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View Full Version : Confederate Flag is taken down from Capital grounds in SC



John Smith
07-09-2015, 04:51 PM
A great number of people are happy to see that flag come down. The 'good guys' won a battle.

I fear, strategically, winning this battle makes the war more difficult to win. Next time a civil rights issue reaches our Supreme court, I can almost hear Scalia or one his his conservative colleagues pointing to that flag coming down as proof racism no longer exists in this country.

I also expect the racist organizations are already considering how to retaliate. I hope I'm wrong, but I expect more violence.

Phil Y
07-09-2015, 05:09 PM
Ha ha. Our Prime Minister's adviser on Indigenous affairs in the Northern Territory, where I think we probably have our largest indigenous population, is in the news having been photographed at a party wearing a shirt made up of a confederate flag. He says no offence was meant and he just didn't realise the significance! Seriously? Is the guy completely stupid or just dishonest? The PM says honest mistake, nothing to see here, let's all get back to slagging the ABC where heads must roll after they allowed an extremist Muslim air time on a chat show about extremist Muslims.

Paul Pless
07-09-2015, 05:17 PM
dumbass

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/6604074-4x3-340x255.jpg

RichKrough
07-09-2015, 08:05 PM
I just got home but i knew they must have taken it down. I was coming home a few minutes ago and 2 douches in a bubba-truck with a big confederate flag flying from the bed and South Carolina license plates went flying by me on US 17

Rich Jones
07-09-2015, 08:25 PM
I just got home but i knew they must have taken it down. I was coming home a few minutes ago and 2 douches in a bubba-truck with a big confederate flag flying from the bed and South Carolina license plates went flying by me on US 17 I wonder....if two flags, the Confederate and American, were standing on a muddy field and a stiff wind started knocking them over, would those two bubbas dive to save the Confederate or the American flag from falling into the mud?

RichKrough
07-09-2015, 08:47 PM
Never take John Smith's reporting as fact.

They're taking the flag down, with a ceremony, tomorrow morning at 10AM EDT.

Ah, Ok, Thanks

Fitz
07-09-2015, 08:48 PM
Ok. That is over with. Can someone run the country now?

Reynard38
07-09-2015, 08:56 PM
I just got home but i knew they must have taken it down. I was coming home a few minutes ago and 2 douches in a bubba-truck with a big confederate flag flying from the bed and South Carolina license plates went flying by me on US 17

Glad I'm not the only one that uses the term "bubba truck"!

Funny that when I was in Germany I didn't see anybody flying a swazstika off the back of their Mercedes.

The damn civil war was what, 150 years ago? WW2 was 1/2 that?

The Germans got over it, so should the rednecks hanging onto that rag. Invariably when they show some supporter of the stars and bars it's some room temperature IQ, inbred, hill scoggin stump****.

They are a shame on a part of the U.S. that I love and call home.

Fitz
07-09-2015, 09:08 PM
It is a symbol of a defeated army, same as the swastika. Losers. Get on with running a democracy. It takes leaders that we don't have. Doesn't look good any time soon.

RichKrough
07-09-2015, 10:26 PM
Glad I'm not the only one that uses the term "bubba truck"!

Funny that when I was in Germany I didn't see anybody flying a swazstika off the back of their Mercedes.

The damn civil war was what, 150 years ago? WW2 was 1/2 that?

The Germans got over it, so should the rednecks hanging onto that rag. Invariably when they show some supporter of the stars and bars it's some room temperature IQ, inbred, hill scoggin stump****.

They are a shame on a part of the U.S. that I love and call home.

Ditto, Everyone i know around here is just tired of hearing about it.

Joe (SoCal)
07-10-2015, 09:16 AM
Its DOWN Y>

“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”― Martin Luther King Jr. (https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/23924.Martin_Luther_King_Jr_)
Watching it live on the news how come i see the troopers using a crank on the poll to lower it???? I thought it could not be lowered to half staff ??? Seems to this old Sailor it could have been.

