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David G
04-13-2015, 09:19 PM
https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/21768_956643994380583_3243742092005922518_n.jpg?oh =ff9df05b53071222fcf83fb915261999&oe=55DD8BAF

Reynard38
04-13-2015, 09:29 PM
I think you're over reaching just a bit.

Not that I don't think she'll win. Of course she will. But only because the repubs will NEVER nominate an electable candidate. They might at well save the $$ and just concede now.

Jim Bow
04-13-2015, 09:37 PM
Never say "NEVER".

David G
04-13-2015, 09:38 PM
So... you agree, eh? It is amateur hour.

Reynard38
04-13-2015, 09:46 PM
Now that I think of it Hilary is the amateur.

Sure she got away with that whole Bengazi business. How many died, 4? Big deal.
W and his band of of merry men started 2 wars, killed or injured 10's of thousands of Americans, many more Iraqis and Afghanis. They spent a Trilliion dollars on these endeavors and not only did they get away Scott free, but many Americans still sing thier praises and keep thier Bush Cheney stickers on thier cars.
Now THATS a professional politician!

bamamick
04-14-2015, 07:43 AM
Wasn't President Obama considered an 'amateur' when he ran the first time? President Clinton? Mrs. Clinton has many qualifications as a candidate, I agree, but I also agree with the NPR discussion last night where they said she has essentially lived in the vacuum of big government since 1996 and really has no concept of what 'the people' are dealing with on a daily basis.

Mickey Lake

Kevin T
04-14-2015, 08:12 AM
Isn't that "Big Government Vacuum " a position from which all aspirants to the office begin their quest ?

The Bigfella
04-14-2015, 08:23 AM
Hillary is the most believable of the candidates. Anyone who's been under sniper fire is tough enough for me.

Keith Wilson
04-14-2015, 08:45 AM
. . . she has essentially lived in the vacuum of big government since 1996 and really has no concept of what 'the people' are dealing with on a daily basis. Unfortunately, this is true of everyone who has been rich and powerful for more than a little while. Remember George Bush the elder and the UPC scanner? It's an occupational hazard, unfortunately. One could make a rule: don't vote for anyone who doesn't do his own shopping and doesn't drive himself to work - but that would exclude almost all of them.

A better rule: look at the specifics of what they say they will do - not "I'll reduce unemployment". that's BS, but "I'll change the tax code like this". If you agree with it, vote for the person. Politicians pretty much try to do what they say they're going to do, although they don't always succeed. What else can you do?

Paul Pless
04-14-2015, 08:48 AM
but that would exclude almost all of them.works for me :D

Paul Pless
04-14-2015, 08:52 AM
A better rule: look at the specifics of what they say they will do - not "I'll reduce unemployment". that's BS, but "I'll change the tax code like this". If you agree with it, vote for the person. Politicians pretty much try to do what they say they're going to do, although they don't always succeed. What else can you do?
Yeah, um Hillary voted for the Bush Tax Cuts, Iraq War, extending NAFTA, Patriot Act, Wall Street bailouts, Bonuses for bankers. . .

Keith Wilson
04-14-2015, 09:04 AM
Yeah. So did a bunch of other Democrats, and pretty much all the Republicans. (And NAFTA is still a good idea.) No, I don't agree with her on everything she's done, nor everything she plans to do. OTOH, we are going to get a choice of two candidates, one of whom will be president. I can pretty much guarantee that I will disagree with the other candidate on about 99% of issues. My first priority is to keep Republicans out of the White House, because the amount of damage they could do, and the amount of suffering they could cause is quite large. I used to vote for Republicans sometimes, but the current state of the party pretty much guarantees I will never vote for another one as long as I live, and if anything I've moved right a bit over the years. The lesser of two evils is, as I said, less evil.

John Smith
04-14-2015, 09:21 AM
Now that I think of it Hilary is the amateur.

Sure she got away with that whole Bengazi business. How many died, 4? Big deal.
W and his band of of merry men started 2 wars, killed or injured 10's of thousands of Americans, many more Iraqis and Afghanis. They spent a Trilliion dollars on these endeavors and not only did they get away Scott free, but many Americans still sing thier praises and keep thier Bush Cheney stickers on thier cars.
Now THATS a professional politician!

