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Norman Bernstein
03-17-2015, 10:41 AM
It took less than a minute for Tom Cotton, who has been a senator for all of a couple of months, to invoke it... in his very first speech on the floor, no less.


WASHINGTON -- It's hard to believe freshman Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) caused such a stir in the Senate with his letter to Iran even before his maiden floor speech. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), who led an unsuccessful fight against Obamacare, couldn't even do that.

But Cotton -- now famous for orchestrating the controversial letter to Iran (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/14/gop-iran-letter-criticism_n_6868398.html) with the signatures of 46 of his GOP colleagues -- finally got the chance to do just that on Monday evening. Cotton began, as one does, with Adolf Hitler.

"The world is growing ever more dangerous, and our defense spending is wholly inadequate to confront the danger," Cotton said. "To be exact, during the last four or five years, the world has grown gravely darker. We have steadily disarmed, partly with a sincere desire to give a lead to other countries and partly due to the severe financial pressure of the time. But a change must now be made. We must not continue longer on a course in which we alone are growing weaker while every other nation is growing stronger."

He continued: "I wish I could take credit for those eloquent but ominous words, but I cannot. Winston Churchill sounded that warning in 1933 as Adolf Hitler had taken power in Germany. Tragically, Great Britain and the West didn't heed this warning, when they might have strangled that monster in his crib. Rather they let the locust continue to eat away at the common defense."

Keith Wilson
03-17-2015, 10:54 AM
Be afraid. Be very, very afraid. We've DISARMED!!! ISIS is going to invade, rape your sister, and cut off uncle Bill's head!

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/nervous/afraid.gif

http://pgpf.org/sites/default/files/sitecore/media%20library/PGPF/Chart-Archive/0053_defense-comparison-crop.gif

http://www.heritage.org/~/media/images/reports/2010/b2418_chart1_1/b2418_chart1_2.ashx
http://i.cfr.org/content/publications/July2013/010_national_defense_1948.png

John of Phoenix
03-17-2015, 11:05 AM
ISIS could use that speech as a recruiting video.

"This American says we could have the strength of the Third Reich. Join us and make it so!"

Paul Pless
03-17-2015, 11:09 AM
Be afraid. Be very, very afraid. We've DISARMED!!! ISIS is going to invade, rape your sister, and cut off uncle Bill's head!damn me

Paul Pless
03-17-2015, 11:10 AM
Tom Cottondude's a tool, plain and simple
be nice to hear phillip allen defend him, he voted for him afterall

Norman Bernstein
03-17-2015, 11:14 AM
dude's a tool, plain and simple
A tool who can get votes. THAT is the scary part.

This seems to be a pattern.... freshman radical fringe senators like Cruz and Cotton.... gawd only knows who is next.

Canoeyawl
03-17-2015, 11:15 AM
All this dangerous rhetoric from Arkansas doesn't make good sense and sent me looking for a reason. My first thought is who are the military contractors in Arkansas and how do they benefit from this?
A quick google search and it all became clear, too clear. Scary in fact, and reminiscent of the way Germany was manipulated (and ultimately destroyed) by Krupp.
Hitler was just a puppet for the military industrial complex of the era, which had quite a bit of support from US industry until it was time to actually choose a side.

So... Lockheed Martin, Brown and Root, and friends are driving Tom Cotton's bus.
"Arkansas Aerospace and Defense Alliance"
list of companies (http://www.arkansasaerospace.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=30&Itemid=265)

Paul Pless
03-17-2015, 11:16 AM
A tool who can get votes. THAT is the scary part.

This seems to be a pattern.... freshman radical fringe senators like Cruz and Cotton.... gawd only knows who is next.

Most of Cotton's voters claimed they supported him over Pryor because Pryor voted in support of the ACA.

