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Scott Rosen
06-19-2000, 09:10 AM
I've used Smith & Co's CPES and two-part filler. At least in the shop, both have performed as advertised and appear to be excellent products. The wood filler has better qualities than any epoxy/microballoon mix that I've used. It applies easier, takes a feather edge, dries stronger and less brittle but also has more flexibility. It sands well, but not quite as easily as epoxy microballon mix. Plus you don't have to deal with breathing the dust from the microballoons when you mix it up.

Have any of you tried Smith's other products? I'm especially interested in their Tropical Wood Glue, which they tout as an epoxy suitable for "difficult" woods like teak, oak and other oily woods.

Scott Rosen
06-19-2000, 09:10 AM
I've used Smith & Co's CPES and two-part filler. At least in the shop, both have performed as advertised and appear to be excellent products. The wood filler has better qualities than any epoxy/microballoon mix that I've used. It applies easier, takes a feather edge, dries stronger and less brittle but also has more flexibility. It sands well, but not quite as easily as epoxy microballon mix. Plus you don't have to deal with breathing the dust from the microballoons when you mix it up.

Have any of you tried Smith's other products? I'm especially interested in their Tropical Wood Glue, which they tout as an epoxy suitable for "difficult" woods like teak, oak and other oily woods.

Scott Rosen
06-19-2000, 09:10 AM
I've used Smith & Co's CPES and two-part filler. At least in the shop, both have performed as advertised and appear to be excellent products. The wood filler has better qualities than any epoxy/microballoon mix that I've used. It applies easier, takes a feather edge, dries stronger and less brittle but also has more flexibility. It sands well, but not quite as easily as epoxy microballon mix. Plus you don't have to deal with breathing the dust from the microballoons when you mix it up.

Have any of you tried Smith's other products? I'm especially interested in their Tropical Wood Glue, which they tout as an epoxy suitable for "difficult" woods like teak, oak and other oily woods.

Andrew
07-13-2001, 11:57 AM
Scot, did you ever try the Tropical Wood Glue, especially with oak?

Andrew
07-13-2001, 11:57 AM
Scot, did you ever try the Tropical Wood Glue, especially with oak?

Andrew
07-13-2001, 11:57 AM
Scot, did you ever try the Tropical Wood Glue, especially with oak?

Hazy Chris
07-13-2001, 08:24 PM
Scott,
I've heard good things about it from a few people who have tried it. My boat is right by Smith & Co. and one weekend a while back, I stopped in to pick up some CPES and to look for a good resin for another (non boat) project. I got to talking chemistry and polymers with Mr Smith. About 4 hours later-(no kidding) I left somewhat amazed. He is a really nice guy, an eccentric who clearly knows his ****. I think Bob and some others have talked with him before too. Well worth the time.
You are right, he formulated the hardwood glue for more "oily" woods that don't pull glues into the grain structure very well. I think the surfactant system is tweaked and I believe the acid content of the wood plays into the equation somehow for that glue if I remember correctly. Somewhere in there he recommended giving it a try on white oak, something I have yet to do. We got on that topic because I asked if he knew why people don't seem to like using epoxy for laminating white oak. I would believe pretty much any label claim he has made, and wouldn't hesitatie to give it a try myself.

I'd also recommend talking to him if you get the chance, on the phone or better in person. At worst you will get a really cool show and tell about all of his test pieces lying around the place (ask him to see his version of polysulfide)-and if you want to talk chemistry, he is your man. (Though the stingy bastard wouldn't give me the recipie for CPES).
I don't think boats were his primary concern when he originally came up with some of his formulations, but he is well aware of what we wood types are looking for. Anybody out there tried his Layup and Laminating resin? That also came out of the conversation about laminating white oak. I tried a little for someting else and noticed it was extremely strong when cured, yet it remained flexible.

[This message has been edited by Hazy Chris (edited 07-13-2001).]