You DO realize that a Republican led congressional committee cleared her, and Susan Rice, of any wrong doing in regards to Benghazi? You also realize, do you not, that the GOP blocked additional funding for security for embassies and consulates?

The GOP is going to have to throw something at Hillary that impresses more than the GOP base.

John Smith
04-14-2015, 09:22 AM
Unfortunately, this is true of everyone who has been rich and powerful for more than a little while. Remember George Bush the elder and the UPC scanner? It's an occupational hazard, unfortunately. One could make a rule: don't vote for anyone who doesn't do his own shopping and doesn't drive himself to work - but that would exclude almost all of them.

A better rule: look at the specifics of what they say they will do - not "I'll reduce unemployment". that's BS, but "I'll change the tax code like this". If you agree with it, vote for the person. Politicians pretty much try to do what they say they're going to do, although they don't always succeed. What else can you do?

That is an excellent point. It's not "what" they promise to do, but 'how' they intend to do it.

Bobby of Tulsa
04-14-2015, 09:25 AM
The Dems will throw Hillary under the bus the first chance they get. Just like last time:(

John Smith
04-14-2015, 09:28 AM
Yeah, um Hillary voted for the Bush Tax Cuts, Iraq War, extending NAFTA, Patriot Act, Wall Street bailouts, Bonuses for bankers. . .

Again, history continues to be misrepresented. Hillary, and others, did not vote for war. They voted for a congressional resolution to use military force IF NECESSARY to insure Saddam was in compliance with UN resolutions. There was no authorization in that resolution to remove Saddam. These words come directly from Hillary's floor speech and are her two primary reasons for voting for that resolution:
If we get the resolution that President Bush seeks, and if Saddam complies, disarmament can proceed and the threat can be eliminated. Regime change will, of course, take longer but we must still work for it, nurturing all reasonable forces of opposition.

If we get the resolution and Saddam does not comply, then we can attack him with far more support and legitimacy than we would have otherwise.

The historical facts are that Saddam did grant the inspectors access, which SHOULD have solved the problem. Bush yanked them once they had access, which screwed everything up. Had Bush simply allowed the inspectors to do their job, we would not have had the Iraq war.

And I don't think anyone voted for Wall Street bonuses. But I could be wrong.

Sky Blue
04-14-2015, 09:34 AM
my first priority is to keep Republicans out of the White House

I understand this motive. However, it is sad when one has no choice but to be animated by that which he opposes rather than that which he supports. That the Democrats do not appear to have an inspiring candidate suggests policy disarray and demoralization. HC is in play because she is the only candidate with the possibility of defeating the Republicans. Does anyone really know or care where she stands on critical issues?

Democrats are stuck in the "my turn" political rubric, which emphasizes personality over substance and is suggestive of stale, uninspiring policy.

Kevin T
04-14-2015, 09:41 AM
I understand this motive. However, it is sad when one has no choice but to be animated by that which he opposes rather than that which he supports. That the Democrats do not appear to have an inspiring candidate suggests policy disarray and demoralization. HC is in play because she is the only candidate with the possibility of defeating the Republicans. Does anyone really know or care where she stands on critical issues?

Democrats are stuck in the "my turn" political rubric, which emphasizes personality over substance and is suggestive of stale, uninspiring policy.

Are you suggesting that by contrast the Republicans offer something different in terms of policy?

RichKrough
04-14-2015, 09:44 AM
I have been a Democrat for 40 years. Never underestimate the ability of the Democratic party to FUBAR a "sure thing". If Jeb Bush becomes the GOP nominee, he will move the party platform to the center and Hillary will have a tough fight on her hands.

Gerarddm
04-14-2015, 09:46 AM
" Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic. Save the country". - Me

beernd
04-14-2015, 09:54 AM
I think you're over reaching just a bit.

Not that I don't think she'll win. Of course she will. But only because the repubs will NEVER nominate an electable candidate. They might at well save the $$ and just concede now.

