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jclays
06-27-2015, 10:43 AM
I have a few major construction projects going on in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills. During my commute to and from the jobs I play tourist and sight see along the neighborhoods. Can't tell that there is a drought. Beverly Hills, Brentwood, Bel Air, and West Hollywood are green. No dry lawns, fountains running. Just nice. Then I come home and walk on semi green straw crunching under foot that once was a lawn. I and my neighbors around town water twice a week as prescribed. How do these other towns get away with it.

CWSmith
06-27-2015, 10:46 AM
My visits to Santa Fe and the surrounding cities have shown me that a dry lawn with native plants can be very lovely and completely appropriate.

jclays
06-27-2015, 10:53 AM
That does look nice but not the style of my house.

genglandoh
06-27-2015, 12:02 PM
Just a bunch of limousine liberals who think they do not have to follow the rules.

Canoeyawl
06-27-2015, 01:31 PM
It's all about income, and perceived "rights"

http://cdn.cstatic.net/images/gridfs/55240838f92ea13aa2023cfa/Screen%20Shot%202015-04-07%20at%209.38.55%20AM.png

Dave Gray
06-27-2015, 01:44 PM
They do have to face fines. Perhaps if the fines went up geometrically for repeat offenders the cost may make them take notice. Or not.

Canoeyawl
06-27-2015, 02:52 PM
Fines are just part of the law of supply and demand. In LA it seems to apply to murder about equally with water use.

If you make $750k how much bite is in a $100 fine?
Not so much.

CWSmith
06-27-2015, 03:02 PM
Just a bunch of limousine liberals who think they do not have to follow the rules.

You know them personally? How do you know they are not conservatives who reject water rationing and conservation?

LeeG
06-27-2015, 07:26 PM
Just a bunch of limousine liberals who think they do not have to follow the rules.

And you know this how? Your manifest ignorance is tiresome. Palm Springs, quite a bastion of liberalism.

http://www.motherjones.com/files/Final-CA-Cities-Corrected-630_3.gif

seanz
06-27-2015, 07:29 PM
Fines are just part of the law of supply and demand. In LA it seems to apply to murder about equally with water use.

If you make $750k how much bite is in a $100 fine?
Not so much.


Income indexed fines are the way. Justice for all!

:D

Steve McMahon
06-27-2015, 08:51 PM
In my new place in Newfoundland there are very few lawns, and the ones there are tend to be very small. Few people waste their limited topsoil in growing grass and instead grow a few potatoes, turnips, or cabbage. There is certainly no shortage of water. Besides, who wants to be wasting time tending a lawn when they could be boating and fishing instead?

Glen Longino
06-27-2015, 08:52 PM
Just a bunch of limousine liberals who think they do not have to follow the rules.

Says the Limousine Troglodyte!
Gobbledygook!

jclays
06-27-2015, 08:53 PM
You know them personally? How do you know they are not conservatives who reject water rationing and conservation?
West Hollywood is the epicenter of gay Southern California doubt they are conservatives.
Beverly Hills and Bel Air is where Obama and Hillary went fund raising...Not a very conservative town. Actors, musicians and such.

jclays
06-28-2015, 10:08 AM
I suppose in West Hollywood they recycle the steam bath condensate..
Yech....gross

CWSmith
06-28-2015, 10:12 AM
In my new place in Newfoundland there are very few lawns, and the ones there are tend to be very small. Few people waste their limited topsoil in growing grass and instead grow a few potatoes, turnips, or cabbage. There is certainly no shortage of water. Besides, who wants to be wasting time tending a lawn when they could be boating and fishing instead?

I wish I could talk my wife into this. I wish I could keep the deer and ground hogs away. Grass is boring.

CWSmith
06-28-2015, 10:17 AM
There was a rebroadcast of Ask This Old House last night that visited some "dry" yards. In the southern California climate it takes 55 gallons of water to maintain 1 square foot of grass for a year. Wow!

They also said that a pool 5 feet deep uses less water than a lawn even when one includes evaporation and biannual replacement of the water.

I don't water my lawn and I live in a place where it's largely not necessary to do so. I'm realizing that carrying this suburban habit to a climate where it makes no sense is a real burden on the resources.

