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EdenRose
08-05-2003, 01:38 AM
I am looking for a small marine diesel to build a
trailerable (24'-26') sailboat around. I am looking for a one or two cylinder just to move in and out of the marina and charge small battery bank.
I will not consider an outboard, even in a well.
What new marine diesels are out there that are small? I certainly prefer Kubota or Japanese, I have had my share of Volvo marine engines and
would like to move on.
Who makes them and who sells them?

[ 08-05-2003, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: EdenRose ]

EdenRose
08-05-2003, 01:38 AM
I am looking for a small marine diesel to build a
trailerable (24'-26') sailboat around. I am looking for a one or two cylinder just to move in and out of the marina and charge small battery bank.
I will not consider an outboard, even in a well.
What new marine diesels are out there that are small? I certainly prefer Kubota or Japanese, I have had my share of Volvo marine engines and
would like to move on.
Who makes them and who sells them?

[ 08-05-2003, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: EdenRose ]

EdenRose
08-05-2003, 01:38 AM
I am looking for a small marine diesel to build a
trailerable (24'-26') sailboat around. I am looking for a one or two cylinder just to move in and out of the marina and charge small battery bank.
I will not consider an outboard, even in a well.
What new marine diesels are out there that are small? I certainly prefer Kubota or Japanese, I have had my share of Volvo marine engines and
would like to move on.
Who makes them and who sells them?

[ 08-05-2003, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: EdenRose ]

Aramas
08-05-2003, 03:54 AM
Nanni, Sole and Beta are all Kubota conversions in the small sizes. I'm sure there must be others too.
Just google them, find their websites and look for local dealers.

Aramas
08-05-2003, 03:54 AM
Nanni, Sole and Beta are all Kubota conversions in the small sizes. I'm sure there must be others too.
Just google them, find their websites and look for local dealers.

Aramas
08-05-2003, 03:54 AM
Nanni, Sole and Beta are all Kubota conversions in the small sizes. I'm sure there must be others too.
Just google them, find their websites and look for local dealers.

WWheeler
08-05-2003, 09:17 AM
From personal experience, if you are just moving in and out of a marina, a diesel is just not worth the cost and trouble. Diesels are designed for efficient power and high hours of operation, not short duration bursts like that. You'll probably gum it up through lack of use.

Wooden boaters are such hopeless romantics (I include myself), but outboards have many advantages:

1) cost
2) easier to service (how do you like crawling around in the bilge?)
3) less intrusive and damaging to a wooden boat. (no through-hulls, fewer electrical issues etc.)
4) Easier on the environment (fewer spills, oil in the bilge etc.)

If you want to charge a battery, I suggest you get a solar panel.

This year, I've been completely worn out by a struggle with a diesel engine, to the extent that it has interfered with my sailing time.

WWheeler
08-05-2003, 09:17 AM
From personal experience, if you are just moving in and out of a marina, a diesel is just not worth the cost and trouble. Diesels are designed for efficient power and high hours of operation, not short duration bursts like that. You'll probably gum it up through lack of use.

Wooden boaters are such hopeless romantics (I include myself), but outboards have many advantages:

1) cost
2) easier to service (how do you like crawling around in the bilge?)
3) less intrusive and damaging to a wooden boat. (no through-hulls, fewer electrical issues etc.)
4) Easier on the environment (fewer spills, oil in the bilge etc.)

If you want to charge a battery, I suggest you get a solar panel.

This year, I've been completely worn out by a struggle with a diesel engine, to the extent that it has interfered with my sailing time.

WWheeler
08-05-2003, 09:17 AM
From personal experience, if you are just moving in and out of a marina, a diesel is just not worth the cost and trouble. Diesels are designed for efficient power and high hours of operation, not short duration bursts like that. You'll probably gum it up through lack of use.

Wooden boaters are such hopeless romantics (I include myself), but outboards have many advantages:

1) cost
2) easier to service (how do you like crawling around in the bilge?)
3) less intrusive and damaging to a wooden boat. (no through-hulls, fewer electrical issues etc.)
4) Easier on the environment (fewer spills, oil in the bilge etc.)

If you want to charge a battery, I suggest you get a solar panel.

This year, I've been completely worn out by a struggle with a diesel engine, to the extent that it has interfered with my sailing time.

EdenRose
08-05-2003, 12:22 PM
I agree about the hassle of an inboard engine.
I have sailed the same boat for the past 20 years, through three engines. I even spent big money to move the engine room from center to rear of the boat a few years back. I will probably use the motor more than just in an out of marinas.
It is just that I love diesels (cars, tractors and marine) and I hate outboards. I guess I will talk to the designer about the idea of an inboard well for an outboard. It is a canoe yawl and I AM NOT going to hang anything on the stern. If it takes up less precious space I might try it.

EdenRose
08-05-2003, 12:22 PM
I agree about the hassle of an inboard engine.
I have sailed the same boat for the past 20 years, through three engines. I even spent big money to move the engine room from center to rear of the boat a few years back. I will probably use the motor more than just in an out of marinas.
It is just that I love diesels (cars, tractors and marine) and I hate outboards. I guess I will talk to the designer about the idea of an inboard well for an outboard. It is a canoe yawl and I AM NOT going to hang anything on the stern. If it takes up less precious space I might try it.

EdenRose
08-05-2003, 12:22 PM
I agree about the hassle of an inboard engine.
I have sailed the same boat for the past 20 years, through three engines. I even spent big money to move the engine room from center to rear of the boat a few years back. I will probably use the motor more than just in an out of marinas.
It is just that I love diesels (cars, tractors and marine) and I hate outboards. I guess I will talk to the designer about the idea of an inboard well for an outboard. It is a canoe yawl and I AM NOT going to hang anything on the stern. If it takes up less precious space I might try it.

Venchka
08-05-2003, 11:37 PM
YANMAR offers a line of air cooled, electric/manual start engines in the 4-10HP range and under 120 pounds. GOOGLE will point the way. But then you still need to get the spin through the hull and into the water.

The size you mention isn't unlike a Thunderbird and outboards work well on them.

