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Duncan Gibbs
09-03-2015, 08:43 PM
Austria was only one year independent when it was confronted with approximately 130,000 refugees as a result of the Hungarian Revolution and its brutal suppression by the Soviets. The country already had over 200,000 refugees left inside its borders from WWII. This article outlines the history of the influx of refugees into Austria, the history of the crisis and how Austria managed to cobble together a successful response by pressing other countries and NGOs to help.

http://www.iwm.at/publications/5-junior-visiting-fellows-conferences/vol-xxv/deconstruction-of-a-myth/

It all looks too familiar:

http://www.aeiou.at/aeiou.encyclop.data.image.z/z924686b.jpg

http://www.unhcr.org/thumb1/4aa4fe536.jpg

The Bigfella
09-03-2015, 09:15 PM
Where it is now complicated to a massive extent, is the mix of economic migrants in with the refugees fleeing wars. Until the world figures out how to separate the two, there will be no happy ending.

Cuyahoga Chuck
09-03-2015, 09:16 PM
MY town had a large well established Hungarian speaking community and many of the refugees came here or other places in the US with smaller contingents of ethnic Hungarians. Youngstown and Toledo for instance. It was my understanding at the time that Austria made vigorous efforts to pass the refugees on to others willing to take part of the deluge.

Read; "The Bridge At Andau" by James Michener who interviewed escapees as they entered Austria at the Andau crossing.

Duncan Gibbs
09-03-2015, 09:29 PM
Where it is now complicated to a massive extent, is the mix of economic migrants in with the refugees fleeing wars. Until the world figures out how to separate the two, there will be no happy ending.
This is a false dichotomy.

The notion that poverty isn't violent in and of itself is a conscience salve based upon the idea that oppression is only wielded from the barrel of a gun.

The Bigfella
09-03-2015, 09:40 PM
This is a false dichotomy.

The notion that poverty isn't violent in and of itself is a conscience salve based upon the idea that oppression is only wielded from the barrel of a gun.

....and the notion that someone who wants to earn more money has the right to force their way into a sovereign nation is a nonsense. The real refugees suffer as a result of notions like your suggestion here. Think it through, Dunc - the answer to poverty elimination isn't open borders. Worldwide poverty has been halved since 1990. Free trade is a large part of the solution, but in Oz we have the loopy left opposing it. Go figure?

Duncan Gibbs
09-03-2015, 10:05 PM
....and the notion that someone who wants to earn more money has the right to force their way into a sovereign nation is a nonsense. The real refugees suffer as a result of [...]
... Being tarred with the same brush and saying that anyone who arrives via "illegal", "non-authorised", or "irregular" methods is automatically an "economic migrant." It's a neatly circular conceit which is rapidly being revealed as the outright lie that it is on the borders of Europe.

The Bigfella
09-03-2015, 10:07 PM
Come back in five years and see who was right

Jim Bow
09-04-2015, 12:45 AM
1956 I must have been in 4th grade, Plandome Road School, Manhasset, NY. All of a sudden, six kids showed up. They were from Hungary, it was announced. I was confused, I thought they were hungry.

They fit in pretty well, but of course children are pretty accepting of other children.

Aquinian
09-04-2015, 01:10 AM
The notion that poverty isn't violent in and of itself is a conscience salve based upon the idea that oppression is only wielded from the barrel of a gun.

Well, the left did have to say that, didn't they? 100 million or more violent deaths at the hands of left-wing governments created a bit of a PR problem! :)

Duncan Gibbs
09-04-2015, 02:28 AM
Don't pollute my thread with your wrongness John, and hang stupid smiley off the end of such wrongness. It's moronic. Don't do it.

Better still read the essay linked in the OP and learn some facts.

Also understand that the essay I linked to talks directly to the fact that the Soviets were killing large numbers of Hungarians.

The Bigfella
09-04-2015, 02:42 AM
Don't pollute my thread with your wrongness John, and hang stupid smiley off the end of such wrongness. It's moronic. Don't do it.

Better still read the essay linked in the OP and learn some facts.

Also understand that the essay I linked to talks directly to the fact that the Soviets were killing large numbers of Hungarians.


I was just reading up on the refugees in Hungary. Seems that there's a lot of country shopping going on. Not happy with Greece, didn't like Serbia and Macedonia, nope, Hungary hasn't got enough jobs... they want Germany or Scandinavia.

What's your view Duncan? Should these refugees get to self-select which country they want?

Aquinian
09-04-2015, 02:57 AM
Don't pollute my thread with your wrongness John, and hang stupid smiley off the end of such wrongness. It's moronic. Don't do it.

Better still read the essay linked in the OP and learn some facts.

Also understand that the essay I linked to talks directly to the fact that the Soviets were killing large numbers of Hungarians.

