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View Full Version : Yo...... Suspect (with a stolen rifle) taken out by a police cruiser...



Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-14-2015, 10:13 PM
Man, this is Dirty Harry stuff.... the guy was a serious danger, but whoaaa.....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwS7FNfBO38

LeeG
04-14-2015, 10:23 PM
Hey, it's AZ!

Ian McColgin
04-14-2015, 10:24 PM
The police chief is claiming the officer's crash saved lives, including the shooter's. Pretty strange.

Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-14-2015, 10:28 PM
The guy had robbed a store, broken into a house, then stolen a 30-30 and ammunition and was heading in the direction of a heavily populated business area. He has been released from Hospital.

Phillip Allen
04-14-2015, 10:30 PM
that call would be mighty close to make... I couldn't have done it, that's for sure... I understand the thinking though

Phillip Allen
04-14-2015, 10:31 PM
The guy had robbed a store, broken into a house, then stolen a 30-30 and ammunition and was heading in the direction of a heavily populated business area. He has been released from Hospital.

how the heck did he live through that???

Sky Blue
04-14-2015, 10:37 PM
I suspect it is not policy and procedure.

The officer driving the vehicle that hit the individual should be immediately suspended and an investigation into possible felony charges should promptly commence. These officers have a duty to confront the individual and attempt to talk him into a surrender (imho). Although the situation was fluid and extremely dangerous, officers in my judgment cannot use deadly force in this situation without first confronting the individual and attempting to talk him in. If he will not surrender, then he is to be surrounded and shot if he will not comply. Could a bystanding civilian have used deadly force with a firearm in this situation with no fear of charges? I don't think so.

With this spate of police shootings, I'm afraid that we may see more of this kind of thing as officers become more reluctant to confront dangerous offenders with a firearm or otherwise expose themselves to risk.

What if a child had been hidden in the area of the collision and was killed?

Steve McMahon
04-14-2015, 10:43 PM
Brutal. I bet that's gonna give the cops in choppers some crazy ideas.

Jim Bow
04-14-2015, 10:46 PM
The guy was on the road with a loaded rifle. Would he hold fire until confronted? Maybe he didn't get the "confrontation" memo.
Should the officers wait till the rifle is pointed at them? 1 second? 2 seconds?
The police car sideswiped him. He spent two days in the hospital. No one died.

Sky Blue
04-14-2015, 10:50 PM
The other officer was calling him off. This suggests to me that although the individual had fired a shot into the sky, the exigency as to nearby innocents had not ripened. It will be interesting to see if there is an investigation of any kind or even a public demand for one.

BrianW
04-14-2015, 10:55 PM
I suspect it is not policy and procedure.

The officer driving the vehicle that hit the individual should be immediately suspended and an investigation into possible felony charges should promptly commence.

Agreed.


If he will not surrender, then he is to be surrounded and shot if he will not comply.

Disagree, on 2 points.

#1 If you surround your target and shoot, there is a chance of friendly fire.

#2 If surrounded, and no danger to anyone else (other than police, who signed up for that in the first place) the police can just wait it out.

Sky Blue
04-14-2015, 10:57 PM
Good points, Brian. Caveat: when I say "surround" I mean "contain." In other words, he isn't going anywhere and is going to have to shoot his way out (and of course, probably die). Maybe that wasn't possible.

L.W. Baxter
04-14-2015, 10:59 PM
The fact that he drives at speed around another police cruiser to hit the guy does not look particularly good.

Sky Blue
04-14-2015, 11:01 PM
Nor does the officer's audible reaction to what he is witnessing. If the second officer employed proper procedure under the circumstances, was the first officer accordingly derelict in his duty by not executing that procedure earlier?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-14-2015, 11:10 PM
I think CNN said this officer had only been on the force for a year, but had come from another force... .but still relatively inexperienced.

BrianW
04-14-2015, 11:15 PM
I think CNN said this officer… …had come from another force...

Keystone Division?

Old Dryfoot
04-14-2015, 11:22 PM
Yet more ****** up ****. That's not police work, that's gangland thuggery.

purri
04-15-2015, 12:54 AM
No doubt they'll play some Wagner while undertaking their "strategic mission"...
Brutal. I bet that's gonna give the cops in choppers some crazy ideas.

Figment
04-15-2015, 07:51 AM
Conclusion: A good guy with a gun is NOT the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun.

The NRA is going to want a few words with this cop, I think.

jclays
04-15-2015, 10:17 AM
Brutal.... but good call by the officer. I'll take that move any day over the potential of innocents being injured by someone who is unpredictable, just robbed, is in possession of a fire arm and randomly discharging it.

George Jung
04-15-2015, 12:47 PM
Not enough info to know, but seems obvious the 'follow and contain' should've been POA. Good chance they'd have ended up shooting him; but don't have enough background info to really have many insights. Running him down, though? I'd think that officer would be charged.

Rich Jones
04-15-2015, 03:55 PM
I can just imagine the homeowner running out and screaming, " Hey! Who's gonna pay for my busted cinderblock fence and all this torn up landscaping!!"

BrianY
04-15-2015, 06:22 PM
I don't know what folks are complaining about. It looks perfectly reasonable to me. After all, if the cops had simply shot the guy, there'd be massive protests - well there would be if the guy was anything other than white. If he's white -hard to tell from the video -then they should have just shot him and spared the city the expensive repairs to the cruiser and the damaged private property. Nobody would have said a word. Assuming however that the guy was black, I'd call this "creative policing" with a particular sensitivity to the present state of police-public relations concerning police shootings. The driver should get an award from the department and city for sparing them from yet another "racist cop shoots minority civilian" controversy. Who has heard of anybody protesting a "racist cop runs over a minority civilian" incident recently? I certainly haven't, so it must be OK. Kudos to the cop for figuring out a way to "do what needs to be done" without subjecting his department and city to all that inflammatory media coverage and those pain in the butt protesters. If we had more cops like him, we wouldn't have to endure those endless news stories about cop shootings.

