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Rum_Pirate
10-21-2015, 12:09 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/size-does-matter--judge-oks-preliminary-deal-on-subway-case-b99600028z1-334633971.html?page=1


http://media.jrn.com/designimages/feed-icon-16x16_JSO.gif (http://www.jsonline.com/rss?c=y&path=/news/wisconsin)Wisconsin

Size does matter — judge OKs preliminary deal on Subway case

http://media.jrn.com/images/b99600028z.1_20151020134527_000_ga1d19m6.1-0.jpg
One of the plaintiffs in the case shows a sandwich measuring less than the advertised 12 inches, as included in the civil complaint.

By Bruce Vielmetti (bvielmetti@journalsentinel.com) of the Journal Sentinel
Oct. 20, 2015
Size does matter after all, in sandwiches if not class action settlements.
After lengthy litigation over the measurement of Subway's foot-long and six-inch sandwiches, a federal judge in Milwaukee has signed off on a preliminary resolution of several class action lawsuits over the issue.
The final approved class may be one of the largest in any kind of lawsuit — everyone who bought a Subway sandwich in the U.S. since 2003. No court records even try to put a number to that besides tens of millions; there are 27,000 Subway shops in the U.S.
But all most of the class members will get from the deal is the assurance that Subway now pays more attention to the dimensions of its subs. Nine named plaintiffs, as representatives of the class, could get up to $1,000 each.
Despite the enormity of the class, the final payout for attorney fees and costs, including the class representative payments, will not exceed $525,000, according to court records.
Thomas Zimmerman of Chicago, one of the lead plaintiff attorneys, noted that won't cover all the time all the parties spent on the case, which included thousands of pages of information from both sides, as well as third parties.
After one Subway customer's lament that his foot-long was not in fact 12 inches long took off on social media in 2012, several lawsuits followed in various state and federal courts.
They were all combined into one action that landed before U.S. District Judge Lynn Adelman in Milwaukee, who earlier this month signed an order preliminarily approving the settlement.
The defendant in the actions, Subway's franchiser Doctor's Associates Inc., issued a news release late Monday about the settlement. It notes that nothing in the settlement found Subway's marketing was unlawful or improper.
Any class member who objects to the settlement can still write to Adelman by Dec. 16 or attend a final Settlement Fairness Hearing in Milwaukee on Jan. 15. There's a special website established to answer questions for anyone hungry for more information about the deal, www.subsettlement.com (http://www.subsettlement.com/).



When the first lawsuits were filed, some plaintiff customers were seeking up to $5 million, claiming fraud and deceptive trade practices.
Subway explained that its roll — for its long or short sandwiches — is made from the same weight of dough, but that inherent inconsistencies of kneading, rising, shaping and baking left some a little short.
It should be noted that the settlement only covers injunctive relief. "No one is releasing a claim for money damages," Zimmer said, meaning Subway customers could still sue to recover damages, individually or as a class.
That doesn't seem likely. As plaintiffs noted in an earlier pleading, proving that any class member suffered "out of pocket monetary loss because their particular sandwich was less than the promised 12 inches could have proven to be an obstacle."
Zimmerman said he doesn't pay attention to critics who called the suits frivolous.
"As a result of this litigation, Subway enacted some significant quality-control measures," he said.


Bethany Appleby, attorney for Subway, said the company "wants its customers to be happy and enjoy their subs."

Short measure. Isn't that why a 'Baker's dozen' came into being?

Norman Bernstein
10-21-2015, 12:12 PM
The size of the size of the bread never bothered me... it was the consistency. Despite being 'baked locally' (from frozen dough, I believe), their bread has the consistency of a marshmallow or cotton ball. I'd pay twice the price for a decent, highly dense, flavorful sub roll... if they offered it.

Canoez
10-21-2015, 12:20 PM
Well, if you're going to sell "foot long" something, shouldn't it be that long?

If you're selling "mile long" hot dogs, would it be reasonable to expect that or is that just hyperbole?

ron ll
10-21-2015, 12:25 PM
Has anyone weighed a Quarter Pounder yet?

Rum_Pirate
10-21-2015, 12:26 PM
Has anyone weighed a Quarter Pounder yet?

I suspect there is a reference somewhere to 'uncooked weight' but who has checked that?

Michael D. Storey
10-21-2015, 02:01 PM
Well, if you're going to sell "foot long" something, shouldn't it be that long?