Keith Wilson
07-10-2015, 09:25 AM
“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”― Martin Luther King Jr. (https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/23924.Martin_Luther_King_Jr_)Great quote, but misattributed. King was quoting Theodore Parker (1810-1860) (http://transcendentalism-legacy.tamu.edu/authors/parker/) a Unitarian minister and one of the transcendentalists, a friend of Emerson and Thoreau.

https://ampoarchive.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/parker1.jpg?w=700

Rum_Pirate
07-10-2015, 09:35 AM
Is this 'flag' the South Carolina 'State flag'?

If not, why was it ever allowed to be flown on the State Capital grounds or buildings from the time the US Civil war was over until present?


BTW, I understand that THIS is the South Carolina State Flag :

http://www.50states.com/flag/image/nunst066.gif

Interesting that it has a crescent moon included in it. :rolleyes:

John of Phoenix
07-10-2015, 09:36 AM
Looked like they were ready for a riot with the amount of firepower on display.

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 09:37 AM
I wonder....if two flags, the Confederate and American, were standing on a muddy field and a stiff wind started knocking them over, would those two bubbas dive to save the Confederate or the American flag from falling into the mud?At the time, I suspect a Union soldier or a Confederate one would take up their individual flag if it fell. On the same thought, either side would retrieve the other's flag when one side was defeated. in battle!

ccmanuals
07-10-2015, 09:39 AM
Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing…after they have exhausted all other possibilities.

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 09:42 AM
The Germans got over it, Rich, I don't think the Germans HAVE gotten over it! The Nazi stigma will last as long as they are still alive! It will diminish with the younger generations I suspect.

Memphis Mike
07-10-2015, 11:39 AM
How much do you pay for a loaf of bread in NYC? What's the cost of living up there?

Sky Blue
07-10-2015, 11:58 AM
I wonder....if two flags, the Confederate and American, were standing on a muddy field and a stiff wind started knocking them over, would those two bubbas dive to save the Confederate or the American flag from falling into the mud?

Best question that anyone has asked on this forum in a good long time.

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 12:14 PM
Adams, John G. B.John G. B. Adams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_G._B._Adams)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
O-01Second Lieutenant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Lieutenant#United_States)
Battle of Fredericksburg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fredericksburg), Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia)
000000001862-12-13-0000Dec 13, 1862
Seized the 2 colors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colours,_standards_and_guidons) from the hands of a corporal and a lieutenant as they fell mortally wounded, and with a color in each hand advanced across the field to a point where the regiment was reformed on those colors.




Aheam, MichaelMichael Aheam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Aheam)
Navy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Navy)
Paymaster's Steward
Aboard the USS Kearsarge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kearsarge_(1861)) off Cherbourg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherbourg-Octeville), France (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France)
000000001864-06-19-0000Jun 19, 1864
Served on board the USS Kearsarge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kearsarge_(1861)) when she destroyed the CSS Alabama (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSS_Alabama) off Cherbourg, France, 19 June 1864.




Alber, FrederickFrederick Alber (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Alber)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
E-01Private (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_(rank))
Battle of Spotsylvania Court House (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Spotsylvania_Court_House), Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia)
000000001864-05-12-0000May 12, 1864
Bravely rescued Lt. Charles H. Todd of his regiment who had been captured by a party of Confederates by shooting down one, knocking over another with the butt of his musket, and taking them both prisoners.




Albert, ChristianChristian Albert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Albert_(Medal_of_Honor))
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
E-01Private (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_(rank))
Battle of Vicksburg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vicksburg), Miss.
000000001863-05-22-0000May 22, 1863
Gallantry in the charge of the "volunteer storming party."




Allen, Abner P.Abner P. Allen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_P._Allen)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
E-04Corporal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal#United_States)
Third Battle of Petersburg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Petersburg_III), Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia)
000000001865-04-02-0000Apr 2, 1865
Gallantry as color bearer in the assault on Fort Gregg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Petersburg_III).




Allen, JamesJames Allen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Allen_(Medal_of_Honor))
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
E-01Private (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_(rank))
Battle of South Mountain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_South_Mountain), Md.
000000001862-09-14-0000Sep 14, 1862
Single-handed and slightly wounded he accosted a squad of 14 Confederate soldiers bearing the colors of the 16th Georgia Infantry (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=16th_Georgia_Infantry&action=edit&redlink=1) (C.S.A.).




