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David G
05-25-2015, 12:26 PM
Will you join me in this pledge?

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11150938_10152967243306275_5355673836123471130_n.j pg?oh=704af0b167aa5a1a88c9832edb35d2c3&oe=55C94B47

Ian McColgin
05-25-2015, 12:35 PM
Done. Years ago but renewal is nice.

CWSmith
05-25-2015, 12:44 PM
Done, but I'm not sure that some elections will offer us an alternative.

David G
05-25-2015, 02:12 PM
Yes... there's always an alternative.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/05/25/the-one-video-everyone-needs-to-remember-on-memorial-day-video/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk5ZJ6uVO9Y


This election year we should consider making election day a day of remembrance for our veterans and remember who voted against VA benefits. The above video mashup is from when the bill was being decided. The video can be summed up with one quote from Sen. Bernie Sanders,


“If you think it is too expensive to take care of veterans, don’t send them to war.”

Gerarddm
05-25-2015, 02:48 PM
Yes.

Bernie, as usual, hits the nail on the head.

bobbys
05-25-2015, 03:23 PM
What better way to honor the dead then to use the day as a political attack.

You could have picked anything but choose this.

Shame on you.

David G
05-25-2015, 03:28 PM
What better way to honor the dead then to use the day as a political attack.

You could have picked anything but choose this.

Shame on you.

Do you have a "I support the troops" bumper sticker on any of your vehicles?

Or do you smile or nod when you see one?

Do you regard yourself as supporting the troops?

If so...

Then what better way than to join me in this pledge?

Will you join me? If not... why not?

And shame on YOU for posting snark - instead of taking this opportunity to join us in supporting the troops.


Everyone who regards themselves as supportive of our troops... will you join me in this pledge? If not, why not?

David G
05-25-2015, 05:08 PM
bbbbbys... I see you're around.

Will you join me? If not, why not?

It's not about ideology... it's about supporting the troops.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10941116_10153334452992908_6865609441047079646_n.p ng?oh=6c1719145ff8d8c148eb703dfb41aad5&oe=560C8A96

David G
05-25-2015, 05:34 PM
bbbbbbys... TELL ME you care about our Wounded Warriors --

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10857948_827014474027129_3762716791643751779_n.jpg ?oh=e1761fe4d332e1f0bf6beaff6c04d827&oe=5601F3B1

Garret
05-25-2015, 05:37 PM
What better way to honor the dead then to use the day as a political attack.

You could have picked anything but choose this.

Shame on you.

It's not a political attack! It's simply a statement that we need to support those who support vets. In fact, not only is it not an attack, it's an opportunity to see who votes for wars & won't help vets & who votes against wars & wants to help vets. I know who I'll support.

John Smith
05-25-2015, 05:40 PM
I have a larger problem. All day I have heard people honor the fallen by telling us they died defending our freedoms, or some such.

I have the utmost respect for those who put on our military uniforms and go where they are sent and fight the battles they are sent into.

HOWEVER, as soon as one 'justifies' the battle, or the 'cause', one is justifying the war. My impression is very few Americans see the Iraq war as a good thing to do, a war with a worthy cause. If the war was unjustified, the deaths it causes were unjustified. There was no good cause. I'd say the same for the Korean war, the Vietnam war, and the Afghanistan war.

I don't believe ANY of those wars served a valid purpose. If we decide to be politically correct, other than honest, and say the fallen soldiers fell to protect our freedoms, keep us safe, or some other BS, we make it easier for future presidents to send our young men and women into more stupid, pointless wars.

Yes, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I can appreciate and honor those who fought and died, or came home severely wounded, without agreeing that the war they died in had anything to do with our safety or our freedom.

John Smith
05-25-2015, 05:42 PM
It's not a political attack! It's simply a statement that we need to support those who support vets. In fact, not only is it not an attack, it's an opportunity to see who votes for wars & won't help vets & who votes against wars & wants to help vets. I know who I'll support.

The way we treat our veterans is an embarrassment. The two Vets at Kmart last year blamed Obama. More BS. We didn't treat those who returned from Korea well. Or from Vietnam. Today's wars send us wounded vets who cannot get the help they need.

