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ron ll
12-11-2015, 01:47 PM
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--r2u4RVWz--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/mjnw1udzkl9opvlgo5up.gif

Norman Bernstein
12-11-2015, 01:51 PM
That has about as much chance of making it into an actual airliner, as the original 747 cocktail lounge on the upper deck.... if it doesn't generate revenue (i.e., if it isn't a seat with a paying passenger), the airlines aren't interested.

Canoez
12-11-2015, 01:53 PM
First class flying? What's that? (MOOO!!!)

Dave Hadfield
12-11-2015, 02:02 PM
I'm not really keen on having more holes in the fuselage than I can avoid.

I'm travelling first-class these days -- in the front left seat of a 777, with a Pilot's Rest facility above the Executive seats. Two 3-hour watches, two 3-hour rests in a quiet, private place, and then we land in China.

It only took 35 years of seniority to achieve!

Dave

Norman Bernstein
12-11-2015, 02:16 PM
I'm not really keen on having more holes in the fuselage than I can avoid.

I'm travelling first-class these days -- in the front left seat of a 777, with a Pilot's Rest facility above the Executive seats. Two 3-hour watches, two 3-hour rests in a quiet, private place, and then we land in China.

It only took 35 years of seniority to achieve!

Dave

Did you have to spend years, earning minimum wage, with some regional airline, flying little planes, to get there?

I imagine that the percentage of pilots who fly like you do is tiny....

CWSmith
12-11-2015, 02:22 PM
I'm not really keen on having more holes in the fuselage than I can avoid.

I'm sorry, but that is the only seat that is better than the pilot's seat! I agree it will never happen, but I'd love to sit there for just an hour.

Dave Hadfield
12-11-2015, 02:26 PM
No, I was lucky. And it was totally a matter of luck. At the time when I left Instructing at a small flying school, I had a job offer from a small airline up north, and was all set to go, when The Airline called. I had a brand-new ATR license, and they were beginning a massive hiring cycle, and I got in.

So, I was in the right place at the right time with the right qualifications -- and I'd flown 7 days a week to do that (instructing 6 days a week and dropping Jumpers on Sundays) -- but I was still very lucky that the door opened.

However that was in 1979. Then came the 80s, with hyper inflation, recession, privatization, de-regulation, 2-man crews instead of 3 man, and the advent of fax machines and business mail. For pilots, that decade sucked.

I was almost 17 years an F/O, flying DC-9s for the most parts, puddle-jumping, and very Junior. I paid lots of dues, even at a Major.

Dave

Norman Bernstein
12-11-2015, 02:33 PM
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I was almost 17 years an F/O, flying DC-9s for the most parts, puddle-jumping, and very Junior. I paid lots of dues, even at a Major.

I would imagine that flying a 777 must be like heaven, compared to the comparatively primitive DC-9. Also, considering what strikes me as a pretty light overseas load (3 hrs on, 3 hrs off), your biggest problem must be jetlag. :)

Hwyl
12-11-2015, 02:39 PM
Thread drift. I used to get upgraded all the time. I has not happened in ten years.. What tricks am I missing?

Nicholas Scheuer
12-11-2015, 02:44 PM
I remember that lounge on my first 747 ride. I remember more legroom throughout, too. Fuel prices have been slashed, the airlines are raking in cash by the boxcar-full, but think they'll take 2 rows of seats for more knee room? Hell will freeze over first. That 1-percenter at the top needs his Christmas bonus, ya'know.

ron ll
12-11-2015, 02:44 PM
No, I was lucky. And it was totally a matter of luck. At the time when I left Instructing at a small flying school, I had a job offer from a small airline up north, and was all set to go, when The Airline called. I had a brand-new ATR license, and they were beginning a massive hiring cycle, and I got in.

So, I was in the right place at the right time with the right qualifications -- and I'd flown 7 days a week to do that (instructing 6 days a week and dropping Jumpers on Sundays) -- but I was still very lucky that the door opened.

However that was in 1979. Then came the 80s, with hyper inflation, recession, privatization, de-regulation, 2-man crews instead of 3 man, and the advent of fax machines and business mail. For pilots, that decade sucked.

I was almost 17 years an F/O, flying DC-9s for the most parts, puddle-jumping, and very Junior. I paid lots of dues, even at a Major.

Dave

So you are saying being in the right place at the right time runs in the family? Or might it be something else? (You know, like hard work and aptitude.)

