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CWSmith
05-09-2015, 08:04 PM
Late at night when movies are playing I like to go to the web and search the bios of the actors on IMDb. For those who don't know, it's like a better Wikipedia for movies and such.

Lately, it's been a lot of disappointment. I was watching a video on YouTube that had Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers dancing to "Dance, Dance, Dance". It's fantastic if you haven't seen it! So I went to IMDb and I learned that Fred was a life-long conservative Republican. That's ok. Then I learned that Ginger was married and divorced 5 times and actually thought that the Hollywood blacklist and the McCarthy hearings were a good idea. That's rough.

Today I was watching "Support Your Local Sheriff". Then what really disappointed me was when I read in IMDb that Walter Brennan got up and danced a jig when he heard the news that Martin Luther King had been assassinated. He showed similar pleasure when Robert Kennedy was killed and was a supporter of George Wallace's presidential bids. That was hard to read. I always liked his work. I know that times change, but not enough.

Actors are people and they can be very different from their characters. Still, I can't enjoy a Walter Brennan film the same way again.

Old Dryfoot
05-09-2015, 08:33 PM
Sometimes it's best not to know too much about a celebrity. Just enjoy the work they do.

I love Clint Eastwood, I love his acting, and I love his directing, but he empty chair gig took a bit of the shine off for me. I'll still watch him, in fact I just watched Pale Rider a few nights back, but it's different now. Not in a bad way. . . just different.

CWSmith
05-10-2015, 12:39 PM
I guess I've always thought that; but Brennen did so many comic parts with such good humor, I wasn't prepared for that degree of ugliness.

Jim Bow
05-11-2015, 08:28 AM
I found a link to Aaron Spelling's bio. It stated that, though Brennans politics were to the right of Rush, "dancing a jig" would have ended his Hollywood career.

I understand that Gabby Hayes was quite a nice guy, as is Tom Hanks.

John Smith
05-11-2015, 08:58 AM
I think you have to allow yourself to separate the two. If you really like, let's say the music someone makes, why would his politics stand in your way of enjoying it?

If you go down this path, before you eat at a restaurant, you'll need to know more about the owner, than how well you like the food.

Rum_Pirate
05-11-2015, 09:43 AM
I think you have to allow yourself to separate the two. If you really like, let's say the music someone makes, why would his politics stand in your way of enjoying it?

If you go down this path, before you eat at a restaurant, you'll need to know more about the owner, than how well you like the food.
+ 1.

CWSmith
05-11-2015, 10:11 AM
Oh, it's a slippery slope. I agree that one has to be careful. I'm sure I'll watch him again and fall back into that enjoyable place I've always been. I suppose it was the shock that caught me off guard. The behavior described was beyond anything I expected.

People are complicated.

BrianY
05-11-2015, 10:12 AM
For me, unless the person's politics are so extreme or reprehensible that I find them morally offensive, an actor's or creator's politics only matter if they influence his/her creative output in a way that I find unappealing. Thus I can enjoy Clint Eastwood's films even if I disagree with his politics, but if David Duke ever produces or acts in a movie, I won't go see it.

Jim Bow
05-11-2015, 10:40 AM
Did you know there is IMCDb.org? The internet movie cars database.
I discovered that the 4X4 in Eye Of The Needle, a WW2 flick, was a 1957 DKW.

John of Phoenix
05-11-2015, 10:40 AM
One of my acquaintances recently commented that he wouldn't watch anything featuring Mayweather or Pacquiao because of their record concerning violence against women. Seems reasonable as far one can take it but what do you do in the case of team sports?

I had a brief encounter with Clint Eastwood several years ago when he ran and frequented his bar, The Hog's Breath Inn, in Carmel, CA. It was the night of a formal Army "Dining In" for officers and their wives held at the Officers' Club at Ft Ord. The ladies were in evening gowns, the men in Army dress blues including Cav hats and sabers. We closed the Officers' Club around midnight and adjourned to the Hog's Breath where we encountered Clint. He was a bit taken aback by such a crowd but made the rounds to say hello. He was pretty laid back until someone tossed him a saber and shouted "ON GUARD!"

On the way out someone else left him with this - "THE CAV'S BEEN THROWN OUTTA BETTER WHORE HOUSES THAN THIS DUMP!"

All over a little swordplay. No sense of adventure. No sense of humor. :D

WszystekPoTrochu
05-11-2015, 05:29 PM
I think you have to allow yourself to separate the two. If you really like, let's say the music someone makes, why would his politics stand in your way of enjoying it?

Yet, they do. I will enjoy a work of art even if don't hold an artist in high esteem. I will not fully enjoy it if I know that a detail was meant to offend me, like Giger's eggs in Alien.
I also delibarately avoid any of Polański's works, as they are a vivid reminder that one can do the most despicable acts if famous enough.

Old Dryfoot
05-11-2015, 11:38 PM
I will not fully enjoy it if I know that a detail was meant to offend me, like Giger's eggs in Alien. How was the egg design in Alien offensive?

Captain Intrepid
05-11-2015, 11:52 PM
How was the egg design in Alien offensive?