Hazy Chris
07-13-2001, 08:24 PM
Scott,
I've heard good things about it from a few people who have tried it. My boat is right by Smith & Co. and one weekend a while back, I stopped in to pick up some CPES and to look for a good resin for another (non boat) project. I got to talking chemistry and polymers with Mr Smith. About 4 hours later-(no kidding) I left somewhat amazed. He is a really nice guy, an eccentric who clearly knows his ****. I think Bob and some others have talked with him before too. Well worth the time.
You are right, he formulated the hardwood glue for more "oily" woods that don't pull glues into the grain structure very well. I think the surfactant system is tweaked and I believe the acid content of the wood plays into the equation somehow for that glue if I remember correctly. Somewhere in there he recommended giving it a try on white oak, something I have yet to do. We got on that topic because I asked if he knew why people don't seem to like using epoxy for laminating white oak. I would believe pretty much any label claim he has made, and wouldn't hesitatie to give it a try myself.

I'd also recommend talking to him if you get the chance, on the phone or better in person. At worst you will get a really cool show and tell about all of his test pieces lying around the place (ask him to see his version of polysulfide)-and if you want to talk chemistry, he is your man. (Though the stingy bastard wouldn't give me the recipie for CPES).
I don't think boats were his primary concern when he originally came up with some of his formulations, but he is well aware of what we wood types are looking for. Anybody out there tried his Layup and Laminating resin? That also came out of the conversation about laminating white oak. I tried a little for someting else and noticed it was extremely strong when cured, yet it remained flexible.

[This message has been edited by Hazy Chris (edited 07-13-2001).]

Hazy Chris
07-13-2001, 08:24 PM
Scott,
I've heard good things about it from a few people who have tried it. My boat is right by Smith & Co. and one weekend a while back, I stopped in to pick up some CPES and to look for a good resin for another (non boat) project. I got to talking chemistry and polymers with Mr Smith. About 4 hours later-(no kidding) I left somewhat amazed. He is a really nice guy, an eccentric who clearly knows his ****. I think Bob and some others have talked with him before too. Well worth the time.
You are right, he formulated the hardwood glue for more "oily" woods that don't pull glues into the grain structure very well. I think the surfactant system is tweaked and I believe the acid content of the wood plays into the equation somehow for that glue if I remember correctly. Somewhere in there he recommended giving it a try on white oak, something I have yet to do. We got on that topic because I asked if he knew why people don't seem to like using epoxy for laminating white oak. I would believe pretty much any label claim he has made, and wouldn't hesitatie to give it a try myself.

I'd also recommend talking to him if you get the chance, on the phone or better in person. At worst you will get a really cool show and tell about all of his test pieces lying around the place (ask him to see his version of polysulfide)-and if you want to talk chemistry, he is your man. (Though the stingy bastard wouldn't give me the recipie for CPES).
I don't think boats were his primary concern when he originally came up with some of his formulations, but he is well aware of what we wood types are looking for. Anybody out there tried his Layup and Laminating resin? That also came out of the conversation about laminating white oak. I tried a little for someting else and noticed it was extremely strong when cured, yet it remained flexible.

[This message has been edited by Hazy Chris (edited 07-13-2001).]

Jim Surdyke
07-13-2001, 10:41 PM
Scott- I am just completing rebuilding the transom on my ketch. The frames are white oak and there is solid blocking (12 quarter white oak) across the top and midway down the ribs. Because it was a repair as against new construction, it was necessary for me to rely on an epoxy adhesive on the abutting surfaces as well as oak doweling for further reinforcement. I am using Smiths Tropical Hardwood Epoxy along with CPES. While tests have shown superb holding power, I understand that the proof of the pudding will come in five years or so when the tannins in the oak have had time to work thier mishief. I much prefer the workability and consistancy of Tropical over say West as it is easier to control. I use CPES extensivly and recently completed a major blister repair on a 65' fiberglass trawler using Smiths System, after comparing it to Interlux, West, Pettit etc. Smith's System for bilister repair (CPES, Hi-build Epoxy Primers, Fill-it and More Primers)went on faster thus reducing lay days in the yard. I have used thier Strontium Chromate Primer for under water metal prep. All in all, I cannot come up with another manufacturer who's products I have more faith in than Smiths.

I evaluated thier Five year clear and while it appears to last as advertised, I am going to use Bristol Finish over CPES as I don't like the clear plastic look of Five Year Clear and do like the traditional Amber Color of Bristol.

