Aladdin Blue Flame kero heater

[PeterSibley]

I've recently had a short discussion with ACB over on Plans and Designs on the merits of the Aladdin Blue Flame kero heater as a boat heater.He doesn't like them but mentioned that the Pardeys use one aboard "Taleisin".I'm interested as they're available secondhand at reasonable price,something that can't be said for the more "marine" products,such as Taylors stoves.

Does anyone have experience or opinions ?

[PeterSibley]

I've recently had a short discussion with ACB over on Plans and Designs on the merits of the Aladdin Blue Flame kero heater as a boat heater.He doesn't like them but mentioned that the Pardeys use one aboard "Taleisin".I'm interested as they're available secondhand at reasonable price,something that can't be said for the more "marine" products,such as Taylors stoves.

Does anyone have experience or opinions ?

[PeterSibley]

I've recently had a short discussion with ACB over on Plans and Designs on the merits of the Aladdin Blue Flame kero heater as a boat heater.He doesn't like them but mentioned that the Pardeys use one aboard "Taleisin".I'm interested as they're available secondhand at reasonable price,something that can't be said for the more "marine" products,such as Taylors stoves.

Does anyone have experience or opinions ?

[Meerkat]

According to their book, the Pardeys modified their kero cabin heater. I don't recall the specific details.

In general, an unvented heater is bad on a boat: dumps heaps of moisture into the cabin. There's also the problem of cabon monoxide.

[Meerkat]

According to their book, the Pardeys modified their kero cabin heater. I don't recall the specific details.

In general, an unvented heater is bad on a boat: dumps heaps of moisture into the cabin. There's also the problem of cabon monoxide.

[Meerkat]

According to their book, the Pardeys modified their kero cabin heater. I don't recall the specific details.

In general, an unvented heater is bad on a boat: dumps heaps of moisture into the cabin. There's also the problem of cabon monoxide.

[PeterSibley]

Meer, I think they fitted their heater inside a wood stove body and also used the vent/chimney pipe to remove CO.Sounds like a good idea.

ACB said that that type of heater would surge and possibly flare up with the sloshing about of the kero in the tank.I wondered if 3/4 filling the tank with something inert like fiberglass insulation wool would control that?

[PeterSibley]

Meer, I think they fitted their heater inside a wood stove body and also used the vent/chimney pipe to remove CO.Sounds like a good idea.

ACB said that that type of heater would surge and possibly flare up with the sloshing about of the kero in the tank.I wondered if 3/4 filling the tank with something inert like fiberglass insulation wool would control that?

[PeterSibley]

Meer, I think they fitted their heater inside a wood stove body and also used the vent/chimney pipe to remove CO.Sounds like a good idea.

ACB said that that type of heater would surge and possibly flare up with the sloshing about of the kero in the tank.I wondered if 3/4 filling the tank with something inert like fiberglass insulation wool would control that?

[formerlyknownasprince]

Peter - why not a diesel heater - I'd have thought these things would be the bees knees for you blokes down near the Antartic?

Ian

[formerlyknownasprince]

Peter - why not a diesel heater - I'd have thought these things would be the bees knees for you blokes down near the Antartic?

Ian

[formerlyknownasprince]

Peter - why not a diesel heater - I'd have thought these things would be the bees knees for you blokes down near the Antartic?

Ian

[Dave Hadfield]

Just make sure it has a chimney. No matter what the manufacturer claims about its catalytic action, if it has no chimney, you get gassed.

[Dave Hadfield]

Just make sure it has a chimney. No matter what the manufacturer claims about its catalytic action, if it has no chimney, you get gassed.

[Dave Hadfield]

Just make sure it has a chimney. No matter what the manufacturer claims about its catalytic action, if it has no chimney, you get gassed.

[Ian McColgin]

Venting for sure. The surging can be controlled by stuffing the fuel tank as fully as possible with bronze wool.

I used the original toyostove (that Dad found on a flight to Tokyo and that a copilot of his turned into the successful brand KeroSun in the US) for some years on Goblin and liked it quite well, though venting and stabilizing were engineering challenges.

That said, I think a good gravity feed diesel stove like the Dickenson, engineered for marine use and safe as the day is long, is really best. You may have an insurance problem with anything less.

