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Garrett Lowell
01-14-2004, 07:54 AM
Well, I just picked up a type 1 (patent date of June 17 1879 on the dovetailed sole connection). Here's (http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/TypeStudy/StanNo113cpTypestudy.htm) a link about this type of plane. The only difference is that the adjustment wheel on the plane I have has four holes in it, much like a mag wheel.
My question is: there's no iron, and the device that holds the iron is gone, as well (I don't know the actual term for this). Can anyone tell me what iron this plane takes (Hock tools quoted $60.00 for a #113 blade, which is $45.00 more than I paid for the plane)? Also, what is the name of the part that holds the iron? Any help will be much appreciated, and any other advice concerning planes of this type.

Garrett

Garrett Lowell
01-14-2004, 07:54 AM
Well, I just picked up a type 1 (patent date of June 17 1879 on the dovetailed sole connection). Here's (http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/TypeStudy/StanNo113cpTypestudy.htm) a link about this type of plane. The only difference is that the adjustment wheel on the plane I have has four holes in it, much like a mag wheel.
My question is: there's no iron, and the device that holds the iron is gone, as well (I don't know the actual term for this). Can anyone tell me what iron this plane takes (Hock tools quoted $60.00 for a #113 blade, which is $45.00 more than I paid for the plane)? Also, what is the name of the part that holds the iron? Any help will be much appreciated, and any other advice concerning planes of this type.

Garrett

Garrett Lowell
01-14-2004, 07:54 AM
Well, I just picked up a type 1 (patent date of June 17 1879 on the dovetailed sole connection). Here's (http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/TypeStudy/StanNo113cpTypestudy.htm) a link about this type of plane. The only difference is that the adjustment wheel on the plane I have has four holes in it, much like a mag wheel.
My question is: there's no iron, and the device that holds the iron is gone, as well (I don't know the actual term for this). Can anyone tell me what iron this plane takes (Hock tools quoted $60.00 for a #113 blade, which is $45.00 more than I paid for the plane)? Also, what is the name of the part that holds the iron? Any help will be much appreciated, and any other advice concerning planes of this type.

Garrett

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 08:33 AM
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42250332.jpg

Well, I certainly have one...will have to look at it to diagnose what you are missing. I'm sure it's a conventional Stanley iron/breaker/cap, the frog is built into the body as I remember and isn't adjustable as the mouth opening is tiny.

One change you do have to make....mount a set screw in the adjustable front knob if it doesn't have one. Otherwise holding it by the front knob will cause it to change sole radius while you are planing.

[ 01-14-2004, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 08:33 AM
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42250332.jpg

Well, I certainly have one...will have to look at it to diagnose what you are missing. I'm sure it's a conventional Stanley iron/breaker/cap, the frog is built into the body as I remember and isn't adjustable as the mouth opening is tiny.

One change you do have to make....mount a set screw in the adjustable front knob if it doesn't have one. Otherwise holding it by the front knob will cause it to change sole radius while you are planing.

[ 01-14-2004, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 08:33 AM
http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42250332.jpg

Well, I certainly have one...will have to look at it to diagnose what you are missing. I'm sure it's a conventional Stanley iron/breaker/cap, the frog is built into the body as I remember and isn't adjustable as the mouth opening is tiny.

One change you do have to make....mount a set screw in the adjustable front knob if it doesn't have one. Otherwise holding it by the front knob will cause it to change sole radius while you are planing.

[ 01-14-2004, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Jack Heinlen
01-14-2004, 08:38 AM
A weak point on these is where the soles are fastened to the body. They are riveted. Something to look at, though I don't know of an easy fix. Later ones were spot welded.

Jack Heinlen
01-14-2004, 08:38 AM
A weak point on these is where the soles are fastened to the body. They are riveted. Something to look at, though I don't know of an easy fix. Later ones were spot welded.

Jack Heinlen
01-14-2004, 08:38 AM
A weak point on these is where the soles are fastened to the body. They are riveted. Something to look at, though I don't know of an easy fix. Later ones were spot welded.

Garrett Lowell
01-14-2004, 08:45 AM
Thanks Donn and Bob. The frog is present on the plane. If you look at Bob's plane, his has (in front of the iron) a cap with a thumb flip-lever. Mine has a screw. (http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/ToolImages/Circular/StanNo113.JPG) The part missing, other than the iron, is the very long piece just behind the iron. Someone else told me that the iron may be the same as a Stanley #3, 1 3/4", but they couldn't be sure. But, if this is true, would, perhaps, that long piece behind the iron be the same as for a #3, as well? I'm embarrassed that I don't know what that piece is called, but perhaps someone can educate me. Thanks again.