David G
03-17-2015, 11:31 AM
It's official --

More Americans Want To Press Charges Against #47Traitors Than Deport Justin Bieber

hokiefan
03-17-2015, 11:35 AM
It's official --

More Americans Want To Press Charges Against #47Traitors Than Deport Justin Bieber

I propose we do both...

switters
03-17-2015, 11:41 AM
All this dangerous rhetoric from Arkansas doesn't make good sense and sent me looking for a reason. My first thought is who are the military contractors in Arkansas and how do they benefit from this?
A quick google search and it all became clear, too clear. Scary in fact, and reminiscent of the way Germany was manipulated (and ultimately destroyed) by Krupp.
Hitler was just a puppet for the military industrial complex of the era, which had quite a bit of support from US industry until it was time to actually choose a side.

So... Lockheed Martin, Brown and Root, and friends are driving Tom Cotton's bus.
"Arkansas Aerospace and Defense Alliance"
list of companies (http://www.arkansasaerospace.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=30&Itemid=265)

A double Godwins by post 7, well done, and so nuanced I bet you thought no one would notice.Y>

Canoeyawl
03-17-2015, 11:44 AM
Godwin is in these days...

oznabrag
03-17-2015, 12:11 PM
A double Godwins by post 7, well done, and so nuanced I bet you thought no one would notice.Y>

Really?

I was under the impression that Godwin's Law specifies that reference to the Third Reich would be spurious and ill-connected to the actual subject matter of the thread.

It seems to me that Canoeyawl made a valid and factual comparison between the behavior of Krupp and the MIC.

When I say that our Government has fallen into the hands of those who profit from political chaos, this is precisely what I mean.

Revolutions, coups, all-out interstate/intrastate wars and even the specter of such unrest, put many billions of dollars in the pockets of those who do not give one rip whether you live or die or vote or starve.

These are the people who enthusiastically arm both sides of a conflict, and they have bought your birthright for 27¢.

switters
03-17-2015, 12:18 PM
Yes really, though I suppose it is a ll a matter of perspective.

In the OP ISIS who has killed several men women and children, tried to or have taken over their homes, all based on religious preference, is a considered a Godwin law event.

This does not excuse Cotton as from being a total idiot, even a broken clock is twice a day.

Comparing a junior Senator from Arkansas to someone who used Jewish slave labor during war is spurious, IMHO.

David G
03-17-2015, 12:26 PM
Hmmm...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole) of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis – often referred to as "playing the Hitler card (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum)". The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany) such as genocide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide), eugenics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics), or racial superiority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_superiority), nor, more debatably, to a discussion of other totalitarian regimes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism) or ideologies[

Paul Pless
03-17-2015, 12:32 PM
Comparing a junior Senator from Arkansas to someone who used Jewish slave labor during war is spurious, IMHO.Diane Rehm had a couple of guest on this morning that analyzed ISIS at depth. They actually made an interesting ISIS/Nazi comaprison. ISIS is not even close to as effectively bad as the Nazi's. But the Nazi's kept the true nature of their violence hidden while ISIS publicizes it as much as possible.

Norman Bernstein
03-17-2015, 12:35 PM
Diane Rehm had a couple of guest on this morning that analyzed ISIS at depth. They actually made an interesting ISIS/Nazi comaprison. ISIS is not even close to as effectively bad as the Nazi's. But the Nazi's kept the true nature of their violence hidden while ISIS publicizes it as much as possible.

I heard a commentator on NPR, yesterday, arguing that ISIS is actually a death cult, rather than a political or religious movement.

Perhaps that was hyperbolic... but it seemed to me to be getting closer to the best description.

Osborne Russell
03-17-2015, 12:42 PM
Comparing a junior Senator from Arkansas to someone who used Jewish slave labor during war is spurious, IMHO.

Nazi Germany was built and operated using a multitude of people just like him saying the same things, adjusted for local circumstances of course, e.g. in German, not in English.

Irrelevant distinctions aside, it's the same thing.

