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Dave Fleming
08-20-2003, 01:14 PM
Since I seem to be historizing, re: Enola Gay thread in the 'bilge'.
Here is my version of some power tool history.

Caveat: It's mine and there are probably some inaccuracies in it but I think I got most of it right.

Power Tool History ( short)

Robert Bosch the German conglomerate first bought Stanley Electric Power Tools sometime in the early 1960's and not too long after bought SKIL tools.
Bosch being a German outfit immediately set out to make ALL the power tools meet the rigerous German Health and Safety Standards.
SKIL's much prized model 100 hand held electric power plane was gone almost overnight. It was used just by every boat yard in the US( Pete Cullers book Skiff and Schooners has a shot of a launch under construction and there must be 6 100s scattered about the vessel!) It was later prized by surfboard builders shaping the foam blanks.
We now see a tool which when new sold for about 150 USD fetching way over 600 USD on ebay, if you can spot one. Stanley's fine line of routers and their line of handplaners first developed by RL Carter Electric Tools had already disappeared because of Boschs need to adhere to the German standards.

As I said in an earlier post, my Bosch barrel body saber saw was made in Switzerland and it is my belief that Bosch bought the Swiss outfit that made a very popular jig/saber saw used in the yards in the 1960's also.
DeWalt was a maker of radial arm saws that was first bought by Brunswick, then know as Bruswick, Balk and Collander, IRRC. Brunswick sold DeWalt to Black and Decker when B&D was a top of the line power tool. B&D Super Sawcats were ACES and much prized for Aluminum boat building as were B&D sanders and routers. Some how B&D let the quality sink into the toilet and it got such a bad rep that as a marketing ploy the company decided to drop the B&D name and call the power tools DeWalt since that name was not tarred by the bad reputation of B&D.
Porter Cable is a an old line power tool maker in fact one of the oldest still in business.
They went from single company to part of the Rockwell empire, a result of the buying spree by certain companies that came out of WW II with a load of cash and no place to use it but,gobble up everything in sight.
Remember Ling Temco or Chance Vought, Consolidated Vultee ??
Ling Temco and Chance Vought merged and was then LTV. Consolidated became General Dynamics. Rockwell bought Delta and PC and later sold them off to Pentair, about which I know nothing.
The whole power tool scene is one of flux almost continously. Buying, selling, moving offshore, it boggles the mind keeping up with it all.
Milwaukee as gone through its own series of these gyrations.
Now have you ever heard of THOR, Van Dorn,Gilfillian? Ayup thems is old power tool makers that went by the wayside after WW II. Only one of that era left is Sioux.
The war kept them alive but after the demobilization and reduction in the military, gone with the wind.
Powermatic is owned by JET which was started by a tool importer in Tacoma, WA. since hought out by a Swiss Holding company. Jet owns Powermatic, and several other US tool makers including Performax sanders and, is gradually shifting PM's production and material sourcing to the other side of the Pacific Rim.
General of Canada has started a Chiwan line of tools called General International just to compete in this global economy.
General of Canada is the last true North American maker left. IMOOP, always has been right at the top and is the line I recommend to any who might ask me.

Dave Fleming
08-20-2003, 01:14 PM
Since I seem to be historizing, re: Enola Gay thread in the 'bilge'.
Here is my version of some power tool history.

Caveat: It's mine and there are probably some inaccuracies in it but I think I got most of it right.

Power Tool History ( short)

Robert Bosch the German conglomerate first bought Stanley Electric Power Tools sometime in the early 1960's and not too long after bought SKIL tools.
Bosch being a German outfit immediately set out to make ALL the power tools meet the rigerous German Health and Safety Standards.
SKIL's much prized model 100 hand held electric power plane was gone almost overnight. It was used just by every boat yard in the US( Pete Cullers book Skiff and Schooners has a shot of a launch under construction and there must be 6 100s scattered about the vessel!) It was later prized by surfboard builders shaping the foam blanks.
We now see a tool which when new sold for about 150 USD fetching way over 600 USD on ebay, if you can spot one. Stanley's fine line of routers and their line of handplaners first developed by RL Carter Electric Tools had already disappeared because of Boschs need to adhere to the German standards.

