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View Full Version : In search of the perfect outboard...opinions?



JMAC
02-20-2001, 05:00 PM
I inquired about finding a seagull a while back. Seems like people love them and also joke about the blue cloud and the oil slick. What I need is something that will move my 23'centerboard sloop around when the wind won't. Also, it has an outboard motor well that wouldn't allow for the motor to be raised out of the water when not in use. Is this a major disadvantage or just one more minor inconvenience?

JMAC
02-20-2001, 05:00 PM
I inquired about finding a seagull a while back. Seems like people love them and also joke about the blue cloud and the oil slick. What I need is something that will move my 23'centerboard sloop around when the wind won't. Also, it has an outboard motor well that wouldn't allow for the motor to be raised out of the water when not in use. Is this a major disadvantage or just one more minor inconvenience?

JMAC
02-20-2001, 05:00 PM
I inquired about finding a seagull a while back. Seems like people love them and also joke about the blue cloud and the oil slick. What I need is something that will move my 23'centerboard sloop around when the wind won't. Also, it has an outboard motor well that wouldn't allow for the motor to be raised out of the water when not in use. Is this a major disadvantage or just one more minor inconvenience?

Todd Bradshaw
02-20-2001, 06:07 PM
On a small boat like that, I think dragging an outboard through the water while under sail would be considered a major disadvantage. Hope it at least has an anchor well so you don't have to drag that, too! - just kidding...

Some of the boats like Ultimate 20's and Melges 24's use small, 2-4 hp outboards that they remove while sailing and stick down in the cuddy. If you can't find some sort of bracket that gets it clear of the water, it might be an option, though it certainly isn't always convenient.

Todd Bradshaw
02-20-2001, 06:07 PM
On a small boat like that, I think dragging an outboard through the water while under sail would be considered a major disadvantage. Hope it at least has an anchor well so you don't have to drag that, too! - just kidding...

Some of the boats like Ultimate 20's and Melges 24's use small, 2-4 hp outboards that they remove while sailing and stick down in the cuddy. If you can't find some sort of bracket that gets it clear of the water, it might be an option, though it certainly isn't always convenient.

Todd Bradshaw
02-20-2001, 06:07 PM
On a small boat like that, I think dragging an outboard through the water while under sail would be considered a major disadvantage. Hope it at least has an anchor well so you don't have to drag that, too! - just kidding...

Some of the boats like Ultimate 20's and Melges 24's use small, 2-4 hp outboards that they remove while sailing and stick down in the cuddy. If you can't find some sort of bracket that gets it clear of the water, it might be an option, though it certainly isn't always convenient.

J. Dillon
02-20-2001, 06:32 PM
Make a Yuloh. No gas, no fuss, no pollution. It uses muscle power and it will last as long or probably longer than your boat. http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/wink.gif JD

J. Dillon
02-20-2001, 06:32 PM
Make a Yuloh. No gas, no fuss, no pollution. It uses muscle power and it will last as long or probably longer than your boat. http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/wink.gif JD

J. Dillon
02-20-2001, 06:32 PM
Make a Yuloh. No gas, no fuss, no pollution. It uses muscle power and it will last as long or probably longer than your boat. http://media5.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/wink.gif JD

John B
02-20-2001, 07:27 PM
There is a weight threshold at 3.5 horsepower. The 2 and 3 hp outboards are all basically the same but close to double the weight when you get to the 4 hp models.The 3.5 motors are hotted up 2's.(bigger jets and other arcane things)
I was told that all the small motors are made in a couple of plants in Asia and the larger ones in the country of origin.Thus our mercury, Johnson, evinrude etc 2 or 3 hp motors are from Taiwan or China or Malaysia.You might be different in the States but I suspect not. Often the motors are the same guts with different brand covers depending on the deal done.

We used to shove Waione ( about 6.5 tons) with a 2 and then a 3 hp, by leaving the motor on the dinghy and barging .You need 2 painters and an aft breast line on the dinghy but once it's set up, no sweat. Only any good when it's glass conditions ,of course. Did that for about 7 years.
A possible for you anyway. They are better attached to the boat.

