tools required

[S/V Laura Ellen]

I am beginning to purchase some tools necessary for the repairs to a 1937 36' Bluenose Junior schooner. What tools should I be looking to get? What are the priorities? What manufactures and models are suggested?

Allan

[Meerkat]

What repairs do you have to make? That's going to have some (a lot?) of bearing on what tools you'll need.

[RGM]

The first tools? Well known and accepted books/reference materials on traditional wood boat construction and restoration. These same books will also give you a solid idea of what "tools" (hardware, implements of destruction and construction)to acquire for given tasks. I get the feeling that you haven't acquired much of a library yet? Visit the WB online bookstore and/or do a search here in the Forum for reference material, books on boat repair, construction, etc. Good luck.

[Dave Fleming]

Anybody check the website listed in his top line?

[S/V Laura Ellen]

Some of the repairs that will be comming are:
- deck repairs - pine on oak frames
- plank replacement (rot in the but joints)
- replacement of cabin trunk

Repairs to the bulwark is progressing (slowly due to bad weather) with help from a local shipwright. I need to get more independant, more fun that way.

www.xcelco.on.ca/~scuba/Laura%20Ellen.htm (http://www.xcelco.on.ca/~scuba/Laura%20Ellen.htm)

Allan

[RGM]

Allan, you need to narrow this down for us a little bit. Please first tell us what you do have in the way of portable power tools, stationary power tools, edge tools, saws, drilling gear, counter bores/counter sinks, drills,augers, etc. Oh yeah, don't forget, what books do you have?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

More clamps. Then more. Espescially if you are likely to be working singlehanded.

Good staging/scaffolding and plenty of it.

Well worth thinking about a tarpaulin "shed" right over the boat and tied back to the staging.

Several electric lights and wander leads.

[Meerkat]

Mandatory: a comfortable moaning chair. Indispensable! A Must Have! ;)

[Big Red]

A bottle opener, for when your in your chair smile.gif

[Victorious]

I have two chairs in the "Boatshed" (Its a 50ft tent)
I am currently doing interior stuff so theres a few places to sit inside.
The foredeck is a good seat as well.. with the 9 by 5in stem as a backrest.
It frankly makes little difference where i sit... with Coffee, Southern Comfort, both or none.....
I tend to chuckle. smile.gif
So where does this "moaning chair" fit in?
Is it where your SHMBO sits?
:D

[S/V Laura Ellen]

Originally posted by RGM:
Allan, you need to narrow this down for us a little bit. Please first tell us what you do have in the way of portable power tools, stationary power tools, edge tools, saws, drilling gear, counter bores/counter sinks, drills,augers, etc. Oh yeah, don't forget, what books do you have?For stationary tools have a good quality table saw and medium quality radial arm saw.
For portable power tools all I have that is of reasonale quality is a belt sander, random orbital sander and a circular saw.
For hand tools a have a set of medium quality chisels and a small selection of clamps.

Allan

[S/V Laura Ellen]

Originally posted by Russell Ferriday:
I have two chairs in the "Boatshed" (Its a 50ft tent)
:D The tent "boatshed" sounds like a good idea. Where did you get a 50' tent and how much did it set you back? I tarped the boat last winter using a framework of EMT conduit and KoverKlamps. Is seemed to work well but it was had to work on the boat with the cover in place.

Allan

[S/V Laura Ellen]

Originally posted by RGM:
Oh yeah, don't forget, what books do you have?I have read a few books from the library, but have yet to find a really good book on boat repair. What would be your recommendations for "must have" reference books?

Allan

[Paul Scheuer]

You do, of course, have a subscription to our sponsor's mag. Back issues are also available from "the store". Out of print issues also frequently appear on e-Bay.

I'll vote for trading the radial arm saw for a band saw. And get a digital camera :D

[Mrleft8]

Ice pack, Doan's pills, aspirin, Band-aids, bubble bath.
You can get a 50'x30' heavy duty tarp from Norther tools (Northerntools.com I think)and make a nice tent from that.
A nice open stand Delta 14" bandsaw. (open stand is lighter, and easier to move)
A decent set of long bladed chisels.
A good quality block plave, a good quality jack plane, and a set of sharpening stones. (NOT carborundum stones, those are for sharpening sickles)

[RGM]

