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Ian McColgin
10-01-2015, 05:19 PM
[IMc - Notice that these bigoted people crowd-sourced the damages and still won't pay.]

http://www.wweek.com/2015/09/29/sweet-cakes-by-melissa-owners-defying-order-to-pay-135000-to-lesbian-couple-they-wouldnt-bake-a-wedding-cake/

Sweet Cakes by Melissa Owners Defying Order to Pay $135,000 to Lesbian Couple Who Wanted a Wedding Cake

Aaron and Melissa Klein have raised $500,000 in crowdfunding.

It looks like Aaron and Melissa Klein, the former proprietors of Gresham bakery Sweetcakes by Melissa, are following the government-defying example of Kim Davis, the Rowan County, Ky., court clerk recently jailed for refusing to marry same-sex couples.

On July 2, the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries ordered the Kleins to pay $135,000 to a lesbian couple, Rachel and Laurel Bowman-Cryer, for whom Aaron Klein refused to bake a wedding cake and then posted their home address online.

The Kleins, records show, have for nearly three months defied BOLI's order to pay.

Their attorney twice requested a stay while the Oregon Court of Appeals considers the Klein's case, asserting payment would lead to "financial ruin."

BOLI Commissioner Brad Avakian rejected those requests—noting that the Kleins raised nearly $500,000 from crowd-funding sites and the money will be held in escrow during appeal.

Avakian issued his final denial on July 27.

More recently, an email chain shows, Jenn Gaddis, the chief prosecutor in BOLI's administrative prosecution unit, communicated with the Kleins' attorneys—Hebert Grey, Tyler Smith and Anna Harmon—about ways the Kleins might satisfy their obligation without putting up cash.

"If we can come to agreement on the terms and conditions of a bond or irrevocable letter of credit," Gaddis wrote to the Kleins' attorneys in an Aug. 6 email, "the agency will stay collection of the emotional distress damages from your client."

On Sept. 8, Herbert Grey responded to Gaddis.

"Our clients do not have a bond or irrevocable letter of credit in place and have no further plans to obtain one," Grey wrote.

On Sept. 16 Gaddis wrote back to Grey and the Klein's other attorneys, seeking immediate payment.

"Please inform the agency of when your clients will tender payment," Gaddis wrote on Sept. 16. "Otherwise we have no other option but to docket the judgement against them. It is unfortunate that they will not seek the bond or irrevocable letter of credit, that you had initially stated they were interested in seeking, when they have clearly raised close to $500,000 with which to pay the damage award."

Docketing the judgement puts BOLI in a position to place a lien on the Kleins' property or attach other assets.

Meanwhile, the Kleins appeared alongside Davis last weekend at the Values Voters Summit in Washington, D.C. It's the second consecutive year they've been featured speakers at the right-wing event.

The Kleins' attorney, Herbert Grey, declined comment.

# # #

BrianW
10-01-2015, 11:48 PM
$135,000 because one baker didn't make them a cake.

This is what's really wrong with society.

Ian McColgin
10-01-2015, 11:53 PM
The Klein's repeated and blatant defiance of all legal remedies drove the penalties up. They had plenty of opportunity to settle for far less but hey chose to engorge the penalty while internet begging pseudo-christian suckers into donating money they don't plan to pay to cover the penalties and legal fees. The Klein's next step is to escalate this into a tour in jail all in the utterly false claim of religion.

Captain Intrepid
10-02-2015, 12:09 AM
$135,000 because one baker didn't make them a cake.

This is what's really wrong with society.

It's in line with awards made in similar cases. If you run a business you must respect the law of the land. If you decide in your role as a business owner to deny people their God given rights, you ought to be prepared to pay through the nose for the privilege of breaking the law.

BrianW
10-02-2015, 01:12 AM
Yes, the God given right to a cake, baked by a certain baker.

It's in all the best books. The Bible, the Torah, the Koran...