I agree, so thet can give all that campaign money back to the rich. . . .Oh no! wait! |:(

Keith Wilson
04-14-2015, 09:56 AM
No, you misunderstand. I support most (not all) of the things Obama has done, and some I'm quite enthusiastic about. What I know of Ms. Clinton is that her preferred policies are generally similar. Perhaps I have more modest expectations of government than you do. I'm quite happy to vote for someone I think will make a bit of progress and not f**k things up too badly.

bamamick
04-14-2015, 10:01 AM
What a country we live in. The Congressmen set personal donation limits at $2700 per person to appease a public more than willing to believe that they are all up to their noses in corruption, and then they have $100K per plate dinners to support these super-pacs set up to influence policy. I am far from the poorest American and I know that I have no voice. What voice DO the poor have in this country? Heck, what voice do the upper middle class in this country have?

When I give myself time to worry about it I feel like just another one of the herd.

Mickey Lake

LeeG
04-14-2015, 10:15 AM
Now that I think of it Hilary is the amateur.

Sure she got away with that whole Bengazi business. How many died, 4? Big deal.
W and his band of of merry men started 2 wars, killed or injured 10's of thousands of Americans, many more Iraqis and Afghanis. They spent a Trilliion dollars on these endeavors and not only did they get away Scott free, but many Americans still sing thier praises and keep thier Bush Cheney stickers on thier cars.
Now THATS a professional politician!

"being strong on defense" and "shrinking the gov't" has to be one of the more idiotic platforms around.

Paul Pless
04-14-2015, 11:52 AM
OTOH, we are going to get a choice of two candidates, one of whom will be president. I can pretty much guarantee that I will disagree with the other candidate on about 99% of issues. My first priority is to keep Republicans out of the White House, because the amount of damage they could do, and the amount of suffering they could cause is quite large. I used to vote for Republicans sometimes, but the current state of the party pretty much guarantees I will never vote for another one as long as I live, and if anything I've moved right a bit over the years. The lesser of two evils is, as I said, less evil.When the best thing you can say about Hillary is that she's not a Republican. . .

Well ****, you and John Smith can have her.

Michael D. Storey
04-14-2015, 11:57 AM
" Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic. Save the country". - Me
The source of well thought out advice that I turn to first, last and always

Keith Wilson
04-14-2015, 12:05 PM
When the best thing you can say about Hillary is that she's not a Republican. . .That's not what I said, although not being a Republican is certainly a good thing. My point was that I'd probably agree with about 70% of what she'd do (rough guess), while I'd probably agree with less than 10% of what any of the Republican candidates would do. I think you probably would too, even if your numbers might be 50% and 10%. Sure, I'd like it to be 95%, but 70-10 is an excellent reason to vote for her. So is 50-10, for that matter.

David G
04-14-2015, 12:32 PM
I understand this motive. However, it is sad when one has no choice but to be animated by that which he opposes rather than that which he supports. That the Democrats do not appear to have an inspiring candidate suggests policy disarray and demoralization. HC is in play because she is the only candidate with the possibility of defeating the Republicans. Does anyone really know or care where she stands on critical issues?

Democrats are stuck in the "my turn" political rubric, which emphasizes personality over substance and is suggestive of stale, uninspiring policy.

In normal times... it would be not only sad, but counter-productive. These are not normal times.

Reynard38
04-14-2015, 01:01 PM
You DO realize that a Republican led congressional committee cleared her, and Susan Rice, of any wrong doing in regards to Benghazi? You also realize, do you not, that the GOP blocked additional funding for security for embassies and consulates?

The GOP is going to have to throw something at Hillary that impresses more than the GOP base.

Like I said, she got off Scot free, just like W and his posse. Teflon coated, all of them.
John I don't like ANY of them. I'm non partisan. I don't trust, or believe either side.

Sky Blue
04-14-2015, 01:09 PM
In normal times... it would be not only sad, but counter-productive. These are not normal times.

Alright.

Keith Wilson
04-14-2015, 01:46 PM
You don't have to like any of them. You do have to get out and vote for the one you think will do the least harm.

beernd
04-14-2015, 02:32 PM
You don't have to like any of them. You do have to get out and vote for the one you think will do the least harm.

That's it vote for the lessest stupidest one, that's what I do, (well I hope that's what I do) :rolleyes: