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Norman Bernstein
06-05-2015, 12:59 PM
Maybe Norway has a bit more of a luxury to do the right thing, than does the US.

Interesting to note that they're using the excess wealth from their oil and gas resources wisely.... namely, saving it. We'd NEVER do that, in the US, sorry to say.


STOCKHOLM (AP) Norway's Parliament has formally endorsed a move to exclude coal companies from the country's $900 billion oil fund because of their impact on climate change.

Friday's decision was expected after a parliamentary committee last week unanimously recommended dropping coal investments.

The new guidelines, which will take effect by Jan. 1, 2016, call on fund managers to exclude mining or power companies that depend on coal for at least 30 percent of their activities or revenues.

Greenpeace and other environmental groups advocating divestment from fossil fuels celebrated the move as a critical step. They estimated the decision could affect investments of $8.6 billion in 122 companies.

Norway deposits surplus wealth from its oil and gas sector in the sovereign wealth fund as a buffer for when its offshore wells run dry.

TomF
06-05-2015, 01:04 PM
Norway's sovereign wealth fund is a sterling example to the rest of the world of how to manage a national resource on behalf of the nation. And now, apparently, they've got the cushion to be able to set a positive example for the world.

As a Canadian ... and a former Albertan ... I am appalled by our comparative mismanagement, shocking lapses of vision, and capitulation to greed.

Norman Bernstein
06-05-2015, 01:09 PM
Woop-de doooooo
they chose one fossil fuel over another

No, they chose the least bad, of bad options... and recognizing that, are taking steps to make sure that there's a net benefit to their country.

$900 BILLION, in a country the size of Norway?

I'd say they are shining examples of responsible governance!

Paul Pless
06-05-2015, 01:12 PM
$900 BILLION, in a country the size of Norway?what's that come to per person?

Dan McCosh
06-05-2015, 01:14 PM
what's that come to per person?Norway's population is about five million--about the same a metro Detroit. It's the fifth wealthiest country in the world per capita.

Norman Bernstein
06-05-2015, 01:15 PM
what's that come to per person?

Norway's population is 5 million.... so it's $180,000 per head. Appropriately invested, that's enough to provide every man, woman, and child with $7200 per year, or $28.8K for a family of four.... presuming it were conservatively invested.

bob winter
06-05-2015, 01:26 PM
As a Canadian ... and a former Albertan ... I am appalled by our comparative mismanagement, shocking lapses of vision, and capitulation to greed.

There seems to be surplus of mismanagement and greed at both the federal and provincial levels. As to lapses of vision, it is necessary to have a vision before it can lapse.

From where I am sitting, it looks to me that Harper decided to base the economy on the energy sector, to the exclusion of a lot of other areas. This is now going to come back and bite him in the ass. I can only hope we manage to get rid of this bunch of clowns in October. What we replace Harper with kind of scares me. Trudeau does not appeal to me in the least and I wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances. The Liberal Party of Canada has too much old baggage. Voting Green is appealing but likely a waste of a vote. It looks like the NDP at the moment.

Norman Bernstein
06-05-2015, 01:32 PM
And it will last as long as the oil, then the flip comes

The $900 BILLION is already secured, and Norway is just trying to isolate itself from any investments that might sour, and or do major environmental damage (coal is overwhelmingly dirtier than oil, and oil is a lot dirtier than natural gas). It's a sensible move.

TomF
06-05-2015, 01:33 PM
And it will last as long as the oil, then the flip comesThe fund grew from nothing to that $900B in 25 years. It's invested in over 9000 companies worldwide, and while Norway's oil production is slowing, it's certainly not played out ... nor will it be for some decades yet.

In the meantime, $900B can generate quite a bit of compound interest, notwithstanding the ongoing top-up from royalty revenues. Bear in mind that Norway's not only increasing the fund's capital, but they're not drawing down any of its investment income. And the national budget's presently running operating surpluses even without the royalties, while citizens have a good quality of life. Here's an article (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/norway-s-sovereign-wealth-holds-lessons-for-canada-1.3002803)about it, from back in March when the price of oil was a bit higher, and the value of the fund was about $1Trillion.