Venchka
08-05-2003, 11:37 PM
YANMAR offers a line of air cooled, electric/manual start engines in the 4-10HP range and under 120 pounds. GOOGLE will point the way. But then you still need to get the spin through the hull and into the water.

The size you mention isn't unlike a Thunderbird and outboards work well on them.

Venchka
08-05-2003, 11:37 PM
YANMAR offers a line of air cooled, electric/manual start engines in the 4-10HP range and under 120 pounds. GOOGLE will point the way. But then you still need to get the spin through the hull and into the water.

The size you mention isn't unlike a Thunderbird and outboards work well on them.

WWheeler
08-06-2003, 02:21 PM
I recently bought a double-ender myself (27' Tumlaren), which is yet to go in the water. The previous owner used a 4 hp. outboard clamped on to a bracket. It looks like he just used to maneuver in and out of the marina (if required), and then pull the entire unit out of the water while sailing. This would assume a relatively light unit (2 stroke? I understand the 4 strokes are heavier),

I'd agree that outboards are pretty ugly on a double-ender.

However, it's a 70 year old boat that has never has an inboard engine, and I'm not about to start. The only alternative would be an electric unit that clamps to the rudder. I believe that both Bolger and Devlin (Nancy's China DC)has specced them. However, I've never heard of a commercial unit, which gives the thing a kind of Rube Goldberg flavour -- take a Minn-kota trolling motor, take it apart, built a bracket etc etc.

WWheeler
08-06-2003, 02:21 PM
I recently bought a double-ender myself (27' Tumlaren), which is yet to go in the water. The previous owner used a 4 hp. outboard clamped on to a bracket. It looks like he just used to maneuver in and out of the marina (if required), and then pull the entire unit out of the water while sailing. This would assume a relatively light unit (2 stroke? I understand the 4 strokes are heavier),

I'd agree that outboards are pretty ugly on a double-ender.

However, it's a 70 year old boat that has never has an inboard engine, and I'm not about to start. The only alternative would be an electric unit that clamps to the rudder. I believe that both Bolger and Devlin (Nancy's China DC)has specced them. However, I've never heard of a commercial unit, which gives the thing a kind of Rube Goldberg flavour -- take a Minn-kota trolling motor, take it apart, built a bracket etc etc.

WWheeler
08-06-2003, 02:21 PM
I recently bought a double-ender myself (27' Tumlaren), which is yet to go in the water. The previous owner used a 4 hp. outboard clamped on to a bracket. It looks like he just used to maneuver in and out of the marina (if required), and then pull the entire unit out of the water while sailing. This would assume a relatively light unit (2 stroke? I understand the 4 strokes are heavier),

I'd agree that outboards are pretty ugly on a double-ender.

However, it's a 70 year old boat that has never has an inboard engine, and I'm not about to start. The only alternative would be an electric unit that clamps to the rudder. I believe that both Bolger and Devlin (Nancy's China DC)has specced them. However, I've never heard of a commercial unit, which gives the thing a kind of Rube Goldberg flavour -- take a Minn-kota trolling motor, take it apart, built a bracket etc etc.

EdenRose
08-06-2003, 02:58 PM
After a little research and talking to designer, I am looking at a 10hp saildrive diesel by Yanmar or Kubota (Betta or Nanni). I intend to have a
diesel tank anyway for a cooker/heater. The
yanmar is a handcrank raw water cooled simple engine that is light and can charge batteries.
Saildrive is a bit more cost than shaft and stuffing box, but sure makes a simple installation that could actually be done after boat was built and sailed without for a while.
I hate gas and outboards and don't want to give up cockpit space for either outboard storage or a well.

EdenRose
08-06-2003, 02:58 PM
After a little research and talking to designer, I am looking at a 10hp saildrive diesel by Yanmar or Kubota (Betta or Nanni). I intend to have a
diesel tank anyway for a cooker/heater. The
yanmar is a handcrank raw water cooled simple engine that is light and can charge batteries.
Saildrive is a bit more cost than shaft and stuffing box, but sure makes a simple installation that could actually be done after boat was built and sailed without for a while.
I hate gas and outboards and don't want to give up cockpit space for either outboard storage or a well.

EdenRose
08-06-2003, 02:58 PM
After a little research and talking to designer, I am looking at a 10hp saildrive diesel by Yanmar or Kubota (Betta or Nanni). I intend to have a
diesel tank anyway for a cooker/heater. The
yanmar is a handcrank raw water cooled simple engine that is light and can charge batteries.
Saildrive is a bit more cost than shaft and stuffing box, but sure makes a simple installation that could actually be done after boat was built and sailed without for a while.
I hate gas and outboards and don't want to give up cockpit space for either outboard storage or a well.

High C
08-06-2003, 04:36 PM
Eden, there's an incredible site that has specs on ALL marine diesels, and more. BoatDiesel Site (http://www.boatdiesel.com)

Westerbeke makes a 6 HP one cylinder job, the 7A-one. Cute little thing. I also think highly of the Kubota based engines, such as Beta.

High C
08-06-2003, 04:36 PM
Eden, there's an incredible site that has specs on ALL marine diesels, and more. BoatDiesel Site (http://www.boatdiesel.com)

Westerbeke makes a 6 HP one cylinder job, the 7A-one. Cute little thing. I also think highly of the Kubota based engines, such as Beta.

High C
08-06-2003, 04:36 PM
Eden, there's an incredible site that has specs on ALL marine diesels, and more. BoatDiesel Site (http://www.boatdiesel.com)

Westerbeke makes a 6 HP one cylinder job, the 7A-one. Cute little thing. I also think highly of the Kubota based engines, such as Beta.

EdenRose
08-06-2003, 06:03 PM
I just ran into a Garden Eel with the one cylinder Yanmar and he loves it. It was small, quiet and powerful enough. That pretty much helped me decide.

EdenRose
08-06-2003, 06:03 PM
I just ran into a Garden Eel with the one cylinder Yanmar and he loves it. It was small, quiet and powerful enough. That pretty much helped me decide.