I got your Godwin's law right here:

Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi Nazi


It's the same in every country. -- Hermann Goering

switters
03-17-2015, 12:52 PM
Krupp compared to MIC, not spurious.

Hitler compared to Cotton, spurious. I saw the post as comparing the vast MIC of Arkansas making cotton do what the MIC of 1938 Germany did with hitler.

Repeating the word Nazi in response to a post that was more reasoned than a personal cheap shot is not an actual instance of Godwin's law unless you amend it to compare me directly to a nazi. Why would anyone capitalize nazi anyway?

Keith Wilson
03-17-2015, 01:05 PM
Why would anyone capitalize nazi anyway?It's short for the proper name of a political party: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. (Just being a grammar Nazi. :D )

oznabrag
03-17-2015, 01:15 PM
It's short for the proper name of a political party: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. (Just being a grammar Nazi. :D )

Wouldn't that more properly be Grammar Nazi?

:D

Osborne Russell
03-17-2015, 01:17 PM
Krupp compared to MIC, not spurious.

Hitler compared to Cotton, spurious. I saw the post as comparing the vast MIC of Arkansas making cotton do what the MIC of 1938 Germany did with hitler.

Canoeyawl said his first thought was who are the MIC in Arkansas. I take that to mean, that's the best place to look first, not that the Arkansas people plus Cotton equal the Third Reich. The main point is . . .



Hitler was just a puppet for the military industrial complex of the era . . .

. . . which to my mind is among other things a denial of the Hitler as Evil Genius theory, i.e. it was Hitler that did it all. That used to be the favorite way to deflect parallels to America; now we have Godwin's Law.

Who the Hitler will turn out to be doesn't matter at this point. If we can't stop the familiar process before a Hitler emerges, we're not likely to stop it at all. Further, the process may not require one. We'll see, eh?

The comparison to be made now is Hitler compared to Cotton in terms of the willingness to be a puppet of the MIC, and the actions that demonstrate it. In that respect they are highly similar.


Repeating the word Nazi in response to a post that was more reasoned than a personal cheap shot is not an actual instance of Godwin's law unless you amend it to compare me directly to a nazi. Why would anyone capitalize nazi anyway?

This part I just don't follow.

oznabrag
03-17-2015, 01:19 PM
Krupp compared to MIC, not spurious.

Hitler compared to Cotton, spurious. I saw the post as comparing the vast MIC of Arkansas making cotton do what the MIC of 1938 Germany did with hitler.

Repeating the word Nazi in response to a post that was more reasoned than a personal cheap shot is not an actual instance of Godwin's law unless you amend it to compare me directly to a nazi. Why would anyone capitalize nazi anyway?

Two things. Cotton is a Senator, so he has national sway, and they aren't 'making' him do anything. He's a very, very nasty piece of work.

oznabrag
03-17-2015, 01:26 PM
Canoeyawl said his first thought was who are the MIC in Arkansas. I take that to mean, that's the best place to look first, not that the Arkansas people plus Cotton equal the Third Reich. The main point is . . .



. . . which to my mind is among other things a denial of the Hitler as Evil Genius theory, i.e. it was Hitler that did it all. That used to be the favorite way to deflect parallels to America; now we have Godwin's Law.

Who the Hitler will turn out to be doesn't matter at this point. If we can't stop the familiar process before a Hitler emerges, we're not likely to stop it at all. Further, the process may not require one. We'll see, eh?

The comparison to be made now is Hitler compared to Cotton in terms of the willingness to be a puppet of the MIC, and the actions that demonstrate it. In that respect they are highly similar...

If they can figure out how to do away with the Personality Cult aspect, then we are in real trouble.

You can bet they are working on it.

I think that may be the purpose of the Klown Kar.

So many screaming whackadoodles can't all be wrong, you know.

It's like a 'hive mind'. You can defeat the individuals, but the organism isn't appreciably weakened.

Keith Wilson
03-17-2015, 01:35 PM
Hitler was not a 'pawn' of the German MIC; that's very, very silly. Yes, they supported him, but it's not at all the same thing.

