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View Full Version : Moratorium on the south-bashing, please?



bamamick
06-21-2015, 09:19 AM
As BROTM I would like to make this one and only and final request: can we stop with this for about a week, at least? If this was all initiated by the Charleston shootings I understand, but South Carolina is hardly alone in dealing with this problem. We are all Americans (those of us who are :) ). This is a national tragedy just like Colorado and Connecticut, and whereas those were 'individual' issues a lot of people here seem to think that there are 'regional' reasons as to why this idiot murdered those poor people. And I find that extremely offensive and somewhat na´ve.

So please, just give it a rest until the end of this month. Then you can start it back up again and by then maybe a few wounds will have healed, but this constant barrage of negativity towards my home has gotten way beyond old, and if it continues will most likely cause this forum to lose some contributing members.

Mickey Lake

Reynard38
06-21-2015, 09:29 AM
Thank you Mick.
I do enjoy reading many of the stories in the Bilge. There are some good insights here that I would most likely not find elsewhere.
And I will admit that reading many posts here from those who have a very different political and social mindset has broadened my thinking. Thank you.
But I agree. There seems to be a true hatred towards my home, and has me thinking of moving exclusively to the upper decks.

Paul Pless
06-21-2015, 09:44 AM
Well that ain't gonna happen Mickey. First there's far too many trolls and flamers here. Then there are a number of folks too driven by their political agenda and the smell of blood in the water to let it go. And to fair, the Emanuel AME story is as important to discuss as is anything else in the news right now. What I'd like to see though is a recognition that racism is not just a Southern problem, and that its pervasive throughout the United States and elsewhere. Further that we move beyond 'the history lessons' and have a discussion focused on how to repair the problem. Fwiw, neither of the things that I want to see are gonna happen either. Fact is the bilge is the bilge and you gotta take the good with the bad. . .

bamamick
06-21-2015, 09:46 AM
Yeah. I know all of that. I just figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. :)

Mickey Lake

elf
06-21-2015, 10:05 AM
It is important to keep in mind that the word for black is etymologically also the word for evil, bad and negative. The idea that the prejudice and bigotry of the white-skinned european is something uniquely evident in the culture of the most consistently immigrant-based nation on earth is belied by any study of the history of any of the nations of northern Europe.

The tragedy of the bigotry of the citizens of the United States can be seen wherever white-skinned people emigrated or did business. Sadly we are not unique just because of our tradition of being a melting pot.

Ian McColgin
06-21-2015, 10:48 AM
I do not think it south bashing when a southerner tries to pass of a race crime as "anti-Christian."

StevenBauer
06-21-2015, 11:10 AM
Let's simmer down on the North, East and West bashing, too. Wouldn't it be great if we could all follow the number one Forum Rule and just be nice.


Steven

bamamick
06-21-2015, 11:16 AM
Thank you, Mr. Bauer. You are a good guy.

Mickey Lake

Paul Pless
06-21-2015, 11:25 AM
Let's simmer down on the North, East and West bashing, too. Wouldn't it be great if we could all follow the number one Forum Rule and just be nice.


Steven

How bout we United Statesians should focus are bashing on Canada and Australia this week. . . :D

Reynard38
06-21-2015, 11:27 AM
Now that I could go for! ;)

Harry Miller
06-21-2015, 11:49 AM
Bring it on

bobbys
06-21-2015, 11:51 AM
I did my part starting a gun/ cougar thread.

Keith Wilson
06-21-2015, 12:07 PM
Sure, I'm more than glad to comply with the requests of our esteemed BROTM. To clarify a little, my intent in the various threads was not to 'bash' the south of today at all. I wanted to make a couple of historical points about the origins of the Civil War and what happened afterwards, and to correct what I see as historical misconceptions - but that was a long time ago, and things are very different now. Racism is by no means exclusive to the south, and I'd bet that today it's not even significantly more common there. Old-time blatant racism is now confined to fringe wackos, and is completely unacceptable everywhere. The more subtle variety is pretty evenly distributed. The south has its problems, - but so does every place inhabited by human beings. Looking for the traces of history, one can find it far more clearly in southern attitudes toward centralization and federal power than in racial issues.