As I said in an earlier post, my Bosch barrel body saber saw was made in Switzerland and it is my belief that Bosch bought the Swiss outfit that made a very popular jig/saber saw used in the yards in the 1960's also.
DeWalt was a maker of radial arm saws that was first bought by Brunswick, then know as Bruswick, Balk and Collander, IRRC. Brunswick sold DeWalt to Black and Decker when B&D was a top of the line power tool. B&D Super Sawcats were ACES and much prized for Aluminum boat building as were B&D sanders and routers. Some how B&D let the quality sink into the toilet and it got such a bad rep that as a marketing ploy the company decided to drop the B&D name and call the power tools DeWalt since that name was not tarred by the bad reputation of B&D.
Porter Cable is a an old line power tool maker in fact one of the oldest still in business.
They went from single company to part of the Rockwell empire, a result of the buying spree by certain companies that came out of WW II with a load of cash and no place to use it but,gobble up everything in sight.
Remember Ling Temco or Chance Vought, Consolidated Vultee ??
Ling Temco and Chance Vought merged and was then LTV. Consolidated became General Dynamics. Rockwell bought Delta and PC and later sold them off to Pentair, about which I know nothing.
The whole power tool scene is one of flux almost continously. Buying, selling, moving offshore, it boggles the mind keeping up with it all.
Milwaukee as gone through its own series of these gyrations.
Now have you ever heard of THOR, Van Dorn,Gilfillian? Ayup thems is old power tool makers that went by the wayside after WW II. Only one of that era left is Sioux.
The war kept them alive but after the demobilization and reduction in the military, gone with the wind.
Powermatic is owned by JET which was started by a tool importer in Tacoma, WA. since hought out by a Swiss Holding company. Jet owns Powermatic, and several other US tool makers including Performax sanders and, is gradually shifting PM's production and material sourcing to the other side of the Pacific Rim.
General of Canada has started a Chiwan line of tools called General International just to compete in this global economy.
General of Canada is the last true North American maker left. IMOOP, always has been right at the top and is the line I recommend to any who might ask me.

Dave Fleming
08-20-2003, 01:14 PM
Since I seem to be historizing, re: Enola Gay thread in the 'bilge'.
Here is my version of some power tool history.

Caveat: It's mine and there are probably some inaccuracies in it but I think I got most of it right.

Power Tool History ( short)

Robert Bosch the German conglomerate first bought Stanley Electric Power Tools sometime in the early 1960's and not too long after bought SKIL tools.
Bosch being a German outfit immediately set out to make ALL the power tools meet the rigerous German Health and Safety Standards.
SKIL's much prized model 100 hand held electric power plane was gone almost overnight. It was used just by every boat yard in the US( Pete Cullers book Skiff and Schooners has a shot of a launch under construction and there must be 6 100s scattered about the vessel!) It was later prized by surfboard builders shaping the foam blanks.
We now see a tool which when new sold for about 150 USD fetching way over 600 USD on ebay, if you can spot one. Stanley's fine line of routers and their line of handplaners first developed by RL Carter Electric Tools had already disappeared because of Boschs need to adhere to the German standards.

As I said in an earlier post, my Bosch barrel body saber saw was made in Switzerland and it is my belief that Bosch bought the Swiss outfit that made a very popular jig/saber saw used in the yards in the 1960's also.
DeWalt was a maker of radial arm saws that was first bought by Brunswick, then know as Bruswick, Balk and Collander, IRRC. Brunswick sold DeWalt to Black and Decker when B&D was a top of the line power tool. B&D Super Sawcats were ACES and much prized for Aluminum boat building as were B&D sanders and routers. Some how B&D let the quality sink into the toilet and it got such a bad rep that as a marketing ploy the company decided to drop the B&D name and call the power tools DeWalt since that name was not tarred by the bad reputation of B&D.
Porter Cable is a an old line power tool maker in fact one of the oldest still in business.
They went from single company to part of the Rockwell empire, a result of the buying spree by certain companies that came out of WW II with a load of cash and no place to use it but,gobble up everything in sight.
Remember Ling Temco or Chance Vought, Consolidated Vultee ??
Ling Temco and Chance Vought merged and was then LTV. Consolidated became General Dynamics. Rockwell bought Delta and PC and later sold them off to Pentair, about which I know nothing.
The whole power tool scene is one of flux almost continously. Buying, selling, moving offshore, it boggles the mind keeping up with it all.
Milwaukee as gone through its own series of these gyrations.
Now have you ever heard of THOR, Van Dorn,Gilfillian? Ayup thems is old power tool makers that went by the wayside after WW II. Only one of that era left is Sioux.
The war kept them alive but after the demobilization and reduction in the military, gone with the wind.
Powermatic is owned by JET which was started by a tool importer in Tacoma, WA. since hought out by a Swiss Holding company. Jet owns Powermatic, and several other US tool makers including Performax sanders and, is gradually shifting PM's production and material sourcing to the other side of the Pacific Rim.
General of Canada has started a Chiwan line of tools called General International just to compete in this global economy.
General of Canada is the last true North American maker left. IMOOP, always has been right at the top and is the line I recommend to any who might ask me.

Jim Budde
08-20-2003, 01:47 PM
whew!!. After reading your history of power tools I feel like I just got off a merry go round. That was fun .. thanks

Jim Budde
08-20-2003, 01:47 PM
whew!!. After reading your history of power tools I feel like I just got off a merry go round. That was fun .. thanks

Jim Budde
08-20-2003, 01:47 PM
whew!!. After reading your history of power tools I feel like I just got off a merry go round. That was fun .. thanks

Paul Scheuer
08-20-2003, 06:27 PM
Imagine what the ride was like for someone on the inside. It's gotten to be more the norm. My own five company names for the same wastebasket, is not that unusual.

Paul Scheuer
08-20-2003, 06:27 PM
Imagine what the ride was like for someone on the inside. It's gotten to be more the norm. My own five company names for the same wastebasket, is not that unusual.