Allen, Nathaniel M.Nathaniel M. Allen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_M._Allen)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
E-04Corporal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal#United_States)
Battle of Gettysburg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gettysburg), Pa.
000000001863-07-02-0000Jul 2, 1863
When his regiment was falling back, this soldier, bearing the national color, returned in the face of the enemy's fire, pulled the regimental flag from under the body of its bearer, who had fallen, saved the flag from capture, and brought both colors off the field.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Adelbert_Ames.jpg/75px-Adelbert_Ames.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Adelbert_Ames.jpg)
Ames, AdelbertAdelbert Ames (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelbert_Ames)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
O-02First Lieutenant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Lieutenant#United_States)
First Battle of Bull Run (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Bull_Run), Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia)
000000001861-07-21-0000Jul 21, 1861
Artillery (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery) commander who stayed with his battery despite grave wounds.




Ammerman, Robert W.Robert W. Ammerman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Ammerman)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
E-01Private (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_(rank))
Battle of Spotsylvania Court House (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Spotsylvania_Court_House), Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia)
000000001864-05-12-0000May 12, 1864
Capture of battle flag of 8th North Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=8th_North_Carolina&action=edit&redlink=1) (C.S.A.), being one of the foremost in the assault.




Anderson, BruceBruce Anderson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Anderson_(soldier))
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
E-01Private (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_(rank))
Second Battle of Fort Fisher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Fort_Fisher), North Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina)
000000001865-01-15-0000Jan 15, 1865
Voluntarily advanced with the head of the column and cut down the palisading (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palisade).


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/George_Pforr_aka_Charles_W._Anderson.jpg/75px-George_Pforr_aka_Charles_W._Anderson.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:George_Pforr_aka_Charles_W._Anderson.jpg)
Anderson, Charles W.Charles W. Anderson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_W._Anderson)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
E-01Private (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_(rank))
Battle of Waynesboro, Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Waynesboro,_Virginia)
000000001865-03-02-0000Mar 2, 1865
Capture of unknown Confederate flag.




Anderson, Everett W.Everett W. Anderson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_W._Anderson)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
Sergeant
Crosbys Creek, Tenn.
000000001864-01-14-0000Jan 14, 1864
Captured, single-handed, Confederate Brig. Gen. Robert B. Vance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_B._Vance) during a charge upon the enemy.




Anderson, Frederick C.Frederick C. Anderson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_C._Anderson)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
E-01Private (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_(rank))
Battle of Globe Tavern (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Globe_Tavern), Virginia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia)
000000001864-08-21-0000Aug 21, 1864
Capture of battle flag of 27th South Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=27th_South_Carolina&action=edit&redlink=1) (C.S.A.) and the color bearer.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Marion_T._Anderson.jpg/75px-Marion_T._Anderson.jpg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Marion_T._Anderson.jpg)
Anderson, Marion T.Marion T. Anderson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_T._Anderson)
Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Army)
Captain
Battle of Nashville (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nashville), Tenn.
000000001864-12-16-0000Dec 16, 1864
Led his regiment over 5 lines

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 12:21 PM
This is only a partial list, only the "As" for Medal of Honor recipients. Those capturing battle flags are highlighted

Joe (SoCal)
07-10-2015, 12:23 PM
How much do you pay for a loaf of bread in NYC? What's the cost of living up there?




[Edit (http://www.numbeo.com/common/form.jsp?city=New+York%2C+NY&country=United+States&returnUrl=%2Ffood-prices%2Fcity_result.jsp%3Fcountry%3DUnited%2BStat es%26city%3DNew%2BYork%252C%2BNY&current=1&section=true)] Avg.
Range


Milk (regular), (1 gallon)
4.88 $

4.00



7.57


Loaf of Fresh White Bread (1 lb)
2.73 $

1.99



3.63


Rice (white), (1 lb)
1.78 $

1.36



3.00


Eggs (12)
3.34 $

2.16



4.00


Local Cheese (1 lb)
5.32 $

4.00



8.00


Chicken Breasts (Boneless, Skinless), (1 lb)
5.14 $

3.00



8.00


Apples (1 lb)
2.21 $

1.99



2.99


Oranges (1 lb)
2.35 $

1.81



3.00


Tomato (1 lb)
2.08 $

0.99



3.00


Potato (1 lb)
1.36 $

0.99



2.00


Lettuce (1 head)
1.96 $

1.50



3.00


Last update: July, 2015

But it's all relative to Median Income. NYC Neighborhoods. The median household income across New York City stands at $50,711, according to 2010-2012 estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau.