In reply to your request about "must have reference books". Well, this has been covered numerous times before on the Forum. You could find all of this if you do a search as I previously recommended. It's good practice. Paul's recommendations about the WB back issues and replacing the RAS with a bandsaw is on the money. Additionally, the WB online bookstore has loads of books available and a series of "how to" books for frame, stem, keel, planking, etc repairs/replacements. For starters get the "Boat Building Manual" by Steward, "How to Build a Wood Boat" by McIntosh, "The Boatwrights Companion" by Allen Taube, "Details of Classic Boat Constuction" by Larry Pardey. This is by no means the only "list", just something I threw together off the top of my head. There are more books that are worthy of consideration. Remember, any of the reference items that deal more with new construction discuss methods, materials and equipment that can frequently be applied to repair work. Not only can eBay be a good source for WB back issues as suggested by Paul, it can also be a good source for books. Also check out www.abe.com (http://www.abe.com) as not only a source for books but also for price checking against eBay offerings .Good luck.

[Hughman]

For boat shelter:

http://www.by-the-sea.com/stimsonmarine/bowroof.html

Again, do a search on this, and there's a lot of detail in WB mag.

[Victorious]

The "tent" is remarkably simple.
6 frames made of cheap salvaged 3in by 2in timber, to give a wall about 9ft high and roof about 8ft from wall to apex.
18in off cuts and ply "knees" brace all the corners.
each frame spaced abot 7ft from the next, (cos i had a lot of odd bits of timber 7ft long)
The entire thing then covered with several smallish (about 20ft by 12ft) cheap new tarps.. The lightwieght blue stuff from most diy stores.

This would not last long in any serious weather.. but has stood with no leaks for over 3 years now!..... How???

I scrounged two large, heavy and worn out (lots of holes in em) lorry tarps from a local haulier

These are thrown over the top of the cheap but watertight stuff, They stop the lighter tarp from chaffing/thrashing about etc,etc.
I have now paneled in one end of my "tent" with salvaged plywood (from the boxes that masts come in when delivered with a new (ghastly, plastic, french built) boat. the local yard that commisions 2 or 3 of these new yachts each month was only too pleased to have me take away the "packaging"..
End result.....
A tent 45ft long 15ft wide with a 8ft long "shed" grafted onto one end.
An old lorry body at the other end provides secure storage for tools etc
Total cost less than 100 quid. :D

Note...The heavy old tarps are green so they blend in with the countryside.
Also some forward planning is a good idea...
one of the cheap tarps is placed so that it can be removed and replaced without disturbing the others leaving a hole where the half ton engine will be lowered in with a crane..... soon I hope :cool: .

[LightningJack]

I have the book Wooden Boat Restoration by Jim Trefethen (available from The Wooden Boat Store). I like it a lot, but I don't often see this book recommended by anyone else. I find it to be good, informative reading that's well written, but I'm a rank amateur, maybe it's too basic for others.
-Jack

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Books: I like this one.

Wooden boats : restoration & maintenance manual
• By: John Scarlett
• Publisher: Newton Abbot ; North Pomfret, Vt. : David & Charles, 1981
• ISBN: 071538077X

Written by the late founding Secretary of the Old Gaffers Association. A great book for encouraging you; it starts by assuming that you will be replacing the stem and keel, and may be doing this between tides on a beach...

I never met John Scarlett, but I corresponded with him - a tremendous enthusiast.

[Phil Young]

Just buy everything you see at garage sales and the like and that you don't already have 2 of. You will need them some time. Except clamps, no numerical limit applies there.

[Wild Dingo]

Allan what Russell says is interesting {hows it going over there Russell? hows Victorious? you going to update us? :cool: }... Anyways while I was wandering around the net last night I found this on some site somewhere and thought man now thats a fairly good idea! and so I kept these pages either for future reference or for times like these ;)

Seems back a few years this was a real option to many so much so it became an article in the old Popular Science mag of eons ago...

So anyways I post it for your cogitations... the Air House!!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid130/pbe1f04a5cfd7dc0587d11e6c8c80d48c/f7c02548.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid130/p3e1ab7ac7a56d272c2de3f82cdb5b111/f7c02545.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid130/pee20ea2ac72d645146f73b44e5cbf7b9/f7c0253d.jpg

Seems simple enough :cool: ... if you can get a hold of that bloody great piece of tough plastic that is without breakin the bank! :rolleyes:

Oh Allan if you werent aware you just go to imagestation to this album (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290110547) run down the list box find the pics called "air house 1, 2 and 3" and click the pic a new page will open click under the photo where it says "view full size" and the the pic will go full size {A4} save and print.. easy as! ;)

[ 07-22-2004, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: Wild Dingo ]

[TimH]

Neat idea, but the last thing I would want in the winter is cold air blowing on me. plus what happens when the snow covers up the fan?

