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John Smith
04-26-2015, 08:51 PM
I was watching "42" the other day, and in one scene Jackie Robinson turned on the car radio and music instantly began. Back in those days car radios had tubes and needed a moment or two to warm up before any sound came out.

I suppose one could argue he was simply turning it up, but I don't know.

One day a friend and I were taking a tour of a WWII battleship. He noticed in the Ship's Store (I guess you'd call it) filter cigarettes, which my friend was quite upset over, as he was certain there were no filter cigarettes then.

I don't know, and I've not looked that up, but he was really certain.

Any one have any similar scenes/museums they've noticed getting some small bit of history wrong?

PeterSibley
04-26-2015, 10:22 PM
Medieval battle scenes in movies and TV series in which no one wears helmets and automatically rush into single combat rather than forming a shield wall for mutual support.

I find it quite annoying, frankly I can't think of one accurate representation of a battle from that period.

Captain Intrepid
04-26-2015, 10:31 PM
Medieval battle scenes in movies and TV series in which no one wears helmets and automatically rush into single combat rather than forming a shield wall for mutual support.

I find it quite annoying, frankly I can't think of one accurate representation of a battle from that period.

What about in Lord of the Rings? ;)

purri
04-26-2015, 10:36 PM
mediaeval warrior scenes where the extras wear wristwatches

PeterSibley
04-26-2015, 10:38 PM
Occasionally , the Hobbit too. Mutter, mutter.

There's a series here calling "Vikings", it had potential plot wise but , no helmets and lots of individuals gloriously dueling .r

Breakaway
04-26-2015, 10:43 PM
In fiction, a wristwatch on a Hun or Viking would bother me, but the dueling helm-less, or lack of radio tube warm up, I can suspend disbelief for.

In a museum, though. Its exactly those minute details which help bring history to life. They must be accurate.

Kevin

PeterSibley
04-27-2015, 02:01 AM
In fiction, a wristwatch on a Hun or Viking would bother me, but the dueling helm-less, or lack of radio tube warm up, I can suspend disbelief for.

In a museum, though. Its exactly those minute details which help bring history to life. They must be accurate.

Kevin

It's a bit like modern soldiers with half their uniform or pink tanks, it just doesn't fit.

Jim Bow
04-27-2015, 02:15 AM
In the movie "Pearl Harbor" there were almost no Asian folks living in Honolulu.
In "U571" Americans captured the first Enigma machine.
In "Pvt Ryan" it would have taken months for the War Department to deduce that 3 brothers had died.
Each brother was in a different part of the war.
In "Hellboy", his horn stumps would have shrunk with time.

PeterSibley
04-27-2015, 02:19 AM
Hey ! ''Hellboy'' was totally accurate !

Gerarddm
04-27-2015, 02:52 AM
As was Hellboy2!

John Smith
04-27-2015, 07:32 AM
In fiction, a wristwatch on a Hun or Viking would bother me, but the dueling helm-less, or lack of radio tube warm up, I can suspend disbelief for.

In a museum, though. Its exactly those minute details which help bring history to life. They must be accurate.

Kevin

The battleship mentioned is a museum. My friend noticed the cigarettes. I have no idea if something else was inaccurate.

Some of this would be like someone using a cell phone in a film taking place in the 1950's.

Rum_Pirate
04-27-2015, 07:39 AM
The battleship mentioned is a museum. My friend noticed the cigarettes. I have no idea if something else was inaccurate.

Some of this would be like someone using a cell phone in a film taking place in the 1950's.


Found these snippets



In 1936, B&W introduced Viceroy as the industry's first cork-tipped filter product. In 1952, B&W began marketing Viceroy with a new “cellulose acetate” filter. In 1954, Reynolds Tobacco introduced Winston – the first filter cigarette to achieve a major success in the marketplace.

R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company | History (https://www.rjrt.com/history.aspx)

https://www.rjrt.com/history.aspx









From 1935, a British (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) company began to develop a machine that made cigarettes incorporating the tipped filter. It was considered a speciality item until 1954, when manufacturers introduced the machine more broadly, following a spate of speculative announcements from doctors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician) and researchers concerning a possible link between lung diseases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lung_diseases) and smoking.



