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Paul
02-21-2001, 02:21 PM
I've had the opportunity to use a few round bottom wood planes lately. I had to plane in the hollow for the wood keel timber and lead ballast mating surfaces. I really enjoy using wood planes. The next project is building the boom and mast for my gaff rigged Haven 12.5. I am looking for a hollow bottom round plan for spar making (the mast is 3.5" more or less). Anybody have a lead on some old wooden spar planes?

Paul
02-21-2001, 02:21 PM
I've had the opportunity to use a few round bottom wood planes lately. I had to plane in the hollow for the wood keel timber and lead ballast mating surfaces. I really enjoy using wood planes. The next project is building the boom and mast for my gaff rigged Haven 12.5. I am looking for a hollow bottom round plan for spar making (the mast is 3.5" more or less). Anybody have a lead on some old wooden spar planes?

Paul
02-21-2001, 02:21 PM
I've had the opportunity to use a few round bottom wood planes lately. I had to plane in the hollow for the wood keel timber and lead ballast mating surfaces. I really enjoy using wood planes. The next project is building the boom and mast for my gaff rigged Haven 12.5. I am looking for a hollow bottom round plan for spar making (the mast is 3.5" more or less). Anybody have a lead on some old wooden spar planes?

John B
02-21-2001, 03:27 PM
I was speaking to a second hand tool dealer recently who was lamenting missing out on a collection of wooden planes........ various shapes...
The people who beat him to them were boatbuilders working on Am Cup boats.....some statement made along the lines of " They're ideal for all the awkward shapes we have to create"

John B
02-21-2001, 03:27 PM
I was speaking to a second hand tool dealer recently who was lamenting missing out on a collection of wooden planes........ various shapes...
The people who beat him to them were boatbuilders working on Am Cup boats.....some statement made along the lines of " They're ideal for all the awkward shapes we have to create"

John B
02-21-2001, 03:27 PM
I was speaking to a second hand tool dealer recently who was lamenting missing out on a collection of wooden planes........ various shapes...
The people who beat him to them were boatbuilders working on Am Cup boats.....some statement made along the lines of " They're ideal for all the awkward shapes we have to create"

Ed Harrow
02-21-2001, 04:12 PM
I have a source who has offered to make me some for what I suspect will be reasonable prices. I don't have his email address with me, but I'll try to remember to give it to you tonight when I get home (tho it might be tomorrow before I do get around to it).

Ed Harrow
02-21-2001, 04:12 PM
I have a source who has offered to make me some for what I suspect will be reasonable prices. I don't have his email address with me, but I'll try to remember to give it to you tonight when I get home (tho it might be tomorrow before I do get around to it).

Ed Harrow
02-21-2001, 04:12 PM
I have a source who has offered to make me some for what I suspect will be reasonable prices. I don't have his email address with me, but I'll try to remember to give it to you tonight when I get home (tho it might be tomorrow before I do get around to it).

Wayne Jeffers
02-21-2001, 07:55 PM
Hollow planes (that's the proper name) are intended principally for making molding. I expect they would be of limited value for making most spars, because most spars are tapered.

Making round spars using a flat-sole plane is not difficult. First, establish the correct taper. Then, carefully and methodiccally go from 4 sides, to 8 sides, to 16 sides, etc. until you reach the point where you're ready to finish off the last corners with sandpaper. You will find that your bare hand is perhaps the best instrument for finding any irregularities.

If you use the birdsmouth technique, your starting point is halfway home.

Good luck,

Wayne

[This message has been edited by Wayne Jeffers (edited 02-21-2001).]

Wayne Jeffers
02-21-2001, 07:55 PM
Hollow planes (that's the proper name) are intended principally for making molding. I expect they would be of limited value for making most spars, because most spars are tapered.

Making round spars using a flat-sole plane is not difficult. First, establish the correct taper. Then, carefully and methodiccally go from 4 sides, to 8 sides, to 16 sides, etc. until you reach the point where you're ready to finish off the last corners with sandpaper. You will find that your bare hand is perhaps the best instrument for finding any irregularities.