Garrett Lowell
01-14-2004, 08:45 AM
Thanks Donn and Bob. The frog is present on the plane. If you look at Bob's plane, his has (in front of the iron) a cap with a thumb flip-lever. Mine has a screw. (http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/ToolImages/Circular/StanNo113.JPG) The part missing, other than the iron, is the very long piece just behind the iron. Someone else told me that the iron may be the same as a Stanley #3, 1 3/4", but they couldn't be sure. But, if this is true, would, perhaps, that long piece behind the iron be the same as for a #3, as well? I'm embarrassed that I don't know what that piece is called, but perhaps someone can educate me. Thanks again.

Garrett Lowell
01-14-2004, 08:45 AM
Thanks Donn and Bob. The frog is present on the plane. If you look at Bob's plane, his has (in front of the iron) a cap with a thumb flip-lever. Mine has a screw. (http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/ToolImages/Circular/StanNo113.JPG) The part missing, other than the iron, is the very long piece just behind the iron. Someone else told me that the iron may be the same as a Stanley #3, 1 3/4", but they couldn't be sure. But, if this is true, would, perhaps, that long piece behind the iron be the same as for a #3, as well? I'm embarrassed that I don't know what that piece is called, but perhaps someone can educate me. Thanks again.

Bruce Hooke
01-14-2004, 09:49 AM
Working forward from the iron, the next piece in the 'stack' is the chip breaker. The chip breaker is typically attached to the iron with a screw that threads into the iron. The iron and chip breaker are then held to the plane by a lever cap or cap iron that fits under the head of a screw that goes into the frog.

The iron and chip breaker should not be that hard to replace but the lever cap could be a little more tricky. 1 3/4" is a standard plane iron width so the key question is does the hole in the chip breaker for the adjustment lever fall in reasonably the right place. If it doesn't then you might be able to make a new hole in the right place. Replacement plane irons and chip breakers are available from various woodworking supply places such as Woodcraft, Garrett-Wade, Japan Woodworker, etc. On the cap iron, hopefully a cap iron from a standard Stanley bench plane will fit. If so, it shouldn't be that hard to find a replacement. Of course you can try this all out without spending any money by simply borrowing an iron, chip breaker and lever cap from a 1 3/4" plane. Of course, if you want accurate historical replacements then you will need to do good bit more searching.

Bruce Hooke
01-14-2004, 09:49 AM
Working forward from the iron, the next piece in the 'stack' is the chip breaker. The chip breaker is typically attached to the iron with a screw that threads into the iron. The iron and chip breaker are then held to the plane by a lever cap or cap iron that fits under the head of a screw that goes into the frog.

The iron and chip breaker should not be that hard to replace but the lever cap could be a little more tricky. 1 3/4" is a standard plane iron width so the key question is does the hole in the chip breaker for the adjustment lever fall in reasonably the right place. If it doesn't then you might be able to make a new hole in the right place. Replacement plane irons and chip breakers are available from various woodworking supply places such as Woodcraft, Garrett-Wade, Japan Woodworker, etc. On the cap iron, hopefully a cap iron from a standard Stanley bench plane will fit. If so, it shouldn't be that hard to find a replacement. Of course you can try this all out without spending any money by simply borrowing an iron, chip breaker and lever cap from a 1 3/4" plane. Of course, if you want accurate historical replacements then you will need to do good bit more searching.

Bruce Hooke
01-14-2004, 09:49 AM
Working forward from the iron, the next piece in the 'stack' is the chip breaker. The chip breaker is typically attached to the iron with a screw that threads into the iron. The iron and chip breaker are then held to the plane by a lever cap or cap iron that fits under the head of a screw that goes into the frog.

The iron and chip breaker should not be that hard to replace but the lever cap could be a little more tricky. 1 3/4" is a standard plane iron width so the key question is does the hole in the chip breaker for the adjustment lever fall in reasonably the right place. If it doesn't then you might be able to make a new hole in the right place. Replacement plane irons and chip breakers are available from various woodworking supply places such as Woodcraft, Garrett-Wade, Japan Woodworker, etc. On the cap iron, hopefully a cap iron from a standard Stanley bench plane will fit. If so, it shouldn't be that hard to find a replacement. Of course you can try this all out without spending any money by simply borrowing an iron, chip breaker and lever cap from a 1 3/4" plane. Of course, if you want accurate historical replacements then you will need to do good bit more searching.

reddog
01-14-2004, 10:02 AM
Garrett;
I recently purchased an older #113 iron and chip breaker thinking they would fit a #3 in need of such.I believe the 13/4" iron would work but the chip breaker is different.These may fit your 113.Let me know and I could send them down by mail.If they work you can pay the postage.
Earl

reddog
01-14-2004, 10:02 AM
Garrett;
I recently purchased an older #113 iron and chip breaker thinking they would fit a #3 in need of such.I believe the 13/4" iron would work but the chip breaker is different.These may fit your 113.Let me know and I could send them down by mail.If they work you can pay the postage.
Earl

reddog
01-14-2004, 10:02 AM
Garrett;
I recently purchased an older #113 iron and chip breaker thinking they would fit a #3 in need of such.I believe the 13/4" iron would work but the chip breaker is different.These may fit your 113.Let me know and I could send them down by mail.If they work you can pay the postage.
Earl

Bruce Hooke
01-14-2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Donn:
Is it named 'frog' after the sword belt frog (fastener) that holds a sword or bayonet?
I'm thinking it's because the frog on a plane is shaped rather like a frog...

