PM
I'm sorry to report, but the very fact that Trump is a viable candidate for president itself is already embarrassing for America.

He is without question a strong leader. Uncompromising he makes his own rules, controls the narrative, and is doing an expert job of whipping his target market into a frenzy.

That doesn't make him a great leader, let alone a good one. It's easy to fulfil all those requirements if you're not concerned about your proposals being practical, good, or popular with more than just your base.

Trump has never demonstrated leadership, ever. He's a very rich man who buys his way.

Osborne Russell
12-24-2015, 07:14 PM
And to tease it out just a little further... Precisely to whom does this embarrassment run?

To real Americans.


Fifty percent of American voters say they would be “embarrassed” if Donald Trump were president . . .

Bobcat
12-24-2015, 07:18 PM
Trump has never demonstrated leadership, ever. He's a very rich man who buys his way.

Who started with inherited wealth.

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 07:54 PM
Let's unpack this a little more.

Britons are said to be up in arms over Trump's statements and proposals regarding Muslims, to include: (1) non-citizen Muslims ought not to be admitted to the US until vetting procedures are known and improved; (2) the possibility that mosques ought to be closed if terror is fomented at such mosques; and (3) that he would be open to the idea of a registry on conditions.

Does the British government (or other European governments) employ such policies in greater or lesser form? Do other nations, such as China or Russia (for example) execute such policies? If so, how is it that there are no petitions to exclude their political leaders from Britain (keeping in mind that to date, Mr. Trump is nothing more than a private citizen)?

Mr. Cameron's government does not admit Syrian refugees into Britain proper until their offshore vetting process is completed. Why has this not been protested on the order that Mr. Trump's statement has? Both bans are part and parcel to the same idea: mistrust of persons based on group membership with no specific evidence of any wrongdoing.

Syrian refugees do not come into Britain unless and until the government says so. Indeed, in the the wake of the attacks in Paris, Mr. Cameron vigorously touted his approach on the basis of the safety of the British people, and did so on the Parliament floor. Why is Cameron's policy acceptable and Mr. Trump's not so?

Mr. Hollande's government has closed at least 3 mosques already, with another 150 or so slated for closure.

Why is there no petition prohibiting Mr. Hollande's entry to Britain? Why can France actually and physically close mosques but Mr. Trump should be barred from Britain for simply talking about the idea of doing so in the US?

Both nations are surveillance states of a greater character than the US is, and neither have 1st nor 4th Amendment protections of a quantum similar to that in the US. Inasmuch as that is so, it beggars belief there are no registries or "lists" of any relevant kind in either nation.

What I think we have here is a big pile of anti-American chauvinism, laid at the feet of Mr. Trump, all because he isn't polite enough in describing processes that the American government doesn't engage in and which European governments IN FACT DO, to a greater or lesser extent.

lupussonic
12-24-2015, 08:23 PM
Let's unpack this a little more.

Britons are said to be up in arms over Trump's statements and proposals regarding Muslims, to include: (1) non-citizen Muslims ought not to be admitted to the US until vetting procedures are known and improved; (2) the possibility that mosques ought to be closed if terror is fomented at such mosques; and (3) that he would be open to the idea of a registry on conditions.

Does the British government (or other European governments) employ such policies in greater or lesser form? Do other nations, such as China or Russia (for example) execute such policies? If so, how is it that there are no petitions to exclude their political leaders from Britain (keeping in mind that to date, Mr. Trump is nothing more than a private citizen)?

Mr. Cameron's government does not admit Syrian refugees into Britain proper until their offshore vetting process is completed. Why has this not been protested on the order that Mr. Trump's statement has? Both bans are part and parcel to the same idea: mistrust of persons based on group membership with no specific evidence of any wrongdoing.

Syrian refugees do not come into Britain unless and until the government says so. Indeed, in the the wake of the attacks in Paris, Mr. Cameron vigorously touted his approach on the basis of the safety of the British people, and did so on the Parliament floor. Why is Cameron's policy acceptable and Mr. Trump's not so?

Mr. Hollande's government has closed at least 3 mosques already, with another 150 or so slated for closure.

Why is there no petition prohibiting Mr. Hollande's entry to Britain? Why can France actually and physically close mosques but Mr. Trump should be barred from Britain for simply talking about the idea of doing so in the US?

Both nations are surveillance states of a greater character than the US is, and neither have 1st nor 4th Amendment protections of a quantum similar to that in the US. Inasmuch as that is so, it beggars belief there are no registries or "lists" of any relevant kind in either nation.

What I think we have here is a big pile of anti-American chauvinism, laid at the feet of Mr. Trump, all because he isn't polite enough in describing processes that the American government doesn't engage in and which European governments IN FACT DO, to a greater or lesser extent.

Why, given 9/11, is the US immigration policy not robust enough?

