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Alan D. Hyde
10-27-2000, 06:13 PM
I have been looking around for decent quality Douglas fir to use for a new skeg on an old Chris-Craft. Douglas fir was the wood originally used.

So far, I've seen a lot of plain-sawed stuff that will cup and/or twist, is nowhere close to clear, and doesn't look very strong.

I just need a 2" x 10" x 10'. Do I have to go to somewhere like Maurice Condon, or do any of you know of a closer place?

I notice (Classic Boating) that Don Danenberg now has a shop in Utah in addition to his Michigan establishment, which likely makes him one incredibly busy individual. There are quite a few mid-western restorers of runabouts. Where do they get good-quality wood for skegs?

There sure is a lot of #3 wood being sold as #2.

Alan

Alan D. Hyde
10-27-2000, 06:13 PM
I have been looking around for decent quality Douglas fir to use for a new skeg on an old Chris-Craft. Douglas fir was the wood originally used.

So far, I've seen a lot of plain-sawed stuff that will cup and/or twist, is nowhere close to clear, and doesn't look very strong.

I just need a 2" x 10" x 10'. Do I have to go to somewhere like Maurice Condon, or do any of you know of a closer place?

I notice (Classic Boating) that Don Danenberg now has a shop in Utah in addition to his Michigan establishment, which likely makes him one incredibly busy individual. There are quite a few mid-western restorers of runabouts. Where do they get good-quality wood for skegs?

There sure is a lot of #3 wood being sold as #2.

Alan

Alan D. Hyde
10-27-2000, 06:13 PM
I have been looking around for decent quality Douglas fir to use for a new skeg on an old Chris-Craft. Douglas fir was the wood originally used.

So far, I've seen a lot of plain-sawed stuff that will cup and/or twist, is nowhere close to clear, and doesn't look very strong.

I just need a 2" x 10" x 10'. Do I have to go to somewhere like Maurice Condon, or do any of you know of a closer place?

I notice (Classic Boating) that Don Danenberg now has a shop in Utah in addition to his Michigan establishment, which likely makes him one incredibly busy individual. There are quite a few mid-western restorers of runabouts. Where do they get good-quality wood for skegs?

There sure is a lot of #3 wood being sold as #2.

Alan

NormMessinger
10-27-2000, 09:32 PM
I'd start by calling Flounder Bay. The Sitka Spurce the sent me for spars in nearly aircraft grade. All it took was a phone call and a credit card number. Third order, all to perfection. http://www.flounderbay.com/

--Norm

NormMessinger
10-27-2000, 09:32 PM
I'd start by calling Flounder Bay. The Sitka Spurce the sent me for spars in nearly aircraft grade. All it took was a phone call and a credit card number. Third order, all to perfection. http://www.flounderbay.com/

--Norm

NormMessinger
10-27-2000, 09:32 PM
I'd start by calling Flounder Bay. The Sitka Spurce the sent me for spars in nearly aircraft grade. All it took was a phone call and a credit card number. Third order, all to perfection. http://www.flounderbay.com/

--Norm

ishmael
10-27-2000, 11:00 PM
Hi Alan,

How 'bout some good midwestern red oak? Not to discourage your quest, but another wood might be suitable. Red oak is s'posed to be more stable than white, though I can't vouch from personal experience. Given its underwater, above water cycle, I think I wouldn't worry about it rotting. Best, Ishmael

ishmael
10-27-2000, 11:00 PM
Hi Alan,

How 'bout some good midwestern red oak? Not to discourage your quest, but another wood might be suitable. Red oak is s'posed to be more stable than white, though I can't vouch from personal experience. Given its underwater, above water cycle, I think I wouldn't worry about it rotting. Best, Ishmael

ishmael
10-27-2000, 11:00 PM
Hi Alan,

How 'bout some good midwestern red oak? Not to discourage your quest, but another wood might be suitable. Red oak is s'posed to be more stable than white, though I can't vouch from personal experience. Given its underwater, above water cycle, I think I wouldn't worry about it rotting. Best, Ishmael

fhagan
10-30-2000, 06:24 PM
Ishmael, I have always heard that red oak is a poor choice under the water line because of its porosity, which leads to rot, a problem white oak doesn't have. I have verified the "red oak straw test" works (take a piece of red oak, and you can blow through it along the grain.)

