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View Full Version : Kilz as hull undercoat?



David Kippen
07-23-2003, 08:27 PM
My old fishboat has a fir hull. Last time her hull was painted, the undercoat didn't stick too well so now she's got patches of paint larger than a dollar bill peeling off and leaving exposed fir underneath. :eek:

She's also got some rust streaks, which aren't too bad because the hull's currently green, but when I repaint, I want to go white on the hull and they'll look terrible. So, I was thinking about sanding down to the wood and undercoating with Kilz oil-based primer above the water line, then overcoating with a Kirby white. Any thoughts or comments?

David Kippen
07-23-2003, 08:27 PM
My old fishboat has a fir hull. Last time her hull was painted, the undercoat didn't stick too well so now she's got patches of paint larger than a dollar bill peeling off and leaving exposed fir underneath. :eek:

She's also got some rust streaks, which aren't too bad because the hull's currently green, but when I repaint, I want to go white on the hull and they'll look terrible. So, I was thinking about sanding down to the wood and undercoating with Kilz oil-based primer above the water line, then overcoating with a Kirby white. Any thoughts or comments?

David Kippen
07-23-2003, 08:27 PM
My old fishboat has a fir hull. Last time her hull was painted, the undercoat didn't stick too well so now she's got patches of paint larger than a dollar bill peeling off and leaving exposed fir underneath. :eek:

She's also got some rust streaks, which aren't too bad because the hull's currently green, but when I repaint, I want to go white on the hull and they'll look terrible. So, I was thinking about sanding down to the wood and undercoating with Kilz oil-based primer above the water line, then overcoating with a Kirby white. Any thoughts or comments?

Mr. Know It All
07-23-2003, 08:57 PM
First, What kind of boat? What is causing the rust?

Interesting question Dave. Kilz is cheap compared to marine paint and I've had good results with it on wood outside. I've never used it on a boat so I'm interested if anyone has.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

Mr. Know It All
07-23-2003, 08:57 PM
First, What kind of boat? What is causing the rust?

Interesting question Dave. Kilz is cheap compared to marine paint and I've had good results with it on wood outside. I've never used it on a boat so I'm interested if anyone has.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

Mr. Know It All
07-23-2003, 08:57 PM
First, What kind of boat? What is causing the rust?

Interesting question Dave. Kilz is cheap compared to marine paint and I've had good results with it on wood outside. I've never used it on a boat so I'm interested if anyone has.
Peace---> Kevin in Ohio

On Vacation
07-23-2003, 09:07 PM
This is not an endosement, but a statement of fact. I have probably used 500 gallons of kilz on cedar, mahogany, fir and fiberglass with great success. This is not an endorsement to say that if you are having a problem with paint sticking, you may have a water problem in the wood, and not much will stick to it, if that is the case.

On Vacation
07-23-2003, 09:07 PM
This is not an endosement, but a statement of fact. I have probably used 500 gallons of kilz on cedar, mahogany, fir and fiberglass with great success. This is not an endorsement to say that if you are having a problem with paint sticking, you may have a water problem in the wood, and not much will stick to it, if that is the case.

On Vacation
07-23-2003, 09:07 PM
This is not an endosement, but a statement of fact. I have probably used 500 gallons of kilz on cedar, mahogany, fir and fiberglass with great success. This is not an endorsement to say that if you are having a problem with paint sticking, you may have a water problem in the wood, and not much will stick to it, if that is the case.

Mr. Know It All
07-23-2003, 09:20 PM
Oyster.....Oil base or latex? Did it work on fir plywood?

Mr. Know It All
07-23-2003, 09:20 PM
Oyster.....Oil base or latex? Did it work on fir plywood?

Mr. Know It All
07-23-2003, 09:20 PM
Oyster.....Oil base or latex? Did it work on fir plywood?

On Vacation
07-23-2003, 09:23 PM
I have used oil base, but I did use a gallon last year of the water based on pine. I don't like the comment of the peeling part. If you look at the base ingredients of the oil base kilz, you will find it to be the basic ingredients of Brightsides primer, at 1/3 cost. Never use it on fir plywood. I use most of my fir laminated in the transom for strength and then skin it either with glass or a hardwood plywood or solid veneer.