EdenRose
08-06-2003, 06:03 PM
I just ran into a Garden Eel with the one cylinder Yanmar and he loves it. It was small, quiet and powerful enough. That pretty much helped me decide.

hm
08-17-2003, 07:06 AM
Sole (http://www.solediesel.com/) does not marinize Kubotas, they convert Mitsubishis, just like Vetus (http://www.vetus.com/) and Westerbeke (http://www.westerbeke.com) in that size.

The small 1-cylinder Dieselengine from Westerbeke is nothing but a resprayed Farymann (http://www.farymann.de/) from my country, a rather small manufacturer who builds very small diesel engines, only 1-cylinder. They used to be quite popular for 14-30ft sailboats in past times but have lost a huge amount of market share to Volvo / Yanmar.

Beta (http://www.betamarine.co.uk/) and Nanni (http://www.nannidiesel.com/) provide marinized Kubotas, just as the smaller american company Phasor (http://www.phasormarine.com/index.htm) .

There is a lot more companys that will deliver marine diesel engines in that size, like Bukh (http://www.bukh.dk/) from Danmark,
Lister-Petter (http://www.lister-petter.co.uk/index.html) from Britain or Lombardini (http://www.lombardini.it) from Italy.

The best bet probably is to stick with one of the bigger companys, you want to buy spare parts even 25 years from now.

hm

hm
08-17-2003, 07:06 AM
Sole (http://www.solediesel.com/) does not marinize Kubotas, they convert Mitsubishis, just like Vetus (http://www.vetus.com/) and Westerbeke (http://www.westerbeke.com) in that size.

The small 1-cylinder Dieselengine from Westerbeke is nothing but a resprayed Farymann (http://www.farymann.de/) from my country, a rather small manufacturer who builds very small diesel engines, only 1-cylinder. They used to be quite popular for 14-30ft sailboats in past times but have lost a huge amount of market share to Volvo / Yanmar.

Beta (http://www.betamarine.co.uk/) and Nanni (http://www.nannidiesel.com/) provide marinized Kubotas, just as the smaller american company Phasor (http://www.phasormarine.com/index.htm) .

There is a lot more companys that will deliver marine diesel engines in that size, like Bukh (http://www.bukh.dk/) from Danmark,
Lister-Petter (http://www.lister-petter.co.uk/index.html) from Britain or Lombardini (http://www.lombardini.it) from Italy.

The best bet probably is to stick with one of the bigger companys, you want to buy spare parts even 25 years from now.

hm

hm
08-17-2003, 07:06 AM
Sole (http://www.solediesel.com/) does not marinize Kubotas, they convert Mitsubishis, just like Vetus (http://www.vetus.com/) and Westerbeke (http://www.westerbeke.com) in that size.

The small 1-cylinder Dieselengine from Westerbeke is nothing but a resprayed Farymann (http://www.farymann.de/) from my country, a rather small manufacturer who builds very small diesel engines, only 1-cylinder. They used to be quite popular for 14-30ft sailboats in past times but have lost a huge amount of market share to Volvo / Yanmar.

Beta (http://www.betamarine.co.uk/) and Nanni (http://www.nannidiesel.com/) provide marinized Kubotas, just as the smaller american company Phasor (http://www.phasormarine.com/index.htm) .

There is a lot more companys that will deliver marine diesel engines in that size, like Bukh (http://www.bukh.dk/) from Danmark,
Lister-Petter (http://www.lister-petter.co.uk/index.html) from Britain or Lombardini (http://www.lombardini.it) from Italy.

The best bet probably is to stick with one of the bigger companys, you want to buy spare parts even 25 years from now.

hm

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2003, 07:44 AM
I have a Yanmar 1GM10 in a launch; used every weekend winter and summer. I bought it secondhand after it had been in another launch which sank. After two years I manged to sink mine (well, she has bouyancy, she floated with the gunwales awash) and the only casualty was the Hitachi alternator - very expensive to have rewound - the rest of the wiring loom I just washed and dried, restarted the engine, changed the oil twice and forgot about it.

More than once I have forgotten to drain water from the tank and the engine has tried to run on H2O and stopped dead in mid-river - bleeding it is dead easy.

Conclusion, the Yanmar 1GM10 is bullet proof and idiot proof.

Do carry a spare impeller - I am told that the pump is slightly small for the engine, and they do fail occasionally - by the way the bolts on the impeller housing are 7mm metric.

Like most little diesels, it is noisy and it vibrates.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2003, 07:44 AM
I have a Yanmar 1GM10 in a launch; used every weekend winter and summer. I bought it secondhand after it had been in another launch which sank. After two years I manged to sink mine (well, she has bouyancy, she floated with the gunwales awash) and the only casualty was the Hitachi alternator - very expensive to have rewound - the rest of the wiring loom I just washed and dried, restarted the engine, changed the oil twice and forgot about it.

More than once I have forgotten to drain water from the tank and the engine has tried to run on H2O and stopped dead in mid-river - bleeding it is dead easy.

Conclusion, the Yanmar 1GM10 is bullet proof and idiot proof.

Do carry a spare impeller - I am told that the pump is slightly small for the engine, and they do fail occasionally - by the way the bolts on the impeller housing are 7mm metric.

Like most little diesels, it is noisy and it vibrates.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
08-19-2003, 07:44 AM
I have a Yanmar 1GM10 in a launch; used every weekend winter and summer. I bought it secondhand after it had been in another launch which sank. After two years I manged to sink mine (well, she has bouyancy, she floated with the gunwales awash) and the only casualty was the Hitachi alternator - very expensive to have rewound - the rest of the wiring loom I just washed and dried, restarted the engine, changed the oil twice and forgot about it.

More than once I have forgotten to drain water from the tank and the engine has tried to run on H2O and stopped dead in mid-river - bleeding it is dead easy.

Conclusion, the Yanmar 1GM10 is bullet proof and idiot proof.

Do carry a spare impeller - I am told that the pump is slightly small for the engine, and they do fail occasionally - by the way the bolts on the impeller housing are 7mm metric.

Like most little diesels, it is noisy and it vibrates.

Ralph M Bohm
12-16-2003, 11:39 AM
Has anyone ever considered going with installing a diesel engine out of an old car from a junk yard instead of buying a marine engine?