In the early 1950s, Kent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_(cigarette)) brand cigarettes used crocidolite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocidolite) asbestos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos) as part of the (Micronite) filter. Asbestos fiber is heatproof, insoluble and forms extremely fine fibers — but has been proven to cause lung cancer when inhaled.

David W Pratt
04-27-2015, 07:53 AM
The MASH TV series had a Black surgeon in the early episodes, they wrote him out when they realized the Army didn't have Black surgeons then, but they kept using disposable, plastic syringes.

Canoeyawl
04-27-2015, 08:00 AM
Lyrics
I hear Mariachi static on my radio
And the tubes they glow in the dark
And I'm there with her in Ensenada
And I'm here in Echo Park...



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B9L8jLPE84g

S.V. Airlie
04-27-2015, 09:01 AM
The Adams series had some errors in it. I actually called to point them out. Afterall, a documentary should be accurate.

John Smith
04-27-2015, 11:14 AM
The MASH TV series had a Black surgeon in the early episodes, they wrote him out when they realized the Army didn't have Black surgeons then, but they kept using disposable, plastic syringes.

Good catch.

Norman Bernstein
04-27-2015, 11:17 AM
The most grating thing, to me, is often the language used.... when obviously modern constructs of speech turn up in supposed period pieces.

Nicholas Scheuer
04-27-2015, 11:22 AM
One thing I always notice in period dramas such as Selfridges and Wolf Hall (PBS) are verbal expressions in the scripts which hadn't even been imagined at that time in history.

Nicholas Scheuer
04-27-2015, 11:26 AM
I notice the above simply because I personally try to avoid using the newest fads in expression (" 'sup", "true 'dat", and "old school" being current notable examples) and consciously try to use expression that are just a bit dated, often from a generation or two ago.

Shang
04-27-2015, 11:39 AM
In the buffalo hunt scene in Dances With Wolves, one of the Indian kids is wearing sneakers.

Nicholas Scheuer
04-27-2015, 11:45 AM
Back when WW2 and Korean warfare were hot film topics we'd often hear gratitude from Hollywood for the general use of gun cameras in fighter aircraft. However, it always bugs me when the film editor neglects "continuity" but not carrying through a scene with the appropriate model of aircraft. Say the pilot is SUPPOSED to be flying a P-51, and all of a sudden a different camera angle shows a P-47! I happen to have an unerring eye for identifying aircraft. I should let those film editors know that I am available. It would be easy money.

Canoeyawl
04-27-2015, 11:46 AM
John McPhee has a good article in the last issue of the New Yorker concerning these details of writing...


"A couple of weeks before that spring semester began, I had been in Massachusetts collecting impressions for this project by testing the frame of reference in a piece of mine called “Elicitation,” which was soon to run in The New Yorker. Why Massachusetts? Because that’s where Brookline High School is and where Mary Burchenal’s senior English classes meet, and where Isobel McPhee, daughter of my daughter Laura, was one of her students. The “Elicitation” frame of reference consisted of about five dozen items running along the edges of seven thousand words.


“I would like to try that list on you. Raise your hand if you recognize these names and places: Woody Allen.”


Nineteen hands went up. Everybody present in the class that day was aware of Woody Allen. As we went through my list, nineteen hands went up also for Muhammad Ali, Time magazine, Hallmark cards, Denver, Mexico, Princeton University, Winston Churchill, “Hamlet,” and Toronto. So those perfect scores reached around about fifteen per cent of the frame.


Sarah Palin, Omaha, Barbra Streisand, Rolls-Royce—eighteen.


Paul Newman—seventeen.


Heathrow—sixteen.


Fort Knox—fifteen.


Elizabeth Taylor, “My Fair Lady”—eleven.


Cassius Clay—eight.


Waterloo Bridge, Maggie Smith—six.