Of course, we might have to put up with an occasional expose on dramatic increases in cruiser repair costs and private property claims against police departments, but at least we wouldn't have to listen to more people whine and complain about police and guns and racism and that stuff.

Steve McMahon
04-15-2015, 09:41 PM
An interesting perspective. An interview with the Chief of police defending the actions of the officer that made the decision to take this guy out with his car.

http://www.statter911.com/2015/04/15/watch-this-media-lesson-police-chief-embraces-controversial-action-defends-it/

Sky Blue
04-15-2015, 09:58 PM
I agree that minds can remain open on these cases, but just because everyone ended up "safe" does not necessarily mean that laws and procedures were strictly followed or that this event should be representative of proper procedure in such cases. I am sympathetic to Brian Y's analysis as well, but if the officer had not executed that maneuver probably perfectly, this would be a very different kind of news story most likely.

Old Dryfoot
04-15-2015, 10:57 PM
What about next week when someone barricades themselves in a house? Lob a few incendiaries through the windows? Everyone will be safe, and the bad guy dealt with. But is that all that matters when it's all said and done? Is that ethical police work?

Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-15-2015, 11:05 PM
I'm sort of in the middle on this one.... it was a very cavalier act, but here we have a guy walking down the street with a 30-30 that he stole, as well as the other stuff. There is a "I'm crazy and I don't care" attitude here. Do you shoot it out with the guy and get a cop shot? Do you wait until he starts shooting at other people. Containing someone like this is a fair idea, but he breaks into a run and between houses, over fences.... what happens then. I would prefer the police take him out before anything further happens.... yet I understand the importance of protocol etc.

Breakaway
04-15-2015, 11:40 PM
What if a child had been hidden in the area of the collision and was killed?

What if the next bullet the guy with the rifle fired in the air came down and killed a child in the area?

Kevin

Phillip Allen
04-15-2015, 11:50 PM
careful... we're getting into the 'what if zone. no one can win/lose a what-if argument

BrianY
04-16-2015, 09:29 AM
What about next week when someone barricades themselves in a house? Lob a few incendiaries through the windows? Everyone will be safe, and the bad guy dealt with. But is that all that matters when it's all said and done? Is that ethical police work?

As long as the cops don't actually shoot someone - especially if that someone is a minority - then there's nothing to worry about. Take out perps with explosives, cars, missiles, tanks,...whatever, but just don't shoot them because the public doesn't like it when copes shoot people.

JimD
04-16-2015, 09:54 AM
Conclusion: A good guy with a gun is NOT the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun.

The NRA is going to want a few words with this cop, I think.
I think the NRA will be able to reach a compromise. There are still many situations where its not practical to be armed with a car. School teachers, for example, would have a difficult time running down armed students, at least in the classrooms and hallways.

Dannybb55
04-17-2015, 09:00 PM
Rock , paper scissors, glock, 30-30 winchester with soft tip bullets, 3 ton car..... car wins barely. My 30-30 always chambered soft point flat nosed ammo or sabbot because that is all that is for sale. The soft round doubles in diameter= 16mm on exit. I have shot clean holes through 1/2 inch steel plate off hand at 100 yards. A kevlar vest might stop the bullet but the energy transfer will break ribs and organs unless he misses the vest and hits the cop. I would gladly take some vacation time and ram a rifle man if all the I had was an Ithaca 12 bore and a p.o.s. 9mm parabellum. Hit the gas on this one Maxie and it's the duck's guts.

Reynard38
04-17-2015, 09:37 PM
. Hit the gas on this one Maxie and it's the duck's guts.

:) Last of the V8 interceptors.

bobbys
04-17-2015, 10:14 PM
Rock , paper scissors, glock, 30-30 winchester with soft tip bullets, 3 ton car..... car wins barely. My 30-30 always chambered soft point flat nosed ammo or sabbot because that is all that is for sale. The soft round doubles in diameter= 16mm on exit. I have shot clean holes through 1/2 inch steel plate off hand at 100 yards. A kevlar vest might stop the bullet but the energy transfer will break ribs and organs unless he misses the vest and hits the cop. I would gladly take some vacation time and ram a rifle man if all the I had was an Ithaca 12 bore and a p.o.s. 9mm parabellum. Hit the gas on this one Maxie and it's the duck's guts.
.

I'm no ballistics expert by any means.

I have shot deer with my 3030 and they fell over pretty hard and dead..

Had to give it up so I could use a scope with a bolt action.

Nicholas Scheuer
04-18-2015, 11:46 AM
What happened to "the old fashioned way"? Just shoot him in the back with your service pistol.

Gerarddm
04-20-2015, 11:10 AM
I think the public can differentiate between a genuine armed public threat ( this perp ) or not ( Eric Garner, for example ). Whether this guy is white, black, brown, green, or candy apple red metalflake, if he has a .30-.30 and is a threat, then definitive police action of some type is warranted. The issue is not the race of this guy; it is the most effective and proper way of removing the threat.

PhaseLockedLoop
04-20-2015, 11:29 AM
The soft round doubles in diameter= 16mm on exit. I have shot clean holes through 1/2 inch steel plate off hand at 100 yards.

Really? From a 30-30 with soft point bullets? Don't believe you.