If you're selling "mile long" hot dogs, would it be reasonable to expect that or is that just hyperbole?I remember a lawsuit when I was a kid over a dealer's sign on a car windshield that said '3500 bananas'
Course, is this a foot, or is it like 'my foot isn't long enough to fit those shoes'?
I personally hate lawsuits like this. By the pic, the sandwich is within a 4% margin of error, wouldn't you reckon, less that 1/2 inch? This is screwing with the Court. Its like that woman in NYC who told the cops on 911 that there was a bomb, when the only prob was her lost purse, saying that she figured they'd show up quicker that way.
Jared notwithstanding, I think that they produce a consistent product widely available that has good ingredients. Why not screw with an insurance company instead?

Canoez
10-21-2015, 02:17 PM
I remember a lawsuit when I was a kid over a dealer's sign on a car windshield that said '3500 bananas'
Course, is this a foot, or is it like 'my foot isn't long enough to fit those shoes'?
I personally hate lawsuits like this. By the pic, the sandwich is within a 4% margin of error, wouldn't you reckon, less that 1/2 inch? This is screwing with the Court. Its like that woman in NYC who told the cops on 911 that there was a bomb, when the only prob was her lost purse, saying that she figured they'd show up quicker that way.
Jared notwithstanding, I think that they produce a consistent product widely available that has good ingredients. Why not screw with an insurance company instead?

When you're talking about a "foot long", that's a common and easily confirmed measurement. IIRC, this isn't the first time they've been taken to court for the same thing.

So, let's say you're buying lumber and your 8' 2x4 is actually only 7'-10" long? Same idea. Some places believe that fair measurements are important :D:

http://www.camra-forth-valley.co.uk/images/full%20pint.jpg

skuthorp
10-21-2015, 02:22 PM
Correct weights and measures are important, but a salad roll? Excuse me if I laugh hysterically.

Tom Wilkinson
10-21-2015, 02:32 PM
When you're talking about a "foot long", that's a common and easily confirmed measurement. IIRC, this isn't the first time they've been taken to court for the same thing.

So, let's say you're buying lumber and your 8' 2x4 is actually only 7'-10" long? Same idea. Some places believe that fair measurements are important :D:

http://www.camra-forth-valley.co.uk/images/full%20pint.jpg

That same 2X4 is only 1 1/2 X 3 1/2, but you didn't mention that.
And it has been brought to a lawsuit (in CA i believe).

skuthorp
10-21-2015, 02:34 PM
Why haven't the put "E&OE" on the bottom of the invoice?:d

Canoez
10-21-2015, 02:35 PM
That same 2X4 is only 1 1/2 X 3 1/2, but you didn't mention that.
And it has been brought to a lawsuit (in CA i believe).

After planing, only rough cut 2x4's are actually "2x4" - but that is a standard.

Which was brought to a lawsuit in CA? The 2x4 or the sandwich?

Canoez
10-21-2015, 02:36 PM
That same 2X4 is only 1 1/2 X 3 1/2, but you didn't mention that.
And it has been brought to a lawsuit (in CA i believe).

Oh, and 4/4 S4S Western Red Cedar that is neither (23/32", IIRC and only "Surfaced" on 3 sides, not 4...) Don't get me started.

Tom Wilkinson
10-21-2015, 02:38 PM
After planing, only rough cut 2x4's are actually "2x4" - but that is a standard.

Which was brought to a lawsuit in CA? The 2x4 or the sandwich?
The 2 x 4
http://www.hbsdealer.com/article/lowes-ordered-pay-2x4-settlement

Garret
10-21-2015, 02:43 PM
After planing, only rough cut 2x4's are actually "2x4" - but that is a standard.

Which was brought to a lawsuit in CA? The 2x4 or the sandwich?

I haven't seen a rough 2x4 that actually measured 2" by 4" in many years. They seem to be 1 3/4" x 3 3/4". "It'll plane down to 1 1/2x 3 1/2!".

ron ll
10-21-2015, 02:43 PM
2 x 4 is same as a quarter pounder. Before cooking.

BTW, when I got started in business, a 2 x 4 was 1-5/8" x 3-5/8".

skuthorp
10-21-2015, 02:45 PM
Is comparing a 4''x2" and a bread roll saying something about the consistency of the roll?:ycool:

BETTY-B
10-21-2015, 02:49 PM
All the pints poured around her are only 14oz. Been arguing for those extra 2oz. for twenty years. Nothing but blank, non-understanding, stares back. That's a lot of missed beer my friends.

Phillip Allen
10-21-2015, 02:52 PM
some people just don't have enough to worry about

Canoez
10-21-2015, 02:56 PM
some people just don't have enough to worry about

How'd you feel if every gallon of gas or oil you bought was 120 ounces?

skuthorp
10-21-2015, 03:01 PM
False equivalency. (Though commercially made breads here have a legally mandated range of weights but not what are termed 'craft breads'.