Norman Rockwell, Truman Capote, Joan Baez—five.


Rupert Murdoch—three.


Hampstead, Mickey Rooney—two.


Richard Burton, Laurence Olivier, Vivien Leigh—one.


“In England, would you know what a bobby is?”—one.


Calabria, St. John’s Wood, Peckham Rye, Churchill Downs, the Old Vic, News of the World, Jackie Gleason, David Brower, Ralph Nelson, David Susskind, Jack Dempsey, Stephen Harper, Thomas P. F. Hoving, George Plimpton, J. Anthony Lukas, Bob Woodward, Norman Maclean, Henry Luce, Sophia Loren, Mort Sahl, Jean Kerr, James Boswell, Samuel Johnson—zero."

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/03/09/frame-of-reference-john-mcphee

S.V. Airlie
04-27-2015, 11:53 AM
I'm not surprised. How many here in the US know why Bobbys are called Bobby. Give Robert a call.:)

BrianY
04-27-2015, 12:04 PM
In BraveheartMel Gibson and co. wear kilts but kilts weren't actually introduced to Scotland until about 400 years after the events depicted in the film.

John Smith
04-27-2015, 12:14 PM
Wonder how much is just taking creative license versus simply not knowing.

BrianY
04-27-2015, 12:21 PM
In Back to the Future when Marty McFly plays Johnny B. Goode, he plays it on a Gibson ES-345 with a Bigsby vibrato despite the fact that the guitar wasn’t first produced until 1958, and the vibrato later still

Sky Blue
04-27-2015, 12:33 PM
Watching old war movies in which Marines, both enlisted and commissioned, salute without being covered.

gilberj
04-27-2015, 12:43 PM
Back to the OP....I once visited a museum which had a Sextant dated to 1725. The first Sextant was made in 1759. Even the sextants immediate predecessor, the Octant was first made in 1731. Prior to that there ware a variety of different things used such as a cross staff, and an astrolabe.

Peerie Maa
04-27-2015, 01:06 PM
In BraveheartMel Gibson and co. wear kilts but kilts weren't actually introduced to Scotland until about 400 years after the events depicted in the film.


Wonder how much is just taking creative license versus simply not knowing.

Probably lack of knowledge/poor research. Putting the belt outside the cloak to make a belted plaid http://images.amcnetworks.com/sundancechannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/braveheart-mel-gibson.jpg
came in some time before the 1590s and lasted until the defeat of the Jacobite rising of 1745 when the wearing of the plaid was banned. It was Walter Scott who invented the tailored kilt.

Joris
04-27-2015, 01:27 PM
The MASH TV series had a Black surgeon in the early episodes, they wrote him out when they realized the Army didn't have Black surgeons then, but they kept using disposable, plastic syringes.

It's a bit before my time, but isn't that a folks-story? (sorry, don't know if that expression even exists?) I mean, there were black surgeons in Korea, right?

Joris

Tom Wilkinson
04-27-2015, 01:38 PM
It's a bit before my time, but isn't that a folks-story? (sorry, don't know if that expression even exists?) I mean, there were black surgeons in Korea, right?

Jorisa quick google search turned up at least one.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3994465/

BrianY
04-27-2015, 01:58 PM
The "Velociraptors" in Jurrassic Park were actually Deinonychus. Velociraptor was no bigger than a wolf and with its feathers it bore a very bird-like appearance.

Nicholas Scheuer
04-27-2015, 02:01 PM
I once had a Black Dentist who had been recognized for performing oral surgery in Korea.

Dan McCosh
04-27-2015, 02:24 PM
I once had a Black Dentist who had been recognized for performing oral surgery in Korea. Who recognized him?

S.V. Airlie
04-27-2015, 02:26 PM
I often wonder about the Jeeps used in WW2 and even Korea!

Michael D. Storey
04-27-2015, 02:26 PM
In the early 1950s, Kent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_(cigarette)) brand cigarettes used crocidolite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocidolite)asbestos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos) as part of the (Micronite) filter. Asbestos fiber is heatproof, insoluble and forms extremely fine fibers — but has been proven to cause lung cancer when inhaled.
Didn't Kents have 'The Thinking Man's Filter?'