Would a person be able to, if mechanically inclined, get away with much less cost to have this type of replacement power instaed of a Yanmar, etc. in a wooden sailboat. Of course, I haven't considered any other parts of the power train.

4/C Ralph M Bohm/N5WPG
Maine Maritime Academy Suite 102
Castine, MAine 04420

Ralph M Bohm
12-16-2003, 11:39 AM
Has anyone ever considered going with installing a diesel engine out of an old car from a junk yard instead of buying a marine engine?

Would a person be able to, if mechanically inclined, get away with much less cost to have this type of replacement power instaed of a Yanmar, etc. in a wooden sailboat. Of course, I haven't considered any other parts of the power train.

4/C Ralph M Bohm/N5WPG
Maine Maritime Academy Suite 102
Castine, MAine 04420

Ralph M Bohm
12-16-2003, 11:39 AM
Has anyone ever considered going with installing a diesel engine out of an old car from a junk yard instead of buying a marine engine?

Would a person be able to, if mechanically inclined, get away with much less cost to have this type of replacement power instaed of a Yanmar, etc. in a wooden sailboat. Of course, I haven't considered any other parts of the power train.

4/C Ralph M Bohm/N5WPG
Maine Maritime Academy Suite 102
Castine, MAine 04420

EdenRose
12-16-2003, 11:50 AM
Auto diesels would have several problems.
Most older ones in the US would be unreliable, ie from VW Rabbit etc. They are more in the horsepower range of 60-100 hp, much more than needed. They are probably much heavier than a small yanmar and the cost of making a marine
engine with transmission for an old engine would not be cost effective.
Finding a good used marine diesel from someone who is repowering or incresing engine size would be more practical... Or adapting one of the many small diesels used in tractors, bobcats or generators.

EdenRose
12-16-2003, 11:50 AM
Auto diesels would have several problems.
Most older ones in the US would be unreliable, ie from VW Rabbit etc. They are more in the horsepower range of 60-100 hp, much more than needed. They are probably much heavier than a small yanmar and the cost of making a marine
engine with transmission for an old engine would not be cost effective.
Finding a good used marine diesel from someone who is repowering or incresing engine size would be more practical... Or adapting one of the many small diesels used in tractors, bobcats or generators.

EdenRose
12-16-2003, 11:50 AM
Auto diesels would have several problems.
Most older ones in the US would be unreliable, ie from VW Rabbit etc. They are more in the horsepower range of 60-100 hp, much more than needed. They are probably much heavier than a small yanmar and the cost of making a marine
engine with transmission for an old engine would not be cost effective.
Finding a good used marine diesel from someone who is repowering or incresing engine size would be more practical... Or adapting one of the many small diesels used in tractors, bobcats or generators.

Stiletto
12-16-2003, 05:13 PM
Ralph, I was talking to a sailing cat owner builder just yesterday that had done that. He purchased two small Daihatsu diesels of around 1 litre in size and marinized them himslelf. They give about 38hp . There is also a turbo version that gives considerably more. He remarked that the gearboxes and heat exchangers cost a lot more than the engines. For a displacement launch you could save the cost of the heat exchangers by going to keel cooling.
I dont know if the daihatsu range of small vehicles are available in the US or not.
The Kubota is a very popular motor for marinisation also as already stated. I think one of the lightest marine diesels is the Lombardini from Italy.

Stiletto
12-16-2003, 05:13 PM
Ralph, I was talking to a sailing cat owner builder just yesterday that had done that. He purchased two small Daihatsu diesels of around 1 litre in size and marinized them himslelf. They give about 38hp . There is also a turbo version that gives considerably more. He remarked that the gearboxes and heat exchangers cost a lot more than the engines. For a displacement launch you could save the cost of the heat exchangers by going to keel cooling.
I dont know if the daihatsu range of small vehicles are available in the US or not.
The Kubota is a very popular motor for marinisation also as already stated. I think one of the lightest marine diesels is the Lombardini from Italy.

Stiletto
12-16-2003, 05:13 PM
Ralph, I was talking to a sailing cat owner builder just yesterday that had done that. He purchased two small Daihatsu diesels of around 1 litre in size and marinized them himslelf. They give about 38hp . There is also a turbo version that gives considerably more. He remarked that the gearboxes and heat exchangers cost a lot more than the engines. For a displacement launch you could save the cost of the heat exchangers by going to keel cooling.
I dont know if the daihatsu range of small vehicles are available in the US or not.
The Kubota is a very popular motor for marinisation also as already stated. I think one of the lightest marine diesels is the Lombardini from Italy.

Meerkat
12-16-2003, 06:09 PM
Daihatsu have come and gone in the US, although there was talk of them coming back again. That may have been scotched by 9/11 or the general economic downturn in the US. I'm not sure they where ever very popular. Some of their styles looked distinctly odd to (my) american eyes.

Meerkat
12-16-2003, 06:09 PM
Daihatsu have come and gone in the US, although there was talk of them coming back again. That may have been scotched by 9/11 or the general economic downturn in the US. I'm not sure they where ever very popular. Some of their styles looked distinctly odd to (my) american eyes.

Meerkat
12-16-2003, 06:09 PM
Daihatsu have come and gone in the US, although there was talk of them coming back again. That may have been scotched by 9/11 or the general economic downturn in the US. I'm not sure they where ever very popular. Some of their styles looked distinctly odd to (my) american eyes.

John B
12-16-2003, 06:10 PM
I have one of those. 27 hp Lombardini. self bleeding :D which I rediscovered a couple of weekends ago.

[ 12-16-2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

John B
12-16-2003, 06:10 PM
I have one of those. 27 hp Lombardini. self bleeding :D which I rediscovered a couple of weekends ago.

[ 12-16-2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

John B
12-16-2003, 06:10 PM
I have one of those. 27 hp Lombardini. self bleeding :D which I rediscovered a couple of weekends ago.