Nor is Mr. Cotton a 'pawn' of the US MIC; I'm pretty sure he more or less sincerely believes the drivel in the OP. The fact that some folks stand to make a lot of money from possible increases in military spending, and support politicians who seem likely to do this - this helps, but it's not at the bottom of it.

Concordia 33
03-17-2015, 02:50 PM
It took less than a minute for Tom Cotton, who has been a senator for all of a couple of months, to invoke it... in his very first speech on the floor, no less.

I take your point, but Godwins law really doesn't apply here.....


Godwin's Law (or Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#cite_note-GL_FAQ-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#cite_note-Godwin94-2) is an Internet adage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_humor) asserting that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almost_surely)"[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#cite_note-Godwin94-2)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#cite_note-Godwin95canonical_version-3)—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler) or Nazism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism). Despite being described as universal regarding the subject of the discussion, Godwin's law is more likely to be applicable to social topics (including politics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics), law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law), religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion), etc.).

Since it was a speech and not an online discussion the law has no real bearing. Moreover he was quoting Churchill vs a "comparison to Nazis or Hitler". So often this law is used to silence the discussion vs a direct challenge on the veracity of the persons premise.

Canoeyawl
03-17-2015, 03:02 PM
Gustave Krupp...
"In 1924, the Raw Steel Association (Rohstahlgemeinschaft) was established in Luxembourg, as a quota-fixing cartel for coal and steel, by France, Britain, Belgium, Luxembourg, Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Germany. Germany, however, chose to violate quotas and pay fines, in order to monopolize the Ruhr’s output and continue making high-grade steel. In 1926, Krupp began the manufacture of Widia (“Wie Diamant”) cobalt-tungsten carbide. In 1928, German industry under Krupp leadership put down a general strike, locking out 250,000 workers, and encouraging the government to cut wages 15%. In 1929, the Chrysler Building was capped with Krupp steel.
Gustav and especially Bertha were initially skeptical of Hitler, who was not of their class. Gustav's skepticism toward the Nazis waned when Hitler dropped plans to nationalize business, the Communists gained seats in the November 6 elections, and Chancellor Kurt von Schleicher suggested a planned economy with price controls. Despite this, as late as the day before President Paul von Hindenburg appointed Hitler Chancellor, Gustav warned him not to do so. However, after Hitler won power, Gustav became enamoured with the Nazis (Fritz Thyssen described him as "a super-Nazi") to a degree his wife and subordinates found bizarre.
In 1933, Hitler made Gustav chairman of the Reich Federation of German Industry. Gustav ousted Jews from the organization and disbanded the board, establishing himself as the sole-decision maker. Hitler visited Gustav just before the Röhm purge in 1934, which among other things eliminated many of those who actually believed in the "socialism" of "National Socialism."[ Gustav supported the "Adolf Hitler Endowment Fund of German Industry", administrated by Bormann, who used it to collect millions of Marks from German businessmen. As part of Hitler’s secret rearmament program, Krupp expanded from 35,000 to 112,000 employees."

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp)

Osborne Russell
03-18-2015, 09:11 PM
If they can figure out how to do away with the Personality Cult aspect, then we are in real trouble.

You can bet they are working on it.

I think that may be the purpose of the Klown Kar.

So many screaming whackadoodles can't all be wrong, you know.

It's like a 'hive mind'. You can defeat the individuals, but the organism isn't appreciably weakened.

Yeah. Hitler could make people believe that only he had the complete vision and the capacity to carry it out. Funny thing, it ended when he did, if not before.

The challenge is to keep it going past the life of one guy. The first thing that comes to mind is the puppet deal, but if it works, factions form, each promoting its own puppet, and it ultimately comes down to civil war. But man, can you make money, for a while.

Osborne Russell
03-18-2015, 09:16 PM
As part of Hitler’s secret rearmament program, Krupp expanded from 35,000 to 112,000 employees."