Domesticated_Mr. Know It All
06-21-2015, 12:20 PM
I hear ya Mick.
I'm sure I can do that.

CWSmith
06-21-2015, 12:22 PM
Don't you think the south-bashing would be diminished if the south admitted that flying the confederate flag needs to end and why? Isn't at least some of the bashing due to continued offensive behavior and for good reason?

And isn't it also true that the confederate flag is a traditional and ongoing symbol of "state's rights" and a rejection of the federal government? Don't you think that deserves to be addressed as well?

I don't think this so-called south bashing is without provocation; but I also don't think that the south has a monopoly on racism or anti-government views.

Lew Barrett
06-21-2015, 12:22 PM
I'm moving to Tennessee :D

Tom Hunter
06-21-2015, 12:31 PM
I hope I've never come across as south bashing on any thread I've posted on. It's a remarkable region with great food, culture and people. It has some really nice boats.

But in New England we have even nicer boats...

Memphis Mike
06-21-2015, 12:31 PM
The damn yankees are just jealous because we have the best food, music, and the prettiest women.

Paul Pless
06-21-2015, 12:40 PM
Don't you think the south-bashing would be diminished if the south admitted that flying the confederate flag needs to end and why?
it seems the loudest defenders of flying the stars and bars here on this forum are kmac, ronw - none of whom are southerners

no southerner on this forum to my knowledge(reynard, bamamick, margo, memphis,phillip, oznabrag, cs, peb, myself) have defended its being flown and for the most part i think we all have called for it to be taken down, especially over govt buildings. . .

StevenBauer
06-21-2015, 12:43 PM
As BROTM I would like to make this one and only and final request: ...

Mickey Lake

I do believe as BROTM you can make as many requests as you'd like. Keep 'em coming.


Steven

oznabrag
06-21-2015, 12:58 PM
I'm moving to Tennessee :D

Excellent choice!


I hope I've never come across as south bashing on any thread I've posted on. It's a remarkable region with great food, culture and people. It has some really nice boats.

But in New England we have even nicer boats...

I hope so, too.

I was born in Alabama, and have lived in Louisiana, Georgia, North Carolina, Mississippi and Texas.

Never taken up residence North of Mason-Dixon.




it seems the loudest defenders of flying the stars and bars here on this forum are kmac, ronw, and bobbys - none of whom are southerners

no southerner on this forum to my knowledge(reynard, bamamick, margo, memphis,phillip, oznabrag, cs, peb, myself) have defended its being flown and for the most part i think we all have called for it to be taken down, especially over govt buildings. . .


Actually, Paul, I think this really speaks directly to the point of my thread.

The war was against Slavery, which was pretty much geographically limited to the South. If the North could have made money on slavery, they would have been all over it.

The racism necessary to support slavery was alive and well in the North, they just lacked the climate.

What happened then was that the North won the war, slavery was abolished, and the South was hung with the albatross of racism, allowing the North to pretend to the moral high ground.

The pretenders are still at it, and the virulent racism that sparked the lethal violence when Boston integrated its schools lives on unabated.

The same racist violence that kept the residents of Ferguson, MO in the control of a racist police department/city government is alive and well all across this Nation PRECISELY BECAUSE NO ONE IN POWER WANTS/WANTED TO DESTROY IT.

Racism is a very useful tool for controlling populations.

Lew Barrett
06-21-2015, 01:22 PM
I agree. But I'll add it's become so ingrained in our fabric that it crosses over into tradition for a lot of people.

CWSmith
06-21-2015, 01:27 PM
it seems the loudest defenders of flying the stars and bars here on this forum are kmac, ronw, and bobbys - none of whom are southerners

no southerner on this forum to my knowledge(reynard, bamamick, margo, memphis,phillip, oznabrag, cs, peb, myself) have defended its being flown and for the most part i think we all have called for it to be taken down, especially over govt buildings. . .

