moveable internal lead ballast

[Doug Tutty]

The 37' Stevens Ketch I'm considering buying has lead ingots in the bilge under the cabin sole. They are about 12" long and seem to rest on the floor timbers, not the planks. They're about 3 layers deep about 6' along the keel forward of the engine compartment. The boat is Mahogany on oak frames, copper fastened. I don't know what the keel bolts are yet, 'cause I can't get at them with all that ballast in the way.

They're not restrained by anything and the sole is drop-in. I'm concerned that as I learn to sail, or in bad weather, of them shifting or falling out in a knock-down.

1: What is the best way to restrain them?

2: What is the best material to coat them in re keeping the bilge clean? Normal Alkyd gloss? Also, while I'm at it, what should the bilge be painted with?

3: We'll be pulling the atomic IV engine and not repowering for now, so I figure we need some moveable ballast, but do we need it all internal? Can it be added externally somehow or does that stress the structure?

[Ian McColgin]

It sounds like a good start. Internal ballast should not rest on the hull. If you've got an arrangement that lands on the frames, excellent.

I had quite a bit of lead ballast in Goblin, which I ws able to save after she was wrecked and put into Grana, replacing some nasty iron ballast. Those bars had been cast to fit Goblin. In Goblin, they were laid on either side of the centerboard trunk in such a way as there was no danger of shifting unless Goblin went to about 80 degrees. Given how I salied her and given her low freeboard, even getting past 45 degrees was unlikely. I did not restrain the ballast pigs in any way except the carefull lay down.

They did not fit Grana as well. Rather than recasting them, I built an internal ceiling to lay them on. To date I've relied on how I laid them to prevent shifting, which has been good in very rough conditions at heels up to 45 degrees.

When I do a rebuild on Grana, I will be developing a way to have that ballast better secured as I intend going off-shore.

The best restraint I know is wedged timbers under the floors. The wedges should be attackable from both fore and aft as you may need to knock them loose when tracking down a leak or cleaning the bilges.

I doubt that you need do more than the previous owners have done, doubt the need to hold-down timbers, unless you plan to go off-shore and need to think up side down. But you do need to learn to lay them down correctly to prevent shifting in the odd knock-down to 60 or so degrees.

G'luck

[Doug Tutty]

I took another look at the boat today with Jane. We're almost sure enough to put an offer on it, once we can scrounge the financing. The survery's wife runs a company called "The Surveyor's wife". She initially figured that she would work for sellers sprucing up their boats to sell. However, her husband is known to be so picky that sellers don't hire him, but buyers do. If I help pull the lead, she'll completly clean and disinfect the bilge and we'll leave the lead on the settees so her husband can survey the bilge after we put an offer on.

Is there a flush-mount positive lock for floor boards that would restrain the ballast? With closer inspection, there's 3 layers of lead in the middle, 8' long, tapering to one layer the width of the sole (18" or so). If there was a positive lock (i.e. a quarter-turn catch) at each stringer (24") to secure the 3/4" solid mahogany sole, shouldn't that do the trick?

The marina is right on Lake Ontario, at Bluffer' park. Once I graduate beyond sailing to the pump-out dock (without an engine on a 37' ketch), and leave the marina, in effect, I'm 'off-shore' when out of the wind-shadow of the bluffs. Appparently, winds can be 60 kts spring and fall. There's no wind-break (like a storage shed) at the marina, and I've already seen torn shrink-wrap, apparently from last week when I'm told 60 kts tore through the marina.

On the plus side, dead calm days are very rare, which is good when engineless. And there's a big-boat sailing school right there.

[Lucky Luke]

No need to say much more than what Ian did. Wedge them in, that's all right.
About painting them? no need, but you will like to paint your bilge. Sorry for you and your boats that you are not allowed any more to use red lead paint in the US (good primer that was)!
But, anyway, have the internal ballast moved out before buying the boat. If you buy her, that's one part of the regular maintenance you will have already done, if you don't because you found something wrong, no regret (and you can charge the seller for that then).

[ 10-19-2003, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Lucky Luke ]

[RGM]

This will be a little long winded, but here goes. One way to deal with portable lead ingots, or pigs as they are sometimes called, is to build metal baskets or trays that fit between your floor timbers and/or frames. These baskets have a flange along the top that overlaps and mounts on top of your floors or frames. Additionally, these baskets or trays are constructed so that their bottoms are elevated/suspended at least 1" above the inboard face of your planking for ventilation/drainage. Lag bolt the baskets in place down thru the mounting flange into the boats structural members. Install the pigs, re- cut them to size if need be, take up any gaps between the pigs and the sides of the baskets with hardwood wedges as you stack them in place. Fabricate and install/lag metal straps across the tops of the ingots/pigs to help hold them down. Wedge the retaining straps as necessary to makes things secure.You can build the baskets/trays from bronze, stainless or galvanized steel. Depending on your budget and the type of metal used in your boat. They don't have to be solid construction, they can be made out of bent and welded flat bar. It's a good way to install and secure internal ballast in manageable chunks. Depending on where you install the baskets you can keep critical areas (keelbolts, thru hulls)accessible for inspection/repair. Additionally, by using the basket approach you can get the ballast down low in the boat without choking things off. Catch my drift? Anyway, that's how the US Navy has been doing it for years. Good luck.

[ 10-19-2003, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: RGM ]

[Art Read]

Hmmm... You've gotten the "wheels turning" again over here, Rodger... ;)

[Doug Tutty]

Thanks, keep the ideas flowing, this is great.

On my last look, I noted that the pigs sit directly on the keel (its a good 12" wide) and the floor timbers keep them moving lenthwise. I pulled them out and set them on either side of the floor opening, then washed them one at a time. I'll leave them out for the survey.

I like the basket idea but I need to minimize metal. There's no room to leave the keel bolts accessible.

I'm going down today to keep cleaning and rinsing. Its fun with no bilge pump, using a wet vac :eek: I'll let you know anything else I learn.

Thanks,

Doug.