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp)

Sounds like each side believing it's making a puppet of the other. Gaining money and power so fast, there's no conflict between them that would require them to stop and examine it. It's working so well, keep it up, faster, faster, more, more!

oznabrag
03-18-2015, 09:26 PM
Yeah. Hitler could make people believe that only he had the complete vision and the capacity to carry it out. Funny thing, it ended when he did, if not before.

The challenge is to keep it going past the life of one guy. The first thing that comes to mind is the puppet deal, but if it works, factions form, each promoting its own puppet, and it ultimately comes down to civil war. But man, can you make money, for a while.

I'm saying that ALL the Klown Kar Kandidates are potential Personality Cult leaders.

There is not just a puppet Leader, there are a goodly number of stand-ins who could become the new Personality on short notice.

The level of propaganda and marketing expertise that can be brought to bear on the weak-minded is prodigious.

So the final solution is to generate fear, lies and hatred; prepare half a dozen stuffed-shirt imbeciles for the role of Personality, and let them know that the 'form a faction' fad is not going to be tolerated.

As many as six, interchangeable imbeciles to give State of the Union Addresses, and so forth, all the while hoping they don't get 'replaced'.


Wait...

Never mind.

We have that already!

Osborne Russell
03-18-2015, 09:38 PM
I see, that really would be a refinement. A stable, so to speak. Competition between them would keep them in line. If one should murder the rest, just take him out and start with a new batch. Not like there aren't enough of them ha ha ha ha ha ha

Keith Wilson
03-18-2015, 09:46 PM
http://cdn5.lastresistance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/paranoia.gif

oznabrag
03-18-2015, 09:53 PM
http://cdn5.lastresistance.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/paranoia.gif

Well, that's not very nice.

I think Mr. Russell agrees that the whole megalomaniacal psychopath drama has played out enough times to yield a whole lot of material for observation and analysis.

It is not paranoia to assume that those forces are at work in the world, sir, because the overwhelming evidence suggests that they have always been at work, and there's no reason to assume they've all of a sudden stopped.

Keith Wilson
03-18-2015, 10:46 PM
Perhaps I'm being too harsh. But when Tom Cotton says it's like 1938 all over again unless we get involved in another war, and then you and Osborne muse about how it's like 1932 in Germany - well, there's a certain symmetry, don't you think?

skuthorp
03-19-2015, 04:05 AM
Our PM fell foul of Mr Godwin's saw today as well, in the House, comparing the opposition leader to Dr Goebells………………
And our partisan speaker ejected Jewish members who objected.

Chris Woodward
03-19-2015, 08:18 AM
" ...even a broken clock is twice a day."

Old Dryfoot
03-19-2015, 08:56 AM
. . .our defense spending is wholly inadequate to confront the danger

Damn near fell out of my chair on this one.

Canoeyawl
03-19-2015, 09:01 AM
Sounds like each side believing it's making a puppet of the other. Gaining money and power so fast, there's no conflict between them that would require them to stop and examine it. It's working so well, keep it up, faster, faster, more, more!

That is what it sounds like and may be, but I find it a bit clever that a company as large as Krupp was much of a puppet. The comparison might be similar to the Wbush vs the Cheney-Halliburton machine. No contest really. Once it was decided a war was needed for corporate growth they only needed an unwitting fool as a mouthpiece.

bobbys
03-19-2015, 01:33 PM
It's not actully a violation of Godwin's law if they denie the holocaust and want to wipe Israel off the map.

Lew Barrett
03-19-2015, 02:37 PM
I can't fathom how so many have missed the point of Norman's OP. Cotton invoked/employed Godwin's Law in the second paragraph of his speech. Isn't that the point? Not that Cotton is a Nazi. Given his roots, he's probably (just guessin') more influenced by the KKK.