Paul Scheuer
08-20-2003, 06:27 PM
Imagine what the ride was like for someone on the inside. It's gotten to be more the norm. My own five company names for the same wastebasket, is not that unusual.

Bob Smalser
08-20-2003, 08:29 PM
Thanks, Dave - didn't know any of that.

Not that it matters much in my case. I was drafted and overseas when my boatbuilder Uncle and mentor died - couldn't get back to the funeral - sister saved the bulk of the hand tools for me, but we couldn't afford the movement and storage of the power tools - heavy, ornate old Victorian line-shaft machines converted to 220v - wish I had that monstrous old band saw today.

So I went from the 19th Century to a few commercial shops with big '50's-vintage 3ph Delta and Powermatic straight to the shop I'm equipping now and skipped all that.

Set up my first Grizzly jointer today - not at all bad for the money - tables pretty flat on my dial indicator - gibs and joints nice and smooth - gotta fuss some more with the pulley alignment tomorrow.

Bob Smalser
08-20-2003, 08:29 PM
Thanks, Dave - didn't know any of that.

Not that it matters much in my case. I was drafted and overseas when my boatbuilder Uncle and mentor died - couldn't get back to the funeral - sister saved the bulk of the hand tools for me, but we couldn't afford the movement and storage of the power tools - heavy, ornate old Victorian line-shaft machines converted to 220v - wish I had that monstrous old band saw today.

So I went from the 19th Century to a few commercial shops with big '50's-vintage 3ph Delta and Powermatic straight to the shop I'm equipping now and skipped all that.

Set up my first Grizzly jointer today - not at all bad for the money - tables pretty flat on my dial indicator - gibs and joints nice and smooth - gotta fuss some more with the pulley alignment tomorrow.

Bob Smalser
08-20-2003, 08:29 PM
Thanks, Dave - didn't know any of that.

Not that it matters much in my case. I was drafted and overseas when my boatbuilder Uncle and mentor died - couldn't get back to the funeral - sister saved the bulk of the hand tools for me, but we couldn't afford the movement and storage of the power tools - heavy, ornate old Victorian line-shaft machines converted to 220v - wish I had that monstrous old band saw today.

So I went from the 19th Century to a few commercial shops with big '50's-vintage 3ph Delta and Powermatic straight to the shop I'm equipping now and skipped all that.

Set up my first Grizzly jointer today - not at all bad for the money - tables pretty flat on my dial indicator - gibs and joints nice and smooth - gotta fuss some more with the pulley alignment tomorrow.

RGM
08-20-2003, 08:37 PM
Dave, that was very good! We've got some "Thor" power tools where I'm at. One of them is a huge drill motor referred to as the "Norwegian Nut Buster". Ya gotta know when to left go of the handles. We don't use them much, they are seriously frowned upon by the OSHA inspector. We keep them around and polished up just to keep the inspectors nervous. Love those Skil 100's, got a number of those laying around. One of them is ground as a back-out plane. Does a fine job on the big planks.

RGM
08-20-2003, 08:37 PM
Dave, that was very good! We've got some "Thor" power tools where I'm at. One of them is a huge drill motor referred to as the "Norwegian Nut Buster". Ya gotta know when to left go of the handles. We don't use them much, they are seriously frowned upon by the OSHA inspector. We keep them around and polished up just to keep the inspectors nervous. Love those Skil 100's, got a number of those laying around. One of them is ground as a back-out plane. Does a fine job on the big planks.

RGM
08-20-2003, 08:37 PM
Dave, that was very good! We've got some "Thor" power tools where I'm at. One of them is a huge drill motor referred to as the "Norwegian Nut Buster". Ya gotta know when to left go of the handles. We don't use them much, they are seriously frowned upon by the OSHA inspector. We keep them around and polished up just to keep the inspectors nervous. Love those Skil 100's, got a number of those laying around. One of them is ground as a back-out plane. Does a fine job on the big planks.

Dave Fleming
08-20-2003, 09:06 PM
One of them is a huge drill Hey Roger good to hear from you!!!!!!

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if LUDD didn't have some hanging around.

Andersen and Christofani had Van Dorn and Thor air tools by the barrel full left over from WW II work the barrels actually 55 gal drums were filled with oil to preserve the tools. One huge 1 inch chuck Thor was used as the motive power to change the bevel on the 42 inch tilting frame Bandsoar. And another was pulled out when the boiler broke down at the time of putting a boat back in the water on the Marine Railway. Just started the compressor, a big LeRoi remember that name anybody, and hooked the monster to the drive shaft of the winch and off she went.

SWIMPAL says Hi.....

Dave Fleming
08-20-2003, 09:06 PM
One of them is a huge drill Hey Roger good to hear from you!!!!!!

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if LUDD didn't have some hanging around.

Andersen and Christofani had Van Dorn and Thor air tools by the barrel full left over from WW II work the barrels actually 55 gal drums were filled with oil to preserve the tools. One huge 1 inch chuck Thor was used as the motive power to change the bevel on the 42 inch tilting frame Bandsoar. And another was pulled out when the boiler broke down at the time of putting a boat back in the water on the Marine Railway. Just started the compressor, a big LeRoi remember that name anybody, and hooked the monster to the drive shaft of the winch and off she went.