Memphis, TN Income and Salaries. The income per capita is $21,368

And this has WHAT to do with taking down the confederate flag ???

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 12:25 PM
Wrong thread Joe!

Breakaway
07-10-2015, 12:52 PM
How much do you pay for a loaf of bread in NYC? What's the cost of living up there?

I buy the two for $5 whole grain multigrain bread on sale. ( 80 miles outside the city)

Kevin

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 12:55 PM
Small bakery! Local distribution $3.99

bamamick
07-10-2015, 01:03 PM
O.K.. The flag is down. So what happens now? Hopefully all of those folks who lobbied so hard for this have a plan to create jobs, improve education, etc. Because if they don't they were just a bunch of posers who were covering their own arses to make sure they get re-elected next go round.

Mickey Lake

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 01:06 PM
O.K.. The flag is down. So what happens now? Hopefully all of those folks who lobbied so hard for this have a plan to create jobs, improve education, etc. Because if they don't they were just a bunch of posers who were covering their own arses to make sure they get re-elected next go round.

Mickey LakeDonno but, read the thread "tit for tat" for one result!

Keith Wilson
07-10-2015, 01:09 PM
Hopefully all of those folks who lobbied so hard for this have a plan to . . . Making one small improvement doesn't mean we can fix everything. They're not necessarily connected.

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 01:11 PM
Making one small improvement doesn't mean we can fix everything. They're not necessarily connected.The mind set (in cement) still exists!

Vince Brennan
07-10-2015, 01:12 PM
Mick, great trees from small acorns and all that. I know it's not pleasant, but eventually this too shall pass.

Joe (SoCal)
07-10-2015, 01:13 PM
Wrong thread Joe!

Nope MMike asked


How much do you pay for a loaf of bread in NYC? What's the cost of living up there?

I answered and was confused why it was included in this thread as well

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 01:26 PM
Maybe people will take you down from your pedestal!:)

Joe (SoCal)
07-10-2015, 02:02 PM
A little responsibility would be in their best interest. "Taking down" other people certainly won't help. Most people realize that win-win solutions are the only lasting ones.

Tell that to Sherman ;)

Keith Wilson
07-10-2015, 02:18 PM
The fact that a lot of the political divisions in the US still follow the lines of 1860 indicates that Sherman's solution, while quite effective in the short term, left a lot of problems unsolved.

Osborne Russell
07-10-2015, 02:32 PM
OK the flag's down, how much history has been erased?

Osborne Russell
07-10-2015, 02:34 PM
That settles it. The final bastion of racism has been removed. Case closed.

Another of your arguments ad absurdum has failed.

John of Phoenix
07-10-2015, 02:45 PM
Another Dunning-Kruger red.

Osborne Russell
07-10-2015, 02:50 PM
Sorry you had trouble with that one.

You wish. You're transparent.

Keith Wilson
07-10-2015, 03:03 PM
Jeez guys, taking the Confederate flag down won't improve much, and AFAIK nobody ever claimed it would. It's a small symbolic step, which won't make any noticeable practical improvement immediately. It's still the right thing to do.

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 03:05 PM
Not until the old, racist crowd dies off. You are correct!

John Smith
07-10-2015, 04:22 PM
Never take John Smith's reporting as fact.

They're taking the flag down, with a ceremony, tomorrow morning at 10AM EDT.

The law was signed when I posted. It's now down.

John Smith
07-10-2015, 04:27 PM
Jeez guys, taking the Confederate flag down won't improve much, and AFAIK nobody ever claimed it would. It's a small symbolic step, which won't make any noticeable practical improvement immediately. It's still the right thing to do.

I agree the flag ought not fly on government property. I fear winning this battle will make the war longer.

John Smith
07-10-2015, 04:29 PM
Not until the old, racist crowd dies off. You are correct!

The racist who started all this is a young man. I doubt he's alone. My aunt and my brother were quite the racists. Have no idea how their kids and grandkids think.

Let's hope this doesn't lead to more violence and more deaths.