If you use the birdsmouth technique, your starting point is halfway home.

Good luck,

Wayne

[This message has been edited by Wayne Jeffers (edited 02-21-2001).]

Wayne Jeffers
02-21-2001, 07:55 PM
Hollow planes (that's the proper name) are intended principally for making molding. I expect they would be of limited value for making most spars, because most spars are tapered.

Making round spars using a flat-sole plane is not difficult. First, establish the correct taper. Then, carefully and methodiccally go from 4 sides, to 8 sides, to 16 sides, etc. until you reach the point where you're ready to finish off the last corners with sandpaper. You will find that your bare hand is perhaps the best instrument for finding any irregularities.

If you use the birdsmouth technique, your starting point is halfway home.

Good luck,

Wayne

[This message has been edited by Wayne Jeffers (edited 02-21-2001).]

Syd MacDonald
02-21-2001, 09:31 PM
What are you doing messing around with wooden planes? Check out the last two issues of Woodenboat Re bench planes. Spend a couple of thousand bucks for a Lei-Neilson or a Holtey plane and spend a few hours honing with ever finer grit and go to work. That is,if you have any time left or money for wood.
Seriously, go with the wooden plane. You'll be glad you did. When you have time, put your feet up and read the Woodenboat articles but don't get hung up on the details. Too many of these articles are written by teachers and not by people who make their living by building boats.

Syd MacDonald
02-21-2001, 09:31 PM
What are you doing messing around with wooden planes? Check out the last two issues of Woodenboat Re bench planes. Spend a couple of thousand bucks for a Lei-Neilson or a Holtey plane and spend a few hours honing with ever finer grit and go to work. That is,if you have any time left or money for wood.
Seriously, go with the wooden plane. You'll be glad you did. When you have time, put your feet up and read the Woodenboat articles but don't get hung up on the details. Too many of these articles are written by teachers and not by people who make their living by building boats.

Syd MacDonald
02-21-2001, 09:31 PM
What are you doing messing around with wooden planes? Check out the last two issues of Woodenboat Re bench planes. Spend a couple of thousand bucks for a Lei-Neilson or a Holtey plane and spend a few hours honing with ever finer grit and go to work. That is,if you have any time left or money for wood.
Seriously, go with the wooden plane. You'll be glad you did. When you have time, put your feet up and read the Woodenboat articles but don't get hung up on the details. Too many of these articles are written by teachers and not by people who make their living by building boats.

Ed Harrow
02-21-2001, 09:56 PM
Paul, here's Bill's email address:
harris@panther.middlebury.edu

Good luck,

Ed

Ed Harrow
02-21-2001, 09:56 PM
Paul, here's Bill's email address:
harris@panther.middlebury.edu

Good luck,

Ed

Ed Harrow
02-21-2001, 09:56 PM
Paul, here's Bill's email address:
harris@panther.middlebury.edu

Good luck,

Ed

Mitchel Larsen
02-22-2001, 06:38 AM
Have you considered making your own? One can make a beautiful custom plane quite easily and without much material expense. I make mine along the lines of those described by James Krenov in his Fine Art of Cabinetmaking book.The cutting and cap irons are inexpensive and the wood is probably free.Give it a try if you can.

Mitchel Larsen
02-22-2001, 06:38 AM
Have you considered making your own? One can make a beautiful custom plane quite easily and without much material expense. I make mine along the lines of those described by James Krenov in his Fine Art of Cabinetmaking book.The cutting and cap irons are inexpensive and the wood is probably free.Give it a try if you can.

Mitchel Larsen
02-22-2001, 06:38 AM
Have you considered making your own? One can make a beautiful custom plane quite easily and without much material expense. I make mine along the lines of those described by James Krenov in his Fine Art of Cabinetmaking book.The cutting and cap irons are inexpensive and the wood is probably free.Give it a try if you can.