I suspect you are right. Good or bad, The Bilge is a sounding board for what we see and hear outside. People bring their complaints here to discuss. I think that some of the "south bashing" here is in response to what we see and here on the outside and not an internal debate.

bobbys
06-21-2015, 01:28 PM
it seems the loudest defenders of flying the stars and bars here on this forum are kmac, ronw, and bobbys - none of whom are southerners

no southerner on this forum to my knowledge(reynard, bamamick, margo, memphis,phillip, oznabrag, cs, peb, myself) have defended its being flown and for the most part i think we all have called for it to be taken down, especially over govt buildings. . .
.

For the record I have never advocated flying the stars and bars over a govemeant building, I think that is wrong and offensive., Anyone going in to pay taxes of do business should only have to see the merican flag .

Im not sure you have read what I wrote..

However Im not into the south bashing or trying to link the confederacy with the present day republicans..

People from the south also had their people die..

Paul Pless
06-21-2015, 01:37 PM
.

For the record I have never advocated flying the stars and bars over a govemeant building, I think that is wrong and offensive., Anyone going in to pay taxes of do business should only have to see the merican flag .

Im not sure you have read what I wrote..

However Im not into the south bashing or trying to link the confederacy with the present day republicans..

People from the south also had their people die..Bobby, my apologies. I'll go back and edit my post.

Ian McColgin
06-21-2015, 01:46 PM
" . . . or trying to link the confederacy with the present day republicans." [#24]

Does the Confederacy link to any political party today, to the KKK when founded or today, or to all the regional nostalgia about the cause that was lost? Was Nixon's "Southern strategy" a delusion or a failure?

James McMullen
06-21-2015, 01:49 PM
The first step in getting better is learning how to take constructive criticism. There wouldn't be no south-bashing if there weren't so many deeply-rooted inherent social problems that are so obvious to those of us looking in from the outside. From obesity to wealth disparity to murder rates to religious and racial intolerance to environmental catastrophes, the South has more than its share. Getting all touchy and defensive doesn't help fix any of that. The North and the West and even my beloved PNW all have problems too, but there's no point in ignoring the issues and hoping they'll go away on their own. You've got to face that you've got a problem, southerners. Suck it up and deal with it.

Don't shoot the messenger. In fact, why don't you put the damn guns away for a bit, South. You'll get plenty of respect once you earn some. Get to work.

Phillip Allen
06-21-2015, 02:21 PM
I have a new neighbor... raised in Madrid though she was born in New York. her initials are KKK (Ms. King) and she has a shop in a small mall. she told me that occasionally, someone will come in and offer support from the local Ku Klux... it looks like Mr. Forest's creation is full of dummies :)

Paul Pless
06-21-2015, 02:26 PM
that was predictable james

Phillip Allen
06-21-2015, 02:33 PM
The first step in getting better is learning how to take constructive criticism. There wouldn't be no south-bashing if there weren't so many deeply-rooted inherent social problems that are so obvious to those of us looking in from the outside. From obesity to wealth disparity to murder rates to religious and racial intolerance to environmental catastrophes, the South has more than its share. Getting all touchy and defensive doesn't help fix any of that. The North and the West and even my beloved PNW all have problems too, but there's no point in ignoring the issues and hoping they'll go away on their own. You've got to face that you've got a problem, southerners. Suck it up and deal with it.

Don't shoot the messenger. In fact, why don't you put the damn guns away for a bit, South. You'll get plenty of respect once you earn some. Get to work.

messenger, forsooth! this is a case in point! even to the vague reference to looking down from above... Freudian

bamamick
06-21-2015, 02:35 PM
James, if it makes you feel any better, you can piss off.

