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Peterduncan
07-08-2015, 09:39 AM
I am currently building the Handi Billy by Harry Bryan and was wondering if I can substitute white pine for Atlantic White Cedar for the planking. The required thickness is 5/8". In a test I have found that the pine does not need to be steamed to make the bend in the bow. Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Dan McCosh
07-08-2015, 10:19 AM
Cedar is more rot resistant than pine.

ahp
07-08-2015, 10:32 AM
I am currently building the Handi Billy by Harry Bryan and was wondering if I can substitute white pine for Atlantic White Cedar for the planking. The required thickness is 5/8". In a test I have found that the pine does not need to be steamed to make the bend in the bow. Am I barking up the wrong tree?

I have no first hand experience with either as a boat building wood. That said, I have read that long leaf yellow pine is quite rot resistant. It is also harder and heavier. I don't know if you can get long leaf yellow pine easily in CT, or know what you are getting. Down here if you go to the Big Box they have "Southern Pine" what ever that is. Maybe it just grew south of the Mason Dixon Line.

switters
07-08-2015, 10:38 AM
weight difference is a major consideration,

about 3lbs difference per cuft.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/weigt-wood-d_821.html

Gib Etheridge
07-08-2015, 11:15 AM
About 35 years ago I build a Chamberlain dory of very nice clear eastern white pine and subsequently traded it for an old easthope engine. The new owner left it out in the weather and less than 2 years later it was rotted beyond repair. I've used lodgepole pine for a couple of outdoor projects with the same results. Never again.

Jay Greer
07-08-2015, 12:35 PM
Eastern White Pine is, traditionally, a favorite wood for small boat planking. A popular Olympic boat of the 1930's, The Snow Bird or Olympiad Dinghys were planked with it. And were very hardy boats. However, it can be confused with other varieties of white pine if you are not familiar with it. Technicaly known as Pinus Strobis it is more rot resistant than other white pines, some of which, are very very low in rot restance. I have used quite a lot of it for carving of commercial signs and it is a pleasure to work with and it smells nice as well! The shop will be filled with heady pine perfume during the milling of this great wood. It can be used for planking of small boats as well as laid decks.

That being said, I would still consider white cedar for planking especially for its resistance to rot. Again, it you choose to use Eastern White pine, make sure that it is just that "Pinus Strobis" or you may find your boat rotting out from under you in the near future. If used for decking it should be washed down with salt water at least twice a week during sailing season. The moisture will keep the decks tight and the salt will preserve the wood.
Jay

Hugh Conway
07-08-2015, 01:02 PM
Pine is much easier to find in long clear lengths.

BillyBudd
07-08-2015, 02:40 PM
When I built Harry's Fiddlehead, I called and asked about cedar since I don't live where cedar grows. Harry asked what grows here and I said "Pine does...eastern white pine." Harry suggested that I use the pine if...IF...I was going to keep the boat out of the water and under cover when not actually boating about. The Fiddlehead is probably 10 years old by now and looks great...cetol finsih. There are some areas on the lapstrakes where the white of the wood turned grey so it shows it's age but that is nice. For the Handi Billy I would not use pine but would go for the more reliable cedar unless you will be trailering it in/out of the water and keeping it under cover. Re-planking because one needs to save $$ always costs more and one's demeanor can be a bit rough about the edges when re-planking for the saved, now lost by at least 2x, cash.

nedL
07-08-2015, 05:03 PM
If you have never worked with AWC, it is wonderful wood to work with (and just about never rots). I would much prefer it to pine.

Peterduncan
07-08-2015, 06:37 PM
Thanks for your reply. I feel a little more confident about using it..

SMARTINSEN
07-08-2015, 08:53 PM
Most of the white pine that you see in CT has significantly high proportion of sapwood. Great to work with, though cedar is better. Orders of magnitude nicer to work than the loblolly around here. Lots and lots of the 200 year old houses in New England have while pine clapboards. If they have lasted this long, then fine for trailer sailer onLake Waramaug. Hinman in Burlington is a good source.

Peterduncan
07-09-2015, 04:01 AM
How did you know I live next to Lake Waramaug?

Aquinian
07-09-2015, 04:21 AM
Peter, have a look at your posts, on the top right corner is your location...

Tom Christie
07-09-2015, 10:04 AM
Peter,

I can appreciate your predicament.
I strongly recommend you use what the designer asks for.
If you still can't decide, build both, one of each, then you'll know and you can sell the one you don't want as a new boat and fetch a healthy sum that may even pay for your other boat.
Happy building and remember... we know where you live!

Peterduncan
07-09-2015, 11:33 AM
Duh! on me

willin woodworks
07-10-2015, 12:58 PM
As Jay points out Pinus Strobis is a perfectly acceptable boatbuilding wood. There's a lot of old lobster boats around New England that are pine planked over oak and are going strong. The key is making sure that what you are buying is Strobis and not one of a half dozen "White" pines that will rot while you watch them.

Buy from a reputable yard and you should have no problem. Condon's in Storm King NY has Strobis but they are turning into a PITA place to do business. You might call the guys at Kellog Hardwood in Bethel. If they cant get it for you, they can probably tell you who can. There was a real good yard in Brookfield years ago but I cant remember the name and I don't know if they are still in business.

Let us know how it goes.

Peterduncan
07-10-2015, 01:34 PM
We actually mill our own pine with a portable sawmill. Can you tell me what Strobis looks like.??

Jay Greer
07-10-2015, 01:48 PM
Here is a site that has some good photos of Pinus Strobus. Matching end grain under an hand lens is the most important tool of identification.
Jay
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/softwoods/eastern-white-pine/

Dannybb55
07-10-2015, 06:58 PM
The New York Launch that we are working on is cedar above the water line and yellow pine below. Many of these planks have been in service since 1913, with brown cotton caulking, copper rivets and lead painted oak frames. The cedar holds topside paint better, the pine resists abraision.

SMARTINSEN
07-10-2015, 07:14 PM
We actually mill our own pine with a portable sawmill. Can you tell me what Strobis looks like.??


Pinus strobus is the white pine abundant in CT. If you are getting it from a local sawmill, and your own can not be any more local, chances are almost certain that it is pinus strobus. Red pine is distinctive, and was decimated about 20 years or so ago in your region, there is a fair amount in plantations in the state forests. Red, three letters, red pine three needles; white, 5 letters, white pine, 5 needles.

Here is are the indigenous pines of CT:

http://www.treesforme.com/ct_pinus.html

Peterduncan
07-11-2015, 08:21 AM
From it's definition and by process of quick elimination it looks like Pinus Strobus is all we ver milled in the pine family here in CT

SMARTINSEN
07-11-2015, 04:43 PM
Assuredly so.