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View Full Version : Will Bernie Sanders be Hillary's Nader?



John Smith
04-09-2015, 06:09 PM
I like Sanders. I liked Nader.

The huge support swelling for Sanders worries me. He is NOT a Democrat, but an Independent, as was Nader.

Just like Nader siphoned votes from Gore and gave us G.W., Sanders will siphon off votes from Clinton, and we'll have a president Cruz, Paul, Walker, or such.

Tom Montgomery
04-09-2015, 06:43 PM
Do you have information indicating Sanders is contemplating running as a third party candidate for POTUS?

If not, why worry?

John Smith
04-09-2015, 06:46 PM
Bernie Sanders is absolutely exploring running. He's been traveling the country. Larry Wilmore last night asked him directly, and he responded it's a definite possibility. Ed Schultz seems to want him to, because, he believe, Hillary needs a primary opponent. Ed forgets, it seems, Sanders is not a Democrat.

So, yes, it is a distinct possibility.

Paul Pless
04-09-2015, 06:49 PM
Sanders is not a Democrat.he's officially an independent, but caucuses with dems, he'd almost certainly run as one

xflow7
04-09-2015, 06:52 PM
I'm with Paul. If he runs, I bet it's as a Democrat. He's pragmatic enough to realize that running as an independent will only jeopardize the larger progressive cause and I don't think he's ego-driven enough to do it just because. His aim in running will be to steer the discourse and he'll have plenty of opportunity to do that via the Democratic primaries given how small that field is likely to be.

Paul Pless
04-09-2015, 06:54 PM
besides, as much as he will hate to do it, he'll need the money. . .

SMARTINSEN
04-09-2015, 06:55 PM
I like Sanders. I liked Nader.

The huge support swelling for Sanders worries me. He is NOT a Democrat, but an Independent, as was Nader.

Just like Nader siphoned votes from Gore and gave us G.W., Sanders will siphon off votes from Clinton, and we'll have a president Cruz, Paul, Walker, or such.

Assumes a fact not in evidence.

RonW
04-09-2015, 06:59 PM
I hope Bernie runs, he is entertaining to say the least, but the question might not be if he runs, but if hillary actually runs as the scandals get deeper and deeper, beside about 1/3 of the dems are already looking around to see who they can replace her with.

Cuyahoga Chuck
04-10-2015, 12:19 AM
I admired Nader for many years . But when his his run for president drained votes from Gore and handed the presidency to Bush I realised he wasn't playing with a full deck. I view the present situation in the same light. This country needs to keep a Democrat in the White House. The need is dire. Any fanciful talk about alternative Democratic candidates is just chit-chat. Whichever Democrat can command a big pile of electoral votes is THE one. No others need apply.

John Smith
04-10-2015, 09:33 AM
I don't think Sanders CAN run as a Democrat. Yes, he can change parties, but that will immediately destroy his image.

My view at this point is many believe Hillary NEEDS to go through a primary. I think that's narrow minded thinking.

She does need to be heard. The GOP will have primary debates. I'd be inclined to think she could be asked all the questions they were asked and give her view on those issues.

Warren was on the Daily Show last night. I haven't gone there yet, but I'm sure anyone interested won't have any trouble finding the link.

Paul Pless
04-10-2015, 09:40 AM
It is the epitome of ridiculousness to think for a moment that Hillary won't have a primary challenger.

Norman Bernstein
04-10-2015, 09:47 AM
It is the epitome of ridiculousness to think for a moment that Hillary won't have a primary challenger.

Only slightly less ridiculous is this notion of any 'groundswell' of support for Sanders. The only other Democrat with even a hint of 'groundswell' would be Elizabeth Warren.... and I don't believe she wants to run, or intends to run.