[Ian McColgin]

Venting for sure. The surging can be controlled by stuffing the fuel tank as fully as possible with bronze wool.

I used the original toyostove (that Dad found on a flight to Tokyo and that a copilot of his turned into the successful brand KeroSun in the US) for some years on Goblin and liked it quite well, though venting and stabilizing were engineering challenges.

That said, I think a good gravity feed diesel stove like the Dickenson, engineered for marine use and safe as the day is long, is really best. You may have an insurance problem with anything less.

[Ian McColgin]

Venting for sure. The surging can be controlled by stuffing the fuel tank as fully as possible with bronze wool.

I used the original toyostove (that Dad found on a flight to Tokyo and that a copilot of his turned into the successful brand KeroSun in the US) for some years on Goblin and liked it quite well, though venting and stabilizing were engineering challenges.

That said, I think a good gravity feed diesel stove like the Dickenson, engineered for marine use and safe as the day is long, is really best. You may have an insurance problem with anything less.

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Ian....the Dickerson is probably lovely but would definitely be excessive,we don't get THAT cold ;) Where I want to sail,it rarely gets below freezing on the water,more like 35F to 40F.From what I've heard the Dickerson would be just too effective for us.

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Ian....the Dickerson is probably lovely but would definitely be excessive,we don't get THAT cold ;) Where I want to sail,it rarely gets below freezing on the water,more like 35F to 40F.From what I've heard the Dickerson would be just too effective for us.

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Ian....the Dickerson is probably lovely but would definitely be excessive,we don't get THAT cold ;) Where I want to sail,it rarely gets below freezing on the water,more like 35F to 40F.From what I've heard the Dickerson would be just too effective for us.

[Meerkat]

Yes, the Pardeys mention putting "wool" in both the kero stove and their kero nav lights to prevent surging/going out from sloshing.

If you can tolorate propane, the little Newport cabin heater with it's coaxial intake/exhaust vent would be a perfect choice IMO.

[Meerkat]

Yes, the Pardeys mention putting "wool" in both the kero stove and their kero nav lights to prevent surging/going out from sloshing.

If you can tolorate propane, the little Newport cabin heater with it's coaxial intake/exhaust vent would be a perfect choice IMO.

[Meerkat]

Yes, the Pardeys mention putting "wool" in both the kero stove and their kero nav lights to prevent surging/going out from sloshing.

If you can tolorate propane, the little Newport cabin heater with it's coaxial intake/exhaust vent would be a perfect choice IMO.

[paladin]

you like to live dangerously, eh..Meerkitty....

[paladin]

you like to live dangerously, eh..Meerkitty....

[paladin]

you like to live dangerously, eh..Meerkitty....

[Meerkat]

How so, Chuckles? tongue.gif ;)

[Meerkat]

How so, Chuckles? tongue.gif ;)

[Meerkat]

How so, Chuckles? tongue.gif ;)

[paladin]

propane 'splodes.....

[paladin]

propane 'splodes.....

[paladin]

propane 'splodes.....

[Meerkat]

Boats run up on rocks, get swamped, run over by oil tankers...

Natural gas explodes homes too...

If you're risk-adverse, stay home! ;)

[Meerkat]

Boats run up on rocks, get swamped, run over by oil tankers...

Natural gas explodes homes too...

If you're risk-adverse, stay home! ;)

[Meerkat]

Boats run up on rocks, get swamped, run over by oil tankers...

Natural gas explodes homes too...

If you're risk-adverse, stay home! ;)

[PeterSibley]

I used the original toyostove (that Dad found on a flight to Tokyo and that a copilot of his turned into the successful brand KeroSun in the US) for some years on Goblin and liked it quite well, though venting and stabilizing were engineering challenges

Ian, could you spare a comment or two about how you rigged that heater ? smile.gif

[PeterSibley]

I used the original toyostove (that Dad found on a flight to Tokyo and that a copilot of his turned into the successful brand KeroSun in the US) for some years on Goblin and liked it quite well, though venting and stabilizing were engineering challenges

Ian, could you spare a comment or two about how you rigged that heater ? smile.gif

[PeterSibley]

I used the original toyostove (that Dad found on a flight to Tokyo and that a copilot of his turned into the successful brand KeroSun in the US) for some years on Goblin and liked it quite well, though venting and stabilizing were engineering challenges

Ian, could you spare a comment or two about how you rigged that heater ? smile.gif

[ishmael]

I'd like to hear that too. The stoves for home use that I've seen had the font open, with just the wick between the kero and the open. I can't imagine them working well in a boat that heeled much. Maybe the Toyo were different? And maybe you don't plan to burn it underway?