Captain Intrepid
10-02-2015, 02:20 AM
Yes, the God given right to a cake, baked by a certain baker.

The right to not be discriminated against. May not be explictly spelled out in the holy books, but from them it's derivable, and certainly still the law of the land.

Ian McColgin
10-02-2015, 07:12 AM
Outside of prison we don't have forced labor yet we have people who choose through retirement, dependency or trust fund living not to earn money by any labor or exchange of services. Each person has the freedom to participate or not in our economy. If you exercise the freedom to participate, you immediately run into limitations to your free participation. You are not free to sell 12 ounces of sugar as a pound. You are not free to cut flour with sanding dust. You are not free to provide medical or legal services if you do not have the relevant credentials. You are not free to be an airline pilot without a rating for the plane.

And you are not free to discriminate in the sale of your services or goods on the basis of race, religion, national origon, sex, or sexual orientation - list varies a little by jurisdiction.

A kosher butcher can, certainly will, refuse to handle certain meats both by species and by how butchered. Can't be forced to sell pork or dog. But the butcher must sell what's offered to any legitimate customer. No matter what Leviticus may say about the sodomite customer.

The Kleins are not about religious freedom. Their "christianity" is not gospel true but is rather a hateful perversion.

Michael D. Storey
10-02-2015, 09:32 AM
Their "christianity" is not gospel true but is rather a hateful perversion.
Remember that scene in The Fixer where the fixer was beaten by the pious with the cross? Like that.

Rum_Pirate
10-02-2015, 11:03 AM
$135,000 because one baker didn't make them a cake.

This is what's really wrong with society.

+ 1

Ian McColgin
10-02-2015, 11:09 AM
But it's a lie to say $135,000 for not making a cake for a couple of gays. It's $135,000 and may go higher for the Klein's refusal to accept lesser penalties. This is not civil disobedience in the sense of taking the penalty. This is a political effort to duck any penalty at all and every time they lose, the stakes grow. As does the exploitation of all the fools who are donating to their crowd sourced fund, which it appears they want to just spend on themselves.

slug
10-02-2015, 11:09 AM
I smell a fishing expedition.

Illl bet that they contacted a lawyer and prepared thier media package before they approached bakeries.

Once they found a baker who took the bait ...gotcha.... They reeled him in.

plenty of LGBt column inches , plus a tasty cash reward .

this is the way special interest groups work.

Rum_Pirate
10-02-2015, 11:09 AM
Outside of prison we don't have forced labor yet we have people who choose through retirement, dependency or trust fund living not to earn money by any labor or exchange of services. Each person has the freedom to participate or not in our economy. If you exercise the freedom to participate, you immediately run into limitations to your free participation. You are not free to sell 12 ounces of sugar as a pound. You are not free to cut flour with sanding dust. You are not free to provide medical or legal services if you do not have the relevant credentials. You are not free to be an airline pilot without a rating for the plane.

And you are not free to discriminate in the sale of your services or goods on the basis of race, religion, national origon, sex, or sexual orientation - list varies a little by jurisdiction.

A kosher butcher can, certainly will, refuse to handle certain meats both by species and by how butchered. Can't be forced to sell pork or dog. But the butcher must sell what's offered to any legitimate customer. No matter what Leviticus may say about the sodomite customer.

The Kleins are not about religious freedom. Their "christianity" is not gospel true but is rather a hateful perversion.

Not sure what the US equivalent case law is to the precedent setting "Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain v Boots Cash Chemists 1952" in the UK.
Can one can advertise goods for sale but does not have to sell in the USA? However I would appreciate it if somebody could clarify what is the actual status on this is in the USA.