[ 12-16-2003, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: John B ]

Gerald
12-16-2003, 08:04 PM
I have a 10 HP Toyama air cooled diesel in a 23' boat. It is light as a feather, has electric or pull start. It runs about 10 hours on a gallon of fuel. I actually put together a bunch of stuff that was laying around and stuck it in the boat. Even though I still need to get the correct size prop it was still much better than the new 15 HP Merc. that was hanging on the back.
I also have a new VW diesel in a 32' boat. I am happy as a clam with the motor and drive train but many here would advise you against such a set up.
My personal advice would be this: It would be best if you have a machine shop or at least one under your thumb that you can afford. It would help to have previous experience with drive trains. If you decide to listen to any of us you need to keep an open mind. Most folks have not really installed other than marine setups. Last ..... if you want a no problem system go with a Yanmar or the like and pay the price.
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
12-16-2003, 08:04 PM
I have a 10 HP Toyama air cooled diesel in a 23' boat. It is light as a feather, has electric or pull start. It runs about 10 hours on a gallon of fuel. I actually put together a bunch of stuff that was laying around and stuck it in the boat. Even though I still need to get the correct size prop it was still much better than the new 15 HP Merc. that was hanging on the back.
I also have a new VW diesel in a 32' boat. I am happy as a clam with the motor and drive train but many here would advise you against such a set up.
My personal advice would be this: It would be best if you have a machine shop or at least one under your thumb that you can afford. It would help to have previous experience with drive trains. If you decide to listen to any of us you need to keep an open mind. Most folks have not really installed other than marine setups. Last ..... if you want a no problem system go with a Yanmar or the like and pay the price.
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
12-16-2003, 08:04 PM
I have a 10 HP Toyama air cooled diesel in a 23' boat. It is light as a feather, has electric or pull start. It runs about 10 hours on a gallon of fuel. I actually put together a bunch of stuff that was laying around and stuck it in the boat. Even though I still need to get the correct size prop it was still much better than the new 15 HP Merc. that was hanging on the back.
I also have a new VW diesel in a 32' boat. I am happy as a clam with the motor and drive train but many here would advise you against such a set up.
My personal advice would be this: It would be best if you have a machine shop or at least one under your thumb that you can afford. It would help to have previous experience with drive trains. If you decide to listen to any of us you need to keep an open mind. Most folks have not really installed other than marine setups. Last ..... if you want a no problem system go with a Yanmar or the like and pay the price.
Gerald Niffenegger

The Gentleman Sawyer
12-16-2003, 08:30 PM
I often run across replacement Kubota and Yanmar tractor engines, 18 HP or so. Aside from the gearbox and heat exchanger, what would be needed to adapt one for marine use? As memory serves me they are in the $1800 range and Northern Tool sells the Kubota. Similar to this:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2581859878&category=11754
The Gentleman Sawyer

[ 12-16-2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: The Gentleman Sawyer ]

The Gentleman Sawyer
12-16-2003, 08:30 PM
I often run across replacement Kubota and Yanmar tractor engines, 18 HP or so. Aside from the gearbox and heat exchanger, what would be needed to adapt one for marine use? As memory serves me they are in the $1800 range and Northern Tool sells the Kubota. Similar to this:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2581859878&category=11754
The Gentleman Sawyer

[ 12-16-2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: The Gentleman Sawyer ]

The Gentleman Sawyer
12-16-2003, 08:30 PM
I often run across replacement Kubota and Yanmar tractor engines, 18 HP or so. Aside from the gearbox and heat exchanger, what would be needed to adapt one for marine use? As memory serves me they are in the $1800 range and Northern Tool sells the Kubota. Similar to this:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2581859878&category=11754
The Gentleman Sawyer

[ 12-16-2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: The Gentleman Sawyer ]

B_B
12-17-2003, 01:00 AM
What about Deutz air-cooled engines? anybody with experience with them?

B_B
12-17-2003, 01:00 AM
What about Deutz air-cooled engines? anybody with experience with them?

B_B
12-17-2003, 01:00 AM
What about Deutz air-cooled engines? anybody with experience with them?

Gerald
12-17-2003, 02:28 AM
Sawyer .... you would also need a sea water pump. The pump pulls water thru the heat exchanger and cools the rubber exhaust hose. It is my theory that the amount of noise the motor makes is indirectly proportional to the amount of water exiting the exhaust. More water less noise. I tried the VW with a muffler and without. I couldn't hear a difference.
Gerald

Gerald
12-17-2003, 02:28 AM
Sawyer .... you would also need a sea water pump. The pump pulls water thru the heat exchanger and cools the rubber exhaust hose. It is my theory that the amount of noise the motor makes is indirectly proportional to the amount of water exiting the exhaust. More water less noise. I tried the VW with a muffler and without. I couldn't hear a difference.
Gerald

Gerald
12-17-2003, 02:28 AM
Sawyer .... you would also need a sea water pump. The pump pulls water thru the heat exchanger and cools the rubber exhaust hose. It is my theory that the amount of noise the motor makes is indirectly proportional to the amount of water exiting the exhaust. More water less noise. I tried the VW with a muffler and without. I couldn't hear a difference.
Gerald

cbob
12-17-2003, 11:09 AM
Eden, Couldn't have said it better than WWheeler. Keep it simple,light,economical, as well as not degrading sailing characteristcs, not to mention the interior smells Diesels may create, degrading enjoyment. Luck with whatever you choose, cbob

cbob
12-17-2003, 11:09 AM
Eden, Couldn't have said it better than WWheeler. Keep it simple,light,economical, as well as not degrading sailing characteristcs, not to mention the interior smells Diesels may create, degrading enjoyment. Luck with whatever you choose, cbob

cbob
12-17-2003, 11:09 AM
Eden, Couldn't have said it better than WWheeler. Keep it simple,light,economical, as well as not degrading sailing characteristcs, not to mention the interior smells Diesels may create, degrading enjoyment. Luck with whatever you choose, cbob

EdenRose
12-17-2003, 12:35 PM
cbob,
Yes, he does have the best solution, however, I am a long distance coastal cruiser, and I do need some auxilary that has power to push into a good wind and charge a battery more than I could get from just solar. I am leaning towards the Yanmar with saildrive. The boat will be built around it in mind, so the extra cost will be worth the no compromise reliable unit.
Eden Rose