Reynard38
07-10-2015, 07:33 PM
Is this 'flag' the South Carolina 'State flag'?

If not, why was it ever allowed to be flown on the State Capital grounds or buildings from the time the US Civil war was over until present?


BTW, I understand that THIS is the South Carolina State Flag :

http://www.50states.com/flag/image/nunst066.gif

Interesting that it has a crescent moon included in it. :rolleyes:

Here is an explanation.

However, there is much debate about the significance of the crescent. In 1775 Colonel William Moultrie was asked by the "Revolutionary Council of Safety" to design a flag for the South Carolina troops. In his memoirs, Colonel Wiliam Moultrie tells us: "A little time after we were in possession of Fort Johnson, it was thought necessary to have a flag for the purpose of signals: (as there was no national or state flag at that time) I was desired by the council of safety to have one made, upon which, as the state troops were clothed in blue, and the fort was garrisoned by the first and second regiments, who wore a silver crescent on the front of their caps; I had a large blue flag made with a crescent in the dexter corner, to be in uniform with the troops ..."In the 16-hour battle on June 28, 1776, the flag was shot down, but Sergeant William Jasper (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jasper) ran out into the open, raising it and rallying the troops until it could be mounted again. This gesture was so heroic, saving Charleston, South Carolina (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston,_South_Carolina), from conquest for four years, that the flag came to be the symbol of the Revolution, and liberty, in the state and the new nation.

S.V. Airlie
07-10-2015, 07:44 PM
Interesting! Thanks!

RichKrough
07-10-2015, 09:42 PM
I'm sure they are looking for the next demon to blame their plight on.


They? Most of my block is composed of "they" Next door is a noted author and lecturer of African American history, his wife is a retired school administrator. Next to them is an attorney, next to the attorney is a couple who own a successful local business. Their neighbor is a plumber and his wife a school teacher. next to them is a couple who are both RN's........
I would guess their only plight is ignorant people like you who categorize a whole race of people based on a few examples on evening news

RichKrough
07-10-2015, 10:22 PM
Rich, calling me ignorant only shows your inability to control your emotions and clearly casts questions about your own credibility.
Im not interested in who lives on your block or their occupations.

Nothing emotional here sport, I just call them as I see them. BTW I know you are not interested in what the majority of African Americans do with their lives you are only interested in trying to find something to complain about to compensate for your own failure to succeed in life.

Jimmy W
07-10-2015, 11:09 PM
A great number of people are happy to see that flag come down. The 'good guys' won a battle.

I fear, strategically, winning this battle makes the war more difficult to win. Next time a civil rights issue reaches our Supreme court, I can almost hear Scalia or one his his conservative colleagues pointing to that flag coming down as proof racism no longer exists in this country.

I also expect the racist organizations are already considering how to retaliate. I hope I'm wrong, but I expect more violence.

Yes, there will be more violence without the flag standing and there would have been more violence if the flag had remained. We live in a violent society with many weapons. That shouldn't stop us from doing the correct thing every now and then.

John Smith
07-11-2015, 07:02 AM
They? Most of my block is composed of "they" Next door is a noted author and lecturer of African American history, his wife is a retired school administrator. Next to them is an attorney, next to the attorney is a couple who own a successful local business. Their neighbor is a plumber and his wife a school teacher. next to them is a couple who are both RN's........
I would guess their only plight is ignorant people like you who categorize a whole race of people based on a few examples on evening news

Isn't that exactly what bigotry and racism are.

Remember when Obama first got elected and addressed school children? Remember the horror and outrage by many. The President of the United States addresses the children of our nation, and some, many, American citizens were outraged and didn't want their kids to hear him.

Why, if not his skin color?

John Smith
07-11-2015, 07:12 AM
Nothing emotional here sport, I just call them as I see them. BTW I know you are not interested in what the majority of African Americans do with their lives you are only interested in trying to find something to complain about to compensate for your own failure to succeed in life.

I remember watching the winter Olympics one day some years back. My friend noted America had no white guys in the ski events. Giving it some thought, I came to the conclusion that it takes a good amount of money to go skiing compared to playing basketball. I remembered someone saying that it is one thing to allow blacks into a college, but another thing for them to be able to afford it. As a nation, we've got a history of denying people of color opportunity, then we act shocked and blame them when they fail.

