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Tom Montgomery
04-11-2015, 04:46 AM
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--syxOHIfN--/ykdkqhstdm1ptubyuct2.jpg

Dumah
04-11-2015, 05:55 AM
And we wonder why higher education is out of reach for most? Seems an awful waste of talent, to me.

Dumah

Paul Pless
04-11-2015, 06:00 AM
I'm not sure that coaches pay, or athletics in general has much to with the high cost of college.

skuthorp
04-11-2015, 06:02 AM
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?190701-From-the-Ignorance-is-Bliss-files!!

QED

SMARTINSEN
04-11-2015, 06:08 AM
I'm not sure that coaches pat, or athletics in general has much to with the high cost of college
No but it shows what our priorities as a nation are, sadly.

Dumah
04-11-2015, 06:13 AM
I'm not sure that coaches pat, or athletics in general has much to with the high cost of college

And where does the cash come from in order to pay these university EMPLOYEES? Not all of the money is from the taxpayer, even up here.

Dumah

Paul Pless
04-11-2015, 06:43 AM
And where does the cash come from in order to pay these university EMPLOYEES? Not all of the money is from the taxpayer, even up here.

DumahLet's take a special case, The University of Alabama. :)
Last year its football program generated $81.9 million, its football related expenses were $36.9 million, an operating profit of $45 million.
The men's basketball program generated $15.6 million and had expenses of $6 million, an operating profit of $9.6 million.
Those two programs together made $54.6 million and were the only two sports to generate a profit at The University. They took $33 million and funded the other 21 collegiate athletics programs at the University and returned the $21 million to the schools general operating fund. When looked at through that lens, Nick Saban's $6.9 million dollar salary doesn't look so bad now does it? During his tenure as head coach, football revenues have increased by more than thirty percent. . .

Dumah
04-11-2015, 07:01 AM
All well and good these programmes make money to support the uni, but how does this benifit the non athletic student? Would a "financially challanged" student expect lower tuition as a direct result? Not trying to be a smarta$$, just attempting to connect the dots.

Dumah

Paul Pless
04-11-2015, 07:03 AM
All well and good these programmes make money to support the uni, but how does this benifit the non athletic student? Would a "financially challanged" student expect lower tuition as a direct result? Not trying to be a smarta$$, just attempting to connect the dots.

Dumah
and returned the $21 million to the school's general operating fund....

Dumah
04-11-2015, 07:35 AM
Does this translate into financial help for those deserving or merely "holding the line" on ALL tuition?

Dumah

oznabrag
04-11-2015, 08:17 AM
Does this translate into financial help for those deserving or merely "holding the line" on ALL tuition?

Dumah

Good question.

Did that $21M go to reducing costs, or merely bloating the budget?

Did the board of regents use that money to build scholarships for people who can't play football, for example, or just line their own pockets?

Keith Wilson
04-11-2015, 08:24 AM
As I said on the previous thread. that's highly offensive. If I were Emperor, public universities would teach and do research, NEVER run spectator sports programs. I don't give a &^@# whether they make money or not.

C. Ross
04-11-2015, 09:28 AM
If I were Emperor, public universities would teach and do research, NEVER run spectator sports programs.

Caesar, may we wear colored clothing and play musical instruments?

I understand the dark sides of college sports.

But people LIKE college sports. Half the people in the U.S. watch college football. (http://maristpoll.marist.edu/101-majority-of-u-s-residents-college-football-fans-…-nearly-half-watch-nfl-college-ball/) President Obama is interviewed filling out his March Madness bracket, and it gives people something to talk about at work.

If you read the article attached to the picture, coaching salaries themselves are largely not paid by taxpayers or students, though athletic departments on average run at a loss and use tax and tuition dollars.

But I don't see how paying a college coach a couple million dollars means results in doctors, firefighters, police officers or teachers less. Any evidence for that?

Phillip Allen
04-11-2015, 09:41 AM
I am always amazed at the number of people who find themselves defending the sport corruption... often with lines like "You can't prove that!"

just how much smoke does it take to cause YOU to worry?

Keith Wilson
04-11-2015, 09:42 AM
Caesar, may we wear colored clothing and play musical instruments?Oh, it's not rational, I'll be the first to admit. There's just something profoundly irritating to me about enormous college sports programs; that's not at all what colleges are supposed to be about. Of course, you'd have to look pretty far to find someone with less interest in football or basketball than me. It's probably a good thing I'm not emperor. ;)

Paul Pless
04-11-2015, 10:21 AM
Good question.

Did that $21M go to reducing costs, or merely bloating the budget?

Did the board of regents use that money to build scholarships for people who can't play football, for example, or just line their own pockets?I don't know. At Alabama, they say the 'profit' goes to the general fund, that seems to indicate it benefits the entire university. Lets not forget that the football program and men's basketball program fund the other twenty one sports programs, including all of the title ix sports. That's a total of more than 500 athletic scholarships.