John B
02-20-2001, 07:27 PM
There is a weight threshold at 3.5 horsepower. The 2 and 3 hp outboards are all basically the same but close to double the weight when you get to the 4 hp models.The 3.5 motors are hotted up 2's.(bigger jets and other arcane things)
I was told that all the small motors are made in a couple of plants in Asia and the larger ones in the country of origin.Thus our mercury, Johnson, evinrude etc 2 or 3 hp motors are from Taiwan or China or Malaysia.You might be different in the States but I suspect not. Often the motors are the same guts with different brand covers depending on the deal done.

We used to shove Waione ( about 6.5 tons) with a 2 and then a 3 hp, by leaving the motor on the dinghy and barging .You need 2 painters and an aft breast line on the dinghy but once it's set up, no sweat. Only any good when it's glass conditions ,of course. Did that for about 7 years.
A possible for you anyway. They are better attached to the boat.

John B
02-20-2001, 07:27 PM
There is a weight threshold at 3.5 horsepower. The 2 and 3 hp outboards are all basically the same but close to double the weight when you get to the 4 hp models.The 3.5 motors are hotted up 2's.(bigger jets and other arcane things)
I was told that all the small motors are made in a couple of plants in Asia and the larger ones in the country of origin.Thus our mercury, Johnson, evinrude etc 2 or 3 hp motors are from Taiwan or China or Malaysia.You might be different in the States but I suspect not. Often the motors are the same guts with different brand covers depending on the deal done.

We used to shove Waione ( about 6.5 tons) with a 2 and then a 3 hp, by leaving the motor on the dinghy and barging .You need 2 painters and an aft breast line on the dinghy but once it's set up, no sweat. Only any good when it's glass conditions ,of course. Did that for about 7 years.
A possible for you anyway. They are better attached to the boat.

Mitchel Larsen
02-20-2001, 07:29 PM
What about an electric trolling motor? I have a 30 some odd pound thrust unit on my 23' SONAR and it moves it well enough. Also the motor has a vertical sliding adjustment that would allow it to snug up close to the hull-( if not completely out of the water). They are also available in greater thrust units though at the expense of taking on more battery ballast.

Mitchel Larsen
02-20-2001, 07:29 PM
What about an electric trolling motor? I have a 30 some odd pound thrust unit on my 23' SONAR and it moves it well enough. Also the motor has a vertical sliding adjustment that would allow it to snug up close to the hull-( if not completely out of the water). They are also available in greater thrust units though at the expense of taking on more battery ballast.

Mitchel Larsen
02-20-2001, 07:29 PM
What about an electric trolling motor? I have a 30 some odd pound thrust unit on my 23' SONAR and it moves it well enough. Also the motor has a vertical sliding adjustment that would allow it to snug up close to the hull-( if not completely out of the water). They are also available in greater thrust units though at the expense of taking on more battery ballast.

ishmael
02-20-2001, 07:48 PM
Like everything else, depends. If you don't expect the motor to power you into a current, or strong wind (sail that bastard!), or for longer periods with a detached tank, a smaller motor that can be attached and de... on demand, would be the way to go. Something in the three horse range would seem right. Just know, it will only get you in an out of harbor/slip, without much working against you. The smallest older seagulls would do the job, but they are primitive, smelly, smoky, noisy beasts. But, if you aint gonna be running it much...A newer option would be the small four, or for that matter, for lighter weight, two cycles. That's what I'd do, find a newer Nissan et al. Likely long shaft. Mega quieter, less smoke etc.

Best of luck, Jack

ishmael
02-20-2001, 07:48 PM
Like everything else, depends. If you don't expect the motor to power you into a current, or strong wind (sail that bastard!), or for longer periods with a detached tank, a smaller motor that can be attached and de... on demand, would be the way to go. Something in the three horse range would seem right. Just know, it will only get you in an out of harbor/slip, without much working against you. The smallest older seagulls would do the job, but they are primitive, smelly, smoky, noisy beasts. But, if you aint gonna be running it much...A newer option would be the small four, or for that matter, for lighter weight, two cycles. That's what I'd do, find a newer Nissan et al. Likely long shaft. Mega quieter, less smoke etc.