That cost should have been figured into the cost of going to war.

Garret
05-25-2015, 05:45 PM
I have a larger problem. All day I have heard people honor the fallen by telling us they died defending our freedoms, or some such.

I have the utmost respect for those who put on our military uniforms and go where they are sent and fight the battles they are sent into.

HOWEVER, as soon as one 'justifies' the battle, or the 'cause', one is justifying the war. My impression is very few Americans see the Iraq war as a good thing to do, a war with a worthy cause. If the war was unjustified, the deaths it causes were unjustified. There was no good cause. I'd say the same for the Korean war, the Vietnam war, and the Afghanistan war.

I don't believe ANY of those wars served a valid purpose. If we decide to be politically correct, other than honest, and say the fallen soldiers fell to protect our freedoms, keep us safe, or some other BS, we make it easier for future presidents to send our young men and women into more stupid, pointless wars.

Yes, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I can appreciate and honor those who fought and died, or came home severely wounded, without agreeing that the war they died in had anything to do with our safety or our freedom.

Has any war since WW2 really been justified? Or were all that have come after really been the US minding other country's business? Maybe not a popular question on Memorial Day - but it seems to me that the best way we can honor those who have fallen is to make sure no more do needlessly.

CWSmith
05-25-2015, 06:31 PM
That cost should have been figured into the cost of going to war.

Don't you remember? The Iraqi war was going to pay for itself, so we could reduce taxes at the same time? If you reduce support to vets, it's all pure profit!

Lew Barrett
05-25-2015, 08:45 PM
Patty Murray co-sponsored this bill with Sen. Sanders. She's may be the leading voice for veterans in the body today.

Garret, I'd respectfully disagree that this thread is entirely without political overtones. The hypocrisy of the Republican led Senate is on parade today through their virtually total rejection of a bill even their spokespeople agree has many positive attributes. But I'd say: "So what?" to bobbys' feigned indignation.

He's got the "shoe of disgrace" on the wrong foot.

Canoez
05-25-2015, 08:52 PM
I have a larger problem. All day I have heard people honor the fallen by telling us they died defending our freedoms, or some such.

I have the utmost respect for those who put on our military uniforms and go where they are sent and fight the battles they are sent into.

HOWEVER, as soon as one 'justifies' the battle, or the 'cause', one is justifying the war. My impression is very few Americans see the Iraq war as a good thing to do, a war with a worthy cause. If the war was unjustified, the deaths it causes were unjustified. There was no good cause. I'd say the same for the Korean war, the Vietnam war, and the Afghanistan war.

I don't believe ANY of those wars served a valid purpose. If we decide to be politically correct, other than honest, and say the fallen soldiers fell to protect our freedoms, keep us safe, or some other BS, we make it easier for future presidents to send our young men and women into more stupid, pointless wars.

Yes, I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I can appreciate and honor those who fought and died, or came home severely wounded, without agreeing that the war they died in had anything to do with our safety or our freedom.


John,

The men and women who have raised their right hand and sworn an oath to defend this country do not get a choice on when and where they fight. You do not have to support the politicians or the policy that sent them in harm's way, but you do need to support our fighting men and women. I think that we as a country do not need to be the world's policemen, but, when it is deemed necessary to send our military personnel to fight, we should send them as the best trained, best equipped force that we can. When those men and women return from battle, broken in body, spirit and mind, we should do our utmost to support them in their path to healing.

Garret
05-25-2015, 09:21 PM
Patty Murray co-sponsored this bill with Sen. Sanders. She's may be the leading voice for veterans in the body today.

Garret, I'd respectfully disagree that this thread is entirely without political overtones. The hypocrisy of the Republican led Senate is on parade today through their virtually total rejection of a bill even their spokespeople agree has many positive attributes. But I'd say: "So what?" to bobbys' feigned indignation.

He's got the "shoe of disgrace" on the wrong foot.

You're right Lew. I got a bit carried away trying to make the point that Memorial Day is a perfect time for expressing indignation at people voting against supporting injured vets.