Phillip Allen
06-28-2015, 01:11 PM
I have a few major construction projects going on in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills. During my commute to and from the jobs I play tourist and sight see along the neighborhoods. Can't tell that there is a drought. Beverly Hills, Brentwood, Bel Air, and West Hollywood are green. No dry lawns, fountains running. Just nice. Then I come home and walk on semi green straw crunching under foot that once was a lawn. I and my neighbors around town water twice a week as prescribed. How do these other towns get away with it.

liberals with money

Phillip Allen
06-28-2015, 01:12 PM
I have a few major construction projects going on in West Hollywood and Beverly Hills. During my commute to and from the jobs I play tourist and sight see along the neighborhoods. Can't tell that there is a drought. Beverly Hills, Brentwood, Bel Air, and West Hollywood are green. No dry lawns, fountains running. Just nice. Then I come home and walk on semi green straw crunching under foot that once was a lawn. I and my neighbors around town water twice a week as prescribed. How do these other towns get away with it.

liberals with money

Phillip Allen
06-28-2015, 01:17 PM
They do have to face fines. Perhaps if the fines went up geometrically for repeat offenders the cost may make them take notice. Or not.

money doesn't mean much to rich people... public humiliation is better

S.V. Airlie
06-28-2015, 01:19 PM
West Hollywood is the epicenter of gay Southern California doubt they are conservatives.
Beverly Hills and Bel Air is where Obama and Hillary went fund raising...Not a very conservative town. Actors, musicians and such. Yup, Caitlyn is a liberal but, votes republican!:)

jclays
07-08-2015, 11:52 AM
Have to laugh or I'll scream. Local water companies will be raising rates due to falling revenues. People are cutting back on water usage as requested now water revenues have fallen.

Phillip Allen
07-08-2015, 12:01 PM
Phillip is using envy and avarice as a political bludgeon... it don't make no difference how much money liberals have, but their bank accounts DO make a difference to Phillip...

Fred, old buddy, I am reminding YOU that liberals use envy and avarice as a political bludgeon... don't go all lj on us

Keith Wilson
07-08-2015, 12:19 PM
One more time - about 80% of human water use in California is irrigated agriculture. Lawns are a literal drop in the bucket.

LeeG
07-08-2015, 01:48 PM
One more time - about 80% of human water use in California is irrigated agriculture. Lawns are a literal drop in the bucket.

And the pisser is that those who have already cut consumption considerably over the decades are being told to cut more while agribusiness receives subsidies to grow high water use crops. It makes no sense to focus on wealthy residences when the real waste comes from laws and entitlements that developed out of the 19th century.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h8kkbenxQK8&feature=youtu.be
https://projects.propublica.org/killing-the-colorado/story/michael-friberg-colorado-water-photo-essay

“Killing the Colorado,” a joint reporting project by ProPublica and Matter, set out to tell the truth about the American West’s water crisis. As serious as the drought is, the investigation found that mismanagement of that region’s surprisingly ample supply has led to today’s emergency. Among the causes are the planting of the thirstiest crops; arcane and outdated water rights laws; the unchecked urban development in unsustainable desert environments; and the misplaced confidence in human ingenuity to engineer our way out of a crisis — with dams and canals, tunnels and pipelines.

http://www.juancole.com/2015/07/californias-drought-crisis.html

Water use policies—perhaps more than nature—have caused the water crisis in the West. As the former Arizona governor and U.S. Secretary of the Interior Bruce Babbitt told ProPublica: “There is enough water in the West‚ [but] there are all kinds of agriculture efficiencies that have not been put into place.”
....
West get about taking shorter showers and turning off sprinklers, the fact remains that agriculture uses the most water, by far. Farming and agriculture use more than 70 percent of the water that flows from the Colorado River to the seven river basin states.
In addition to those crops, cotton is one of the thirstiest crops a farmer can grow, especially in a desert. As it happens, many of the crops that use less water entitle farmers to fewer federal subsidies, and so farmers don’t have much of an incentive to switch crops. Though cotton production has dropped steeply in California, since 1995, California farmers have gotten $3 billion in federal subsidies to grow it. On top of subsidies, ” Use it or Lose It” clauses in state water laws actually encourage farmers to flood their fields with much more water than they need lest they lose the right to that amount of water in the future.