SWIMPAL says Hi.....

Dave Fleming
08-20-2003, 09:06 PM
One of them is a huge drill Hey Roger good to hear from you!!!!!!

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if LUDD didn't have some hanging around.

Andersen and Christofani had Van Dorn and Thor air tools by the barrel full left over from WW II work the barrels actually 55 gal drums were filled with oil to preserve the tools. One huge 1 inch chuck Thor was used as the motive power to change the bevel on the 42 inch tilting frame Bandsoar. And another was pulled out when the boiler broke down at the time of putting a boat back in the water on the Marine Railway. Just started the compressor, a big LeRoi remember that name anybody, and hooked the monster to the drive shaft of the winch and off she went.

SWIMPAL says Hi.....

Ed Harrow
08-20-2003, 09:09 PM
Yup. The MBA types get in to these companies and realize where the money is, and it's not in expensive tools sold to a knowing minority, it's cheap junk sold to the ignorant majority. DAMHIKT

Big Bertha, made back when B&D really stood for something ;)

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/extension-adapter.JPG

Ed Harrow
08-20-2003, 09:09 PM
Yup. The MBA types get in to these companies and realize where the money is, and it's not in expensive tools sold to a knowing minority, it's cheap junk sold to the ignorant majority. DAMHIKT

Big Bertha, made back when B&D really stood for something ;)

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/extension-adapter.JPG

Ed Harrow
08-20-2003, 09:09 PM
Yup. The MBA types get in to these companies and realize where the money is, and it's not in expensive tools sold to a knowing minority, it's cheap junk sold to the ignorant majority. DAMHIKT

Big Bertha, made back when B&D really stood for something ;)

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/extension-adapter.JPG

cs
08-21-2003, 07:10 AM
Great post Dave.

Bob, I'm glad to see we got another Grizzly person here. I was starting to get lonely. ;)

Keep us informed of what you think about it. I got their table saw and just love it.

Chad

cs
08-21-2003, 07:10 AM
Great post Dave.

Bob, I'm glad to see we got another Grizzly person here. I was starting to get lonely. ;)

Keep us informed of what you think about it. I got their table saw and just love it.

Chad

cs
08-21-2003, 07:10 AM
Great post Dave.

Bob, I'm glad to see we got another Grizzly person here. I was starting to get lonely. ;)

Keep us informed of what you think about it. I got their table saw and just love it.

Chad

Stiletto
08-22-2003, 04:05 AM
Ed, I still wince at the memory of my arms being nearly pulled out of their sockets by one of those when I was a youngster. Low speed power plus!

Stiletto
08-22-2003, 04:05 AM
Ed, I still wince at the memory of my arms being nearly pulled out of their sockets by one of those when I was a youngster. Low speed power plus!

Stiletto
08-22-2003, 04:05 AM
Ed, I still wince at the memory of my arms being nearly pulled out of their sockets by one of those when I was a youngster. Low speed power plus!

Bob Smalser
08-22-2003, 09:34 AM
Just finished setting up and tuning the Grizzly 6X48 jointer and their heaviest 12" thickness planer.

Both work as well as any of the old 3ph Delta/Powermatic machines I'm used to. Jointer table very flat - better than expected for the price.

Planer a real pleasant surprise - no chatter, no snipe right out of the box - and 26 fpm feed.

I don't like the motor mount in the jointer - mounts on the sheet metal sawdust chute, but a new belt (the stock one comes twisted in a tight figure 8) or wearing in the stock belt will likely cure the rumble I'm hearing.

Bob Smalser
08-22-2003, 09:34 AM
Just finished setting up and tuning the Grizzly 6X48 jointer and their heaviest 12" thickness planer.

Both work as well as any of the old 3ph Delta/Powermatic machines I'm used to. Jointer table very flat - better than expected for the price.

Planer a real pleasant surprise - no chatter, no snipe right out of the box - and 26 fpm feed.

I don't like the motor mount in the jointer - mounts on the sheet metal sawdust chute, but a new belt (the stock one comes twisted in a tight figure 8) or wearing in the stock belt will likely cure the rumble I'm hearing.

Bob Smalser
08-22-2003, 09:34 AM
Just finished setting up and tuning the Grizzly 6X48 jointer and their heaviest 12" thickness planer.

Both work as well as any of the old 3ph Delta/Powermatic machines I'm used to. Jointer table very flat - better than expected for the price.

Planer a real pleasant surprise - no chatter, no snipe right out of the box - and 26 fpm feed.

I don't like the motor mount in the jointer - mounts on the sheet metal sawdust chute, but a new belt (the stock one comes twisted in a tight figure 8) or wearing in the stock belt will likely cure the rumble I'm hearing.

Ed Harrow
08-22-2003, 08:13 PM
Stilleto, my whole body hurt after punching about six holes with that monster. I swear the socket extension I was using in that picture was twisting from the torque. You can see more pictures of that project on my home page.