Apparently it was originally designed to look very much like a vagina and labia, but after it was thought that might cause offense in Catholic countries, Geiger redesigned it so it would form a cross from above.

Old Dryfoot
05-12-2015, 12:08 AM
Thanks for that.

ron ll
05-12-2015, 07:55 AM
Just curious; anyone here avoid Woody Allen movies? Mel Gibson? Bill Cosby?

Kevin T
05-12-2015, 08:26 AM
One of my acquaintances recently commented that he wouldn't watch anything featuring Mayweather or Pacquiao because of their record concerning violence against women. Seems reasonable as far one can take it but what do you do in the case of team sports?

I had a brief encounter with Clint Eastwood several years ago when he ran and frequented his bar, The Hog's Breath Inn, in Carmel, CA. It was the night of a formal Army "Dining In" for officers and their wives held at the Officers' Club at Ft Ord. The ladies were in evening gowns, the men in Army dress blues including Cav hats and sabers. We closed the Officers' Club around midnight and adjourned to the Hog's Breath where we encountered Clint. He was a bit taken aback by such a crowd but made the rounds to say hello. He was pretty laid back until someone tossed him a saber and shouted "ON GUARD!"

On the way out someone else left him with this - "THE CAV'S BEEN THROWN OUTTA BETTER WHORE HOUSES THAN THIS DUMP!"

All over a little swordplay. No sense of adventure. No sense of humor. :D

In fairness to Clint (he's currently 84 years old) If this incident was say 10 years ago ( he was 74 yrs old then) and some 30 something strapping hulk of a Cav officer, who may have had a couple of drinks, maybe even more than a couple of drinks, tosses him a saber and challenges him to even a "play" sword fight, I think declining the offer to duel might be wise, it's all fun and games until somebody gets cut. Not a risk I'd take after midnight with a drunk guy.

Flying Orca
05-12-2015, 08:42 AM
If you really like, let's say the music someone makes, why would his politics stand in your way of enjoying it?

Yes.

Unlikely scenario, though, as the music in which I am most interested involves well-written songs, and political views tend to pop up in lyrics. I can't think of a songwriter I like who expresses right-wing sentiments in his or her songs, but then, I can't think of a songwriter who expresses right-wing sentiments, period.

Flying Orca
05-12-2015, 08:46 AM
Apparently it was originally designed to look very much like a vagina and labia, but after it was thought that might cause offense in Catholic countries...

Why would that "cause offense in Catholic countries"?

Flying Orca
05-12-2015, 08:47 AM
Just curious; anyone here avoid Woody Allen movies? Mel Gibson? Bill Cosby?

I don't think I've ever heard of a Bill Cosby movie, but I wouldn't see anything made by Allen or Gibson.

WszystekPoTrochu
05-12-2015, 10:14 AM
Why would that "cause offense in Catholic countries"?


In a meeting in the boardroom upstairs at Bray Studios, Nicky Allder recalled that after Ridley had seen the egg, someone said "what do you think of the egg?"
Ridley's exact response was "I think it's f....ng obscene" and there was a deadly hush and everybody looked at each other
Gordon Carroll said "Ridley, what do you mean by "the egg looks obscene?
http://vader.joemonster.org/upload/rqt/1382148df56aceaAlienopening.jpg

So:


When the gentlemen are beginning to get over it, I allow myself to ask whether they like it. Scott thinks it's too good, and Carroll too specific. He's afraid it will get them into trouble, especially in the Catholic countries. Dilley would rather have something more like a flower opening. This suggestion gives me the idea of doubling the bud effect and laying the two, one across the other. Seen from above, they would form the cross that people in the Catholic countries are so fond of looking at. Once again I can satisfy the producers, myself and the public at home and abroad.

Alien (final cut, not director's cut) is a piece of marvel, but I kinda dislike the eggs, and only because learning how they came to be.

Waddie
05-12-2015, 10:26 AM
I think you have to allow yourself to separate the two. If you really like, let's say the music someone makes, why would his politics stand in your way of enjoying it?

If you go down this path, before you eat at a restaurant, you'll need to know more about the owner, than how well you like the food.

Not so easy to separate the two for some of us. I don't go looking for information but when I do become informed, it does color my perception of their work to some extent. I greatly admire Einstein, but when I read what a lousy father and husband he was, and that he denied his wife (also a physicist), who helped him immensely, any credit for his work, I lost a lot of respect for him as a man. I still admire his work, but not him as a person so much. I can separate the two, but not entirely.

regards,
Waddie

Andrew Craig-Bennett
05-12-2015, 10:45 AM
Look up Lawrence Olivier.

He considered himself a failure... he said that Cary Grant was a success.

Flying Orca
05-12-2015, 10:53 AM
Alien (final cut, not director's cut) is a piece of marvel, but I kinda dislike the eggs, and only because learning how they came to be.

I still don't understand how depicting alien reproductive tissue as resembling human reproductive tissue would be offensive to Catholics.