Best of luck, Jack

ishmael
02-20-2001, 07:48 PM
Like everything else, depends. If you don't expect the motor to power you into a current, or strong wind (sail that bastard!), or for longer periods with a detached tank, a smaller motor that can be attached and de... on demand, would be the way to go. Something in the three horse range would seem right. Just know, it will only get you in an out of harbor/slip, without much working against you. The smallest older seagulls would do the job, but they are primitive, smelly, smoky, noisy beasts. But, if you aint gonna be running it much...A newer option would be the small four, or for that matter, for lighter weight, two cycles. That's what I'd do, find a newer Nissan et al. Likely long shaft. Mega quieter, less smoke etc.

Best of luck, Jack

rbgarr
02-20-2001, 09:02 PM
JMAC-

I use a 1960's era 3hp Johnson with a folding leg and high thrust propellor on a side bracket for my 30' sloop when the wind gives out. It folds into a tidy and well balanced package that I can secure forward with the bracket when sailing.

It sounds like you could use one of those engines in your well and fold the leg up out of the water when you don't need it. You might want to fit a piece in the bottom of your well to keep water out of the open outboard leg when it's folded. They come up for auction on eBay.com from time to time under the 'Sporting Goods:Boating' subcategory. You could search for 'johnson evinrude 3 folding' in the search function to see what they've been selling for in the past and decide if they are in your price range. If so, you can use their 'Notify Me" function to be e-mailed when they come up for auction.

Good luck!

[This message has been edited by rbgarr (edited 02-20-2001).]

rbgarr
02-20-2001, 09:02 PM
JMAC-

I use a 1960's era 3hp Johnson with a folding leg and high thrust propellor on a side bracket for my 30' sloop when the wind gives out. It folds into a tidy and well balanced package that I can secure forward with the bracket when sailing.

It sounds like you could use one of those engines in your well and fold the leg up out of the water when you don't need it. You might want to fit a piece in the bottom of your well to keep water out of the open outboard leg when it's folded. They come up for auction on eBay.com from time to time under the 'Sporting Goods:Boating' subcategory. You could search for 'johnson evinrude 3 folding' in the search function to see what they've been selling for in the past and decide if they are in your price range. If so, you can use their 'Notify Me" function to be e-mailed when they come up for auction.

Good luck!

[This message has been edited by rbgarr (edited 02-20-2001).]

rbgarr
02-20-2001, 09:02 PM
JMAC-

I use a 1960's era 3hp Johnson with a folding leg and high thrust propellor on a side bracket for my 30' sloop when the wind gives out. It folds into a tidy and well balanced package that I can secure forward with the bracket when sailing.

It sounds like you could use one of those engines in your well and fold the leg up out of the water when you don't need it. You might want to fit a piece in the bottom of your well to keep water out of the open outboard leg when it's folded. They come up for auction on eBay.com from time to time under the 'Sporting Goods:Boating' subcategory. You could search for 'johnson evinrude 3 folding' in the search function to see what they've been selling for in the past and decide if they are in your price range. If so, you can use their 'Notify Me" function to be e-mailed when they come up for auction.

Good luck!

[This message has been edited by rbgarr (edited 02-20-2001).]

ishmael
02-20-2001, 09:25 PM
Jeez rbgarr, I want one of those! A high thrust prop, AND a folding leg. By high thrust, do you mean a large low pitch bugger, geared down? Now why don't they make 'em like that anymore?

Seriously, I'd like to hear more. I've got a five horse Nissan 'chainsaw' on the transom of my Drascombe Lugger, and would love to find some refinement in the equation.

ishmael
02-20-2001, 09:25 PM
Jeez rbgarr, I want one of those! A high thrust prop, AND a folding leg. By high thrust, do you mean a large low pitch bugger, geared down? Now why don't they make 'em like that anymore?

Seriously, I'd like to hear more. I've got a five horse Nissan 'chainsaw' on the transom of my Drascombe Lugger, and would love to find some refinement in the equation.

ishmael
02-20-2001, 09:25 PM
Jeez rbgarr, I want one of those! A high thrust prop, AND a folding leg. By high thrust, do you mean a large low pitch bugger, geared down? Now why don't they make 'em like that anymore?