Canoez
10-21-2015, 03:03 PM
It's even worse if you compare it to an Imperial Pint, which is 20% larger than a 16oz American Pint.

Sad. Much prefer my pints in the UK for that reason.

oznabrag
10-21-2015, 03:16 PM
The 2 x 4
http://www.hbsdealer.com/article/lowes-ordered-pay-2x4-settlement

I know of an Architect who did an extensive remodel OF HIS OWN HOME that involved adding a second floor.

He made all the load calculations using nominal dimensions and a table for the strength of yellow pine.

He was simply thunderstruck when the framing inspector red-tagged the heck out of his project.

Thunderstruck! :ycool:

Phillip Allen
10-21-2015, 03:43 PM
How'd you feel if every gallon of gas or oil you bought was 120 ounces?

I'd shop somewhere else

Canoez
10-21-2015, 03:56 PM
I'd shop somewhere else

But without fair weights and measures inspections - how would you know to shop elsewhere?

robm
10-21-2015, 04:17 PM
Ever notice the beer in the big steins in Oktoberfest photos? Usually, they are short of the line. Traveling in Germany many years ago, I found I usually got short measure, and so did everyone else around me. The beer was cheap, and no one else complained, so I didn't either. But in England, Ireland and Scotland, the beer always came to the line.

And trying to incorporate modern nominal 2x4's into an old house can be pain. Shims everywhere.

LeeG
10-21-2015, 04:28 PM
All the pints poured around her are only 14oz. Been arguing for those extra 2oz. for twenty years. Nothing but blank, non-understanding, stares back. That's a lot of missed beer my friends.

Ok now that is a valid complaint

Phillip Allen
10-21-2015, 04:44 PM
But without fair weights and measures inspections - how would you know to shop elsewhere?

we've diveated from the OP... from a sandwich to a finite measurement of fluid... it's a SANDWICH fer gosh sakes!

robm
10-21-2015, 04:45 PM
Measurements Canada have ruled that if a pint of beer is advertised, it has to be 20 imperial ounces, 568 ml. So now, the barmaids call it a "sleeve", and it is 14 ounces. I have seen pints being sold, but it looks like they really don't understand this imperial/US customary thing, because they are often 20 US ounces, 591 ml. This I don't mind...

Michael D. Storey
10-22-2015, 07:52 AM
So, let's say you're buying lumber and your 8' 2x4 is actually only 7'-10" long? Same idea. :D:

http://www.camra-forth-valley.co.uk/images/full%20pint.jpg No it's not the same thing. It's food, not a structural element whose length helps determine the size and strength of a structure. Are all entres the same size? Are you aware that it is legal to buy and use in your bar pint glasses that only hold 14 oz., when filled to the very brim?
Food portions, those that we eat, can easily vary in size and weight, to say nothing of size, and still perform the same function.
As far as bread is concerned, go to any store that sells french or italian bread and you will find discernable, noticeable variations in length and girth. It is the nature of baking bread outside of a pan.
I would also suggest that if you are building with that 2 x 4, store bought, new, measure it. Do not assume that just because the label sez 8 feet, it is indeed 96 inches within a 1/16 of an inch.

S.V. Airlie
10-22-2015, 07:57 AM
Has anyone weighed a Quarter Pounder yet?Before or after it's cooked?:) Personally, I really don't put measuring the size of a hot dog, the length of the bread roll etc. that important, it's what's in them and how much..

Rum_Pirate
10-22-2015, 08:05 AM
we've diveated from the OP... from a sandwich to a finite measurement of fluid... it's a SANDWICH fer gosh sakes!
Fair comment, yes it is ONLY a sandwich. tThat would be fine if you were making it at home yourself.

However, if you sell a 12" sandwich but only give (say) an 11" sandwich you save 8.33% of your materials, plus you still get the extra profit on that 8.33%.

You might say that 8.33% is not a lot, but when compared to the percentage of your profit in that item is is significant.

Canoez
10-22-2015, 08:08 AM
No it's not the same thing. It's food, not a structural element whose length helps determine the size and strength of a structure. Are all entres the same size? Are you aware that it is legal to buy and use in your bar pint glasses that only hold 14 oz., when filled to the very brim?
Food portions, those that we eat, can easily vary in size and weight, to say nothing of size, and still perform the same function.
As far as bread is concerned, go to any store that sells french or italian bread and you will find discernable, noticeable variations in length and girth. It is the nature of baking bread outside of a pan.
I would also suggest that if you are building with that 2 x 4, store bought, new, measure it. Do not assume that just because the label sez 8 feet, it is indeed 96 inches within a 1/16 of an inch.