(I don't discount the possibility that some strange set of events might change Warren's mind, or that she might not consider a #2 spot on the ticket.... strange things always happen in elections. The only thing I'm sure of is that if Sanders makes a serious attempt to run, it will damage the Democratic chances... and if he runs as an independent, he'll become the same sort of spoiler that Nader was, and if nothing else, my opinion of the guy (not all that high, to begin with) will drop to rock bottom)

Paul Pless
04-10-2015, 10:07 AM
you sure are sounding anti democratic, pathetic really
wishing to drown out alternative voices just so your mainstream establishment candidate has an easier go of it is pretty busch
the whole point of an extended campaign season should be one of at least a little bit of honest dialogue to move the individual prties as well as the nation forward a bit

RonW
04-10-2015, 10:10 AM
Norman Bernstein --
Only slightly less ridiculous is this notion of any 'groundswell' of support for Sanders. The only other Democrat with even a hint of 'groundswell' would be Elizabeth Warren.... and I don't believe she wants to run, or intends to run.

So why would anyone want Hillary to run in a uncontested race, unless of course it is damage control from being beaten from within as was done in 2008.

Which are signs of a very poor and unqualified candidate. Other contenders for the democrat candidate might be governeor Omally, governor Coumo, Governor Brown, vice president joe biden and the list goes on..No free ride for unqualified candidates or unvetted candidates as was done in 2008.

John Smith
04-10-2015, 10:16 AM
Only slightly less ridiculous is this notion of any 'groundswell' of support for Sanders. The only other Democrat with even a hint of 'groundswell' would be Elizabeth Warren.... and I don't believe she wants to run, or intends to run.

(I don't discount the possibility that some strange set of events might change Warren's mind, or that she might not consider a #2 spot on the ticket.... strange things always happen in elections. The only thing I'm sure of is that if Sanders makes a serious attempt to run, it will damage the Democratic chances... and if he runs as an independent, he'll become the same sort of spoiler that Nader was, and if nothing else, my opinion of the guy (not all that high, to begin with) will drop to rock bottom)

Warren has made it quite clear she won't run. We actually need her, and Sanders, in the senate.

I have no problem with primaries in the democratic party. I'm only pointing out in this thread that Sanders will lose a great deal of his support if he becomes a Democrat in order to run. If he runs as an Independent, which he says is likely, he may help elect a Republican.

There are a few Democrats pondering a run. The guy from Rhode Island seems to be thinking about it.

I just don't want to see another Nader/Gore election. Any Democrat who wishes to run I have no problem with.

John Smith
04-10-2015, 10:19 AM
you sure are sounding anti democratic, pathetic really
wishing to drown out alternative voices just so your mainstream establishment candidate has an easier go of it is pretty busch
the whole point of an extended campaign season should be one of at least a little bit of honest dialogue to move the individual prties as well as the nation forward a bit

Sorry it sounds that way. I'm not trying to drown out anyone. I'm open to Hillary having challengers. I've only said I don't think having a primary battle in her party is necessarily the only way to get her views on issues out. But anyone who wishes to run is welcome to.

This thread is about Sanders. He has most definitively been testing the waters, and is seriously thinking of running. That's according to him. I don't think there is any question that if he does so he risks electing a Ted Cruz. That is a risk that is not created by other Democrats running.

Norman Bernstein
04-10-2015, 11:19 AM
you sure are sounding anti democratic, pathetic really
wishing to drown out alternative voices just so your mainstream establishment candidate has an easier go of it is pretty busch

You couldn't be more wrong (but you are, and with increasing frequency.... so take THAT, why don't ya! :) )

I'd love for Hillary to have a credible challenger. In fact, I wish the Democratic party would have a more credible candidate, period. Hillary is certainly NOT my idea of an ideal candidate, and the mistake you make when you accuse me of being an apologist, of sorts, for her, is that you think I am a big fan of the woman.

I'm not. I never was. All I am is a guy who thinks that ANY of the Republican candidates, if elected, would set this country back by a decade or more.

But the fact of the matter is that the Democratic Party does not have another credible candidate. Bernie Sanders is not one of them.... ain't NOBODY thinks that the most leftward of all politicians is 'credible', on a national basis. Elizabeth Warren WOULD be a somewhat more credible candidate, except that her portfolio is way too narrowly focused on economic issues, and she's got NO cred on international issues.


the whole point of an extended campaign season should be one of at least a little bit of honest dialogue to move the individual prties as well as the nation forward a bit

I don't think that's the 'whole point' of an extended campaign season, at all. There is no point to an extended campaign season... it just got that way.