I'm of the opinion that we should teach some black history. We should teach about the Tuskegee air force, the buffalo soldiers, and more recently we should teach about Jackie Robinson. We can look at the NFL who simply refused to believe a black man could play quarterback, or coach, and how slowly that changed.

Some years back there was a study. Resumes were sent. They were identical, except for the names. "White" sounding names got interviews. "Black" sounding names did not. Another study a while back showed the vast majority of drivers on the NJ Turnpike were white, but the vast majority of tickets were issues to blacks.

All of this we need a way to teach. Education can eradicate racism. Simply taking this flag down won't.

John Smith
07-11-2015, 07:19 AM
Yes, there will be more violence without the flag standing and there would have been more violence if the flag had remained. We live in a violent society with many weapons. That shouldn't stop us from doing the correct thing every now and then.

Not sure I agree this was the correct thing. I do agree this flag has no business flying on public property. And I agree it should come down from the Capital. But this has gone way past that. Walmart and other retailers have taken the flag and its image off their shelves, so private citizens can't buy it. I think that's overkill and is very apt to anger many who can't buy this flag, but they can buy a gun.

As my previous post said, I think education is the answer. I would have preferred a longer term project of educating people, and that, I'd hope, would lead to fewer and fewer people wanting this symbol displayed anywhere.

I grew up in a white area. When Elvis and rock&roll hit I got my first introduction to racism. I'm really glad my parents were not racist. My brother and I could listen to all the artists. We had several friends who came to our house, because at their house they were not allowed to listen to Fats, Bo diddly, Chuck Berry, etc.

bamamick
07-11-2015, 07:22 AM
Ha! I wasn't allowed to listen to the Beatles, but my mom and dad had Ray Charles and Nat King Cole albums in their collection. It's a funny world, sometimes.

Mickey Lake

John Smith
07-11-2015, 07:36 AM
Remember the Wurlitzer I posted pictures of? The guy who owns it, many years ago, pulled up in my driveway about 9 PM one Friday evening and had me get into his car. As we're driving down our local street I asked our destination. Richmond Virginia is where we were going for the weekend.

There was a theater organ convention. To my great surprise I loved it.

One organist played a marvelous set of Beatles music. While everyone seemed to enjoy it, most didn't recognize the songs. After he was done he let them know it was all stuff written by the Beatles.

Tom Wilkinson
07-11-2015, 08:02 AM
Not sure I agree this was the correct thing. I do agree this flag has no business flying on public property. And I agree it should come down from the Capital. But this has gone way past that. Walmart and other retailers have taken the flag and its image off their shelves, so private citizens can't buy it. I think that's overkill and is very apt to anger many who can't buy this flag, but they can buy a gun.

As my previous post said, I think education is the answer. I would have preferred a longer term project of educating people, and that, I'd hope, would lead to fewer and fewer people wanting this symbol displayed anywhere.

I grew up in a white area. When Elvis and rock&roll hit I got my first introduction to racism. I'm really glad my parents were not racist. My brother and I could listen to all the artists. We had several friends who came to our house, because at their house they were not allowed to listen to Fats, Bo diddly, Chuck Berry, etc.
Why do you keep confusing private business with government. People are still ass free as ever to buy and display that flag, they just have to find a retailer that is willing to sell it. A few strokes of a the keyboard and there are plenty. You seem to advocate forcing someone to sell something they don't want to sell. You are confusing the issues.

S.V. Airlie
07-11-2015, 08:05 AM
Kinda like fireworks, maybe illegal in your state so, just toddle over to the neighboring state where it's legal to buy them.

Canoeyawl
07-11-2015, 11:56 AM
Taking the symbols down doesn't change anything, but the surrounding rhetoric spreading across the country might.

The conversation is good, making changes no matter how small is good. It is all good, and way overdue.

Having this president methodically and quietly prove himself so competent against a such bigoted and ongoing campaign against him has been enlightening for the country.

Osborne Russell
07-11-2015, 12:34 PM
First off, you don't know anything about my interests. Second, I wasn't complaining about anything. I have lived in the south and recognize your need to try and separate yourself from the well deserved stigma of the south. Unfortunately you have lived up to it.

You don't have that same need, then?