[ 07-23-2003, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

On Vacation
07-23-2003, 09:23 PM
I have used oil base, but I did use a gallon last year of the water based on pine. I don't like the comment of the peeling part. If you look at the base ingredients of the oil base kilz, you will find it to be the basic ingredients of Brightsides primer, at 1/3 cost. Never use it on fir plywood. I use most of my fir laminated in the transom for strength and then skin it either with glass or a hardwood plywood or solid veneer.

[ 07-23-2003, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

On Vacation
07-23-2003, 09:23 PM
I have used oil base, but I did use a gallon last year of the water based on pine. I don't like the comment of the peeling part. If you look at the base ingredients of the oil base kilz, you will find it to be the basic ingredients of Brightsides primer, at 1/3 cost. Never use it on fir plywood. I use most of my fir laminated in the transom for strength and then skin it either with glass or a hardwood plywood or solid veneer.

[ 07-23-2003, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

Hughman
07-23-2003, 09:25 PM
<snip> undercoating with Kilz oil-based primer <>

Isn't Kilz Alcohol/shellac based? It ought to be "damp" tolerant.

If you're wooding the boat, how 'bout CPES? Might stabilize the rust streaks. Gotta be dry, though.

Hughman
07-23-2003, 09:25 PM
<snip> undercoating with Kilz oil-based primer <>

Isn't Kilz Alcohol/shellac based? It ought to be "damp" tolerant.

If you're wooding the boat, how 'bout CPES? Might stabilize the rust streaks. Gotta be dry, though.

Hughman
07-23-2003, 09:25 PM
<snip> undercoating with Kilz oil-based primer <>

Isn't Kilz Alcohol/shellac based? It ought to be "damp" tolerant.

If you're wooding the boat, how 'bout CPES? Might stabilize the rust streaks. Gotta be dry, though.

On Vacation
07-23-2003, 09:33 PM
If you read the recommendation on the can, the company recommends it for interior use only. It is used on many wet ceilings and walls. But I can only attest to dry wood and sand stripped wood hulls and cabins that are allowed to dry out or are reasonably dry. IMHO, the rusty nails says he has some working and some wicking issues in the hull, more than just dampness. Thats my.02 worth.

On Vacation
07-23-2003, 09:33 PM
If you read the recommendation on the can, the company recommends it for interior use only. It is used on many wet ceilings and walls. But I can only attest to dry wood and sand stripped wood hulls and cabins that are allowed to dry out or are reasonably dry. IMHO, the rusty nails says he has some working and some wicking issues in the hull, more than just dampness. Thats my.02 worth.

On Vacation
07-23-2003, 09:33 PM
If you read the recommendation on the can, the company recommends it for interior use only. It is used on many wet ceilings and walls. But I can only attest to dry wood and sand stripped wood hulls and cabins that are allowed to dry out or are reasonably dry. IMHO, the rusty nails says he has some working and some wicking issues in the hull, more than just dampness. Thats my.02 worth.

Ian McColgin
07-24-2003, 08:38 AM
Goblin, my old '30's vintage Alden schooner, got Kilz as a primer coat when I wooded her and changed the color to 'Goblin green' - 1 part of kirby's deepest gloss green and 3 parts of their flat black - and that stuck tenaciously.

I've also used Kilz under latex.

Both above and below the water line.

Someday I might even try to test a Kilz base v. CPES base in some kind of multi-year thing.

I've only used Kilz on older hulls. I have no idea whether it's the best way to go at first finish of a new boat.

Not really, as Grana is epoxy sealed anyway. Point is, if you've got an older hull of traditional construction and don't want to mess with CPES for whatever reason, including cost, you can't beat Kilz.

Ian McColgin
07-24-2003, 08:38 AM
Goblin, my old '30's vintage Alden schooner, got Kilz as a primer coat when I wooded her and changed the color to 'Goblin green' - 1 part of kirby's deepest gloss green and 3 parts of their flat black - and that stuck tenaciously.

I've also used Kilz under latex.

Both above and below the water line.

Someday I might even try to test a Kilz base v. CPES base in some kind of multi-year thing.

I've only used Kilz on older hulls. I have no idea whether it's the best way to go at first finish of a new boat.

Not really, as Grana is epoxy sealed anyway. Point is, if you've got an older hull of traditional construction and don't want to mess with CPES for whatever reason, including cost, you can't beat Kilz.

Ian McColgin
07-24-2003, 08:38 AM
Goblin, my old '30's vintage Alden schooner, got Kilz as a primer coat when I wooded her and changed the color to 'Goblin green' - 1 part of kirby's deepest gloss green and 3 parts of their flat black - and that stuck tenaciously.