[Jack Heinlen]

A few handsaws, a couple good chisels, a couple good planes. A vice and a bench. A few good drills. Sharpening stones and files. That's all you really need. A bandsoar don't hurt. A skillsaw(portable circular saw) either.

You'll find what you need as you go along. Don't set out for it, find the tools as the need arises.

I'm always amazed by the stories of castaways, or, at least, men cast on a shore and needing to build a boat. They are legion, and they build boats with very simple tools.

[ 07-22-2004, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[TimH]

The two things I dont have and really could use is a nice 3" to 3-1/2" slick, and a good drawknife. Slicks are very expensive, even on Ebay.

Like this:
http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/26/fe/c8_1.JPG
$125 already with 4 days to go.

[ 07-22-2004, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: TimH ]

[Wild Dingo]

Originally posted by TimH:
Neat idea, but the last thing I would want in the winter is cold air blowing on me. plus what happens when the snow covers up the fan?Whats snow? :D

[Jack Heinlen]

Slcks are, well, slicks. A good thing to have, but with power planers almost no one uses them.

I've an old, marked some maker from the 19th century, but people really don't use them anymore. Working around the horn timber of a schooner in plank, it still may be handy.

Some transmogrification happens in the eye, and the tool becomes secondary.

[TimH]

Originally posted by Jack Heinlen:
Slcks are, well, slicks. A good thing to have, but with power planers almost no one uses them.

I've an old, marked some maker from the 19th century, but people really don't use them anymore. Working around the horn timber of a schooner in plank, it still may be handy.

Some transmogrification happens in the eye, and the tool becomes secondary.Find out what kind it is if you want to sell it let me know :D

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I was once rather proud of my skills with an adze.

Then it occurred to me that I was looking for places to use an adze, rather than using an adze because I had no option. I rather suspect, but am willing to proved in error, that the adze, the side axe, the drawknife and the slick belong with the pin maul and the pit saw. Even professionals rarely confront large baulks of timber without power tools and an amateur will almost never do so.

[Bob Smalser]

Even professionals rarely confront large baulks of timber without power tools and an amateur will almost never do so. Ahhhhh....and that's such a mistake, Andrew. Far too many folks today are Norm-smitten. Tis the mixture of hand and power tools that garners real efficiency....and speed along with it.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4518261/56996406.jpg

I'm no great shakes at it compared to my forebearers, but I generally get out a pair of oars in one day, the drawknife being severalfold faster to get out all but the last millimeter of shape than any kind of plane for the purpose. The power saw and power jointer side of the team do what they do best here....efficiently rough out the stock.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4775424/60398418.jpg

Need a bunch of shiplap joints in long, clumsy stock? After a half hour of coaching, I can have your 10-year-old daughter make Norm and his router look anemic. This is slick territory.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3442941/42268006.jpg

Same with mortises...up to about a dozen. A few less with dovetail drawers, depending on how fast the Delta Rep out in the van can fiddle with the jigs.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/4029777/49867542.jpg

And I'm not gonna even get into all the cheaper and faster ways to avoid that ringing in your ears from all day with that #@$$&*# sander.

And Allan,

Rehabbing old cast-offs is by far the cheapest way to acquire high-quality hand tools. Several articles here written for beginners on how to do it:

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How _To/INDEX_How_To.htm (http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To.htm)

[ 07-22-2004, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[RichardBlake]