EdenRose
12-17-2003, 12:35 PM
cbob,
Yes, he does have the best solution, however, I am a long distance coastal cruiser, and I do need some auxilary that has power to push into a good wind and charge a battery more than I could get from just solar. I am leaning towards the Yanmar with saildrive. The boat will be built around it in mind, so the extra cost will be worth the no compromise reliable unit.
Eden Rose

EdenRose
12-17-2003, 12:35 PM
cbob,
Yes, he does have the best solution, however, I am a long distance coastal cruiser, and I do need some auxilary that has power to push into a good wind and charge a battery more than I could get from just solar. I am leaning towards the Yanmar with saildrive. The boat will be built around it in mind, so the extra cost will be worth the no compromise reliable unit.
Eden Rose

B_B
12-17-2003, 08:46 PM
If you are starting from scratch then I would think that a saildrive would be the most intelligent solution - I don't know but stuffing boxes seem weird ;)

B_B
12-17-2003, 08:46 PM
If you are starting from scratch then I would think that a saildrive would be the most intelligent solution - I don't know but stuffing boxes seem weird ;)

B_B
12-17-2003, 08:46 PM
If you are starting from scratch then I would think that a saildrive would be the most intelligent solution - I don't know but stuffing boxes seem weird ;)

John B
12-18-2003, 03:36 AM
Be aware of the issues that go along with saildrives though. bronze and stainless steel is one thing but aluminium castings hanging under a moored boat. You don't get second chances.

John B
12-18-2003, 03:36 AM
Be aware of the issues that go along with saildrives though. bronze and stainless steel is one thing but aluminium castings hanging under a moored boat. You don't get second chances.

John B
12-18-2003, 03:36 AM
Be aware of the issues that go along with saildrives though. bronze and stainless steel is one thing but aluminium castings hanging under a moored boat. You don't get second chances.

cbob
12-18-2003, 01:34 PM
Eden, In and out of the slip and extensive coastal cruising, sustained powering a 26 ft. auxiliary sailboat against headwinds, require different power plants/installations. Choose the smoothest running 2 cylinder Japanese Diesel engine in, say, 20 horsepower range, and observe the particular unit in a similar application, try and use an offset, to which side depends on propeller rotation, right hand rotation offset to port, and go for all the marbles with a Hyde/Luke feathering propeller, or other feathering type. I prefer The Luke as they are more robust and the blades are gauged (read twisted) to be more efficient, but not cheap. I see nothing scary about stuffing boxes, they have been in use long before propellers, and are TRIED and TRUE, which cannot be said for some other arrangements, in salt water? Have fun powering into those headwinds, I usually wait for them to slack off a little. cbob.

cbob
12-18-2003, 01:34 PM
Eden, In and out of the slip and extensive coastal cruising, sustained powering a 26 ft. auxiliary sailboat against headwinds, require different power plants/installations. Choose the smoothest running 2 cylinder Japanese Diesel engine in, say, 20 horsepower range, and observe the particular unit in a similar application, try and use an offset, to which side depends on propeller rotation, right hand rotation offset to port, and go for all the marbles with a Hyde/Luke feathering propeller, or other feathering type. I prefer The Luke as they are more robust and the blades are gauged (read twisted) to be more efficient, but not cheap. I see nothing scary about stuffing boxes, they have been in use long before propellers, and are TRIED and TRUE, which cannot be said for some other arrangements, in salt water? Have fun powering into those headwinds, I usually wait for them to slack off a little. cbob.

cbob
12-18-2003, 01:34 PM
Eden, In and out of the slip and extensive coastal cruising, sustained powering a 26 ft. auxiliary sailboat against headwinds, require different power plants/installations. Choose the smoothest running 2 cylinder Japanese Diesel engine in, say, 20 horsepower range, and observe the particular unit in a similar application, try and use an offset, to which side depends on propeller rotation, right hand rotation offset to port, and go for all the marbles with a Hyde/Luke feathering propeller, or other feathering type. I prefer The Luke as they are more robust and the blades are gauged (read twisted) to be more efficient, but not cheap. I see nothing scary about stuffing boxes, they have been in use long before propellers, and are TRIED and TRUE, which cannot be said for some other arrangements, in salt water? Have fun powering into those headwinds, I usually wait for them to slack off a little. cbob.

Nicholas Carey
12-18-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by EdenRose:
I am looking for a small marine diesel to build a trailerable (24'-26') sailboat around. I am looking for a one or two cylinder just to move in and out of the marina and charge small battery bank.

I will not consider an outboard, even in a well.
What new marine diesels are out there that are small? I certainly prefer Kubota or Japanese, I have had my share of Volvo marine engines and
would like to move on.

Who makes them and who sells them?Not a diesel,but...there's the SailDrive 280 (http://www.saildrive280.com/)

http://www.saildrive280.com/images/stbddimsm.jpg

"...a drop-in replacement for the Volvo MB2/50S Saildrive", it's built around a 12-1/2hp/280cc Honday 4-stroke (gasoline) engine. Weighs 110 lbs.

Nicholas Carey
12-18-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by EdenRose:
I am looking for a small marine diesel to build a trailerable (24'-26') sailboat around. I am looking for a one or two cylinder just to move in and out of the marina and charge small battery bank.

I will not consider an outboard, even in a well.
What new marine diesels are out there that are small? I certainly prefer Kubota or Japanese, I have had my share of Volvo marine engines and
would like to move on.

Who makes them and who sells them?Not a diesel,but...there's the SailDrive 280 (http://www.saildrive280.com/)

http://www.saildrive280.com/images/stbddimsm.jpg

"...a drop-in replacement for the Volvo MB2/50S Saildrive", it's built around a 12-1/2hp/280cc Honday 4-stroke (gasoline) engine. Weighs 110 lbs.

Nicholas Carey
12-18-2003, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by EdenRose:
I am looking for a small marine diesel to build a trailerable (24'-26') sailboat around. I am looking for a one or two cylinder just to move in and out of the marina and charge small battery bank.

I will not consider an outboard, even in a well.
What new marine diesels are out there that are small? I certainly prefer Kubota or Japanese, I have had my share of Volvo marine engines and
would like to move on.