Paul
02-22-2001, 06:55 AM
Thanks for all the feedback. Yep, I could use a metal plane, and I have read all the techniques on siding, etc. Round and hollows can be used for much more that just making moulding. Take for instance the hollowing I just did for the keel, lead ballast intersection or the shaping of the mahogany sheerstrake or backing out the carvel planking.
I like wooden planes, I like the way that feel and work. Not that I don't use and have a respect for by trusty Stanley block and bench planes. I could make some as well. But, nice old wooden planes (the ones you can use for boatbuilding) can be picked at a resonable price. I have a wood round #4, #12, #16 and a hollow #8. I have one wood plane that was a pattern makers plane, I think. The bottom plate is interchangable. I picked it up at a local flea market and it only had the round bottom attachment and rounded iron. A friend of mine said the original set most likely had several bottoms shaped as rounds, hollows and would have come with several irons.
John Gardener descibed making wood planes in his book and showed many of his personal planes picked up over the years.
Wayne you are right, It would probable take several radiuses to get the taper of the mast out. But, the pleasure to me would be getting it all out using spar making planes.
I hope to use the #8 hollow to make the jib boom. It's all no big deal, just an effort to find and use these great old tools.

Paul
02-22-2001, 06:55 AM
Thanks for all the feedback. Yep, I could use a metal plane, and I have read all the techniques on siding, etc. Round and hollows can be used for much more that just making moulding. Take for instance the hollowing I just did for the keel, lead ballast intersection or the shaping of the mahogany sheerstrake or backing out the carvel planking.
I like wooden planes, I like the way that feel and work. Not that I don't use and have a respect for by trusty Stanley block and bench planes. I could make some as well. But, nice old wooden planes (the ones you can use for boatbuilding) can be picked at a resonable price. I have a wood round #4, #12, #16 and a hollow #8. I have one wood plane that was a pattern makers plane, I think. The bottom plate is interchangable. I picked it up at a local flea market and it only had the round bottom attachment and rounded iron. A friend of mine said the original set most likely had several bottoms shaped as rounds, hollows and would have come with several irons.
John Gardener descibed making wood planes in his book and showed many of his personal planes picked up over the years.
Wayne you are right, It would probable take several radiuses to get the taper of the mast out. But, the pleasure to me would be getting it all out using spar making planes.
I hope to use the #8 hollow to make the jib boom. It's all no big deal, just an effort to find and use these great old tools.

Paul
02-22-2001, 06:55 AM
Thanks for all the feedback. Yep, I could use a metal plane, and I have read all the techniques on siding, etc. Round and hollows can be used for much more that just making moulding. Take for instance the hollowing I just did for the keel, lead ballast intersection or the shaping of the mahogany sheerstrake or backing out the carvel planking.
I like wooden planes, I like the way that feel and work. Not that I don't use and have a respect for by trusty Stanley block and bench planes. I could make some as well. But, nice old wooden planes (the ones you can use for boatbuilding) can be picked at a resonable price. I have a wood round #4, #12, #16 and a hollow #8. I have one wood plane that was a pattern makers plane, I think. The bottom plate is interchangable. I picked it up at a local flea market and it only had the round bottom attachment and rounded iron. A friend of mine said the original set most likely had several bottoms shaped as rounds, hollows and would have come with several irons.
John Gardener descibed making wood planes in his book and showed many of his personal planes picked up over the years.
Wayne you are right, It would probable take several radiuses to get the taper of the mast out. But, the pleasure to me would be getting it all out using spar making planes.
I hope to use the #8 hollow to make the jib boom. It's all no big deal, just an effort to find and use these great old tools.

Wayne Jeffers
02-22-2001, 02:51 PM
Paul,

I love wooden planes, too. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. I've just found making round ones out of square ones using a flat-sole plane to be surprisingly easy. For me, easier than dealing with changing radii.