"The world is growing ever more dangerous, and our defense spending is wholly inadequate to confront the danger. To be exact, during the last four or five years, the world has grown gravely darker. We have steadily disarmed, partly with a sincere desire to give a lead to other countries and partly due to the severe financial pressure of the time. But a change must now be made. We must not continue longer on a course in which we alone are growing weaker while every other nation is growing stronger.

I wish I could take credit for those eloquent but ominous words, but I cannot. Winston Churchill sounded that warning in 1933 as Adolf Hitler had taken power in Germany. Tragically, Great Britain and the West didn't heed this warning, when they might have strangled that monster in his crib. Rather they let the locust continue to eat away at the common defense."

Both Cotton and ISIS suck. Iran? The theocratic leadership there sucks too. But they're doing a lot of the dirty work against ISIS now, so what to make of that?

hanleyclifford
03-19-2015, 02:46 PM
Sen Cotton is a little wet behind the ears, but in time he could be presidential material.

Kevin T
03-19-2015, 03:18 PM
Sen Cotton is a little wet behind the ears, but in time he could be presidential material.

Insert hysterically laughing emoji <here> :rolleyes:

oznabrag
03-19-2015, 03:34 PM
Perhaps I'm being too harsh. But when Tom Cotton says it's like 1938 all over again unless we get involved in another war, and then you and Osborne muse about how it's like 1932 in Germany - well, there's a certain symmetry, don't you think?

Uhhh, not to speak for Mr. Russell, but it is clear to ME that Mr. Cotton's remarks were intended to manipulate a certain sort of person with all the craftiness that was Goebbels. The propaganda industry of today view Goebbels as quaint and stodgy.

One of the rules seems to be that, because people are stupid AND ignorant, one has to simply ascribe one's ugliest deeds and qualities to Others, and those same stupid and ignorant will believe it and rally to you for protection from those Others. McCarthy was an adept.

In fact, this is the method adopted by the RRWs on this board. All bluster and no proof.

The fact that such people exist is no mystery.

That they should seek to become successful multi-generational totalitarians should be no mystery either. That's where the real money is! It's GOOD to be the King!



" ...even a broken clock is twice a day."

Excellent!


. . .our defense spending is wholly inadequate to confront the danger

Damn near fell out of my chair on this one.

Yup.


That is what it sounds like and may be, but I find it a bit clever that a company as large as Krupp was much of a puppet. The comparison might be similar to the Wbush vs the Cheney-Halliburton machine. No contest really. Once it was decided a war was needed for corporate growth they only needed an unwitting fool as a mouthpiece.

Yup.

There are people who refuse to grasp even the possibility that world domination as a life goal is not solely the province of Austin Powers films.


I can't fathom how so many have missed the point of Norman's OP. Cotton invoked/employed Godwin's Law in the second paragraph of his speech. Isn't that the point? Not that Cotton is a Nazi. Given his roots, he's probably (just guessin') more influenced by the KKK.
...

It is my contention that Cotton is projecting his inner Nazi onto whoever is handy.

Osborne Russell
03-19-2015, 04:02 PM
Well, that's not very nice.

I think Mr. Russell agrees that the whole megalomaniacal psychopath drama has played out enough times to yield a whole lot of material for observation and analysis.

It is not paranoia to assume that those forces are at work in the world, sir, because the overwhelming evidence suggests that they have always been at work, and there's no reason to assume they've all of a sudden stopped.

"Never again" as they implored us, after great sacrifice to put it down the first time. Were they wrong?

Osborne Russell
03-19-2015, 04:05 PM
Perhaps I'm being too harsh. But when Tom Cotton says it's like 1938 all over again unless we get involved in another war, and then you and Osborne muse about how it's like 1932 in Germany - well, there's a certain symmetry, don't you think?

Here's another: we're all speaking the same language. "Godwin's law" is questionable on it's own terms, half a joke.

More particularly, Cotton states; we muse.