Your guys used to have a questionnaire on the plane, with a tick box, asking us if we were terrorists...

The recent shootings in San Bernadino were carried out by resident Americans, no? But Trump has used it to whip up anti Muslim reaction, to further his political aims. It's horse doo.

"Offshore vetting process" is a ghetto in Calais, nothing more. We have no clue how to deal with the number of refugees wanting to enter the UK. It is shameful to most UK people, who want to help.

Please stop feeling like we are picking on you, it's not the case, we, and the rest of the world are still smarting from you electing an illiterate jibbering moron puppet TWICE, to be your president. It is not a UK/USA thing.

Is is it any wonder the rest of the world has the jitters?

Jimmy W
12-24-2015, 08:25 PM
..., but I can understand that if Trump is an exemplar of the kind of values you admire in America you would feel no embarrassment .

Amen, Peter!

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 09:04 PM
So also compare Mr. Trump to Mr. Cruz for embarrassment purposes.

Mr. Trump is a NY business magnate that is media savvy, highly intelligent and experienced in dealing in extremely complex matters at the highest levels of government and has done it successfully for decades. Yes, he's egomaniacal.

Mr. Cruz is a brilliant lawyer but highly combative and intensely disliked by virtually everyone in Washington. Mr. Cruz is significantly more conservative than Mr. Trump is as well. Embarrassingly so, at least to me. Wouldn't one be more embarrassed internationally to have the evangelical Ted Cruz, oily, smiling and ever so polite, representing the country than the highly-skilled but rude uber-businessman Mr. Trump?

Think about it.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 09:06 PM
Experienced in Gov. Looking for tax loopholes!What's embarrassing is Trump doesn't realize he an embarrassment.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 09:19 PM
Sorry, not specific enough. The list of adjectives is way too short!:)

Sky Blue
12-24-2015, 09:20 PM
I've already thought about it

You're probably going to get one or other, Glen. Decide which one embarrasses you the least and get on board, pardner!

Tom Montgomery
12-24-2015, 09:25 PM
Merry Christmas, everyone!

Pour a glass of wine and relax.

LeeG
12-24-2015, 09:25 PM
http://videos.usatoday.net/Brightcove2/29906170001/2015/11/29906170001_4598115157001_thumb-Wochit95551493.jpg?pubId=29906170001

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 09:31 PM
You're probably going to get one or other, Glen. Decide which one embarrasses you the least and get on board, pardner!The choice is easy! And I think a majority has jumped on board. If Sanders wins, he's the one I'd vote for as well. I wouldn't vote "Trump" for dog catcher and even then, I'd check to see who is running against him. Did you see wow much his tax plan would cost the US? 28billion, or something like that over ten years. AND he's supposed to be good on financial matters. Good for him I'll bet!You must be one of the 1%!

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 09:35 PM
n analysis of Donald Trump’s tax plan by a research institute reveals two interesting points: the U.S. government would get a lot poorer, and the wealthy would get a lot richer.
In the Tax Policy Center’s analysis (http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/2000560-an-analysis-of-donald-trumps-tax-plan.pdf) of the Republican candidate’s proposal, the institute said that Trump’s plan would reduce federal revenues by $9.5 trillion over its first decade, and an additional $15.0 trillion over the next 10 years. Including interest costs, the Center said, the proposal would add $11.2 trillion to the national debt by 2026.
To put that into perspective, Trump’s tax plan would cause the debt to GDP ratio to hit 180% by 2036, the Center found.

S.V. Airlie
12-24-2015, 11:41 PM
They don't think we do considering who might become president I think they care about what An american, especially one red candidate, take your pick, will do in Europe and the rest of the world because what he does effects them. A republican win will be a flamin' disaster for Europeans and I think they know it..

PeterSibley
12-25-2015, 12:26 AM
So also compare Mr. Trump to Mr. Cruz for embarrassment purposes.

Mr. Trump is a NY business magnate that is media savvy, highly intelligent and experienced in dealing in extremely complex matters at the highest levels of government and has done it successfully for decades. Yes, he's egomaniacal.

Mr. Cruz is a brilliant lawyer but highly combative and intensely disliked by virtually everyone in Washington. Mr. Cruz is significantly more conservative than Mr. Trump is as well. Embarrassingly so, at least to me. Wouldn't one be more embarrassed internationally to have the evangelical Ted Cruz, oily, smiling and ever so polite, representing the country than the highly-skilled but rude uber-businessman Mr. Trump?

Think about it.

Neither of the above.

Sky Blue
12-25-2015, 12:50 AM
Peter, I have decided that you and lupussonic should have a vote (he asked for one a couple of days ago). No other forum foreigners get one.

Use it wisely.

PeterSibley
12-25-2015, 12:53 AM
Bernie for President, that may not be wisely chosen but it is heart felt.

Thanks for the opportunity and Merry Christmas Mr Blue.