I think the "rounds" would be much more useful in boatbuilding. There's no way to back-out carvel plank with a flat-sole plane. I've been watching for what John Gardner referred to as a backing-out plane for a while. I even started to try making one once, but got distracted.

And wooden spokeshaves have the metal ones beat nine ways to Sunday!

Here's a listing of used tool dealers that could be a source for your spar plane:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/tools.html

Wayne


[This message has been edited by Wayne Jeffers (edited 02-22-2001).]

Wayne Jeffers
02-22-2001, 02:51 PM
Paul,

I love wooden planes, too. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. I've just found making round ones out of square ones using a flat-sole plane to be surprisingly easy. For me, easier than dealing with changing radii.

I think the "rounds" would be much more useful in boatbuilding. There's no way to back-out carvel plank with a flat-sole plane. I've been watching for what John Gardner referred to as a backing-out plane for a while. I even started to try making one once, but got distracted.

And wooden spokeshaves have the metal ones beat nine ways to Sunday!

Here's a listing of used tool dealers that could be a source for your spar plane:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/tools.html

Wayne


[This message has been edited by Wayne Jeffers (edited 02-22-2001).]

Wayne Jeffers
02-22-2001, 02:51 PM
Paul,

I love wooden planes, too. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. I've just found making round ones out of square ones using a flat-sole plane to be surprisingly easy. For me, easier than dealing with changing radii.

I think the "rounds" would be much more useful in boatbuilding. There's no way to back-out carvel plank with a flat-sole plane. I've been watching for what John Gardner referred to as a backing-out plane for a while. I even started to try making one once, but got distracted.

And wooden spokeshaves have the metal ones beat nine ways to Sunday!

Here's a listing of used tool dealers that could be a source for your spar plane:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/tools.html

Wayne


[This message has been edited by Wayne Jeffers (edited 02-22-2001).]

noquiklos
02-22-2001, 08:26 PM
I must be WAY out of the traditional boatbuilding loop! For hollowing, I use a 4 1/2" angle grinder and finish with sandpaper. Fast and easy. For rounding, a Stanley block plane, the palm of my hand, and sandpaper. I guess I'll have to donate my woodies to a proper craftsman.
Not!
Roy

noquiklos
02-22-2001, 08:26 PM
I must be WAY out of the traditional boatbuilding loop! For hollowing, I use a 4 1/2" angle grinder and finish with sandpaper. Fast and easy. For rounding, a Stanley block plane, the palm of my hand, and sandpaper. I guess I'll have to donate my woodies to a proper craftsman.
Not!
Roy

noquiklos
02-22-2001, 08:26 PM
I must be WAY out of the traditional boatbuilding loop! For hollowing, I use a 4 1/2" angle grinder and finish with sandpaper. Fast and easy. For rounding, a Stanley block plane, the palm of my hand, and sandpaper. I guess I'll have to donate my woodies to a proper craftsman.
Not!
Roy

Lazy Jack
02-23-2001, 12:50 PM
For backing out carvel planks I have used a box scraper, Kind of a mini plane with a slightly rounded sole and square footprint pulled on a pivoting wooden handle. Works great and makes great shavings, none of the dust of a grinder and almost as fast.

Lazy Jack
02-23-2001, 12:50 PM
For backing out carvel planks I have used a box scraper, Kind of a mini plane with a slightly rounded sole and square footprint pulled on a pivoting wooden handle. Works great and makes great shavings, none of the dust of a grinder and almost as fast.

Lazy Jack
02-23-2001, 12:50 PM
For backing out carvel planks I have used a box scraper, Kind of a mini plane with a slightly rounded sole and square footprint pulled on a pivoting wooden handle. Works great and makes great shavings, none of the dust of a grinder and almost as fast.