Suffice it to say a 3/4" drill motor puts out nearly as much torque as a big-block Chevie motor. (that may not translate down there in NZ, but "gobs" should give you an indication, LOL.

Ed Harrow
08-22-2003, 08:13 PM
Stilleto, my whole body hurt after punching about six holes with that monster. I swear the socket extension I was using in that picture was twisting from the torque. You can see more pictures of that project on my home page.

Suffice it to say a 3/4" drill motor puts out nearly as much torque as a big-block Chevie motor. (that may not translate down there in NZ, but "gobs" should give you an indication, LOL.

Ed Harrow
08-22-2003, 08:13 PM
Stilleto, my whole body hurt after punching about six holes with that monster. I swear the socket extension I was using in that picture was twisting from the torque. You can see more pictures of that project on my home page.

Suffice it to say a 3/4" drill motor puts out nearly as much torque as a big-block Chevie motor. (that may not translate down there in NZ, but "gobs" should give you an indication, LOL.

David N.
08-23-2003, 10:37 AM
LeRoi good name , I have several pre war pc's of eqt. that I would never part with , including 2 old leather belt driven drill press's .
About those old drill motor's , a friend of mine had to drill a hole in a mast head fitting , for a new piece of hard ware he was installing , so all we had was an old thor 1/2" D handle drill motor , and he had to drill this , standing in his bosun chair , one hand around the mast and the other pulling the trigger , several times the bit would catch and almost twist him out of the chair , oh to be young again !! .
Sometimes , I have to shake my head at what tools people buy , it is as if only the color of the tool mfg counts , every company seems to make one or two great tools and the rest are so-so . Case in point B&D industrial line , I have a 8ga. nibbler that I have never seen any one else make , at over a $1000 a pop it is not a very common tool , and for drilling holes it is hard to beat Milwaulke's ( sp ) mag hole shooter system's ( not a drill motor , instead a heavy duty shop tool for steel , which I have heard is to be no more ) I belive they go up to 2" .
Then again I have seen some beautiful work done with these brightly colored tools , so it also the craftsman , and as we used to say in the day's of muscle cars ," ya run what ya brung " .

David N.
08-23-2003, 10:37 AM
LeRoi good name , I have several pre war pc's of eqt. that I would never part with , including 2 old leather belt driven drill press's .
About those old drill motor's , a friend of mine had to drill a hole in a mast head fitting , for a new piece of hard ware he was installing , so all we had was an old thor 1/2" D handle drill motor , and he had to drill this , standing in his bosun chair , one hand around the mast and the other pulling the trigger , several times the bit would catch and almost twist him out of the chair , oh to be young again !! .
Sometimes , I have to shake my head at what tools people buy , it is as if only the color of the tool mfg counts , every company seems to make one or two great tools and the rest are so-so . Case in point B&D industrial line , I have a 8ga. nibbler that I have never seen any one else make , at over a $1000 a pop it is not a very common tool , and for drilling holes it is hard to beat Milwaulke's ( sp ) mag hole shooter system's ( not a drill motor , instead a heavy duty shop tool for steel , which I have heard is to be no more ) I belive they go up to 2" .
Then again I have seen some beautiful work done with these brightly colored tools , so it also the craftsman , and as we used to say in the day's of muscle cars ," ya run what ya brung " .

David N.
08-23-2003, 10:37 AM
LeRoi good name , I have several pre war pc's of eqt. that I would never part with , including 2 old leather belt driven drill press's .
About those old drill motor's , a friend of mine had to drill a hole in a mast head fitting , for a new piece of hard ware he was installing , so all we had was an old thor 1/2" D handle drill motor , and he had to drill this , standing in his bosun chair , one hand around the mast and the other pulling the trigger , several times the bit would catch and almost twist him out of the chair , oh to be young again !! .
Sometimes , I have to shake my head at what tools people buy , it is as if only the color of the tool mfg counts , every company seems to make one or two great tools and the rest are so-so . Case in point B&D industrial line , I have a 8ga. nibbler that I have never seen any one else make , at over a $1000 a pop it is not a very common tool , and for drilling holes it is hard to beat Milwaulke's ( sp ) mag hole shooter system's ( not a drill motor , instead a heavy duty shop tool for steel , which I have heard is to be no more ) I belive they go up to 2" .
Then again I have seen some beautiful work done with these brightly colored tools , so it also the craftsman , and as we used to say in the day's of muscle cars ," ya run what ya brung " .

David N.
08-23-2003, 10:42 AM
P/S

Love the old Poter-Cable / Rockwell , sprial planner , none other like it for smoothness of cut .

David N.
08-23-2003, 10:42 AM
P/S

Love the old Poter-Cable / Rockwell , sprial planner , none other like it for smoothness of cut .

David N.
08-23-2003, 10:42 AM
P/S

Love the old Poter-Cable / Rockwell , sprial planner , none other like it for smoothness of cut .