Paul Pless
04-27-2015, 02:26 PM
I often wonder about the Jeeps used in WW2 and even Korea!
what is it that you wonder

S.V. Airlie
04-27-2015, 02:28 PM
Whether they are post 1953!

John Smith
04-27-2015, 02:31 PM
I had to make a special stop of activities before this skips my mind:

Remember all those westerns with the six shooters that never seemed to need reloading?

Shang
04-27-2015, 04:24 PM
Back in the days when I was making movies we were making a "History of the Persian Gulf" film for the Ministry of Educational Radio and Television of Iran. The film was to cover as far back in history as possible, and into the predictable future ahead.

My studio was equipped for animation, and I was able to use cell animation to depict the tectonic plate collision that produced all of Iran’s wrinkly mountains and trapped the oil beneath them. But when it came to the most recent ice age, when most of the earth was covered in snow and ice, cell animation didn't look real enough. So I constructed two relief maps, each four-by-eight feet, with paper-mache land masses and mountains. One map depicted most of Europe and the Near East, the other focused on the Persian Gulf region.

In order to film the effect of the ice sheets coming down over Europe I resorted to a “glass shot.” A sheet of plate glass was positioned between the animation camera and the relief maps. Using a long-handled paint brush I painted the glaciers on the glass while viewing through the camera’s view finder. Since we wanted to illustrate a smooth progressive motion as the glaciers moved from north to south the sequence was filmed in a series of dissolves.

The scene was technically difficult. The first take was a failure because I lost track of the frame-count, which messed up the dissolves. On the second take I decided to work day and night—it took three days, working ‘round the clock to complete the scene. But when the film came back from the laboratory the scene looked perfect, and we were happy…

…until our research guy on the production team learned that during the last ice age the glaciers didn’t move as far south as the Persian Gulf. Rats. The whole scene had to be scrapped.

Nicholas Scheuer
04-27-2015, 04:50 PM
If memory serves, I believe it was the Commander of US Forces in Korea was the person who signed the Citation, Dan. He was a pretty good DDS.

John B
04-27-2015, 05:07 PM
There's a series here calling "Vikings", it had potential plot wise but , no helmets and lots of individuals gloriously dueling .r

Those dudes were dark ages though eh and early raiding days were tribal/ family / clan affairs where personal skills and one on one heroic fighting was applauded. Organised forces and army tactics came later on , when they had someone organised to fight against.

John B
04-27-2015, 05:10 PM
I'll tell you what rips my undies....

Why does every film ever made that involves a sailing yacht or ship have to have some dick of a director insist on running the motor. And I include poor old Surprise in that.
GOT has it all through it too... oh lets just hang some old bedsheet up there and let it waft around like Nanna's winter nighty.They even do it digitally !

John Smith
04-27-2015, 06:45 PM
Or when they're steering a boat that isn't moving faster than the water.

Captain Intrepid
04-28-2015, 02:36 AM
I'll tell you what rips my undies....

Why does every film ever made that involves a sailing yacht or ship have to have some dick of a director insist on running the motor.

Easy. Film crews cost a lot of money, even while waiting for the perfect wind you need to get the shots you want.

I'm much less concerned about technical faults for reasons of practicality.

What really bugs me is films like "The Patriot" even remotely masquerading as historical fiction.

varadero
04-28-2015, 04:54 AM
No point in spoiling a good story by sticking to the facts!

Rum_Pirate
04-28-2015, 05:02 AM
Or when they're steering a boat that isn't moving faster than the water. Dislike the minor technicalities like a Captain shouting 'Hard a Starboard' and then turning the ships wheel Hard to Port.

varadero
04-28-2015, 05:18 AM
Or the yell of "Hoist the Bilge!! As the mainsail is dropped.