Bob Cleek
02-23-2001, 06:46 PM
I thought I was the only guy who owned a box scraper! Amazing too, since they were once really commmon and now are non-existent antiques. In case anyone wonders, they are called box scrapers because that was what they were for. Back in the days before disposable (er.. recyclable) corrigated cardboard was invented, they used real wood boxes to ship stuff in. They would stencil the address or whatever on the box side. When the time came to reuse the box, the box scraper would scrape off the stencilled old address and leave a new clean surface to stencil on another address. Really neat conversation piece tool, and about the best thing for backing out plank, so I'm told.

Bob Cleek
02-23-2001, 06:46 PM
I thought I was the only guy who owned a box scraper! Amazing too, since they were once really commmon and now are non-existent antiques. In case anyone wonders, they are called box scrapers because that was what they were for. Back in the days before disposable (er.. recyclable) corrigated cardboard was invented, they used real wood boxes to ship stuff in. They would stencil the address or whatever on the box side. When the time came to reuse the box, the box scraper would scrape off the stencilled old address and leave a new clean surface to stencil on another address. Really neat conversation piece tool, and about the best thing for backing out plank, so I'm told.

Bob Cleek
02-23-2001, 06:46 PM
I thought I was the only guy who owned a box scraper! Amazing too, since they were once really commmon and now are non-existent antiques. In case anyone wonders, they are called box scrapers because that was what they were for. Back in the days before disposable (er.. recyclable) corrigated cardboard was invented, they used real wood boxes to ship stuff in. They would stencil the address or whatever on the box side. When the time came to reuse the box, the box scraper would scrape off the stencilled old address and leave a new clean surface to stencil on another address. Really neat conversation piece tool, and about the best thing for backing out plank, so I'm told.

Bayboat
02-23-2001, 10:13 PM
Bob, you are not alone. I, too, own a box scraper--which I use frequently. Lazy Jack, you're right, with a curved blade it makes a good backing-out tool. About ten years back mine got away from me and I bought a new one, I think from Garrett Wade or Woodcraft. It's identical to the old pattern, and a nice tool. I shaped various blades for it from heavy duty (and broken) bandsaw blades--flat and several arcs.

About wooden planes: If you don't want to make your own or can't find a good one among the ancients, you might like to look at the ones made by E.C.E. in Germany. For some of them they have dispensed with the wooden wedges and installed precise adjusters with a finer touch than your average Stanley. They are made to very high standards, and some have lignum vitae soles. They have continued some of the older patterns with wedges. Years ago I bought an E.C.E. backing-out plane, but I haven't seen it in the ads for quite a while. I don't think they ever made a spar plane.
These planes are not cheap, but if you're a wooden plane nut you will love them. They're in the tool catalogs, e.g. Garrett Wade, Highland Hardware, etc.
Stanley used to make a transitional plane (iron upper works, wood body and sole) with changeable soles and irons. Mine has a dozen soles and irons of different arcs, all convex. I don't know if they ever made concave soles and irons for this plane. It would be great if Stanley or Record brought back some of these and other nice old metal planes. Lie-Neilsen is doing a great job with some of them, but talk about sticker shock. They're worth it, but $$$wow$$$!!


[This message has been edited by Bayboat (edited 02-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bayboat (edited 02-23-2001).]

Bayboat
02-23-2001, 10:13 PM
Bob, you are not alone. I, too, own a box scraper--which I use frequently. Lazy Jack, you're right, with a curved blade it makes a good backing-out tool. About ten years back mine got away from me and I bought a new one, I think from Garrett Wade or Woodcraft. It's identical to the old pattern, and a nice tool. I shaped various blades for it from heavy duty (and broken) bandsaw blades--flat and several arcs.