Kevin T
04-11-2015, 10:29 AM
Oh, it's not rational, I'll be the first to admit. There's just something profoundly irritating to me about enormous college sports programs; that's not at all what colleges are supposed to be about. Of course, you'd have to look pretty far to find someone with less interest in football or basketball than me. It's probably a good thing I'm not emperor. ;)

Look no further as they have yet to make the meter that can measure my indifference to college sports.

And don't get me started on the pros, a bunch of grown men playing a game we played all day for free as kids and now as adults they are paid more money than any of them would likely see in 10 lifetimes in any another field and then they complain incessantly about how they're being mistreated and disrespected.:arg

Canoeyawl
04-11-2015, 11:13 AM
Let's take a special case, The University of Alabama. :)
Last year its football program generated $81.9 million, its football related expenses were $36.9 million, an operating profit of $45 million.
The men's basketball program generated $15.6 million and had expenses of $6 million, an operating profit of $9.6 million.
Those two programs together made $54.6 million and were the only two sports to generate a profit at The University. They took $33 million and funded the other 21 collegiate athletics programs at the University and returned the $21 million to the schools general operating fund. When looked at through that lens, Nick Saban's $6.9 million dollar salary doesn't look so bad now does it? During his tenure as head coach, football revenues have increased by more than thirty percent. . .

How many teachers or professors would 33 million dollars a year buy? Or scholarships?
We would be better served by colleges having contests of brains, not brawn.

Pathetic, and unsustainable in the long run.

hokiefan
04-11-2015, 04:21 PM
Let's take a special case, The University of Alabama. :)
Last year its football program generated $81.9 million, its football related expenses were $36.9 million, an operating profit of $45 million.
The men's basketball program generated $15.6 million and had expenses of $6 million, an operating profit of $9.6 million.
Those two programs together made $54.6 million and were the only two sports to generate a profit at The University. They took $33 million and funded the other 21 collegiate athletics programs at the University and returned the $21 million to the schools general operating fund. When looked at through that lens, Nick Saban's $6.9 million dollar salary doesn't look so bad now does it? During his tenure as head coach, football revenues have increased by more than thirty percent. . .


How many teachers or professors would 33 million dollars a year buy? Or scholarships?
We would be better served by colleges having contests of brains, not brawn.

Pathetic, and unsustainable in the long run.

So when you do the math Bama spent about $76 million on athletics and generated $21 million for the University. It is very unusual BTW, for athletics to give money to the school, it happens, but most athletic programs just barely break even. But athletic revenue in general comes from ticket & concession sales, TV money, and specific donations. You could argue the money could be better spent, but people spend it for their entertainment. The world needs entertainment and different people like different brands. I like college football, others like ballet. To each his own.

Anyway, that all sounds like a huge amount of money. But a top 50 research university is spending WAY more money just on the research budget. According to this list Va Tech ranked a modest #40, and spends $454 million in research, $188 million of that in my favorite engineering school. The top R&D universities are spending over a Billion in research per year. You can argue degrees, but I think the priorities are generally right.

http://www.bestcolleges.com/features/colleges-with-highest-research-and-development-expenditures/

Cheers,

Bobby

Dan McCosh
04-11-2015, 06:42 PM
The head of the Detroit Zoo is paid more than the president of the United States.

C. Ross
04-11-2015, 07:38 PM
The head of the Detroit Zoo is paid more than the president of the United States.

Yeah, but he had a better year than the President of the United States.

(apologies to Babe Ruth)

Canoeyawl
04-11-2015, 08:16 PM
The head of the Detroit Zoo is paid more than the president of the United States.

The beasts in the zoo are far more sophisticated than the population at large.

Paul Pless
04-11-2015, 08:17 PM
The beasts in the zoo are far more sophisticated than the population at large.a few of their big cats are rescues from detroit area crack houses

Paul Pless
04-11-2015, 08:18 PM
seriously

Bobby of Tulsa
04-11-2015, 08:23 PM
I read in the news that the new superintendent of Tulsa public schools would get $235,000 a year plus benifits. They should treat the teachers so good.

Keith Wilson
04-11-2015, 09:32 PM
I dunno - the Tulsa school system has about 3000 employees (link (http://www.tulsaschools.org/4_About_District/_documents/pdf/_school_profiles/District.pdf)), with a budget of $552 million (2009-10 numbers). $235K doesn't seem at all out of line for somebody running an operation of that size.

CWSmith
04-11-2015, 09:37 PM
Is there a source for post #1?

Keith Wilson
04-11-2015, 09:41 PM
Look here. (http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/contract-approved-new-tulsa-public-schools-superin/nkqLS/) It's from a local Fox affiliate, but they can probably get a number right.

CWSmith
04-11-2015, 09:51 PM
^ That's about one person - no national stats.

Keith Wilson
04-11-2015, 10:02 PM
Ooops, sorry I was still thinking about the Tulsa School superintendent. Here's the site with the map. (http://deadspin.com/infographic-is-your-states-highest-paid-employee-a-co-489635228) It doesn't give a detailed source for the data.