Who makes them and who sells them?Not a diesel,but...there's the SailDrive 280 (http://www.saildrive280.com/)

http://www.saildrive280.com/images/stbddimsm.jpg

"...a drop-in replacement for the Volvo MB2/50S Saildrive", it's built around a 12-1/2hp/280cc Honday 4-stroke (gasoline) engine. Weighs 110 lbs.

Dave Johnson
12-18-2003, 03:36 PM
Back in the mid '80's to mid '90's BMW made marine diesel engines that went into 26' to 30' fiberglass sailboats. The two smaller engines were a D7 and a D10, both single cylinder. I installed a D7 in my 26' yawl and the engine is a dream. It was simple to install and it is simple to operate and maintain. Do a goggle search for BMW Marine Engines and you will find a guy who rebuilds them and can send you a complete engine for a fraction of the cost for a Yanmar.

Dave Johnson
12-18-2003, 03:36 PM
Back in the mid '80's to mid '90's BMW made marine diesel engines that went into 26' to 30' fiberglass sailboats. The two smaller engines were a D7 and a D10, both single cylinder. I installed a D7 in my 26' yawl and the engine is a dream. It was simple to install and it is simple to operate and maintain. Do a goggle search for BMW Marine Engines and you will find a guy who rebuilds them and can send you a complete engine for a fraction of the cost for a Yanmar.

Dave Johnson
12-18-2003, 03:36 PM
Back in the mid '80's to mid '90's BMW made marine diesel engines that went into 26' to 30' fiberglass sailboats. The two smaller engines were a D7 and a D10, both single cylinder. I installed a D7 in my 26' yawl and the engine is a dream. It was simple to install and it is simple to operate and maintain. Do a goggle search for BMW Marine Engines and you will find a guy who rebuilds them and can send you a complete engine for a fraction of the cost for a Yanmar.

Meerkat
12-18-2003, 03:47 PM
Saildrives seem pricy compared to a similar conventional diesel/transmission.

Meerkat
12-18-2003, 03:47 PM
Saildrives seem pricy compared to a similar conventional diesel/transmission.

Meerkat
12-18-2003, 03:47 PM
Saildrives seem pricy compared to a similar conventional diesel/transmission.

bukuboy
12-18-2003, 06:41 PM
EdenRose, If an engine is what you want, make sure the thing is made, assembled, manufactured, the whole 9 yards in JAPAN, period.Try Kubota or Isuzu but make sure it comes 100% from JAPAN. "Made in the USA" is the same as "Made in China" was 30 years ago - CRAP!.Make sure the engine is marinized solely in Japan. If you insist on a Norwegian product like these silly Northwestern Americans all talk about try www.marna.no (http://www.marna.no) and look at their Diesels.Take it from me, A red- blooded American who owns a Honda Prelude and Toyota Highlander( 100% Japanese and proud of it) ----Bill

bukuboy
12-18-2003, 06:41 PM
EdenRose, If an engine is what you want, make sure the thing is made, assembled, manufactured, the whole 9 yards in JAPAN, period.Try Kubota or Isuzu but make sure it comes 100% from JAPAN. "Made in the USA" is the same as "Made in China" was 30 years ago - CRAP!.Make sure the engine is marinized solely in Japan. If you insist on a Norwegian product like these silly Northwestern Americans all talk about try www.marna.no (http://www.marna.no) and look at their Diesels.Take it from me, A red- blooded American who owns a Honda Prelude and Toyota Highlander( 100% Japanese and proud of it) ----Bill

bukuboy
12-18-2003, 06:41 PM
EdenRose, If an engine is what you want, make sure the thing is made, assembled, manufactured, the whole 9 yards in JAPAN, period.Try Kubota or Isuzu but make sure it comes 100% from JAPAN. "Made in the USA" is the same as "Made in China" was 30 years ago - CRAP!.Make sure the engine is marinized solely in Japan. If you insist on a Norwegian product like these silly Northwestern Americans all talk about try www.marna.no (http://www.marna.no) and look at their Diesels.Take it from me, A red- blooded American who owns a Honda Prelude and Toyota Highlander( 100% Japanese and proud of it) ----Bill

Gerald
12-19-2003, 09:56 AM
Bill It would probably help us a great deal to know specific problems of units assembled in the United States. If you could point those problems out I for one would be willing to contact the company and try to get them to make changes. On the other hand if you have a different agenda let us know maybe we can lend a helping hand?
BTW ...... I read your post Dreaming of moving to another country . Interesting and if you would like to know about some of the plus and minuses of an American living in another county just start a thread. I'll put my two cents worth in ........ cuz I have first hand experience.
Have a good day.
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
12-19-2003, 09:56 AM
Bill It would probably help us a great deal to know specific problems of units assembled in the United States. If you could point those problems out I for one would be willing to contact the company and try to get them to make changes. On the other hand if you have a different agenda let us know maybe we can lend a helping hand?
BTW ...... I read your post Dreaming of moving to another country . Interesting and if you would like to know about some of the plus and minuses of an American living in another county just start a thread. I'll put my two cents worth in ........ cuz I have first hand experience.
Have a good day.
Gerald Niffenegger

Gerald
12-19-2003, 09:56 AM
Bill It would probably help us a great deal to know specific problems of units assembled in the United States. If you could point those problems out I for one would be willing to contact the company and try to get them to make changes. On the other hand if you have a different agenda let us know maybe we can lend a helping hand?
BTW ...... I read your post Dreaming of moving to another country . Interesting and if you would like to know about some of the plus and minuses of an American living in another county just start a thread. I'll put my two cents worth in ........ cuz I have first hand experience.
Have a good day.
Gerald Niffenegger

Meerkat
12-23-2003, 03:18 AM
EdenRose; What design are you building?

I belive that a single cylinder 1GM10 9BHP Yanmar diesel is not sufficient for a 24-26' boat. I usually see a Yanmar 2GM20 speced for boats in that size range (and you might find your best deal for a new diesel at Fisheries Supply here in Seattle - and their print catalog ($5 for a phonebook sized catalog) is a treasure!).

Meerkat
12-23-2003, 03:18 AM
EdenRose; What design are you building?