I've also used Kilz under latex.

Both above and below the water line.

Someday I might even try to test a Kilz base v. CPES base in some kind of multi-year thing.

I've only used Kilz on older hulls. I have no idea whether it's the best way to go at first finish of a new boat.

Not really, as Grana is epoxy sealed anyway. Point is, if you've got an older hull of traditional construction and don't want to mess with CPES for whatever reason, including cost, you can't beat Kilz.

David Kippen
07-24-2003, 04:34 PM
Thanks for all the testimonials on Kilz. I'm glad to know that I'm not nuts to consider it.

The boat's a 28' 1924 wooden fishboat known locally in the SF Bay Area as a Montery Clipper.

I've had her since February, so I don't know this for sure, but I think the last paint job (which was intended to change hull color from black to green) may have been over older paint without proper prep. Or it may have been painted when not quite dry.

But here's a question: if you don't want to keep a wooden boat out any longer than you must, how long should you let it dry before starting to paint?

David Kippen
07-24-2003, 04:34 PM
Thanks for all the testimonials on Kilz. I'm glad to know that I'm not nuts to consider it.

The boat's a 28' 1924 wooden fishboat known locally in the SF Bay Area as a Montery Clipper.

I've had her since February, so I don't know this for sure, but I think the last paint job (which was intended to change hull color from black to green) may have been over older paint without proper prep. Or it may have been painted when not quite dry.

But here's a question: if you don't want to keep a wooden boat out any longer than you must, how long should you let it dry before starting to paint?

David Kippen
07-24-2003, 04:34 PM
Thanks for all the testimonials on Kilz. I'm glad to know that I'm not nuts to consider it.

The boat's a 28' 1924 wooden fishboat known locally in the SF Bay Area as a Montery Clipper.

I've had her since February, so I don't know this for sure, but I think the last paint job (which was intended to change hull color from black to green) may have been over older paint without proper prep. Or it may have been painted when not quite dry.

But here's a question: if you don't want to keep a wooden boat out any longer than you must, how long should you let it dry before starting to paint?

Scott Rosen
07-24-2003, 05:48 PM
How does the Kilz sand? A good finish primer should cover well, fill the grain and sand easily.

Scott Rosen
07-24-2003, 05:48 PM
How does the Kilz sand? A good finish primer should cover well, fill the grain and sand easily.

Scott Rosen
07-24-2003, 05:48 PM
How does the Kilz sand? A good finish primer should cover well, fill the grain and sand easily.

On Vacation
07-24-2003, 06:20 PM
As long as you stir the original can from the start, from the bottom, then its not that bad. But the silica in it, settles to the bottom. And after you have used about half of it, the paint becomes thick. Thin it with mineral spirits or turpentine. The first coat on bare wood, will dry really quickly, so a recoat can be done. But make sure the first coat or the second is dry.

If you don't and its the bottom half of the can, you will enjoy a nice goo to remove under the second coat. It will sand slicker than any primer on the market, in an enamel base, when dry. Painting it in a brisk wind or direct sunshine, will leave huge brush or lap marks to sand.

Before sanding, spot the top coat wildly with black primer for detection of low areas, or brush marks. Roll it on large areas, but thin it before you put it in the pan, or it will film over in any wind. Drying times are really quick for new cans.

[ 07-24-2003, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

On Vacation
07-24-2003, 06:20 PM
As long as you stir the original can from the start, from the bottom, then its not that bad. But the silica in it, settles to the bottom. And after you have used about half of it, the paint becomes thick. Thin it with mineral spirits or turpentine. The first coat on bare wood, will dry really quickly, so a recoat can be done. But make sure the first coat or the second is dry.

If you don't and its the bottom half of the can, you will enjoy a nice goo to remove under the second coat. It will sand slicker than any primer on the market, in an enamel base, when dry. Painting it in a brisk wind or direct sunshine, will leave huge brush or lap marks to sand.

Before sanding, spot the top coat wildly with black primer for detection of low areas, or brush marks. Roll it on large areas, but thin it before you put it in the pan, or it will film over in any wind. Drying times are really quick for new cans.

[ 07-24-2003, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

On Vacation
07-24-2003, 06:20 PM
As long as you stir the original can from the start, from the bottom, then its not that bad. But the silica in it, settles to the bottom. And after you have used about half of it, the paint becomes thick. Thin it with mineral spirits or turpentine. The first coat on bare wood, will dry really quickly, so a recoat can be done. But make sure the first coat or the second is dry.