Mickey Lake

Paul Pless
06-21-2015, 02:39 PM
The first step in getting better is learning how to take constructive criticism. the very first line was particularly humorous and flame worthy; this from the guy who after receiving a little bit heat for his own attitude upstairs runs and deletes his own threads

bobbys
06-21-2015, 02:39 PM
I think James did not get the title of the thread..

Maybe he thought moratorium Meant go on a rant about the south..


Well some are always campaigning for BROTM.

RonW
06-21-2015, 02:40 PM
Paul Pless; it seems the loudest defenders of flying the stars and bars here on this forum are kmac, ronw - none of whom are southerners[/B]

no southerner on this forum to my knowledge(reynard, bamamick, margo, memphis,phillip, oznabrag, cs, peb, myself) have defended its being flown and for the most part i think we all have called for it to be taken down, especially over govt buildings. . .

Well you might have got one out of 2 right, But I am positive you got the 2nd. one wrong.........Oh and I see that you let bobbys off the hook.........

I agree the southern bashing is unjustifiable, post # 27 is a good example.( northern aggression ) ..And for the record I say it is up to the people of the state to decide if they do or don't want to fly it.

Phillip Allen
06-21-2015, 02:45 PM
Well you might have got one out of 2 right, But I am positive you got the 2nd. one wrong.........Oh and I see that you let bobbys off the hook.........

I agree the southern bashing is unjustifiable, post # 27 is a good example...And for the record I say it is up to the people of the state to decide if they do or don't want to fly it.

some people always want central control of people... individualism is, ah, discouraged

RonW
06-21-2015, 02:50 PM
some people always want central control of people... individualism is, ah, discouraged

Strange that you should mention that Phillip, it seems to me our friends from the left felt that it was a state's right to grant gays marriage license, and if Massachussettes amd california wanted to grant them, then it is no one else"s business.........kinda strange how that works....
I guess it depends on if they approve of the action or not..

CWSmith
06-21-2015, 02:59 PM
I agree the southern bashing is unjustifiable, post # 27 is a good example...And for the record I say it is up to the people of the state to decide if they do or don't want to fly it.

If it is "up to the people of the state to decide if they do or don't want to fly it", the rest of us must be equally allowed to voice our opinion of what it says to the world. That means that "southern bashing" is not unjustifiable.

CK 17
06-21-2015, 03:09 PM
As a vegetarian, the food I miss most is southern food. Unequaled anywhere for mouth watering flavor.

oznabrag
06-21-2015, 03:45 PM
James, if it makes you feel any better, you can piss off.

Mickey Lake

+1.

Whether it makes him feel any better, or not.

Bobby of Tulsa
06-21-2015, 04:05 PM
James, if it makes you feel any better, you can piss off.

Mickey Lake That guy is an arrogant rooster carp Mickey, pay him no mind. If he needs help figgerin out what I am sayin I will help him with it.

Phillip Allen
06-21-2015, 04:10 PM
That guy is an arrogant rooster carp Mickey, pay him no mind. If he needs help figgerin out what I am sayin I will help him with it.

the trouble is that it's not so unusual an attitude toward the South

Curtism
06-21-2015, 05:30 PM
The first step in . . . (redacted due to wrong headed generalizations and vacuousness only fit for topsides consumption.)

Faaaaaarrrt!

seanz
06-21-2015, 05:39 PM
Mercy Sakes, Mr Lake! Pay no mind, nor heed the words of that most notorious troll "James McMullen". Whoever that individual is, they are a self-confessed troll and nogoodnik.


I shall say only nice things about the South for the rest of the month as the people on the forum from the South are all very nice indeed.
:)

Memphis Mike
06-21-2015, 06:09 PM
Mercy Sakes, Mr Lake! Pay no mind, nor heed the words of that most notorious troll "James McMullen". Whoever that individual is, they are a self-confessed troll and nogoodnik.


I shall say only nice things about the South for the rest of the month as the people on the forum from the South are all very nice indeed.
:)

I ain't nice to Yankees. They keep comin down here and stickin their noses in our bidness.