You're restoring, not building. From my experience doing the same, (learning - largely from this forum - as I go) I'd suggest a couple of things to make life easier. Depends a bit on whether you have lots of time, money or both. I wouldn't now be without my Japanese long-handled pull saw, with rip teeth on one side and cross-cut on the other. A few chunks of timber which had to be replaced wouldn't have come out so cleanly or quickly without it.
I think for restoration work, some of the old tools (e.g. draw-knife, adze, slick) come into their own because of accessibility problems. I've used all three over the last year.
I don't have a true slick, but love my three extra long chisels, which SWMBO picked up at a flea market in Poland - for $2 for all three! They get into places where....
I've also got a wide but very short (because I stood on it years ago) one re-ground and honed which again is for those challenging places like up in the counter.
Apart from the wood handled chisels, I have a reasonable-quality set of standard bevelled chisels with bashable plastic handles. A gentle tap with the heaviest possible hammer often works when you can't push because your elbow fouls a bulkhead.
Cost-effective honing: the thick glass plates with wet/dry paper.
Planes: Mine are all old woodies costing very little and refurbished á la Bob Smalser (Thank you, Sir!) except for my baby Stanley rabbet job with the removable nose. I fettle and sharpen tools while I pluck up courage for the next challenging bit.
Power tools: I've been lucky - the 3 local DIY chains have been having a price war for most of the last year.
Plus a system of sturdy staging which is easily adjustable in small increments. I find I can work for far longer if I'm sitting/standing at exactly the right height.
This is of course the experience of a relative beginner, but bits of it might help...
Good luck
Richard

[TimH]

Nice shaving horse Bob. Come to think of it, I need one of those also. heh. If you have ever watched Roy Underhill whip out stuff entirely with hand tools, you almost start to appreciate woodworking at its finest. Power tools have their place no doubt, I even just bought a sawzall, but I spend much more time with my hand tools. They are just so much more pleasant to work with. :D

And I would sure prefer a drawknife over a power planer to remove bark from the waney edges I seem to find on this cheap rough sawn second or third growth lumber I have been working with lately.

[ 07-22-2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: TimH ]

[Keith Wilson]

I juat had to repost this photo of the vessel in question (Laura Ellen) next to the Bluenose II. Laura Ellen's the one on the right. ;)

http://www.xcelco.on.ca/~scuba/images/Bluenose%20II%20and%20Laura-Ellen.jpg

[Bob Smalser]

Roy Underhill ranks right up there with John Gardner with me.

Not because he's a master at anything, but because of his approach and the ever-present bandaids on his hands.

"Look at me....I'm clumsy and this ain't that hard...if I can do it, so can you."

He's right. Folks since WWII have been gradually intimidated by a lot of self-serving "hand tool mystique" from both sides of the aisle that today many are shocked to find out just how simple and efficient some of these traditional techniques are.

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008649

[ 07-22-2004, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Jack Heinlen]

Well said Bob. Underhill tickles my fancy too. But if you look at the work being done, most days it's not on a shave horse with a draw knife.

I visited my brother two years ago. He's up in Lake Huron, an island man. He's building an engineered boat out of foam and epoxy, his own design. I had the pleasure of shaping his spar, a twelve foot(?) piece of cedar that he plans to mount his nav lights and antennae to. I would have been happy as a clam to have a bench and a good plane, but I didn't, I had a porch and a power planer. Lickety split, half a day, I had that spar how he wanted it.

Is there a right way? Given a choice, I'll use a tool without electrical chord attached. I don't like the noise, I don't like the feel, but that power planer made short work of that piece of cedar. smile.gif

[Tom Kenny]

Allan, in addition to what the others have offered - with the work that I am doing to Independence these are the tools that I use most often:

Band saw
Circular saw
Clamps - every size and type
Copingsaw
Counter bores/Counter sinks
Dermal tool
Drill - right angle attachment
Hacksaw
Hand drills - both battery and electric
Hand planes
Handsaws
Hole saws – for electric drill
Jig saw
Palm sander
Power jointer
Power plane
Random orbital sander
Reciprocating saw
Routers
Sharpening stones and files
Sheet sander
Table saw
Wood chisels

[TimH]

Originally posted by Keith Wilson:
I juat had to repost this photo of the vessel in question (Laura Ellen) next to the Bluenose II. Laura Ellen's the one on the right. ;)

http://www.xcelco.on.ca/~scuba/images/Bluenose%20II%20and%20Laura-Ellen.jpgCool picture, cool boat(s) :D :cool:

[Bruce Taylor]

Folks since WWII have been gradually intimidated by a lot of self-serving "hand tool mystique" from both sides of the aisleAnd the pros are often as stultified as the do-it-yourselfers.

I was once asked to reproduce part of a moulding on an antique French buffet. A cabinet-maker had turned down the job because, as he told the customer, he'd need to grind a special shaper head and it just wasn't worth the time and material for three inches of crown. In other words, since he owned a shaper, he wasn't at liberty to do the work with rasps and blades.

It was a quick and easy job, for a guy with no machinery. God knows how long it would have taken if I'd had a router in the shop. ;)