Dave Fleming
08-23-2003, 11:55 AM
David N, the PC 653 nice tool I have ( 2 ) of them.( Drive by gloat )
Did have three until a Forumite begged and pleaded with me to sell him one for his restoration project.
Nah, not true, he didn't plead but very nicely asked if one was for sale.

The PC 653 is on the heavy side vs the Skil 100 and is ACES for bench work or on heavy timbers but the Skil 100 takes the prize for handiness when working in other situations.

And the Skil was always the less expensive tool to buy but it can eat belts 3 times a day if not tuned right.

As Ed Harrow has found out that unless the blades on the Skil 100 are good and sharp it will bounce and chatter on a piece of really hard wood whereas it has been my experience the PC 653 will bulldoze ahead and leave a lousy finish so either way sharp blades in the Skil 100 or a sharp cutterhead in the PC 653 are important.

Dave Fleming
08-23-2003, 11:55 AM
David N, the PC 653 nice tool I have ( 2 ) of them.( Drive by gloat )
Did have three until a Forumite begged and pleaded with me to sell him one for his restoration project.
Nah, not true, he didn't plead but very nicely asked if one was for sale.

The PC 653 is on the heavy side vs the Skil 100 and is ACES for bench work or on heavy timbers but the Skil 100 takes the prize for handiness when working in other situations.

And the Skil was always the less expensive tool to buy but it can eat belts 3 times a day if not tuned right.

As Ed Harrow has found out that unless the blades on the Skil 100 are good and sharp it will bounce and chatter on a piece of really hard wood whereas it has been my experience the PC 653 will bulldoze ahead and leave a lousy finish so either way sharp blades in the Skil 100 or a sharp cutterhead in the PC 653 are important.

Dave Fleming
08-23-2003, 11:55 AM
David N, the PC 653 nice tool I have ( 2 ) of them.( Drive by gloat )
Did have three until a Forumite begged and pleaded with me to sell him one for his restoration project.
Nah, not true, he didn't plead but very nicely asked if one was for sale.

The PC 653 is on the heavy side vs the Skil 100 and is ACES for bench work or on heavy timbers but the Skil 100 takes the prize for handiness when working in other situations.

And the Skil was always the less expensive tool to buy but it can eat belts 3 times a day if not tuned right.

As Ed Harrow has found out that unless the blades on the Skil 100 are good and sharp it will bounce and chatter on a piece of really hard wood whereas it has been my experience the PC 653 will bulldoze ahead and leave a lousy finish so either way sharp blades in the Skil 100 or a sharp cutterhead in the PC 653 are important.

John Blazy
09-05-2003, 09:16 AM
You gotta post a pic of a Skil 100 Dave. Must be indespensible. You ever sharpen those with the knives still in? I have a cheapo hand planer that gets dull quick, so I mount it in my bench vise, wedge the cutterhead, and use a 4" hand grinder to hollow grind the knives, then follow with my small diamond hone. After a few times I have to raise the knives, but this trick is a real time saver.

Good info Dave smile.gif
PS My Grizzly Drill press is awesome and true as well is my powerfeeder. My oldest tool was an industrial sized upright shop vac called the "Supersucker" by Toledo Big Suck. Made in the 30's.
I wasn't around when 'reversible' drills were a luxury, but remember grabbing an old "Millers Falls" or Skil and wondering where the reverse button was.
What about 'Millers Falls' Dave?

John Blazy
09-05-2003, 09:16 AM
You gotta post a pic of a Skil 100 Dave. Must be indespensible. You ever sharpen those with the knives still in? I have a cheapo hand planer that gets dull quick, so I mount it in my bench vise, wedge the cutterhead, and use a 4" hand grinder to hollow grind the knives, then follow with my small diamond hone. After a few times I have to raise the knives, but this trick is a real time saver.

Good info Dave smile.gif
PS My Grizzly Drill press is awesome and true as well is my powerfeeder. My oldest tool was an industrial sized upright shop vac called the "Supersucker" by Toledo Big Suck. Made in the 30's.
I wasn't around when 'reversible' drills were a luxury, but remember grabbing an old "Millers Falls" or Skil and wondering where the reverse button was.
What about 'Millers Falls' Dave?

John Blazy
09-05-2003, 09:16 AM
You gotta post a pic of a Skil 100 Dave. Must be indespensible. You ever sharpen those with the knives still in? I have a cheapo hand planer that gets dull quick, so I mount it in my bench vise, wedge the cutterhead, and use a 4" hand grinder to hollow grind the knives, then follow with my small diamond hone. After a few times I have to raise the knives, but this trick is a real time saver.

Good info Dave smile.gif
PS My Grizzly Drill press is awesome and true as well is my powerfeeder. My oldest tool was an industrial sized upright shop vac called the "Supersucker" by Toledo Big Suck. Made in the 30's.
I wasn't around when 'reversible' drills were a luxury, but remember grabbing an old "Millers Falls" or Skil and wondering where the reverse button was.
What about 'Millers Falls' Dave?

Ed Harrow
09-05-2003, 10:43 AM
Just for you, John.

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/after_planing.JPG

Solid as a rock, but hss knives were a joke on this stick of wood.