I belive that a single cylinder 1GM10 9BHP Yanmar diesel is not sufficient for a 24-26' boat. I usually see a Yanmar 2GM20 speced for boats in that size range (and you might find your best deal for a new diesel at Fisheries Supply here in Seattle - and their print catalog ($5 for a phonebook sized catalog) is a treasure!).

Meerkat
12-23-2003, 03:18 AM
EdenRose; What design are you building?

I belive that a single cylinder 1GM10 9BHP Yanmar diesel is not sufficient for a 24-26' boat. I usually see a Yanmar 2GM20 speced for boats in that size range (and you might find your best deal for a new diesel at Fisheries Supply here in Seattle - and their print catalog ($5 for a phonebook sized catalog) is a treasure!).

EdenRose
12-23-2003, 10:54 AM
Meerkat,
Maybe a Paul Fisher adaptation, stretching to 26', of his Kittiwake Canoe Yawl. The choice is no engine or an engine, so 1 cylinder is an option. I have spoken with people who had 1 cylinders in similar size boats. Some loved them, some switched to a 2 cylinder. It depended on weight and use. With the amount of distance coastal cruising I do, you may be right and 2hp is going to be more satisfying.
Is there a new Fisheries Catalogue, finally? Mine is quite dated.

EdenRose
12-23-2003, 10:54 AM
Meerkat,
Maybe a Paul Fisher adaptation, stretching to 26', of his Kittiwake Canoe Yawl. The choice is no engine or an engine, so 1 cylinder is an option. I have spoken with people who had 1 cylinders in similar size boats. Some loved them, some switched to a 2 cylinder. It depended on weight and use. With the amount of distance coastal cruising I do, you may be right and 2hp is going to be more satisfying.
Is there a new Fisheries Catalogue, finally? Mine is quite dated.

EdenRose
12-23-2003, 10:54 AM
Meerkat,
Maybe a Paul Fisher adaptation, stretching to 26', of his Kittiwake Canoe Yawl. The choice is no engine or an engine, so 1 cylinder is an option. I have spoken with people who had 1 cylinders in similar size boats. Some loved them, some switched to a 2 cylinder. It depended on weight and use. With the amount of distance coastal cruising I do, you may be right and 2hp is going to be more satisfying.
Is there a new Fisheries Catalogue, finally? Mine is quite dated.

Kermit
12-29-2003, 09:49 AM
Marna. Cool.

Kermit
12-29-2003, 09:49 AM
Marna. Cool.

Kermit
12-29-2003, 09:49 AM
Marna. Cool.

Meerkat
12-29-2003, 06:02 PM
EdenRose; Have you looked into the trailorable 26' (or so) double ender that Barett Faneuf has commissioned from John Welsford?

Meerkat
12-29-2003, 06:02 PM
EdenRose; Have you looked into the trailorable 26' (or so) double ender that Barett Faneuf has commissioned from John Welsford?

Meerkat
12-29-2003, 06:02 PM
EdenRose; Have you looked into the trailorable 26' (or so) double ender that Barett Faneuf has commissioned from John Welsford?

EdenRose
12-29-2003, 06:22 PM
Meerkat,
I saw some drawings she posted some months back. I have been unable to contact John Welsford about the design, having left serveral unanswered messages
on his site. What is the latest on her project? Is the
design complete and has she started? I have not
cruised the forum for a while.
One design issue I wondered about was the v-berth being a little tight and having to crawl through the head to get there. Paul Fisher seems willing to figure out a way to get the enterior I would find acceptable.
Of course, there is not a lot of space in a 26' double ender.
Eden Rose

EdenRose
12-29-2003, 06:22 PM
Meerkat,
I saw some drawings she posted some months back. I have been unable to contact John Welsford about the design, having left serveral unanswered messages
on his site. What is the latest on her project? Is the
design complete and has she started? I have not
cruised the forum for a while.
One design issue I wondered about was the v-berth being a little tight and having to crawl through the head to get there. Paul Fisher seems willing to figure out a way to get the enterior I would find acceptable.
Of course, there is not a lot of space in a 26' double ender.
Eden Rose

EdenRose
12-29-2003, 06:22 PM
Meerkat,
I saw some drawings she posted some months back. I have been unable to contact John Welsford about the design, having left serveral unanswered messages
on his site. What is the latest on her project? Is the
design complete and has she started? I have not
cruised the forum for a while.
One design issue I wondered about was the v-berth being a little tight and having to crawl through the head to get there. Paul Fisher seems willing to figure out a way to get the enterior I would find acceptable.
Of course, there is not a lot of space in a 26' double ender.
Eden Rose

Meerkat
12-29-2003, 06:44 PM
EdenRose; I've lost your email address in an Outlook meltdown. Please private message or email it to me and I'll send it on to John.

What sort of interior layout are you looking for?

[ 12-29-2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

Meerkat
12-29-2003, 06:44 PM
EdenRose; I've lost your email address in an Outlook meltdown. Please private message or email it to me and I'll send it on to John.

What sort of interior layout are you looking for?

[ 12-29-2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

Meerkat
12-29-2003, 06:44 PM
EdenRose; I've lost your email address in an Outlook meltdown. Please private message or email it to me and I'll send it on to John.

What sort of interior layout are you looking for?

[ 12-29-2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

EdenRose
12-29-2003, 08:32 PM
Enclosed Head. After that it does not matter.
Otherwise my wife will not let me build it.
And it will have to have some kind of engine compartment since I won't use an outboard.
I will email you my email so you can hook me up with
JW.
Thanks,
Eden Rose

EdenRose
12-29-2003, 08:32 PM
Enclosed Head. After that it does not matter.
Otherwise my wife will not let me build it.
And it will have to have some kind of engine compartment since I won't use an outboard.
I will email you my email so you can hook me up with
JW.
Thanks,
Eden Rose

EdenRose
12-29-2003, 08:32 PM
Enclosed Head. After that it does not matter.
Otherwise my wife will not let me build it.
And it will have to have some kind of engine compartment since I won't use an outboard.
I will email you my email so you can hook me up with
JW.
Thanks,
Eden Rose