Bearing that kind of discipline in mind, I don't think that they're gonna deplete that fund any time soon, and it doesn't seem much in their national character to try. It is irksome when a socialist country turns out to manage resources and finances better than us capitalists, eh?

Peerie Maa
06-05-2015, 01:39 PM
The $900 BILLION is already secured, and Norway is just trying to isolate itself from any investments that might sour, and or do major environmental damage (coal is overwhelmingly dirtier than oil, and oil is a lot dirtier than natural gas). It's a sensible move.

There is a lot of gas in their bit of the North Sea as well.
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/images/2014.05.16/chart2.pnghttp://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=16311

TomF
06-05-2015, 01:43 PM
There seems to be surplus of mismanagement and greed at both the federal and provincial levels. As to lapses of vision, it is necessary to have a vision before it can lapse.

From where I am sitting, it looks to me that Harper decided to base the economy on the energy sector, to the exclusion of a lot of other areas. This is now going to come back and bite him in the ass. I can only hope we manage to get rid of this bunch of clowns in October. What we replace Harper with kind of scares me. Trudeau does not appeal to me in the least and I wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances. The Liberal Party of Canada has too much old baggage. Voting Green is appealing but likely a waste of a vote. It looks like the NDP at the moment.There are a few strategic voting campaigns online, most prominently Leadnow, (http://www.leadnow.ca/) to consolidate the vote against Harper. I've signed a pledge to vote for the strongest challenger in my constituency.

At this point we've squandered a big part of the energy resource, but IMO it is still very possible to set up a sovereign fund and recoup some benefits. There are meaningful questions about how such a fund ought to be invested, and as a former Albertan I understand the perspectives of folks who figure this is their resource, not a national one. That making it into a national resource feels like theft. Having lived in 5 different provinces, I have a different perspective on that ... but nevermind.

Gerarddm
06-05-2015, 02:15 PM
I would hope they are investing in water and tidal power as well. They certainly have the resources for it.

Peerie Maa
06-05-2015, 02:17 PM
I would hope they are investing in water and tidal power as well. They certainly have the resources for it.

Yep, here is just one.
http://www.norwegianoceanpower.com/
and another
http://www.renewableenergyfocus.com/view/14191/floating-tidal-power-plant-opened-in-norway/

Google is as ever our friend.

Waddie
06-05-2015, 03:40 PM
They'll burn the coal when the gas and oil are gone. So will we.

regards,
Waddie

jack grebe
06-05-2015, 03:58 PM
They'll burn the coal when the gas and oil are gone. So will we.

regards,
Waddie

I said that in an early post, but the powers that be smacked it down.........


but the quote still stands...........

Chris Smith porter maine
06-05-2015, 04:39 PM
They'll burn the coal when the gas and oil are gone. So will we.

regards,
Waddie

We might but they will have no need, Statoil is getting big into wind, they know the oil and gas will run out, and plan to be an energy supplier in the future.

skuthorp
06-05-2015, 05:01 PM
"capitulation to greed."
Tes TomF, the west has had it's head in the ideological sand bucket for a long time and our ruling class are creatures of the oligarchs. And yes, I do say 'ruling class', because the corporations buy the governments they want so the state supports al but their oversteppig excesses. The concept of a sovereign fund would be an anathema to them.

john welsford
06-06-2015, 12:31 AM
Coal is a precious resource long term, not for burning but for plastics and other petrochemicals.
Like oil, we should not be burning it up for energy, there are much more important uses. I think that the coal "lobby" should put some effort into research in that area which would be a better way of preserving their jobs than just trying to hold back the tide of anti pollution sentiment among the greater population.

John Welsford

L.W. Baxter
06-06-2015, 12:59 AM
I think it's cute that a country made wealthy by oil "disavows" coal.