Bruce Hooke
01-14-2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Donn:
Is it named 'frog' after the sword belt frog (fastener) that holds a sword or bayonet?
I'm thinking it's because the frog on a plane is shaped rather like a frog...

Bruce Hooke
01-14-2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Donn:
Is it named 'frog' after the sword belt frog (fastener) that holds a sword or bayonet?
I'm thinking it's because the frog on a plane is shaped rather like a frog...

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 11:33 AM
After 5 minutes in the shop with my 113 and #3....

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42819124.jpg

The cutting irons are identical, but both the chip breaker iron and the lever cap are different. The 113's chip breaker is significantly longer and I couldn't get an adjustment using the #3's chipbreaker.

The lever cap looks OK from the front...

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42819115.jpg

...but the #3's is thicker than the 113's and I couldn't interchange those with a screw adjustment, either.

So it appears you will have to acquire the correct ones, as I don't believe I could adequately machine a #3's set to function properly in a 113.

[ 01-14-2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 11:33 AM
After 5 minutes in the shop with my 113 and #3....

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42819124.jpg

The cutting irons are identical, but both the chip breaker iron and the lever cap are different. The 113's chip breaker is significantly longer and I couldn't get an adjustment using the #3's chipbreaker.

The lever cap looks OK from the front...

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42819115.jpg

...but the #3's is thicker than the 113's and I couldn't interchange those with a screw adjustment, either.

So it appears you will have to acquire the correct ones, as I don't believe I could adequately machine a #3's set to function properly in a 113.

[ 01-14-2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 11:33 AM
After 5 minutes in the shop with my 113 and #3....

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42819124.jpg

The cutting irons are identical, but both the chip breaker iron and the lever cap are different. The 113's chip breaker is significantly longer and I couldn't get an adjustment using the #3's chipbreaker.

The lever cap looks OK from the front...

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/42819115.jpg

...but the #3's is thicker than the 113's and I couldn't interchange those with a screw adjustment, either.

So it appears you will have to acquire the correct ones, as I don't believe I could adequately machine a #3's set to function properly in a 113.

[ 01-14-2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

reddog
01-14-2004, 11:58 AM
Bob S.
The chip breaker I have is a solid plate with only the threaded hole for the screw.No slots at all.Hmmm...
Earl

reddog
01-14-2004, 11:58 AM
Bob S.
The chip breaker I have is a solid plate with only the threaded hole for the screw.No slots at all.Hmmm...
Earl

reddog
01-14-2004, 11:58 AM
Bob S.
The chip breaker I have is a solid plate with only the threaded hole for the screw.No slots at all.Hmmm...
Earl

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 12:09 PM
Earl...perhaps it would work on a Type 1 without the later screw adjustment...would have to try it.

http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/CatalogImages/No113CircularPlaneType1_small.jpg

The one I'm showing is a later Type 4, I believe:

http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/CatalogImages/No113CircularPlaneType4_small.jpg

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 12:09 PM
Earl...perhaps it would work on a Type 1 without the later screw adjustment...would have to try it.

http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/CatalogImages/No113CircularPlaneType1_small.jpg

The one I'm showing is a later Type 4, I believe:

http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/CatalogImages/No113CircularPlaneType4_small.jpg

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 12:09 PM
Earl...perhaps it would work on a Type 1 without the later screw adjustment...would have to try it.

http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/CatalogImages/No113CircularPlaneType1_small.jpg

The one I'm showing is a later Type 4, I believe:

http://users.ev1.net/~gmuster/CatalogImages/No113CircularPlaneType4_small.jpg

reddog
01-14-2004, 01:51 PM
Bob;
That is probably the case as it was advertised on e-bay as from an early model #113.It may work on Garrett's plane.I'm still looking for a chip breaker for my #3 and will probably spring for a Hock or LV replacement blade.
Earl

reddog
01-14-2004, 01:51 PM
Bob;
That is probably the case as it was advertised on e-bay as from an early model #113.It may work on Garrett's plane.I'm still looking for a chip breaker for my #3 and will probably spring for a Hock or LV replacement blade.
Earl

reddog
01-14-2004, 01:51 PM
Bob;
That is probably the case as it was advertised on e-bay as from an early model #113.It may work on Garrett's plane.I'm still looking for a chip breaker for my #3 and will probably spring for a Hock or LV replacement blade.
Earl

Garrett Lowell
01-14-2004, 04:35 PM
Earl, Bob, and Donn:

Thanks again for all of your help. Earl, I have sent you an email to your profile email address; and thanks for the offer. Bob, thanks for taking the time to do the comparison, and the other advice about setting up the plane. Donn, of course, you are the man when it comes to research! The WBF never ceases to amaze me.