Sanders surprised a lot of folks with how strongly he has supported vets. While I believe that he believes in them, it's also been a very good political move for him.

David G
05-25-2015, 11:20 PM
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/1475880_441934332595363_1938017607_n.jpg?oh=1c8d18 f7b60b96b91636a82bd1aa958a&oe=55F97A0B

Waddie
05-26-2015, 12:40 AM
So this is your way of coercing people to support vets on EVERYTHING or you're against them, is that the idea.....

I'm a vet, my father was a career Marine, my oldest boy was an infantry officer and did two overseas tours, including Iraq. I don't believe veterans benefits should be carved in stone.

Those with service related physical and/or mental issues should receive treatment. No argument there. But I do not favor free life long health care for healthy vets who only did a two year hitch, (except for service related injuries).

I favor retirement pensions after 20 years, but starting at age 62, not when they leave service, at say, age 38.

And veterans get lots of other benefits, like tuition, home financing, business startup assistance, etc. Those benefits should be based on what the country can afford.

regards,
Waddie

David G
05-26-2015, 01:01 AM
So this is your way of coercing people to support vets on EVERYTHING or you're against them, is that the idea.....

I'm a vet, my father was a career Marine, my oldest boy was an infantry officer and did two overseas tours, including Iraq. I don't believe veterans benefits should be carved in stone.

Those with service related physical and/or mental issues should receive treatment. No argument there. But I do not favor free life long health care for healthy vets who only did a two year hitch, (except for service related injuries).

I favor retirement pensions after 20 years, but starting at age 62, not when they leave service, at say, age 38.

And veterans get lots of other benefits, like tuition, home financing, business startup assistance, etc. Those benefits should be based on what the country can afford.

regards,
Waddie

Yes... on what the country can afford. I'm down with that. With the caveat that part of the choice to go to war is the responsibility to actually fund the level of care - or something similar - that you describe. More if we possibly can. We can quibble about the details. I would say you're being too stringent on the limited benefits for a short hitch, for example. But, otherwise, I think you've got it.

Here's my slant on the situation. I have friends and relatives who are vets - including my brother and eldest son. Some are doing fine. Some did fine for years, then manifested symptoms attributable to PTSD. Some are dying from exposure to various munitions/gases. Some have been crippled for life. The worse shape they are in... the more bitter they are about how they have been treated/not treated by the VA.

Second slant - my sweetie was, for years, the chaplain on a hospital in-patient recovery clinic. I can't tell you how many instances I heard of vets who'd finally given up on the VA - and begun self-medicating with drugs/alcohol.

Third slant - I have a friend/former employee who served in Vietnam. Before he worked for me, immediately after he returned from Nam, he moved into the mountains and holed up. Couldn't stand to be around people. Built a bunker. Impregnable to anyone without Special Forces level talent. Snuck into town and shoplifted supplies. Began raising wolf-hybrids. He got better. Not all the way... but better. The person who went in as a cheerful, gregarious, highly competent fellow... is now just a bit twitchy overall. His marriage didn't last - and he knows it was his issues. Therapy continues. The VA had no clue how to handle him... and the overall theme was incompetence and buck-passing.

Given that we are doing such a poor job of funding even the 'efficient' level of care you suggest... may I assume you will be joining me in this pledge? How about with the caveat that we retain the right to re-evaluate if/when we do reach an acceptable level of care for those worst off?

Waddie
05-26-2015, 01:20 AM
If the pledge is for adequate health care, sign me up. If it's a take it or leave it support for all veterans benefits I'll pass.

This may sound callous, but there's plenty of perfectly healthy vets out there signing up for claims just because they can, or they feel they have to file a claim now because they believe it may be harder to do later, so it's CYA. That's a big part of what's jamming up the VA health care system.

regards,
Waddie

Captain Intrepid
05-26-2015, 01:24 AM
I agree to the idea in principle, but I refuse to make pledges like this. I understand the possibility of reasoned deviation from my normal positions, and I don't like breaking my word.