I was surprised to read an article in Wooden Boat a few months back about a large boat with a red oak keel, so I wonder if "red oak" is like "mahogany," with different varieties out there.

fhagan
10-30-2000, 06:24 PM
Ishmael, I have always heard that red oak is a poor choice under the water line because of its porosity, which leads to rot, a problem white oak doesn't have. I have verified the "red oak straw test" works (take a piece of red oak, and you can blow through it along the grain.)

I was surprised to read an article in Wooden Boat a few months back about a large boat with a red oak keel, so I wonder if "red oak" is like "mahogany," with different varieties out there.

fhagan
10-30-2000, 06:24 PM
Ishmael, I have always heard that red oak is a poor choice under the water line because of its porosity, which leads to rot, a problem white oak doesn't have. I have verified the "red oak straw test" works (take a piece of red oak, and you can blow through it along the grain.)

I was surprised to read an article in Wooden Boat a few months back about a large boat with a red oak keel, so I wonder if "red oak" is like "mahogany," with different varieties out there.

Alan D. Hyde
10-31-2000, 09:57 AM
Norm-----

Thanks for the suggestion. The Flounder Bay people were good to talk to, but Ken says they don't have any good Douglas Fir now.

Other thoughts, anyone?

So far I've looked through a couple of thousand pieces of 2" x 10" x 10' in stacks at local lumberyards. Not one good skeg yet.

Ishmael-----

Thanks for the idea; have heard red oak stories both ways, but the fir was original to the boat, and I am trying to rebuild to original specs.

Alan

Alan D. Hyde
10-31-2000, 09:57 AM
Norm-----

Thanks for the suggestion. The Flounder Bay people were good to talk to, but Ken says they don't have any good Douglas Fir now.

Other thoughts, anyone?

So far I've looked through a couple of thousand pieces of 2" x 10" x 10' in stacks at local lumberyards. Not one good skeg yet.

Ishmael-----

Thanks for the idea; have heard red oak stories both ways, but the fir was original to the boat, and I am trying to rebuild to original specs.

Alan

Alan D. Hyde
10-31-2000, 09:57 AM
Norm-----

Thanks for the suggestion. The Flounder Bay people were good to talk to, but Ken says they don't have any good Douglas Fir now.

Other thoughts, anyone?

So far I've looked through a couple of thousand pieces of 2" x 10" x 10' in stacks at local lumberyards. Not one good skeg yet.

Ishmael-----

Thanks for the idea; have heard red oak stories both ways, but the fir was original to the boat, and I am trying to rebuild to original specs.

Alan

htom
10-31-2000, 01:59 PM
"...The Flounder Bay people were good to talk to, but Ken says they don't have any good Douglas Fir now. ..."

Now this sounds like a company that would be a real joy to do business with.

htom
10-31-2000, 01:59 PM
"...The Flounder Bay people were good to talk to, but Ken says they don't have any good Douglas Fir now. ..."

Now this sounds like a company that would be a real joy to do business with.

htom
10-31-2000, 01:59 PM
"...The Flounder Bay people were good to talk to, but Ken says they don't have any good Douglas Fir now. ..."

Now this sounds like a company that would be a real joy to do business with.

noquiklos
10-31-2000, 03:27 PM
Try Edensaw Woods in Port Townsend, 360-385-7878.
<http://www.edensaw.com>
Roy

noquiklos
10-31-2000, 03:27 PM
Try Edensaw Woods in Port Townsend, 360-385-7878.
<http://www.edensaw.com>
Roy

noquiklos
10-31-2000, 03:27 PM
Try Edensaw Woods in Port Townsend, 360-385-7878.
<http://www.edensaw.com>
Roy

ishmael
10-31-2000, 03:28 PM
On the red oak. It's true, red oak is porous. I've done the straw test, and as fhagan said, you really can take a stick of red oak and blow bubbles in a glass of water. I wouldn't use it to frame a closed in boat 'cause the lack of ventilation can make for ideal moisture conditions for rot. But, with an open timber, like a skeg, I think the same concerns don't apply. Rot has a fairly narrow moisture content where it can grow.