Seriously, I'd like to hear more. I've got a five horse Nissan 'chainsaw' on the transom of my Drascombe Lugger, and would love to find some refinement in the equation.

Dale Harvey
02-20-2001, 09:46 PM
"Good" and "outboard" just don't go together.If you could modify one of the currently produced "dragontails" that utilize a 4 stroke aircooled, so that it folded, and mount it on a pipe through the afterdeck, you might have something. Older OMC products were the longest lived, but its hard to strike a balance between and old breaker point ignition engine with no charge coils, and a newer model with electronics, charger, electric start, and lousey bearings. I have a six horse Johnson sailmaster that always seems to run, about late seventies early eighties. Have a pair of newer 9.9s that are a royal pain and will only start with electric. Stay away from anything that has a plastic carburator or a Japanese carburator, both are trouble.

Dale Harvey
02-20-2001, 09:46 PM
"Good" and "outboard" just don't go together.If you could modify one of the currently produced "dragontails" that utilize a 4 stroke aircooled, so that it folded, and mount it on a pipe through the afterdeck, you might have something. Older OMC products were the longest lived, but its hard to strike a balance between and old breaker point ignition engine with no charge coils, and a newer model with electronics, charger, electric start, and lousey bearings. I have a six horse Johnson sailmaster that always seems to run, about late seventies early eighties. Have a pair of newer 9.9s that are a royal pain and will only start with electric. Stay away from anything that has a plastic carburator or a Japanese carburator, both are trouble.

Dale Harvey
02-20-2001, 09:46 PM
"Good" and "outboard" just don't go together.If you could modify one of the currently produced "dragontails" that utilize a 4 stroke aircooled, so that it folded, and mount it on a pipe through the afterdeck, you might have something. Older OMC products were the longest lived, but its hard to strike a balance between and old breaker point ignition engine with no charge coils, and a newer model with electronics, charger, electric start, and lousey bearings. I have a six horse Johnson sailmaster that always seems to run, about late seventies early eighties. Have a pair of newer 9.9s that are a royal pain and will only start with electric. Stay away from anything that has a plastic carburator or a Japanese carburator, both are trouble.

Dale Genther
02-20-2001, 09:57 PM
I have a Honda 2 hp 4-stroke outboard. Has so far been totally reliable. It is a bit heavier (26 pounds, I think)than a 2 hp 2-stroke would be. On the plus side it is quieter, does not smoke, gets great gas milage, does not need premix oil/fuel. It also seem to put out the same thrust as friends motor's that are 3.5 to 4 hp 2-strokes

Dale Genther
02-20-2001, 09:57 PM
I have a Honda 2 hp 4-stroke outboard. Has so far been totally reliable. It is a bit heavier (26 pounds, I think)than a 2 hp 2-stroke would be. On the plus side it is quieter, does not smoke, gets great gas milage, does not need premix oil/fuel. It also seem to put out the same thrust as friends motor's that are 3.5 to 4 hp 2-strokes

Dale Genther
02-20-2001, 09:57 PM
I have a Honda 2 hp 4-stroke outboard. Has so far been totally reliable. It is a bit heavier (26 pounds, I think)than a 2 hp 2-stroke would be. On the plus side it is quieter, does not smoke, gets great gas milage, does not need premix oil/fuel. It also seem to put out the same thrust as friends motor's that are 3.5 to 4 hp 2-strokes

John B
02-21-2001, 02:56 PM
Tony has put his finger on it. I've hammered a mariner 2 and a mercury 3. ( 9 years out of the first one before it started to develop seagull habits).
A wise friend of mine wanted to buy a 2 hp motor so he went around a few business' that use em. Bumper boats and the like. Got a recommendation from some of the operators. I think it was suzuki back then that was causing the least trouble. I admired the reasoning though. A bit like asking a Taxi driver what milage/problems he and his mates are getting out of a particular model car.
First you have to decide what hp you want though.