WszystekPoTrochu
05-12-2015, 11:43 AM
I think you have to allow yourself to separate the two. If you really like, let's say the music someone makes, why would his politics stand in your way of enjoying it?

If you go down this path, before you eat at a restaurant, you'll need to know more about the owner, than how well you like the food.

I've seen family bonds loosen over politics, why not choose one restaurant before the other because of politics?

The biggest bookseller in Poland got on the verge of bankrupcy after chronic management issues got amplified by a mass boycott. The reason for it? Death metal star idiot and pro-abortion woman publisher becoming a face of christmas ad campaign.

CWSmith
05-12-2015, 11:59 AM
I still don't understand how depicting alien reproductive tissue as resembling human reproductive tissue would be offensive to Catholics.

I think it's an ink blot test. I saw the movie numerous times and it never occurred to me (genitals, cross, whatever). It's nonsense.

WszystekPoTrochu
05-12-2015, 01:10 PM
I still don't understand how depicting alien reproductive tissue as resembling human reproductive tissue would be offensive to Catholics.

You mean offensive as causing anger or offensive as insulting? I see no reason for the latter in original design as well.
The former is modesty related, I guess. I might be not the guy to answer that, even despite being catholic.

Flying Orca
05-12-2015, 01:22 PM
You mean offensive as causing anger or offensive as insulting?

How should I know? I'm not the one who suggested that it would be offensive, I'm trying to understand how it could be.

People have weird hangups about physiology.

WszystekPoTrochu
05-12-2015, 01:59 PM
Weird or not, they do. It is in filmmaker's best interest not to trifle with it too much.

Flying Orca
05-12-2015, 02:01 PM
Weird or not, they do. It is in filmmaker's best interest not to trifle with it too much.

I think it is in civilization's best interest that artists trifle with such things as often as possible... ;)

WszystekPoTrochu
05-12-2015, 02:06 PM
I think it is in civilization's best interest that artists trifle with such things as often as possible... ;)

Hollywood? Artists? ;)

Flying Orca
05-12-2015, 02:13 PM
Hollywood? Artists? ;)

H.R. Giger was an artist, certainly, though not a Hollywood artist. Ridley Scott and Dan O'Bannon arguably qualify as artists as well.

Old Dryfoot
05-12-2015, 08:05 PM
H.R. Giger was a phenomenal artist!

I don't get the offensive bit either. I should think that sensitive types would be far more alarmed at the sight of an alien bursting out of a man's chest, than they would a physiological similarity.

BrianY
05-13-2015, 09:18 AM
..., but then, I can't think of a songwriter who expresses right-wing sentiments, period.

I guess you don't listen to much Country music. That whole musical genre is built on right -wing sentiments.

Flying Orca
05-13-2015, 10:06 AM
I guess you don't listen to much Country music. That whole musical genre is built on right -wing sentiments.

I listen to some country, but not the kind they play on the radio. Never heard Lyle Lovett or Lucinda Williams or Emmylou Harris get all right-wing, and Steve Earle's plenty political but in the other direction...

BrianY
05-13-2015, 11:25 AM
Although it pains me greatly to do so, I will post this for Flying Orca's edification. I hope everyone will forgive me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM_tDB8OZok


F.O. - I think you've hit upon a schism in "country music" between the kind of country music that's thoughtful, soulful and based on traditional, "classic" country and and the kind of rock-based country music that appeals to Bud Lite drinking, flag waving (often the Confederate flag) NASCAR fans such as the example I posted here. I was thinking of latter category when I asserted its basis in right -wing sentiments.

Toby Keith, Brad Paisly, Garth Brooks etc.

Flying Orca
05-13-2015, 12:12 PM
F.O. - I think you've hit upon a schism in "country music" between the kind of country music that's thoughtful, soulful and based on traditional, "classic" country and and the kind of rock-based country music that appeals to Bud Lite drinking, flag waving (often the Confederate flag) NASCAR fans such as the example I posted here. I was thinking of latter category when I asserted its basis in right -wing sentiments.

Toby Keith, Brad Paisly, Garth Brooks etc.

Well, I've heard of Garth Brooks, and I think I heard one of his songs at a Special O event, but I can't say I'm burning to learn more about the type of music you describe. Sturgeon's Law likely applies in spades.

Jimmy W
05-13-2015, 06:05 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garth_Brooks#Support_for_gay_rights


In the lyrics to his song "We Shall Be Free", Brooks sings "When we're free to love anyone we choose," which has been interpreted as a reference to gay relationships. Brooks won a 1993 GLAAD Media Award for the song. In a 1999 interview with George, Brooks said, "[...]But if you're in love, you've got to follow your heart and trust that God will explain to us why we sometimes fall in love with people of the same sex." In 2000, Brooks appeared at the Equality Rocks benefit concert for gay rights. He sang a duet with openly gay singer George Michael.

Brooks' half-sister Betsy Smittle, who died in 2013, was a well-known musician and part of Brooks' band for some years; she also worked with the late country star Gus Hardin and other musicians in Tulsa. Smittle was also a lesbian, and Brooks has credited her with some of the inspiration for his support for equality.