If you don't and its the bottom half of the can, you will enjoy a nice goo to remove under the second coat. It will sand slicker than any primer on the market, in an enamel base, when dry. Painting it in a brisk wind or direct sunshine, will leave huge brush or lap marks to sand.

Before sanding, spot the top coat wildly with black primer for detection of low areas, or brush marks. Roll it on large areas, but thin it before you put it in the pan, or it will film over in any wind. Drying times are really quick for new cans.

[ 07-24-2003, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

David Kippen
07-24-2003, 08:41 PM
Here's what she looks like. :D

You'll have to click through a couple of pages to get there: Cyrene (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289585915)

As you can see, she's a workboat. She's never going to have a perfectly fair finish, and I'm more than fine with that.

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing what she'll look like when her colors are more traditional (like the other Montereys in this album).

David Kippen
07-24-2003, 08:41 PM
Here's what she looks like. :D

You'll have to click through a couple of pages to get there: Cyrene (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289585915)

As you can see, she's a workboat. She's never going to have a perfectly fair finish, and I'm more than fine with that.

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing what she'll look like when her colors are more traditional (like the other Montereys in this album).

David Kippen
07-24-2003, 08:41 PM
Here's what she looks like. :D

You'll have to click through a couple of pages to get there: Cyrene (http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289585915)

As you can see, she's a workboat. She's never going to have a perfectly fair finish, and I'm more than fine with that.

That said, I'm looking forward to seeing what she'll look like when her colors are more traditional (like the other Montereys in this album).

Mr. Know It All
07-24-2003, 09:37 PM
Nice boat ya got there Dave! smile.gif

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p5c4038d979c720d99b71043f1f068fc1/fb953be6.jpg

Mr. Know It All
07-24-2003, 09:37 PM
Nice boat ya got there Dave! smile.gif

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p5c4038d979c720d99b71043f1f068fc1/fb953be6.jpg

Mr. Know It All
07-24-2003, 09:37 PM
Nice boat ya got there Dave! smile.gif

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p5c4038d979c720d99b71043f1f068fc1/fb953be6.jpg

capt jake
07-24-2003, 10:01 PM
Is that the boat?? I must hide this fast, before SWMBO sees this!! That is awesome, exactly what she and I want!!!!

Looking great!!

John

capt jake
07-24-2003, 10:01 PM
Is that the boat?? I must hide this fast, before SWMBO sees this!! That is awesome, exactly what she and I want!!!!

Looking great!!

John

capt jake
07-24-2003, 10:01 PM
Is that the boat?? I must hide this fast, before SWMBO sees this!! That is awesome, exactly what she and I want!!!!

Looking great!!

John

David Kippen
07-25-2003, 04:08 PM
Thanks so much! Wish I could take some credit, but she was built long before I was born, back when my grandfather was still a young man.

If you like her, though, you should come have a look around. You'll find a number of Montereys for sale around the Bay Area (and along the Central California coast, esp. in Moss Landing). They aren't very fast or very big, so the're not competitive as fishboats. Lots for sale in the $5,000-$15,000 range, with the $15,000 boats being in excellent condition.

Couple of Montereys at Fishermen's Wharf recently sold for not much at all....

David Kippen
07-25-2003, 04:08 PM
Thanks so much! Wish I could take some credit, but she was built long before I was born, back when my grandfather was still a young man.

If you like her, though, you should come have a look around. You'll find a number of Montereys for sale around the Bay Area (and along the Central California coast, esp. in Moss Landing). They aren't very fast or very big, so the're not competitive as fishboats. Lots for sale in the $5,000-$15,000 range, with the $15,000 boats being in excellent condition.

Couple of Montereys at Fishermen's Wharf recently sold for not much at all....

David Kippen
07-25-2003, 04:08 PM
Thanks so much! Wish I could take some credit, but she was built long before I was born, back when my grandfather was still a young man.

If you like her, though, you should come have a look around. You'll find a number of Montereys for sale around the Bay Area (and along the Central California coast, esp. in Moss Landing). They aren't very fast or very big, so the're not competitive as fishboats. Lots for sale in the $5,000-$15,000 range, with the $15,000 boats being in excellent condition.

Couple of Montereys at Fishermen's Wharf recently sold for not much at all....