Osborne Russell
03-19-2015, 04:06 PM
I can't fathom how so many have missed the point of Norman's OP. Cotton invoked/employed Godwin's Law . . .

Do you think "Godwin's law" clarifies or obscures?

Osborne Russell
03-19-2015, 04:08 PM
Uhhh, not to speak for Mr. Russell, but it is clear to ME that Mr. Cotton's remarks were intended to manipulate a certain sort of person with all the craftiness that was Goebbels. The propaganda industry of today view Goebbels as quaint and stodgy. One of the rules seems to be that, because people are stupid AND ignorant, one has to simply ascribe one's ugliest deeds and qualities to Others, and those same stupid and ignorant will believe it and rally to you for protection from those Others. McCarthy was an adept.


Yep.

Keith Wilson
03-19-2015, 07:58 PM
Here's a useful ROFLMAO emoji; feel free to C&P it as needed. http://r24.imgfast.net/users/2415/11/62/88/smiles/3562723908.gif

Godwin's law is an observation, not a judgement. Some people really do resemble Nazis.

Mr. Cotton's contention that 'we have disarmed' is complete and total bullsh!t.

oznabrag
03-19-2015, 08:26 PM
Here's a useful ROFLMAO emoji; feel free to C&P it as needed. http://r24.imgfast.net/users/2415/11/62/88/smiles/3562723908.gif

Godwin's law is an observation, not a judgement. Some people really do resemble Nazis.

Mr. Cotton's contention that 'we have disarmed' is complete and total bullsh!t.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Mr. Cotton is honest, or truthful.

Lew Barrett
03-19-2015, 08:54 PM
Do you think "Godwin's law" clarifies or obscures?

Never thought about it. It's too bad referencing people to the Nazis has fallen so out of favor. It's really fitting sometimes. The idea that we don't have an overwhelmingly powerful military is so ludicrous that this guy's pronouncements render him subject to the analogy, but I have to say, I thought Norman was simply pointing out that he invoked Hitler, thus bringing the Godwin thing to the fore.

These guys are so quick to call "Nazi" themselves, yet their limited, imperfect, even nonexistent knowledge of history doesn't permit them to see what part of the spectrum they themselves adhere to. Obscure? Not to me.

oznabrag
03-19-2015, 09:01 PM
Never thought about it. It's too bad referencing people to the Nazis has fallen so out of favor. It's really fitting sometimes. The idea that we don't have an overwhelmingly powerful military is so ludicrous that this guy's pronouncements render him subject to the analogy, but I have to say, I thought Norman was simply pointing out that he invoked Hitler, thus bringing the Godwin thing to the fore.

These guys are so quick to call "Nazi" themselves, yet their limited, imperfect, even nonexistent knowledge of history doesn't permit them to see what part of the spectrum they themselves adhere to. Obscure? Not to me.

Thanks, Lew.

If you look into the abyss of History, you won't see much unless it gazes also into you (apologies to Hesse).

Lew Barrett
03-19-2015, 09:22 PM
Hey John, no problem. If the shoe fits, they need to wear it. 'Literalists' are so boring. You invoke Godwin and the other guy says it doesn't fit because they aren't burning Jews. Then they say "it's the National Socialist Party, so they're socialists, just like you." They don't get that the Nazis weren't socialists and that you're not either. And, they fail to see the good in any social program, as if social itself were a dirty word.

No empathy, no sympathy, no foresight, no insight. Not even any hindsight and absolutely no polity. We will have a lot of 'splainin' to do because guilt is meted out to the collective. Ask the Germans.;)

Osborne Russell
03-20-2015, 01:07 PM
That is what it sounds like and may be, but I find it a bit clever that a company as large as Krupp was much of a puppet. The comparison might be similar to the Wbush vs the Cheney-Halliburton machine. No contest really. Once it was decided a war was needed for corporate growth they only needed an unwitting fool as a mouthpiece.

At some point, personality may play a vital role, turn the key, unlock the door, grease the skids, etc.