Edited to add: Thanks, Bruce, as well. Great information.

[ 01-14-2004, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Garrett Lowell ]

Garrett Lowell
01-14-2004, 04:35 PM
Earl, Bob, and Donn:

Thanks again for all of your help. Earl, I have sent you an email to your profile email address; and thanks for the offer. Bob, thanks for taking the time to do the comparison, and the other advice about setting up the plane. Donn, of course, you are the man when it comes to research! The WBF never ceases to amaze me.

Edited to add: Thanks, Bruce, as well. Great information.

[ 01-14-2004, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Garrett Lowell ]

Garrett Lowell
01-14-2004, 04:35 PM
Earl, Bob, and Donn:

Thanks again for all of your help. Earl, I have sent you an email to your profile email address; and thanks for the offer. Bob, thanks for taking the time to do the comparison, and the other advice about setting up the plane. Donn, of course, you are the man when it comes to research! The WBF never ceases to amaze me.

Edited to add: Thanks, Bruce, as well. Great information.

[ 01-14-2004, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: Garrett Lowell ]

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 08:13 PM
Here's your parts plane:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V iewItem&item=3266208926&category=13874 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3266208926&category=13874)

http://kaazh.pair.com/woodsman/Jan-8-1.jpg

[ 01-14-2004, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 08:13 PM
Here's your parts plane:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V iewItem&item=3266208926&category=13874 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3266208926&category=13874)

http://kaazh.pair.com/woodsman/Jan-8-1.jpg

[ 01-14-2004, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Bob Smalser
01-14-2004, 08:13 PM
Here's your parts plane:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?V iewItem&item=3266208926&category=13874 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3266208926&category=13874)

http://kaazh.pair.com/woodsman/Jan-8-1.jpg

[ 01-14-2004, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

Nicholas Carey
01-14-2004, 08:23 PM
late to the party, but you might want to post a query to the OLD TOOLS list. The galoots and Neanderthals there might have more/better info for you.

Ralph Brendler (http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/) maintains the Old Tools Homepage at

http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/oldtools.html

You'll need to subscribe to the list to be able to post (although, you might like it there... :D ) It's a fairly high-volume list (100+ emails per day), but once subscribed, you can set your subscription to digest mode, which means you'll get just 1 [rather big] message per day, containing all the messages posted that day.

OldTools does have a searchable web archive at the University of Alaska/Fairbanks:

http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/

Nicholas Carey
01-14-2004, 08:23 PM
late to the party, but you might want to post a query to the OLD TOOLS list. The galoots and Neanderthals there might have more/better info for you.

Ralph Brendler (http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/) maintains the Old Tools Homepage at

http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/oldtools.html

You'll need to subscribe to the list to be able to post (although, you might like it there... :D ) It's a fairly high-volume list (100+ emails per day), but once subscribed, you can set your subscription to digest mode, which means you'll get just 1 [rather big] message per day, containing all the messages posted that day.

OldTools does have a searchable web archive at the University of Alaska/Fairbanks:

http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/

Nicholas Carey
01-14-2004, 08:23 PM
late to the party, but you might want to post a query to the OLD TOOLS list. The galoots and Neanderthals there might have more/better info for you.

Ralph Brendler (http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/) maintains the Old Tools Homepage at

http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/oldtools.html

You'll need to subscribe to the list to be able to post (although, you might like it there... :D ) It's a fairly high-volume list (100+ emails per day), but once subscribed, you can set your subscription to digest mode, which means you'll get just 1 [rather big] message per day, containing all the messages posted that day.

OldTools does have a searchable web archive at the University of Alaska/Fairbanks:

http://www.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswingle/archive/

Garrett Lowell
01-15-2004, 07:27 AM
Nicholas and Bob,

Thanks again. I'll be checking those out. A parts plane is a good idea.

Garrett Lowell
01-15-2004, 07:27 AM
Nicholas and Bob,

Thanks again. I'll be checking those out. A parts plane is a good idea.

Garrett Lowell
01-15-2004, 07:27 AM
Nicholas and Bob,

Thanks again. I'll be checking those out. A parts plane is a good idea.