James McMullen
06-21-2015, 06:39 PM
. . . it's not so unusual an attitude toward the South
And why is that, hmm?
Deflect, deny, and get defensive all you want. I didn't invent that common and ubiquitous attitude. It's not new. But I'm sure it's because everyone else is wrong and out of step, and it's not anything y'all need to be introspective about. You just keep doing what yer doing, and eventually everyone else will realize they were wrong to criticize all the ignorance, bigotry, and murderin'.

Dave Wright
06-21-2015, 07:07 PM
I really like Savannah. No complaints about that place from me. Oglethorpe was opposed to slavery too.

Chip-skiff
06-21-2015, 07:40 PM
Not sure why some southern folks are such jingo missionaries. They won't have anything but southern food (deep-fried, breaded, fatty, sugary, drenched in sauce) and listen to naught but southern music (Allmans, Skynyrd, pseudo country, Texican, etc.) While I like them as persons, I get tired of the whole south-centric thing.

It's as if they're confined by geography, unable to see out.

Memphis Mike
06-21-2015, 07:42 PM
And why is that, hmm?
Deflect, deny, and get defensive all you want. I didn't invent that common and ubiquitous attitude. It's not new. But I'm sure it's because everyone else is wrong and out of step, and it's not anything y'all need to be introspective about. You just keep doing what yer doing, and eventually everyone else will realize they were wrong to criticize all the ignorance, bigotry, and murderin'.

Damn Yankee.

Memphis Mike
06-21-2015, 07:47 PM
Not sure why some southern folks are such jingo missionaries. They won't have anything but southern food (deep-fried, breaded, fatty, sugary, drenched in sauce) and listen to naught but southern music (Allmans, Skynyrd, pseudo country, Texican, etc.) While I like them as persons, I get tired of the whole south-centric thing.

It's as if they're confined by geography, unable to see out.

Screw that. I like Hank The Third and Jesco.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rP2rofuqPE

Ian McColgin
06-21-2015, 07:59 PM
And even here, the South borrows some northern urban tap rather than show-casing the amazing clog of the likes of Walton Goggins.

Paul Pless
06-21-2015, 08:05 PM
southern rock


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvf6FsSnjg

Memphis Mike
06-21-2015, 08:16 PM
And even here, the South borrows some northern urban tap rather than show-casing the amazing clog of the likes of Walton Goggins.

Dude that form of dancing was not borrowed from anywhere up North. It originated in West "By God" Virginia. Del Ray White, Jesco's daddy (rip) was the first to perform like that. If he got it from somewhere, it would be the Irish coal miners that came to that area to mine coal.

Memphis Mike
06-21-2015, 08:17 PM
There's damn Yankees and then there's just plain dumb Yankees.

Phillip Allen
06-21-2015, 09:21 PM
Not sure why some southern folks are such jingo missionaries. They won't have anything but southern food (deep-fried, breaded, fatty, sugary, drenched in sauce) and listen to naught but southern music (Allmans, Skynyrd, pseudo country, Texican, etc.) While I like them as persons, I get tired of the whole south-centric thing.

It's as if they're confined by geography, unable to see out.
it's culture... we have it... you don't

another way to say it is: you have cultural events... we have culture

Reynard38
06-21-2015, 09:36 PM
Another southern dance style that most likely evolved from Scot-Irish roots.


http://youtu.be/8l5pczCZw04

Chip-skiff
06-21-2015, 10:02 PM
it's culture... we have it... you don't

another way to say it is: you have cultural events... we have culture

Perfect illustration of my point. I have earth and water.

You have a mud puddle. So wallow in it, y'all.

Memphis Mike
06-21-2015, 10:13 PM
To be honest, I've never met a yankee that had any smarts. All of them are quite stupid. JMHO.

Chip-skiff
06-21-2015, 10:16 PM
To be honest, I've never met a yankee that had any smarts. All of them are quite stupid. JMHO.