As you said:


However, after Hitler won power, Gustav became enamoured with the Nazis (Fritz Thyssen described him as "a super-Nazi") to a degree his wife and subordinates found bizarre.

If so then the study of the Red personality is vital.

Osborne Russell
03-20-2015, 01:12 PM
You invoke Godwin and the other guy says it doesn't fit because they aren't burning Jews.

Under the supposed authority of this "law" they can say any comparison to the Nazis is invalid because it's now later in time; because Hitler is dead, etc. It's absurd.

Lew Barrett
03-21-2015, 09:47 AM
Under the supposed authority of this "law" they can say any comparison to the Nazis is invalid because it's now later in time; because Hitler is dead, etc. It's absurd.

I've never taken the Godwin thing too seriously or given much thought to it except that if you make any reference to the Nazis on the net it provokes a new, diverted conversation about them, you and the meaning of life. The extreme right has great difficulty accepting that the Nazis define the outermost limits of their "philosophy." Valid, invalid, I don't know, I just thought it was some sort of saw in the vein of Murphy's Law; a convenient hook of sorts intended to amuse as much as explain.

bobbys
03-21-2015, 10:03 AM
I've never taken the Godwin thing too seriously or given much thought to it except that if you make any reference to the Nazis on the net it provokes a new, diverted conversation about them, you and the meaning of life. The extreme right has great difficulty accepting that the Nazis define the outermost limits of their "philosophy." Valid, invalid, I don't know, I just thought it was some sort of saw in the vein of Murphy's Law; a convenient hook of sorts intended to amuse as much as explain..

Right- Nazi- philosophy--------Godwin's law

oznabrag
03-21-2015, 10:41 AM
I've never taken the Godwin thing too seriously or given much thought to it except that if you make any reference to the Nazis on the net it provokes a new, diverted conversation about them, you and the meaning of life. The extreme right has great difficulty accepting that the Nazis define the outermost limits of their "philosophy." Valid, invalid, I don't know, I just thought it was some sort of saw in the vein of Murphy's Law; a convenient hook of sorts intended to amuse as much as explain.

I think that was certainly Godwin's intent.

What has happened is that, now, any reference to the Third Reich is ridiculed and swept under the rug by invoking Godwin's Law.

The same thing happens to pretty much any reference to the Nazis and/or their psychopathic, megalomaniacal brethren.

Hitler, Mao, Stalin, PolPot, Montezuma, you name it.

The result, of course, is that insight into the making of such horrors is obscured from popular viewing, while those histories and propaganda techniques are still readily available to the Psychotic Megalomaniacs of the world.

I very heartily recommend Mark Twain's 'The Man That Corrupted Hadleyburg' as a lighthearted cautionary tale against this.

Osborne Russell
03-21-2015, 11:50 AM
I think that was certainly Godwin's intent.

What has happened is that, now, any reference to the Third Reich is ridiculed and swept under the rug by invoking Godwin's Law.

. . . by Reds, except when they do it.

Lew Barrett
03-21-2015, 12:09 PM
.

Right- Nazi- philosophy--------Godwin's law

As usual, way wide of the mark or disconnected from the preceding comment.

bobbys
03-21-2015, 12:29 PM
As usual, way wide of the mark or disconnected from the preceding comment..

Valid or invalid, I dunno but I said it anyways just like you did.

Canoeyawl
03-21-2015, 01:23 PM
Sen Cotton is a little wet behind the ears, but in time he could be presidential material.

President of Arkansas maybe.

Cotton swabs might work for wet behind the ears...

Lew Barrett
03-21-2015, 06:33 PM
.

Valid or invalid, I dunno but I said it anyways just like you did.

I'm not following your meaning here. Yes, as you did, I wrote something. That's the complete list of similarities.

S.V. Airlie
03-21-2015, 06:35 PM
President of Arkansas maybe.

Cotton swabs might work for wet behind the ears...I'd just send him some bole weevils!