Dave Hadfield
12-11-2015, 02:46 PM
The airplanes are more full. Higher load factors everywhere. And people get upgraded on Points for the few seats available.

Dave Hadfield
12-11-2015, 02:54 PM
So you are saying being in the right place at the right time runs in the family? Or might it be something else? (You know, like hard work and aptitude.)

Well, thank you, but for me aviation was always an obsession, so I can't really take much credit for planning and forethought. It's what I wanted to do pretty much from the cradle.

However I did know about the Seniority factor, so I was motivated to get qualified as fast as possible. Many beginning pilots without an airline background in the family don't understand the life-long effect of Seniority, and how it affects every aspect of your working life for the entire span of your career.

The Bigfella
12-11-2015, 03:04 PM
That has about as much chance of making it into an actual airliner, as the original 747 cocktail lounge on the upper deck.... if it doesn't generate revenue (i.e., if it isn't a seat with a paying passenger), the airlines aren't interested.

That's the sort of thinking that's got the American airlines where they are today. :d

Cocktail lounges are great on planes

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Emirates/aed43_zps5ba59733.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/igatenby/media/Emirates/aed43_zps5ba59733.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Emirates/aed45_zps20a7223e.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/igatenby/media/Emirates/aed45_zps20a7223e.jpg.html)

... as for sitting up top

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Emirates/aed2_zps0dfc5ac8.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/igatenby/media/Emirates/aed2_zps0dfc5ac8.jpg.html)

Dave Hadfield
12-11-2015, 03:14 PM
I would imagine that flying a 777 must be like heaven, compared to the comparatively primitive DC-9. Also, considering what strikes me as a pretty light overseas load (3 hrs on, 3 hrs off), your biggest problem must be jetlag. :)

I liked the DC-9 as an airplane. It was agile and fun to fly. And I have always enjoyed hand-flying more than telling the autopilot what to do.

As for the Rests, if you didn't have these breaks, the long-term fatigue would overwhelm you. Remember these flights are regular events, week after week, month after month, for years. Passengers experience them as isolated events. Pilots know them as "(sigh)...China... again..."

Fatigue is accumulative.

Even when you are in the Rest Facility, you are still very much aware that you are flying near the North Pole, or north-central Siberia, and that if one of your 2 engines quits you are 3 hours away from a friendly runway. Sleep comes difficult for some.

As for jet-lag, we are only there for 24 hours, so there isn't time for tourist excursions. We are 12 hours opposed in time, and thus naturally wake up in the middle of the night. I don't even try to acclimatize. I personally avoid the discount shopping and aim for fatigue-avoidance above all else. I just sleep, or read. Maybe some light exercise. I know I will have difficulty trying to sleep before departure, but try not to worry about it because I can take the first break after takeoff. And indeed I always sleep like a log on that one.

Having 4 pilots on those 14-hour-plus legs is the only thing that makes them do-able over a long period.

The Bigfella
12-11-2015, 04:45 PM
Oops

http://i.imgur.com/dTZOcL2.gif

The Bigfella
12-11-2015, 05:09 PM
That's a fake video btw

Chris Smith porter maine
12-11-2015, 06:27 PM
That's the sort of thinking that's got the American airlines where they are today. :d

Cocktail lounges are great on planes

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Emirates/aed43_zps5ba59733.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/igatenby/media/Emirates/aed43_zps5ba59733.jpg.html)

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Emirates/aed45_zps20a7223e.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/igatenby/media/Emirates/aed45_zps20a7223e.jpg.html)

... as for sitting up top

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff112/igatenby/Emirates/aed2_zps0dfc5ac8.jpg (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/igatenby/media/Emirates/aed2_zps0dfc5ac8.jpg.html)

That is some carbon footprint you got going on there.

The Bigfella
12-11-2015, 06:31 PM
That is some carbon footprint you got going on there.


...... nah, much more efficient than driving.

Reynard38
12-11-2015, 06:54 PM
I'm not really keen on having more holes in the fuselage than I can avoid.

I'm travelling first-class these days -- in the front left seat of a 777, with a Pilot's Rest facility above the Executive seats. Two 3-hour watches, two 3-hour rests in a quiet, private place, and then we land in China.

It only took 35 years of seniority to achieve!

Dave

Congrats. 25 years this coming April for me.
Could be doing the international thing on the 76er, but seniority is much better on the Mad Dog. Plus I get to visit forum members!

BrianW
12-11-2015, 06:58 PM
Two out of three good looking flight attendants ain't bad.