Ted Hoppe
07-08-2015, 03:02 PM
West Hollywood is the epicenter of gay Southern California doubt they are conservatives.
Beverly Hills and Bel Air is where Obama and Hillary went fund raising...Not a very conservative town. Actors, musicians and such.

Punish the Mexicans and other immigrants who turn on the water and tend the grass. first offense - loss of consortium.by forced medically treated chemical application. second offense - remove their government issued firearm. third offense - loss of use of any truck.

what at pisses me off as a northern Californian is we are using buckets in our 3 min showers to collect grey water and now drink water that tastes more like that that Floridans enjoy (yucky) that comes from algae filled reserves. I personally have come to not like most southern Californians or even those from Marin. come to think about it... I which they would just all go home from where they came.

LeeG
07-08-2015, 03:33 PM
A
I personally have come to not like most southern Californians or even those from Marin. come to think about it... I which they would just all go home from where they came.

It's not the people living in those areas that are the problem it's generations of entitlement going to agribusiness. Price water for agribusiness so it is used more conservatively and shift production to lower water use crops. Restrict groundwater extraction. Until then all the focus on rich people's lawns is pissing in the wind.

Phillip Allen
07-08-2015, 04:23 PM
A

It's not the people living in those areas that are the problem it's generations of entitlement going to agribusiness. Price water for agribusiness so it is used more conservatively and shift production to lower water use crops. Restrict groundwater extraction. Until then all the focus on rich people's lawns is pissing in the wind.

so, it's not the customer at all?

LeeG
07-08-2015, 04:28 PM
so, it's not the customer at all?

The agribusiness customer is consuming the largest share of the water while getting subsidized by the gov't to produce the most water intensive crops and there is little restriction on ground water extraction so aquifers that are compacting will never recover even if rainfall increased. So yeah, it's the customer, the residential customer isn't the culprit.

Phillip Allen
07-08-2015, 04:30 PM
The agribusiness customer is consuming the largest share of the water while getting subsidized by the gov't to produce the most water intensive crops and there is little restriction on ground water extraction so aquifers that are compacting will never recover even if rainfall increased. So yeah, it's the customer, the residential customer isn't the culprit.

what about ALL the other customers, which I was referring to... the huddled masses, as it were

Ted Hoppe
07-08-2015, 04:35 PM
A

It's not the people living in those areas that are the problem it's generations of entitlement going to agribusiness. Price water for agribusiness so it is used more conservatively and shift production to lower water use crops. Restrict groundwater extraction. Until then all the focus on rich people's lawns is pissing in the wind.

i cant imagine the Central Valley allowing Sacramento to restrict their water on almond trees which has expanded exponentially. I heard it takes thousands of gallons for 1 pound of nuts. it takes a lot to get lettuce and strawberries to grow in the desert too. We are not even allowed to mention rice production.

there is a difference between north and south. frankly most southern Californians don't give a "F#@€" about anything except their self absorbed world. they won't engage in the process and rarely show up except for a celebrate sighting to link themselves too.

LeeG
07-08-2015, 08:58 PM
what about ALL the other customers, which I was referring to... the huddled masses, as it were

As it were, indubitably, all of them together, individually and collectively, customers.

LeeG
07-08-2015, 09:02 PM
i cant imagine the Central Valley allowing Sacramento to restrict their water on almond trees which has expanded exponentially. I heard it takes thousands of gallons for 1 pound of nuts. it takes a lot to get lettuce and strawberries to grow in the desert too. We are not even allowed to mention rice production.

there is a difference between north and south. frankly most southern Californians don't give a "F#@€" about anything except their self absorbed world. they won't engage in the process and rarely show up except for a celebrate sighting to link themselves too.

Damn it Ted Southern Californians aren't sucking the water up it's the Central Valley. The folks in Marin and Hollywood aren't draining the aquifers. You want to jerk off to regional identity conflicts go for it but at least get the facts right.

ShagRock
07-08-2015, 09:12 PM
This season in Alberta, she's as hot and dry as a Texas pancake!