To be honest, almost everything you say is garbage, and that is nuclear waste. :d

seanz
06-21-2015, 10:19 PM
Musical interlude for the slanging match.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEi4e87jSJA




Just fer the reccerd, none of youse nose nuthin bout been Southern.

David G
06-21-2015, 10:33 PM
The damn yankees are just jealous because we have the best food, music, and the prettiest women.


I ain't nice to Yankees. They keep comin down here and stickin their noses in our bidness.


Damn Yankee.


There's damn Yankees and then there's just plain dumb Yankees.


To be honest, I've never met a yankee that had any smarts. All of them are quite stupid. JMHO.

Hmmmm... yes, this South-bashing is getting really tedious. I'm glad there are some here who will step forward and remind us to be civil.


I've held off on commenting here, because I was a bit confused. So I PM'd the OP, asking him what comments he regarded as South-bashing, and - more particularly... if any of those comments were from me. If I engaged in baseless trashing of that region - which, no doubt, has much to recommend it - then I need to check myself. Maybe even apologize?

But the OP, though he has been around in the almost 8 hourse since I sent the PM, has not chosen to answer. So I'll ask the question more generally. What comments did y'all find offensive, or egregiously critical? Or perhaps - what comments did you regard as tarring the entire region with a broad brush? You don't have to quote the source, if you don't want it to be personal... but if the source is ME... I'm happy to be called out. Don't worry, I won't start arguing about, or picking apart, each example.

Are there actual instances of South-bashing? One? A few? Several? Lots? Or is this another example of southerners being overly - even if understandably - prickly and defensive? Is Mickey justified in his request. Or is McMullen - no matter how bluntly stated - essentially on target? Let's see the evidence, if you would...

hokiefan
06-21-2015, 11:02 PM
The southern bashing over the years right here on the WBForum has indeed become tedious. It comes from a multitude of folks that have never taken the time to experience what the south has to offer. Not everyone here, but from enough. The south has its issues, there's no doubt about it. But we have also come a very long way towards getting better. I know racist people in the south, but even they know enough to keep their mouths shut in public. Up here in rural Illinois, I hear people talk like I haven't heard since my days going to segregated schools in the south. NO ONE in the south talks like this in public. No one.

So its little wonder that I find the talk here about how backwards the south is just a bit annoying.

Cheers,

Bobby

bobbys
06-21-2015, 11:07 PM
The southern bashing over the years right here on the WBForum has indeed become tedious. It comes from a multitude of folks that have never taken the time to experience what the south has to offer. Not everyone here, but from enough. The south has its issues, there's no doubt about it. But we have also come a very long way towards getting better. I know racist people in the south, but even they know enough to keep their mouths shut in public. Up here in rural Illinois, I hear people talk like I haven't heard since my days going to segregated schools in the south. NO ONE in the south talks like this in public. No one.

So its little wonder that I find the talk here about how backwards the south is just a bit annoying.

Cheers,

Bobby
.

well the good thing is the pressure Is off new jersey for once.

Dave Wright
06-21-2015, 11:17 PM
I only sample a few threads here, andcomment on even fewer, but this is one example:

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?193395-Speaking-of-family-values&p=4567166&highlight=#post4567166

I took exception to it because the OP essentially interpreted the published article to match his preconceived notions.

David G
06-21-2015, 11:36 PM
Dave - thanks for stepping up with an example. Anyone have others?

Jimmy W
06-21-2015, 11:57 PM
How about the one where you were pitying all of us southerners for living here?

David G
06-22-2015, 12:26 AM
How about the one where you were pitying all of us southerners for living here?

Here it is, thanks --

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?193722-Tone-deaf-beyond-belief-Confederate-flag-still-flies-high-after-church-killings&highlight=And+yet%2C+it+remains+on+offer.


Others?

bamamick
06-22-2015, 07:57 AM
Enough is enough, I guess. Thread closed. I am taking a break.