CWSmith
04-11-2015, 10:23 PM
Thank you.

I do have issues with college sports. Unlike the examples given, most colleges pay more for their programs than revenue produces. Few college presidents have the courage to stand up to public opinion on this, so they cut the education programs. I've been watching the problem grow for 40 years starting with the Maryland football coach saying that the Astroturf on the practice field would save laundry costs for uniforms. I mean, the other team would smell them coming! Then there was the member of the William and Mary BOD who said "William and Mary is known for it's football!" Keep in mind W&M is the alma mater of Thomas Jefferson and he played fiddle. People are stupid when it comes to college sports.

Norman Bernstein
04-11-2015, 10:40 PM
Let's take a special case, The University of Alabama. :)
Last year its football program generated $81.9 million, its football related expenses were $36.9 million, an operating profit of $45 million.
The men's basketball program generated $15.6 million and had expenses of $6 million, an operating profit of $9.6 million.
Those two programs together made $54.6 million and were the only two sports to generate a profit at The University. They took $33 million and funded the other 21 collegiate athletics programs at the University and returned the $21 million to the schools general operating fund. When looked at through that lens, Nick Saban's $6.9 million dollar salary doesn't look so bad now does it? During his tenure as head coach, football revenues have increased by more than thirty percent. . .

All this really demonstrates is that for many schools, college athletics is a money-making business, for which, the employees get paid bupkes, and not in cash, but in scholarships to learn Swahili.

Not hard to make money, when the labor is free.

hokiefan
04-11-2015, 10:51 PM
All this really demonstrates is that for many schools, college athletics is a money-making business, for which, the employees get paid bupkes, and not in cash, but in scholarships to learn Swahili.

Not hard to make money, when the labor is free.

I guess that explains why only a handful of Div 1 athletic programs run in the black. Very few have money left over to give to the school, probably less than a dozen out of 120 Div 1 football schools. The folks making money off of college athletics are the television networks.

Cheers,

Bobby

Peter Malcolm Jardine
04-11-2015, 10:55 PM
I can be pretty confident when I say that there isn't a University or College in Canada where the coach is the highest paid employee.

oznabrag
04-12-2015, 09:24 AM
... athletic departments on average run at a loss and use tax and tuition dollars...[QUOTE=C. Ross;4508442]

That is my understanding.

[QUOTE=C. Ross;4508442]...But I don't see how paying a college coach a couple million dollars ... results in doctors, firefighters, police officers or teachers less. Any evidence for that?

I, for one, can produce no such evidence.

However, there are elements of this college sports phenomenon that we can observe.

First, Paul brings in the Bama Machine to make his point, then you point out that the average school loses money.

Taken together, these two points would seem to indicate that Bama is winning big at college sports betting in a completely different way from what we would normally consider.

It seems to me that the schools that are below average are indirectly subsidizing those Bama scholarships.

Looked at from that angle, we should ask ourselves why we would never consider allowing some child to beat another child out of his lunch money, but we are comfortable with having smaller, less affluent schools feel compelled to lose money in support of an activity that allows Bama to [B]profit $21,000,000.00.




I don't know. At Alabama, they say the 'profit' goes to the general fund, that seems to indicate it benefits the entire university. Lets not forget that the football program and men's basketball program fund the other twenty one sports programs, including all of the title ix sports. That's a total of more than 500 athletic scholarships.

George Jung
04-12-2015, 09:49 AM
As much as I enjoy college athletics, I consider it a 'pox' on our education 'system'. Have schools for education; club sports for entertainment.

Not a very popular sentiment here in Husker land.

Tom Montgomery
04-12-2015, 10:25 AM
Participation in organized athletics is a part of a well-rounded education.

Simply eliminate athletic scholarships. Allow kids to enter professional sports straight out of high school just as they may enter the rest of the job market or join the military to fight and die in foreign wars.

College scholarships would be based strictly on need.

ahp
04-12-2015, 10:30 AM
As much as I enjoy college athletics, I consider it a 'pox' on our education 'system'. Have schools for education; club sports for entertainment.

Not a very popular sentiment here in Husker land.

I graduated from the University of Michigan in 1955, and I agree with your sentiment. Earnings from the U of M football team could only be used for athletics, by state law, so football supported the minor sports, and there were many of them. The campus was well sprinkled with walk-on tennis courts, and that was a good thing.

I could brag about the size of the U of M library, the length of the ship model towing tank and the Guggenheim Fellows in the engineering department.

ahp
04-12-2015, 10:36 AM
I should also add that back then one could go to this very good public university for $90 per semester (in-state) or $230 per semester (out-of-state) tuition. R and B would be about $500 per semester. Yes we have had inflation since then, but not that much!

CWSmith
04-12-2015, 11:48 AM
I can be pretty confident when I say that there isn't a University or College in Canada where the coach is the highest paid employee.

Once again, very reasonable.