I learned that for skegs and rudders, red oak can actually be superior to white oak because it has less tendency to twist. I don't have any experience one way or the other. I did work on a 28 ft cruising sailboat once that was framed with red oak. Built in the fifties, and the frame heads were a mess. So... that's what I know. Moot point since Alan will find a nice piece of fir somewhere.

And, red and white are somewhat confusing generic terms. The ultimate suitability of stock is likely variable depending on actual species (along with other things, like growing conditions?) Maybe one of our more technically minded wood folks will chime in with more information. Best all, Ishmael

P.S. Alan. The thought hit me that I might know the boat you're working on. Not likely, but what's her name?

ishmael
10-31-2000, 03:28 PM
On the red oak. It's true, red oak is porous. I've done the straw test, and as fhagan said, you really can take a stick of red oak and blow bubbles in a glass of water. I wouldn't use it to frame a closed in boat 'cause the lack of ventilation can make for ideal moisture conditions for rot. But, with an open timber, like a skeg, I think the same concerns don't apply. Rot has a fairly narrow moisture content where it can grow.

I learned that for skegs and rudders, red oak can actually be superior to white oak because it has less tendency to twist. I don't have any experience one way or the other. I did work on a 28 ft cruising sailboat once that was framed with red oak. Built in the fifties, and the frame heads were a mess. So... that's what I know. Moot point since Alan will find a nice piece of fir somewhere.

And, red and white are somewhat confusing generic terms. The ultimate suitability of stock is likely variable depending on actual species (along with other things, like growing conditions?) Maybe one of our more technically minded wood folks will chime in with more information. Best all, Ishmael

P.S. Alan. The thought hit me that I might know the boat you're working on. Not likely, but what's her name?

ishmael
10-31-2000, 03:28 PM
On the red oak. It's true, red oak is porous. I've done the straw test, and as fhagan said, you really can take a stick of red oak and blow bubbles in a glass of water. I wouldn't use it to frame a closed in boat 'cause the lack of ventilation can make for ideal moisture conditions for rot. But, with an open timber, like a skeg, I think the same concerns don't apply. Rot has a fairly narrow moisture content where it can grow.

I learned that for skegs and rudders, red oak can actually be superior to white oak because it has less tendency to twist. I don't have any experience one way or the other. I did work on a 28 ft cruising sailboat once that was framed with red oak. Built in the fifties, and the frame heads were a mess. So... that's what I know. Moot point since Alan will find a nice piece of fir somewhere.

And, red and white are somewhat confusing generic terms. The ultimate suitability of stock is likely variable depending on actual species (along with other things, like growing conditions?) Maybe one of our more technically minded wood folks will chime in with more information. Best all, Ishmael

P.S. Alan. The thought hit me that I might know the boat you're working on. Not likely, but what's her name?

Alan D. Hyde
10-31-2000, 03:54 PM
Ishmael-----

Don't know original name or owner, but most recently "Whiskey Runner" out of (I think) Erie, Pennsylvania.

Noquiklos-----

Thanks for suggesting www.edensaw.com. (http://www.edensaw.com.) They have some good douglas fir, although it is far away and not cheap ($5.61/bf plus shipping). Melinda there is very pleasant and helpful. If I can't find any closer and cheaper, I will probably buy from them.

They also have a GREAT pictorial on the schooner "Attu," which is for sale at their site. It's a big Howard Chappelle pinky in what appears to be excellent condition. It's worth going there just to have a look at some splendid photos.

Way out of my own price range, I'm afraid.

Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan D. Hyde (edited 10-31-2000).]

Alan D. Hyde
10-31-2000, 03:54 PM
Ishmael-----

Don't know original name or owner, but most recently "Whiskey Runner" out of (I think) Erie, Pennsylvania.

Noquiklos-----

Thanks for suggesting www.edensaw.com. (http://www.edensaw.com.) They have some good douglas fir, although it is far away and not cheap ($5.61/bf plus shipping). Melinda there is very pleasant and helpful. If I can't find any closer and cheaper, I will probably buy from them.

They also have a GREAT pictorial on the schooner "Attu," which is for sale at their site. It's a big Howard Chappelle pinky in what appears to be excellent condition. It's worth going there just to have a look at some splendid photos.

Way out of my own price range, I'm afraid.

Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan D. Hyde (edited 10-31-2000).]

Alan D. Hyde
10-31-2000, 03:54 PM
Ishmael-----

Don't know original name or owner, but most recently "Whiskey Runner" out of (I think) Erie, Pennsylvania.

Noquiklos-----

Thanks for suggesting www.edensaw.com. (http://www.edensaw.com.) They have some good douglas fir, although it is far away and not cheap ($5.61/bf plus shipping). Melinda there is very pleasant and helpful. If I can't find any closer and cheaper, I will probably buy from them.

They also have a GREAT pictorial on the schooner "Attu," which is for sale at their site. It's a big Howard Chappelle pinky in what appears to be excellent condition. It's worth going there just to have a look at some splendid photos.

Way out of my own price range, I'm afraid.

Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan D. Hyde (edited 10-31-2000).]

John Laurino
11-12-2000, 04:33 PM
I found a very clear 2"*8"*20' at exotic lumber in annapolis.....

John Laurino
11-12-2000, 04:33 PM
I found a very clear 2"*8"*20' at exotic lumber in annapolis.....

John Laurino
11-12-2000, 04:33 PM
I found a very clear 2"*8"*20' at exotic lumber in annapolis.....

landlocked sailor
11-12-2000, 06:43 PM
I found a perfectly clear 2x12x20' at my local lumber yard. I check every time I go there and lightning has yet to strike twice. Rick

landlocked sailor
11-12-2000, 06:43 PM
I found a perfectly clear 2x12x20' at my local lumber yard. I check every time I go there and lightning has yet to strike twice. Rick

landlocked sailor
11-12-2000, 06:43 PM
I found a perfectly clear 2x12x20' at my local lumber yard. I check every time I go there and lightning has yet to strike twice. Rick

Alan D. Hyde
11-13-2000, 04:10 PM
What I am looking for (I have now discovered) is known in the trade as CVG (clear vertical grain) douglas fir.

I have found some 2" x 10" x 10' in Washington State (Edensaw), and some one by in Indiana (Carter-Lee).

The guy here with the one by will put two 1" x 10" x 10' in his gluing press for me, and glue them with resorcinol. This should be stronger. So, at this point, that's what I'm planning to do.

Alan

Alan D. Hyde
11-13-2000, 04:10 PM
What I am looking for (I have now discovered) is known in the trade as CVG (clear vertical grain) douglas fir.

I have found some 2" x 10" x 10' in Washington State (Edensaw), and some one by in Indiana (Carter-Lee).

The guy here with the one by will put two 1" x 10" x 10' in his gluing press for me, and glue them with resorcinol. This should be stronger. So, at this point, that's what I'm planning to do.

Alan

Alan D. Hyde
11-13-2000, 04:10 PM
What I am looking for (I have now discovered) is known in the trade as CVG (clear vertical grain) douglas fir.

I have found some 2" x 10" x 10' in Washington State (Edensaw), and some one by in Indiana (Carter-Lee).

The guy here with the one by will put two 1" x 10" x 10' in his gluing press for me, and glue them with resorcinol. This should be stronger. So, at this point, that's what I'm planning to do.

Alan

paladin
12-17-2000, 06:40 AM
Alan, go to the lumber yard and get the best clear vertical grain fir that they have in one by four or one by six stock. Rip the board in one inch wide pieces and rotate every other piece 180 degrees and epoxy the plank back together. Clean the sides and make another board the same way and offset the grain patterns and glue the two planks together, and continue this trick until you get the thickness you want. A little more time, cheap wood, dimensionally stable, sealed on four sides and locally obtained. Have built rudders, centerboards and all the framing for my Lyle Hess 40 footer this way(not the centerboard, that was for anothr boat). Good luck
Chuck

paladin
12-17-2000, 06:40 AM
Alan, go to the lumber yard and get the best clear vertical grain fir that they have in one by four or one by six stock. Rip the board in one inch wide pieces and rotate every other piece 180 degrees and epoxy the plank back together. Clean the sides and make another board the same way and offset the grain patterns and glue the two planks together, and continue this trick until you get the thickness you want. A little more time, cheap wood, dimensionally stable, sealed on four sides and locally obtained. Have built rudders, centerboards and all the framing for my Lyle Hess 40 footer this way(not the centerboard, that was for anothr boat). Good luck
Chuck

paladin
12-17-2000, 06:40 AM
Alan, go to the lumber yard and get the best clear vertical grain fir that they have in one by four or one by six stock. Rip the board in one inch wide pieces and rotate every other piece 180 degrees and epoxy the plank back together. Clean the sides and make another board the same way and offset the grain patterns and glue the two planks together, and continue this trick until you get the thickness you want. A little more time, cheap wood, dimensionally stable, sealed on four sides and locally obtained. Have built rudders, centerboards and all the framing for my Lyle Hess 40 footer this way(not the centerboard, that was for anothr boat). Good luck
Chuck

Tom Lathrop
12-17-2000, 09:20 AM
Alan,

Maybe I'm missing something here. The easiest way to get quartersawn wood if it's not readily available is to cut and laminate planesawn like the previous poster said. I know that most of the stuff at the building supply is poor quality, but laminating will make it better by allowing you to discard really bad areas and isolating possible splits and cracks. It may not look as elegant as a straight grained piece of quartersawn virgin fir (which we may never see again) but it may be stronger and last as long.

My fairing batten is an offcut from a mast building job in the 1960s and if it got lost or damaged, I don't know how I'd replace it today.

Tom Lathrop
12-17-2000, 09:20 AM
Alan,

Maybe I'm missing something here. The easiest way to get quartersawn wood if it's not readily available is to cut and laminate planesawn like the previous poster said. I know that most of the stuff at the building supply is poor quality, but laminating will make it better by allowing you to discard really bad areas and isolating possible splits and cracks. It may not look as elegant as a straight grained piece of quartersawn virgin fir (which we may never see again) but it may be stronger and last as long.

My fairing batten is an offcut from a mast building job in the 1960s and if it got lost or damaged, I don't know how I'd replace it today.

Tom Lathrop
12-17-2000, 09:20 AM
Alan,

Maybe I'm missing something here. The easiest way to get quartersawn wood if it's not readily available is to cut and laminate planesawn like the previous poster said. I know that most of the stuff at the building supply is poor quality, but laminating will make it better by allowing you to discard really bad areas and isolating possible splits and cracks. It may not look as elegant as a straight grained piece of quartersawn virgin fir (which we may never see again) but it may be stronger and last as long.

My fairing batten is an offcut from a mast building job in the 1960s and if it got lost or damaged, I don't know how I'd replace it today.

Ross Faneuf
12-17-2000, 06:49 PM
Interestingly, I was taught that rip and reglue technique as a way to get stable stock for drawer sides and backs. It works very well.

Ross Faneuf
12-17-2000, 06:49 PM
Interestingly, I was taught that rip and reglue technique as a way to get stable stock for drawer sides and backs. It works very well.

Ross Faneuf
12-17-2000, 06:49 PM
Interestingly, I was taught that rip and reglue technique as a way to get stable stock for drawer sides and backs. It works very well.

Fletch
12-17-2000, 08:34 PM
Alan, if you're still looking for cvg Doug Fir,try CrossCut Hardwoods in Portland, OR. They ship. Their phone # is 503-224-9663.

Fletch
12-17-2000, 08:34 PM
Alan, if you're still looking for cvg Doug Fir,try CrossCut Hardwoods in Portland, OR. They ship. Their phone # is 503-224-9663.

Fletch
12-17-2000, 08:34 PM
Alan, if you're still looking for cvg Doug Fir,try CrossCut Hardwoods in Portland, OR. They ship. Their phone # is 503-224-9663.

paladin
12-20-2000, 02:49 PM
Tom Lathrop,
How long is your batten and is it tapered or constant Chord?
Chuck Phillips

paladin
12-20-2000, 02:49 PM
Tom Lathrop,
How long is your batten and is it tapered or constant Chord?
Chuck Phillips

paladin
12-20-2000, 02:49 PM
Tom Lathrop,
How long is your batten and is it tapered or constant Chord?
Chuck Phillips

Tom Lathrop
12-20-2000, 06:22 PM
It's 20ft long and 3/8in by 1 1/4in close grained doug fir. No taper and very straight grained so it bends uniformly.