About wooden planes: If you don't want to make your own or can't find a good one among the ancients, you might like to look at the ones made by E.C.E. in Germany. For some of them they have dispensed with the wooden wedges and installed precise adjusters with a finer touch than your average Stanley. They are made to very high standards, and some have lignum vitae soles. They have continued some of the older patterns with wedges. Years ago I bought an E.C.E. backing-out plane, but I haven't seen it in the ads for quite a while. I don't think they ever made a spar plane.
These planes are not cheap, but if you're a wooden plane nut you will love them. They're in the tool catalogs, e.g. Garrett Wade, Highland Hardware, etc.
Stanley used to make a transitional plane (iron upper works, wood body and sole) with changeable soles and irons. Mine has a dozen soles and irons of different arcs, all convex. I don't know if they ever made concave soles and irons for this plane. It would be great if Stanley or Record brought back some of these and other nice old metal planes. Lie-Neilsen is doing a great job with some of them, but talk about sticker shock. They're worth it, but $$$wow$$$!!


[This message has been edited by Bayboat (edited 02-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bayboat (edited 02-23-2001).]

Bayboat
02-23-2001, 10:13 PM
Bob, you are not alone. I, too, own a box scraper--which I use frequently. Lazy Jack, you're right, with a curved blade it makes a good backing-out tool. About ten years back mine got away from me and I bought a new one, I think from Garrett Wade or Woodcraft. It's identical to the old pattern, and a nice tool. I shaped various blades for it from heavy duty (and broken) bandsaw blades--flat and several arcs.

About wooden planes: If you don't want to make your own or can't find a good one among the ancients, you might like to look at the ones made by E.C.E. in Germany. For some of them they have dispensed with the wooden wedges and installed precise adjusters with a finer touch than your average Stanley. They are made to very high standards, and some have lignum vitae soles. They have continued some of the older patterns with wedges. Years ago I bought an E.C.E. backing-out plane, but I haven't seen it in the ads for quite a while. I don't think they ever made a spar plane.
These planes are not cheap, but if you're a wooden plane nut you will love them. They're in the tool catalogs, e.g. Garrett Wade, Highland Hardware, etc.
Stanley used to make a transitional plane (iron upper works, wood body and sole) with changeable soles and irons. Mine has a dozen soles and irons of different arcs, all convex. I don't know if they ever made concave soles and irons for this plane. It would be great if Stanley or Record brought back some of these and other nice old metal planes. Lie-Neilsen is doing a great job with some of them, but talk about sticker shock. They're worth it, but $$$wow$$$!!


[This message has been edited by Bayboat (edited 02-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Bayboat (edited 02-23-2001).]

Bruce Hooke
02-27-2001, 06:54 PM
If you're ever up in Maine stop by Liberty Tool Co. in Liberty, Maine (off Rt. 3 between Augusta and Belfast). Last time I was through there they had a considerable collection of wood planes as well as lots of other old tools at reasonable prices. - Bruce

Bruce Hooke
02-27-2001, 06:54 PM
If you're ever up in Maine stop by Liberty Tool Co. in Liberty, Maine (off Rt. 3 between Augusta and Belfast). Last time I was through there they had a considerable collection of wood planes as well as lots of other old tools at reasonable prices. - Bruce

Bruce Hooke
02-27-2001, 06:54 PM
If you're ever up in Maine stop by Liberty Tool Co. in Liberty, Maine (off Rt. 3 between Augusta and Belfast). Last time I was through there they had a considerable collection of wood planes as well as lots of other old tools at reasonable prices. - Bruce

Paul
02-28-2001, 07:15 AM
Bruce, a friend of mine from Canaan sent me a picture of that place. In fact I was looking through my photo album last night and came across the photo which is on the inside of the shop along the wall where all the old wooden planes were on display. My friend says it is quite a place for tool junkies.

Paul
02-28-2001, 07:15 AM
Bruce, a friend of mine from Canaan sent me a picture of that place. In fact I was looking through my photo album last night and came across the photo which is on the inside of the shop along the wall where all the old wooden planes were on display. My friend says it is quite a place for tool junkies.

Paul
02-28-2001, 07:15 AM
Bruce, a friend of mine from Canaan sent me a picture of that place. In fact I was looking through my photo album last night and came across the photo which is on the inside of the shop along the wall where all the old wooden planes were on display. My friend says it is quite a place for tool junkies.