Jim Ledger
04-28-2015, 06:29 AM
It's not just the physical inaccuracies that rankle, although they abound, there's also the behaviorial mistakes, in particular overlaying modern mannerisms onto characters from a different era. An example from last night, First World War officers would never hug ach other, no matter how glad they were to see each other, they were Edwardians, fercryinoutloud. Let's face it, none of us had to hug each other until about twenty years ago, now even gangsters have to give each other a little cuddle and back-slap. And that whoo-hooing thing punctuated with a few air punches, nobody used to do that before the Reagan administration, but it abounds in contemporary films portraying pre-Eighties situations.

Paul Pless
04-28-2015, 06:50 AM
It's not just the physical inaccuracies that rankle, although they abound, there's also the behaviorial mistakes. An example, First World War officers would never hug ach other, no matter how glad they were to see each other, they were Edwardians, fercryinoutloud. Let's face it, none of us had to hug each other until about twenty years ago, now even gangsters have to give each other a little cuddle and back-slap. And that whoo-hooing thing punctuated with a few air punches, nobody used to do that before the Reagan administration, but it abounds in contemporary films portraying pre-Eighties situations.

damn, the things that you learn from old folks :D

Jim Ledger
04-28-2015, 06:51 AM
damn, the things that you learn from old folks :D

Why do you think we're so effin' cranky, Sport? Gotta go around hugging every damn body ya meet like they was your Ma and you just home from the War. Ol' Steve McQueen never had to hug anybody and he never yelled Woo-Hoo neither.:D

BrianY
04-28-2015, 10:19 AM
In the JJ Abrams Star Trek reboot movie, the Enterprise is shown under construction on the ground in Iowa, but in all of the other films and series, it's clear that space ships are built in orbiting "drydocks". In any case, why would they build such a massive spaceship on the ground?

ron ll
04-28-2015, 10:48 AM
Speaking of Star Trek, most of the earlier space operas had all the star ships meeting with the same vertical axis, like there is an up and down in space. Of course when I was a kid, I remember Flash Gordon's space ship fell off the bottom of the screen when the engine quit.

goodbasil
04-28-2015, 03:40 PM
" Argo" Change history to flatter one's self.

Paul Pless
04-28-2015, 03:45 PM
Why do you think we're so effin' cranky, Sport? Gotta go around hugging every damn body ya meet like they was your Ma and you just home from the War. Ol' Steve McQueen never had to hug anybody and he never yelled Woo-Hoo neither.:DSteve McQueen was 'the man'.

WszystekPoTrochu
04-28-2015, 04:16 PM
Wanna go to glaring inaccuracies? Let's talk about clothing. Affordable, synthetic dyes were not in the picture before late XIXth century. Indigo was obtained from plants before, red from cochineal etc. - available, but very costly. Until organic synthesis advanced, a big big part of society wore natural colours: brownish, greyish, whitish. Now take a look at an average 'historical' movie.


The "Velociraptors" in Jurrassic Park were actually Deinonychus. Velociraptor was no bigger than a wolf and with its feathers it bore a very bird-like appearance.
Deinonychus probably had feathers as well, but I think that feathered dinosaurs were not as widely accepted in early nineties as they are today.


Wonder how much is just taking creative license versus simply not knowing.
*not caring

Ted Hoppe
04-28-2015, 05:39 PM
The first one that ever bothered me as a kid was in the WW2 movie - Where eagles dare.

http://www.impdb.org/images/thumb/7/74/Where_eagles_dare14.jpg/500px-Where_eagles_dare14.jpg

Rum_Pirate
04-28-2015, 06:17 PM
The first one that ever bothered me as a kid was in the WW2 movie - Where eagles dare.

http://www.impdb.org/images/thumb/7/74/Where_eagles_dare14.jpg/500px-Where_eagles_dare14.jpg


What bit bothered you?

WszystekPoTrochu
04-28-2015, 06:22 PM
The helicopter

Edit: that's Bell 47, probably 47G. First built in 1954.

Captain Intrepid
04-28-2015, 06:28 PM
The modern helicopter?