Ed Harrow
09-05-2003, 10:43 AM
Just for you, John.

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/after_planing.JPG

Solid as a rock, but hss knives were a joke on this stick of wood.

Ed Harrow
09-05-2003, 10:43 AM
Just for you, John.

http://home.fiam.net/eeharrow/after_planing.JPG

Solid as a rock, but hss knives were a joke on this stick of wood.

Dave Fleming
09-05-2003, 10:50 AM
2 Skil 100s on ebay as we speak bids are in the $500 USD range with time left in the auctions. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/pc4f85327e75d88dd66a3fe98622938b4/fb2d5339.jpg

Dave Fleming
09-05-2003, 10:50 AM
2 Skil 100s on ebay as we speak bids are in the $500 USD range with time left in the auctions. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/pc4f85327e75d88dd66a3fe98622938b4/fb2d5339.jpg

Dave Fleming
09-05-2003, 10:50 AM
2 Skil 100s on ebay as we speak bids are in the $500 USD range with time left in the auctions. http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/pc4f85327e75d88dd66a3fe98622938b4/fb2d5339.jpg

Dave Fleming
09-05-2003, 10:57 AM
This is the PC Versa Plane with spiral cutterhead.
I, as I have said previously, missed the Skil but did get 2 of these plus one I had for some time.
A forum member is now owner of one of the 'virgin' ones I had
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p19ad9091d928900edc61dad91d817b55/fb2d5113.jpg

As can be seen the PC is a heavier tool. A plus in some situations and a minus in others.
Overall I would say the Skil would be the better choice for most boatbuilding/shipwright use.

Dave Fleming
09-05-2003, 10:57 AM
This is the PC Versa Plane with spiral cutterhead.
I, as I have said previously, missed the Skil but did get 2 of these plus one I had for some time.
A forum member is now owner of one of the 'virgin' ones I had
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p19ad9091d928900edc61dad91d817b55/fb2d5113.jpg

As can be seen the PC is a heavier tool. A plus in some situations and a minus in others.
Overall I would say the Skil would be the better choice for most boatbuilding/shipwright use.

Dave Fleming
09-05-2003, 10:57 AM
This is the PC Versa Plane with spiral cutterhead.
I, as I have said previously, missed the Skil but did get 2 of these plus one I had for some time.
A forum member is now owner of one of the 'virgin' ones I had
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/p19ad9091d928900edc61dad91d817b55/fb2d5113.jpg

As can be seen the PC is a heavier tool. A plus in some situations and a minus in others.
Overall I would say the Skil would be the better choice for most boatbuilding/shipwright use.

Dave Fleming
09-05-2003, 12:30 PM
What about 'Millers Falls' Dave? Funny thing, IMOOP, about MF, they always seemed to be playing catchup with the other guys.

Made a solid hand tool line especially after acquiring Goodell Pratt. But the power tools were not well thought of in the yards. Hard to find, not able to take the use and abuse that sort of thing.

Craftsman made a line called Craftsman Commercial that was not too shabby. In fact that 50 foot plus schooner I worked on was all fastened with 2, 1/2 inch slow speed, no variable speed in them days, Craftsman Commercial drill motors.
I came in on Saturday mornings and would go over them. Blow out the dust and dirt if they had fallen off the scaffolding, dirt floored building shed, grease the gear case, check the brushes etc..
They did the whole job with just a brush change or two. Oh and, one on off switch.

In a full service yard ie: marine railway, machine shop, paint shop, plus shipwrights air was the preferred method of powering tools. You could work in water without fear of being zapped.
Remember this was looooong before GFI's were a twinkle in the electrical industries eyes.
Air is more flexible, longer lasting tools, easier to service on site.

If I win the Lottery, fat chance, I would have air tools in my shop plus electric.

We had everything air, Skilsaw, drills, sanders, grinders, screw drivers, chain saws,....

Dave Fleming
09-05-2003, 12:30 PM
What about 'Millers Falls' Dave? Funny thing, IMOOP, about MF, they always seemed to be playing catchup with the other guys.

Made a solid hand tool line especially after acquiring Goodell Pratt. But the power tools were not well thought of in the yards. Hard to find, not able to take the use and abuse that sort of thing.

Craftsman made a line called Craftsman Commercial that was not too shabby. In fact that 50 foot plus schooner I worked on was all fastened with 2, 1/2 inch slow speed, no variable speed in them days, Craftsman Commercial drill motors.
I came in on Saturday mornings and would go over them. Blow out the dust and dirt if they had fallen off the scaffolding, dirt floored building shed, grease the gear case, check the brushes etc..
They did the whole job with just a brush change or two. Oh and, one on off switch.

In a full service yard ie: marine railway, machine shop, paint shop, plus shipwrights air was the preferred method of powering tools. You could work in water without fear of being zapped.
Remember this was looooong before GFI's were a twinkle in the electrical industries eyes.
Air is more flexible, longer lasting tools, easier to service on site.

If I win the Lottery, fat chance, I would have air tools in my shop plus electric.