Jim Surdyke
07-13-2001, 10:41 PM
Scott- I am just completing rebuilding the transom on my ketch. The frames are white oak and there is solid blocking (12 quarter white oak) across the top and midway down the ribs. Because it was a repair as against new construction, it was necessary for me to rely on an epoxy adhesive on the abutting surfaces as well as oak doweling for further reinforcement. I am using Smiths Tropical Hardwood Epoxy along with CPES. While tests have shown superb holding power, I understand that the proof of the pudding will come in five years or so when the tannins in the oak have had time to work thier mishief. I much prefer the workability and consistancy of Tropical over say West as it is easier to control. I use CPES extensivly and recently completed a major blister repair on a 65' fiberglass trawler using Smiths System, after comparing it to Interlux, West, Pettit etc. Smith's System for bilister repair (CPES, Hi-build Epoxy Primers, Fill-it and More Primers)went on faster thus reducing lay days in the yard. I have used thier Strontium Chromate Primer for under water metal prep. All in all, I cannot come up with another manufacturer who's products I have more faith in than Smiths.

I evaluated thier Five year clear and while it appears to last as advertised, I am going to use Bristol Finish over CPES as I don't like the clear plastic look of Five Year Clear and do like the traditional Amber Color of Bristol.

Jim Surdyke
07-13-2001, 10:41 PM
Scott- I am just completing rebuilding the transom on my ketch. The frames are white oak and there is solid blocking (12 quarter white oak) across the top and midway down the ribs. Because it was a repair as against new construction, it was necessary for me to rely on an epoxy adhesive on the abutting surfaces as well as oak doweling for further reinforcement. I am using Smiths Tropical Hardwood Epoxy along with CPES. While tests have shown superb holding power, I understand that the proof of the pudding will come in five years or so when the tannins in the oak have had time to work thier mishief. I much prefer the workability and consistancy of Tropical over say West as it is easier to control. I use CPES extensivly and recently completed a major blister repair on a 65' fiberglass trawler using Smiths System, after comparing it to Interlux, West, Pettit etc. Smith's System for bilister repair (CPES, Hi-build Epoxy Primers, Fill-it and More Primers)went on faster thus reducing lay days in the yard. I have used thier Strontium Chromate Primer for under water metal prep. All in all, I cannot come up with another manufacturer who's products I have more faith in than Smiths.

I evaluated thier Five year clear and while it appears to last as advertised, I am going to use Bristol Finish over CPES as I don't like the clear plastic look of Five Year Clear and do like the traditional Amber Color of Bristol.

Bob Cleek
07-19-2001, 08:56 PM
Ain't Smith's grand? Gee, I remember back a few years when all this got started and I had to twist arms to get guys to try CPES. I figure he owes me a couple of gallons for the free advertising! LOL At least I got Scott converted! That took some doing, but now... well, there's nothing like a reformed drunk or a Smith's convert! LOL

Bob Cleek
07-19-2001, 08:56 PM
Ain't Smith's grand? Gee, I remember back a few years when all this got started and I had to twist arms to get guys to try CPES. I figure he owes me a couple of gallons for the free advertising! LOL At least I got Scott converted! That took some doing, but now... well, there's nothing like a reformed drunk or a Smith's convert! LOL

Bob Cleek
07-19-2001, 08:56 PM
Ain't Smith's grand? Gee, I remember back a few years when all this got started and I had to twist arms to get guys to try CPES. I figure he owes me a couple of gallons for the free advertising! LOL At least I got Scott converted! That took some doing, but now... well, there's nothing like a reformed drunk or a Smith's convert! LOL

paladin
07-20-2001, 05:57 AM
Fellows, I don't know what you use over here when trying to glue oily woods together, but in Thailand we "wash" or wipe the wood to be glued with acetone a couple of times and then the epoxy stuff. Seems to work well in the things that I stuck together several years ago...at least they arent in several pieces now...

paladin
07-20-2001, 05:57 AM
Fellows, I don't know what you use over here when trying to glue oily woods together, but in Thailand we "wash" or wipe the wood to be glued with acetone a couple of times and then the epoxy stuff. Seems to work well in the things that I stuck together several years ago...at least they arent in several pieces now...

paladin
07-20-2001, 05:57 AM
Fellows, I don't know what you use over here when trying to glue oily woods together, but in Thailand we "wash" or wipe the wood to be glued with acetone a couple of times and then the epoxy stuff. Seems to work well in the things that I stuck together several years ago...at least they arent in several pieces now...