Yes, I know, I read the essay. Also read about the Hungarian Uprising some thirty years ago, and have read more about it since. As a Catholic, I'm interested in the various Atheist oppressions of the Hungarians (e.g. Bela Kun - look that one up), and indeed of the Austrians (read about the Soviet invasion of Austria if you ever need a few nightmares), and consoled by the welcome that the Austrian Catholics gave to their oppressed Hungarian neighbours - Catholic and non-Catholic.

Not sure what your point is, but you seem to be saying, "Don't criticise the left, I am already doing that, read the essay which criticises the left."

So you're not making sense, Dunc.

What I said, which I think makes perfect sense, is don't equate poverty with "oppression" because that notion originated with the Soviets, who were mass murderers. Yes, I get it, you know the Soviets were mass murderers. So why have you adopted their lying rhetoric?

Cheers,
John.

Robbie 2
09-04-2015, 03:20 AM
I have a good friend (Hungarian) in Sydney Australia who with his family were sponsored to migrate to Australia after leaving Hungary after this Russian Invasion.
He is an Aussie now and has never forgotten the kindness shown to his family at a difficult time.

The Bigfella
09-04-2015, 04:41 AM
Indeed. IIRC, Australia will take 190,000 immigrants again this year, as we do year on year... along with doing more humanitarian refugee re-settlements on a per capita basis - and even on a direct numbers basis than pretty much anyone. The problems start when folks attempt to re-classify themselves for spurious reasons

The Bigfella
09-04-2015, 04:45 AM
Interesting

https://gjabel.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/cfplot_reg2.png?w=640&h=640

Duncan Gibbs
09-04-2015, 04:47 AM
So why have you adopted their lying rhetoric?
I haven't. The quote is from Gandhi.

But you're a hardliner Catholic and apparently verifiable facts don't matter a jot to you. :)

Peerie Maa
09-04-2015, 04:47 AM
Yes, I know, I read the essay. Also read about the Hungarian Uprising some thirty years ago, and have read more about it since. As a Catholic, I'm interested in the various Atheist oppressions of the Hungarians (e.g. Bela Kun - look that one up), and indeed of the Austrians (read about the Soviet invasion of Austria if you ever need a few nightmares), and consoled by the welcome that the Austrian Catholics gave to their oppressed Hungarian neighbours - Catholic and non-Catholic.

Not sure what your point is, but you seem to be saying, "Don't criticise the left, I am already doing that, read the essay which criticises the left."

So you're not making sense, Dunc.

What I said, which I think makes perfect sense, is don't equate poverty with "oppression" because that notion originated with the Soviets, who were mass murderers. Yes, I get it, you know the Soviets were mass murderers. So why have you adopted their lying rhetoric?

Cheers,
John.

By using the word left on a US website you create a very clear declaration of intent. The left in Europe of the 1950's is a different animal from the European left 60 years later, and a world away from the US left. You sounded as though you were thinking in clichés, you may need to select more appropriate terms, unless you really were taking a poke at the US Dems.

PeterSibley
09-04-2015, 05:10 AM
By using the word left on a US website you create a very clear declaration of intent. The left in Europe of the 1950's is a different animal from the European left 60 years later, and a world away from the US left. You sounded as though you were thinking in clichés, you may need to select more appropriate terms, unless you really were taking a poke at the US Dems.

You have it in one.

Paul Pless
09-04-2015, 05:39 AM
This is a false dichotomy.but its all he's got

similarly sky blue will be along with his 'western exceptionalism' argument soon. . . .

Duncan Gibbs
09-06-2015, 07:12 AM
This is heartwarming and harks back to 1956.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVLNSOvpmT8

Ordinary people are going out of their way to help the new arrivals in both Germany and Austria. Ironically the far right parties are protesting in Budapest.

Duncan Gibbs
09-06-2015, 07:16 AM
Interesting
I note that the diagrams on the blog show gross migration figures and not refugee totals. Interesting form of graphic though, and it would be interesting to see the refugee version.

skuthorp
09-06-2015, 07:49 AM
I was in high school in 1956, suddenly we had a big influx of Hungarian kids and some teachers. Mt Radvansky, history, ex wW2 partisan so he said, scars, made european history live. Mr 'Murphy', music. Ran the school orchestra, a modern jazz group, several trios and quartets. A math teacher whose name I cannot recall, but he taught me a lot that came back to me later on. Amongst the kids Gabriella who spoke and wrote 6 languages. A violin prodigy named Roy for short, several math tyros. For almost a year Latin and French were the languages common to the school population while they learnt the Aussie version of English.

I would like to see us take a 100,000 of these refugees extra. We took a lot in when the Balkans were in a similar mess.