We had everything air, Skilsaw, drills, sanders, grinders, screw drivers, chain saws,....

Dave Fleming
09-05-2003, 12:30 PM
What about 'Millers Falls' Dave? Funny thing, IMOOP, about MF, they always seemed to be playing catchup with the other guys.

Made a solid hand tool line especially after acquiring Goodell Pratt. But the power tools were not well thought of in the yards. Hard to find, not able to take the use and abuse that sort of thing.

Craftsman made a line called Craftsman Commercial that was not too shabby. In fact that 50 foot plus schooner I worked on was all fastened with 2, 1/2 inch slow speed, no variable speed in them days, Craftsman Commercial drill motors.
I came in on Saturday mornings and would go over them. Blow out the dust and dirt if they had fallen off the scaffolding, dirt floored building shed, grease the gear case, check the brushes etc..
They did the whole job with just a brush change or two. Oh and, one on off switch.

In a full service yard ie: marine railway, machine shop, paint shop, plus shipwrights air was the preferred method of powering tools. You could work in water without fear of being zapped.
Remember this was looooong before GFI's were a twinkle in the electrical industries eyes.
Air is more flexible, longer lasting tools, easier to service on site.

If I win the Lottery, fat chance, I would have air tools in my shop plus electric.

We had everything air, Skilsaw, drills, sanders, grinders, screw drivers, chain saws,....

warthog5
09-05-2003, 10:10 PM
Dave I've got a B&D 1/2in gear drive drillmotor that is not quite as big as your Burtha. It date's into the early 60's at least. I call it the KILLER DRILL.

The last time I used it, I was fishmouthing alum pipe for hardtop supports/ladder's on a fishmouth jig.
With the jig mounted in the vise. [You can see the picture]. It had the handles at the hight of my forhead.
Well the last cut I had to make, the holesaw grabed.
It pulled me foward when the holesaw grabed and the handle caught me in the forehead.You can't let go of the trigger fast enough and when you do they still wind down. I saw freaking stars! I've got my eye's shut due to the pain and blood and I'm hollering for Lydia to come out there. She comes out in the shop and blood's everywhere on the floor and she start's going crazy. She say's you gotta go to the hospital and get stiches. I say hold on and get me to the garden hose. She get's a rag so I can put preasure on it. Yep it's cut a little. Lot's of blood from a small cut. I tell her just tape it up. Ya' gotta respect those KILLER DRILL'S!
Nope I didn't go to the hospital.

warthog5
09-05-2003, 10:10 PM
Dave I've got a B&D 1/2in gear drive drillmotor that is not quite as big as your Burtha. It date's into the early 60's at least. I call it the KILLER DRILL.

The last time I used it, I was fishmouthing alum pipe for hardtop supports/ladder's on a fishmouth jig.
With the jig mounted in the vise. [You can see the picture]. It had the handles at the hight of my forhead.
Well the last cut I had to make, the holesaw grabed.
It pulled me foward when the holesaw grabed and the handle caught me in the forehead.You can't let go of the trigger fast enough and when you do they still wind down. I saw freaking stars! I've got my eye's shut due to the pain and blood and I'm hollering for Lydia to come out there. She comes out in the shop and blood's everywhere on the floor and she start's going crazy. She say's you gotta go to the hospital and get stiches. I say hold on and get me to the garden hose. She get's a rag so I can put preasure on it. Yep it's cut a little. Lot's of blood from a small cut. I tell her just tape it up. Ya' gotta respect those KILLER DRILL'S!
Nope I didn't go to the hospital.

warthog5
09-05-2003, 10:10 PM
Dave I've got a B&D 1/2in gear drive drillmotor that is not quite as big as your Burtha. It date's into the early 60's at least. I call it the KILLER DRILL.

The last time I used it, I was fishmouthing alum pipe for hardtop supports/ladder's on a fishmouth jig.
With the jig mounted in the vise. [You can see the picture]. It had the handles at the hight of my forhead.
Well the last cut I had to make, the holesaw grabed.
It pulled me foward when the holesaw grabed and the handle caught me in the forehead.You can't let go of the trigger fast enough and when you do they still wind down. I saw freaking stars! I've got my eye's shut due to the pain and blood and I'm hollering for Lydia to come out there. She comes out in the shop and blood's everywhere on the floor and she start's going crazy. She say's you gotta go to the hospital and get stiches. I say hold on and get me to the garden hose. She get's a rag so I can put preasure on it. Yep it's cut a little. Lot's of blood from a small cut. I tell her just tape it up. Ya' gotta respect those KILLER DRILL'S!
Nope I didn't go to the hospital.

John Blazy
09-06-2003, 10:40 AM
I covet those planes!!!! How do you sharpen helical knives on the PC?
Thanks fot the MF info Dave.

John Blazy
09-06-2003, 10:40 AM
I covet those planes!!!! How do you sharpen helical knives on the PC?
Thanks fot the MF info Dave.

John Blazy
09-06-2003, 10:40 AM
I covet those planes!!!! How do you sharpen helical knives on the PC?
Thanks fot the MF info Dave.