Ted Hoppe
07-08-2015, 11:23 PM
Damn it Ted Southern Californians aren't sucking the water up it's the Central Valley. The folks in Marin and Hollywood aren't draining the aquifers. You want to jerk off to regional identity conflicts go for it but at least get the facts right.

Water wars have been happening for a long time. who is sponsoring the idea to drain the Sacramento River and build an another aqueduct to steal from the delta water shed? Clearly it isn't The coastal cities of Northern California. I have changed my yard as all of my neighbors to face the reality - I don't see or hear about too many changing theirs to stop watering from kern county or below.

Phillip Allen
07-08-2015, 11:27 PM
Water wars have been happening for a long time. who is sponsoring the idea to drain the Sacramento River and build an another aqueduct to steal from the delta water shed? Clearly it isn't The coastal cities of Northern California. I have changed my yard to face the reality - I don't see or hear about too many changing theirs to stop watering from kern county or below.

I have an idea... outlaw lawn mowers!

LeeG
07-08-2015, 11:29 PM
Water wars have been happening for a long time. who is sponsoring the idea to drain the Sacramento River and build an another aqueduct to steal from the delta water shed? Clearly it isn't The coastal cities of Northern California. I have changed my yard to face the reality - I don't see or hear about too many changing theirs to stop watering from kern county or below.

Zactly, Jerry seems to be kicking the can down the road. The focus on municipal water use is misguided.

ShagRock
07-08-2015, 11:34 PM
I have an idea... outlaw lawn mowers!

How about getting serious and outlawing lawns.

Waddie
07-09-2015, 12:53 AM
Could we replace the produce being raised in the Central Valley somewhere else? Is there another region that could pick up the slack? Then, after we've banned what they now grow, what marketable crops could be sustainably grown there? I'd like to see a plan if anyone has one.

BTW; I remember seeing a documentary about a California city that built an ocean water de-salinization plant to alleviate their water problems, but I can't remember the name of the city.

regards,
Waddie

Mad Scientist
07-09-2015, 07:00 PM
...BTW; I remember seeing a documentary about a California city that built an ocean water de-salinization plant to alleviate their water problems, but I can't remember the name of the city...

I can't remember the city, either.
IIRC, the desalination plant proved prohibitively expensive to operate, so it has never been used, except for a few test runs. I'm sure somebody else will correct me on this, and give the details.

Tom

LeeG
07-09-2015, 08:46 PM
Could we replace the produce being raised in the Central Valley somewhere else? Is there another region that could pick up the slack? Then, after we've banned what they now grow, what marketable crops could be sustainably grown there? I'd like to see a plan if anyone has one.

BTW; I remember seeing a documentary about a California city that built an ocean water de-salinization plant to alleviate their water problems, but I can't remember the name of the city.

regards,
Waddie
"Replace", a reduction isn't replacement, you won't starve if you get less Ca. alfalfa or almonds and more grapes or broccoli. The U.S. Gov't subsidizes high water use consumption crops that ends up draining aquifers when irrigation from rainfall is inadequate. Destroying aquifers so inefficient water practices suited to 100yrs ago can continue makes no sense.

Breakaway
07-09-2015, 08:54 PM
I can't remember the city, either. IIRC, the desalination plant proved prohibitively expensive to operate, so it has never been used, except for a few test runs. I'm sure somebody else will correct me on this, and give the details. Tom

I m pretty sure Aruba has been using a desalination plant since the 1970s.

Kevin

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Mad Scientist
07-10-2015, 05:55 PM
I m pretty sure Aruba has been using a desalination plant since the 1970s.

Kevin

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Ah, yes - I'd forgotten about Aruba. They've converted to 100% Sea Water Reverse Osmosis technology, as of this year.

Tom

Mad Scientist
07-10-2015, 06:05 PM
I did a little research - Santa Barbara is reopening its desalination plant, which was mothballed in the 1990's after just four months in operation. Story here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/california-drought-forces-santa-barbara-to-reopen-mothballed-desalination-plant-1.3045799
And there's a huge plant being built in Carlsbad. Story here: http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_25859513/nations-largest-ocean-desalination-plant-goes-up-near
It's an expensive way to get potable water, but even expensive water is better than NO water.

Tom

LeeG
07-10-2015, 07:23 PM
Imagine if people HAD to buy bottled water.