. . . Steven was not offering to sell his piano but just inviting people to offer to purchase. The case of Pharmaceutical Society of Great Britain v Boots Cash Chemists 1952 supports that an invitation to treat (ITT) is not an offer. ‘In this case, Boots was selling drugs in a self-service shop. There was a law that prescribed drugs can only be sold when there is a pharmacist. The plaintiff bought the drugs which were put in the open shelves and paid in the cashier under a pharmacist’s supervision. The plaintiff claimed that Boots has broken the law but the plaintiff was not successful because displaying drugs in the shelves was an ITT.’

Katherine
10-02-2015, 11:11 AM
I never saw the point in discriminating against someone who was a legal customer. I'm an equal opportunity capitalist.

Ian McColgin
10-02-2015, 11:17 AM
Rum_Pirate, your example has no relevance to the issue and actually no US parallel that I could find. A prescription drug or controlled poison cannot be purchased without authorization even if the customer was able to take it off the shelf.

More relevantly, a US pharmacist may not refuse to fill a scrip for an HIV cocktail on the basis of some fancy based on a half-baked reading of Leviticus.

There has been some push-pull as to whether a pharmacy owned by Roman Catholics could refuse to carry contraceptives and whether a Roman Catholic pharmacist could refuse to fill a contraceptive scrip that the pharmacy has.

Katherine
10-02-2015, 11:23 AM
Genesys regional medical center here in MI is being sued because they are refusing to let a woman, who already has several children, get her tubes tied during her c-section this month.

Osborne Russell
10-02-2015, 11:59 AM
Genesys regional medical center here in MI is being sued because they are refusing to let a woman, who already has several children, get her tubes tied during her c-section this month.

Sounds like medical malpractice to me.

There's tension between the standards of the profession and your conscience? Good luck in your new career.

Katherine
10-02-2015, 01:16 PM
Sounds like medical malpractice to me.

There's tension between the standards of the profession and your conscience? Good luck in your new career.Catholic hospital.

Ian McColgin
10-02-2015, 02:39 PM
"I smell a fishing expedition.
Illl bet that they contacted a lawyer and prepared thier media package before they approached bakeries.
Once they found a baker who took the bait ...gotcha.... They reeled him in.
plenty of LGBt column inches , plus a tasty cash reward .
this is the way special interest groups work." [#11]

When we look at the video frauds perpetuated by rightwingers against Acorn and now Planned Parenthood, one can see why a rightie in a fact free universe would write this. But at this time in history, it's the righties that are inventing and spreading lies.

Osborne Russell
10-02-2015, 06:19 PM
Catholic hospital.

1. Licensed profession.
2. Tax money.

Michael D. Storey
10-03-2015, 04:24 PM
Genesys regional medical center here in MI is being sued because they are refusing to let a woman, who already has several children, get her tubes tied during her c-section this month.
Or did they refuse to pay for it?

Too Little Time
10-03-2015, 05:54 PM
Genesys regional medical center here in MI is being sued because they are refusing to let a woman, who already has several children, get her tubes tied during her c-section this month.

Every hospital does not need to offer every type of surgery.

There are hospitals that do not respect DNRs or other legal documents.

Captain Intrepid
10-03-2015, 06:13 PM
There are hospitals that do not respect DNRs or other legal documents.

Interesting. I thought under the PSDA hospitals were legally required to respect DNRs. Could you point me towards a source?

Michael D. Storey
10-04-2015, 09:43 AM
I smell a fishing expedition.

Illl bet that they contacted a lawyer and prepared thier media package before they approached bakeries.

Once they found a baker who took the bait ...gotcha.... They reeled him in.

plenty of LGBt column inches , plus a tasty cash reward .

this is the way special interest groups work.

I smell a fishing expedition.

Illl bet that they contacted a lawyer and prepared thier media package before they were approached by a gay couple.

Once they found a gay couple who took the bait ...gotcha.... They reeled him in.

plenty of fundamentalist reactionary column inches.

this is the way special interest groups work.

Katherine
10-05-2015, 09:08 AM
Or did they refuse to pay for it?
They object on religious grounds. She already going to be opened up at the time anyway, so money is not really the factor.