Tom Lathrop
12-20-2000, 06:22 PM
It's 20ft long and 3/8in by 1 1/4in close grained doug fir. No taper and very straight grained so it bends uniformly.

Tom Lathrop
12-20-2000, 06:22 PM
It's 20ft long and 3/8in by 1 1/4in close grained doug fir. No taper and very straight grained so it bends uniformly.

Alan D. Hyde
12-21-2000, 10:28 AM
I have found some CVG Douglas Fir in Indianapolis, at Carter-Lee Lumber Company on West Washington Street. They are very helpful, have a large glue press, and will laminate whatever is needed for heavy stock with resorcinal or whatever you specify.

Price is cheaper than shipping from the Northwest.

The contact person is David Carter (the same guy who climbed Everest). Their telephone is (317) 639-5431.

I have no financial interest in the Company. Indeed, the money will soon be flowing the other direction.

Happy holidays to all; may all our projects prosper.

Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan D. Hyde (edited 12-21-2000).]

Alan D. Hyde
12-21-2000, 10:28 AM
I have found some CVG Douglas Fir in Indianapolis, at Carter-Lee Lumber Company on West Washington Street. They are very helpful, have a large glue press, and will laminate whatever is needed for heavy stock with resorcinal or whatever you specify.

Price is cheaper than shipping from the Northwest.

The contact person is David Carter (the same guy who climbed Everest). Their telephone is (317) 639-5431.

I have no financial interest in the Company. Indeed, the money will soon be flowing the other direction.

Happy holidays to all; may all our projects prosper.

Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan D. Hyde (edited 12-21-2000).]

Alan D. Hyde
12-21-2000, 10:28 AM
I have found some CVG Douglas Fir in Indianapolis, at Carter-Lee Lumber Company on West Washington Street. They are very helpful, have a large glue press, and will laminate whatever is needed for heavy stock with resorcinal or whatever you specify.

Price is cheaper than shipping from the Northwest.

The contact person is David Carter (the same guy who climbed Everest). Their telephone is (317) 639-5431.

I have no financial interest in the Company. Indeed, the money will soon be flowing the other direction.

Happy holidays to all; may all our projects prosper.

Alan

[This message has been edited by Alan D. Hyde (edited 12-21-2000).]

Mark Van
12-24-2000, 01:46 PM
I got some really nice Fir that was flooring torn out of an old house. It was toungue and groove, but it could be ripped down to 2". All of it was clear, straignt, virtical grain, in lengths up to 14'. I think it was common in houses built in the twenties.
Mark

Mark Van
12-24-2000, 01:46 PM
I got some really nice Fir that was flooring torn out of an old house. It was toungue and groove, but it could be ripped down to 2". All of it was clear, straignt, virtical grain, in lengths up to 14'. I think it was common in houses built in the twenties.
Mark

Mark Van
12-24-2000, 01:46 PM
I got some really nice Fir that was flooring torn out of an old house. It was toungue and groove, but it could be ripped down to 2". All of it was clear, straignt, virtical grain, in lengths up to 14'. I think it was common in houses built in the twenties.
Mark

steve sparhawk
12-29-2000, 01:25 AM
A neighbor gave me some nice utility pole crossarms. Old-growth doug fir-really close grained and dense-probably sixty years old. 3"by4" and 10' long. a couple of bolt holes could be doweled and be just right. If you are close to South Dakota, they are free. gssparhawk@prodigy.net

steve sparhawk
12-29-2000, 01:25 AM
A neighbor gave me some nice utility pole crossarms. Old-growth doug fir-really close grained and dense-probably sixty years old. 3"by4" and 10' long. a couple of bolt holes could be doweled and be just right. If you are close to South Dakota, they are free. gssparhawk@prodigy.net

steve sparhawk
12-29-2000, 01:25 AM
A neighbor gave me some nice utility pole crossarms. Old-growth doug fir-really close grained and dense-probably sixty years old. 3"by4" and 10' long. a couple of bolt holes could be doweled and be just right. If you are close to South Dakota, they are free. gssparhawk@prodigy.net