Actually, it is the same thing. If you are selling it as "foot long" it should be a foot long. It is legal to use "bar pint" glasses that are 14 ounces, but you shouldn't call it a "pint", because it isn't a pint - that's called false advertising, and it isn't legal.

The entree comparison is ridiculous, mostly because a restaurant rarely is selling an item by size with the notable exception of things like steaks, lobsters and burgers. However, if you're selling something by it's size, weight or other descriptive qualifier, that's what the customer should get. However, if you go to a restaurant and order what is described on the menu as crab and get "crab sticks" (Pollock) instead, you've been ripped off and that's wrong.

Bread you buy in the supermarket isn't sold by size, it's sold by weight or by "each".

Just like going to the gas pump to buy a gallon of gas. It had better be a gallon.

Paul Pless
10-22-2015, 08:17 AM
When you're talking about a "foot long", that's a common and easily confirmed measurement. IIRC, this isn't the first time they've been taken to court for the same thing.

So, let's say you're buying lumber and your 8' 2x4 is actually only 7'-10" long? Same idea. Some places believe that fair measurements are important :D:

Don't you mean an 8' long by 3.5"x1.5" board? :D

Phillip Allen
10-22-2015, 08:22 AM
Fair comment, yes it is ONLY a sandwich. tThat would be fine if you were making it at home yourself.

However, if you sell a 12" sandwich but only give (say) an 11" sandwich you save 8.33% of your materials, plus you still get the extra profit on that 8.33%.

You might say that 8.33% is not a lot, but when compared to the percentage of your profit in that item is is significant.

around here a whopper refers to a big fish... but at burger king...

Canoez
10-22-2015, 08:23 AM
Don't you mean an 8' long by 3.5"x1.5" board? :D

;) .

Katherine
10-22-2015, 08:24 AM
A bunch of men trying to accurately measure 12 inches is laughable.:D

Canoez
10-22-2015, 08:34 AM
A bunch of men trying to accurately measure 12 inches is laughable.:D

I was in a design meeting about a product (just happened to be a roomful of men...) and the company president made a gesture to indicate a length between his thumb and forefinger ("About 6 inches long.") that fell WAY short of the actual dimension. Pretty much everyone in the room fell silent, but with smirks on everyone's faces until the manufacturing manager (the president's brother) broke the silence. "Ah, so that's what you tell Amy." (president's wife). Everyone in the room broke up laughing - even the president. Don't think there was a dry eye in the room we were laughing so hard.

ron ll
10-22-2015, 11:59 AM
Don't you mean an 8' long by 3.5"x1.5" board? :D

As long as we're picking nits, I was taught that if you include the inch marks (") it is net. If you don't, it is nominal. Hence Canoez 8' 2x4 is correct. :)
(Assuming of course that what I was taught is correct.)

Phillip Allen
10-22-2015, 12:01 PM
As long as we're picking nits, I was taught that if you include the inch marks (") it is net. If you don't, it is nominal. Hence Canoez 8' 2x4 is correct. :)

exceptional-ism again :)

people use our court system as an informal lottery

Phillip Allen
10-22-2015, 12:03 PM
A bunch of men trying to accurately measure 12 inches is laughable.:D

36 barley corns

.75 cubits

The Bigfella
10-22-2015, 09:14 PM
A bunch of men trying to accurately measure 12 inches is laughable.:D

Yeah, OK, it's a foot... but I don't use it as a rule

CWSmith
10-22-2015, 09:17 PM
A bunch of men trying to accurately measure 12 inches is laughable.:D

Is it a bad time to say I always thought their subs were over-sized? :)

Breakaway
10-22-2015, 09:57 PM
Outboard engine horsepower can vary by up to ten percent ( industry convention not a regulation)

Kevin

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Nicholas Carey
10-22-2015, 10:42 PM
All the pints poured around her are only 14oz. Been arguing for those extra 2oz. for twenty years. Nothing but blank, non-understanding, stares back. That's a lot of missed beer my friends.


Meet me at the Hilltop Alehouse on Queen Anne sometime. I'll stand you to an honest Imperial Pint (20 imperial ounces, c. 19.2 US ounces) of bitter.

BETTY-B
10-23-2015, 01:31 AM
Meet me at the Hilltop Alehouse on Queen Anne sometime. I'll stand you to an honest Imperial Pint (20 imperial ounces, c. 19.2 US ounces) of bitter.

Thank you, Nicholas. I'd like that.

I see they are in cahoots with 74th St. Ale House. I have done many a lunch there. Good stuff.