John B
02-21-2001, 02:56 PM
Tony has put his finger on it. I've hammered a mariner 2 and a mercury 3. ( 9 years out of the first one before it started to develop seagull habits).
A wise friend of mine wanted to buy a 2 hp motor so he went around a few business' that use em. Bumper boats and the like. Got a recommendation from some of the operators. I think it was suzuki back then that was causing the least trouble. I admired the reasoning though. A bit like asking a Taxi driver what milage/problems he and his mates are getting out of a particular model car.
First you have to decide what hp you want though.

John B
02-21-2001, 02:56 PM
Tony has put his finger on it. I've hammered a mariner 2 and a mercury 3. ( 9 years out of the first one before it started to develop seagull habits).
A wise friend of mine wanted to buy a 2 hp motor so he went around a few business' that use em. Bumper boats and the like. Got a recommendation from some of the operators. I think it was suzuki back then that was causing the least trouble. I admired the reasoning though. A bit like asking a Taxi driver what milage/problems he and his mates are getting out of a particular model car.
First you have to decide what hp you want though.

John058
02-21-2001, 09:49 PM
...the Evinrude/Johnson 3hp models of the mid to late 50's and through the 60/70's are hard to beat...they even made long shaft and folding shaft models...can hoist 'em up with one hand...only weakness is the magneto coils in the older ones tend to crystalize their shells and need replacing with the later types...mine even ran with the coils all busted to heck...wouldn't give full power so I tore it down and discovered the mess under the flywheel...it's a wonder it ran at all...mine's a '56 vintage and expect to get many more years outa' it...

John058
02-21-2001, 09:49 PM
...the Evinrude/Johnson 3hp models of the mid to late 50's and through the 60/70's are hard to beat...they even made long shaft and folding shaft models...can hoist 'em up with one hand...only weakness is the magneto coils in the older ones tend to crystalize their shells and need replacing with the later types...mine even ran with the coils all busted to heck...wouldn't give full power so I tore it down and discovered the mess under the flywheel...it's a wonder it ran at all...mine's a '56 vintage and expect to get many more years outa' it...

John058
02-21-2001, 09:49 PM
...the Evinrude/Johnson 3hp models of the mid to late 50's and through the 60/70's are hard to beat...they even made long shaft and folding shaft models...can hoist 'em up with one hand...only weakness is the magneto coils in the older ones tend to crystalize their shells and need replacing with the later types...mine even ran with the coils all busted to heck...wouldn't give full power so I tore it down and discovered the mess under the flywheel...it's a wonder it ran at all...mine's a '56 vintage and expect to get many more years outa' it...

TerryH
02-22-2001, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by John058:
...the Evinrude/Johnson 3hp models of the mid to late 50's and through the 60/70's are hard to beat...they even made long shaft and folding shaft models...can hoist 'em up with one hand...only weakness is the magneto coils in the older ones tend to crystalize their shells and need replacing with the later types...mine even ran with the coils all busted to heck...wouldn't give full power so I tore it down and discovered the mess under the flywheel...it's a wonder it ran at all...mine's a '56 vintage and expect to get many more years outa' it...

TerryH
02-22-2001, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by John058:
...the Evinrude/Johnson 3hp models of the mid to late 50's and through the 60/70's are hard to beat...they even made long shaft and folding shaft models...can hoist 'em up with one hand...only weakness is the magneto coils in the older ones tend to crystalize their shells and need replacing with the later types...mine even ran with the coils all busted to heck...wouldn't give full power so I tore it down and discovered the mess under the flywheel...it's a wonder it ran at all...mine's a '56 vintage and expect to get many more years outa' it...

TerryH
02-22-2001, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by John058:
...the Evinrude/Johnson 3hp models of the mid to late 50's and through the 60/70's are hard to beat...they even made long shaft and folding shaft models...can hoist 'em up with one hand...only weakness is the magneto coils in the older ones tend to crystalize their shells and need replacing with the later types...mine even ran with the coils all busted to heck...wouldn't give full power so I tore it down and discovered the mess under the flywheel...it's a wonder it ran at all...mine's a '56 vintage and expect to get many more years outa' it...