John Smith
04-10-2015, 11:26 AM
You couldn't be more wrong (but you are, and with increasing frequency.... so take THAT, why don't ya! :) )

I'd love for Hillary to have a credible challenger. In fact, I wish the Democratic party would have a more credible candidate, period. Hillary is certainly NOT my idea of an ideal candidate, and the mistake you make when you accuse me of being an apologist, of sorts, for her, is that you think I am a big fan of the woman.

I'm not. I never was. All I am is a guy who thinks that ANY of the Republican candidates, if elected, would set this country back by a decade or more.

But the fact of the matter is that the Democratic Party does not have another credible candidate. Bernie Sanders is not one of them.... ain't NOBODY thinks that the most leftward of all politicians is 'credible', on a national basis. Elizabeth Warren WOULD be a somewhat more credible candidate, except that her portfolio is way too narrowly focused on economic issues, and she's got NO cred on international issues.



I don't think that's the 'whole point' of an extended campaign season, at all. There is no point to an extended campaign season... it just got that way.

That pretty much sums up my feeling. I do NOT want a Republican president. I have nothing against primaries for dems. I'm merely pointing out, as many seem not to realize, that Sanders is NOT a Democrat. He would be a Nader, and if he does run as an Independent, as Nader did, he might have the same impact.

Only thing I would add is that I cannot remember an ideal candidate ever.

SullivanB
04-10-2015, 11:32 AM
It is the epitome of ridiculousness to think for a moment that Hillary won't have a primary challenger.

It's worse to think that she shouldn't have a serious primary challenger.

Paul Pless
04-10-2015, 12:11 PM
I don't think that's the 'whole point' of an extended campaign season, at all. There is no point to an extended campaign season... it just got that way.note that i said 'should be'. . .

Gerarddm
04-10-2015, 12:19 PM
I like Bernie a lot, which is why I wrote him in in the 2012 presidential election.

Howsoever, there is no groundswell for him. I get a lot of Bernie posts in my Facebook account, and his posts always have the same 20,000-30,000 'likes'. If there was a true ground swell that number would be increasing.

Successfully running for president involves substance and optics. Bernie is not strong on the optics. For one thing, his speaking style is almost unintelligible at times. But if he does run, even if just to influence the conversation, he certainly would run as a Democrat, the same reason than Ron Paul ran as a Republican the last two times he tried: more exposure.

Hillary does need some primary pre-season workouts though. I see Linc Chafee of RI is mooting getting in; nice guy, but no. No one with a center part in their hair has been president. O'Malley is completely unknown, and what differentiates him? Webb may be too conservative for the Democratic base. The only real danger I see for Clinton at the moment is Liz Warren, and she won't do it.

This coming election foreign policy expertise will be more important given the world situation, and in that department Clinton has it all over any other opponent, Republican or Democrat.

Norman Bernstein
04-10-2015, 12:45 PM
The REAL reason Bernie Sanders can't be President... aside from his left wing politics?

He sounds like a New York Jew.... and, in fact, he WAS originally a New York Jew, and the' Brooklyn' never left his accent.

Sorry to have to say it, but I'm not surprised that we'd have an African American President before we ever have a Jewish one... and, I'd bet the house, that we'll have a woman President before we have a Jewish one, too. There may be less antisemitism than there is racism, in this country... but that doesn't mean that it doesn't still exist.

WI-Tom
04-10-2015, 02:04 PM
What we really need is a revamp of the electoral system to allow for run-off elections. Then people could actually vote for the person they think is the best in round #1 (Nader, Sanders, whoever) without feeling like they are throwing the election to the enemy by doing so.

I suspect if that's how we ran our elections, independents and third party candidates would have much more success. (Which is why it'd be a difficult change to push through).