Here in the states all stoves sold for home use have a pendulum mechanism that shuts them off if they tilt past a certain point. That would have to be jiggered if you planned to use it underway.

Also, kero heaters, again the ones I've seen, are either on or off, with very little adjustment. The smallest I've seen were 10,000 BTU. A Sigmar diesel in Hamilton's catalogue is adjustable from 8,500 to 17,000. Even that sounds big for many boats in less than arctic climes. Dickenson makes a smaller diesel heater that idles down to 6,500. And maybe a smaller one?

And then there are the materials. I can't imagine the materials in home kero stoves holding up well in the marine environment.

All in all, if you want a liquid fuel stove I think I'd bite the bullet, spring for the extra bills, and get a diesel heater, purpose designed. Or...how 'bout a solid fuel stove? They're expensive, but I'll bet you could hire a good fabricator to make one for you cheaper.

Good luck.

[ishmael]

I'd like to hear that too. The stoves for home use that I've seen had the font open, with just the wick between the kero and the open. I can't imagine them working well in a boat that heeled much. Maybe the Toyo were different? And maybe you don't plan to burn it underway?

Here in the states all stoves sold for home use have a pendulum mechanism that shuts them off if they tilt past a certain point. That would have to be jiggered if you planned to use it underway.

Also, kero heaters, again the ones I've seen, are either on or off, with very little adjustment. The smallest I've seen were 10,000 BTU. A Sigmar diesel in Hamilton's catalogue is adjustable from 8,500 to 17,000. Even that sounds big for many boats in less than arctic climes. Dickenson makes a smaller diesel heater that idles down to 6,500. And maybe a smaller one?

And then there are the materials. I can't imagine the materials in home kero stoves holding up well in the marine environment.

All in all, if you want a liquid fuel stove I think I'd bite the bullet, spring for the extra bills, and get a diesel heater, purpose designed. Or...how 'bout a solid fuel stove? They're expensive, but I'll bet you could hire a good fabricator to make one for you cheaper.

Good luck.

[ishmael]

I'd like to hear that too. The stoves for home use that I've seen had the font open, with just the wick between the kero and the open. I can't imagine them working well in a boat that heeled much. Maybe the Toyo were different? And maybe you don't plan to burn it underway?

Here in the states all stoves sold for home use have a pendulum mechanism that shuts them off if they tilt past a certain point. That would have to be jiggered if you planned to use it underway.

Also, kero heaters, again the ones I've seen, are either on or off, with very little adjustment. The smallest I've seen were 10,000 BTU. A Sigmar diesel in Hamilton's catalogue is adjustable from 8,500 to 17,000. Even that sounds big for many boats in less than arctic climes. Dickenson makes a smaller diesel heater that idles down to 6,500. And maybe a smaller one?

And then there are the materials. I can't imagine the materials in home kero stoves holding up well in the marine environment.

All in all, if you want a liquid fuel stove I think I'd bite the bullet, spring for the extra bills, and get a diesel heater, purpose designed. Or...how 'bout a solid fuel stove? They're expensive, but I'll bet you could hire a good fabricator to make one for you cheaper.

Good luck.

[Donn]

I have a 5-6 year old Sengoku, 10KBTU, 1.2 gallon capacity. It's a great little stove, but, as Ish says, it has an auto shut-off pendulum, a very sensitive one. The chimney assembly is also free-standing, just sitting over the wick assembly. As Ish noted, it's either on or off. You can back the wick off a C-H to tune the flame, but that's it. It's also not happy in the wind.

Material is definately not marine quality, at least not the finishes. Mine's seen use in the carport and boathouse, and shows corrosion on all the gridwork chrome. It would be a simple matter to pretty it up with a good stove paint, because it all comes apart. The drip-tray, tank and body have a good finish, and show no signs of rust.

All that said, it's a fine little stove. It quickly heats my 418sf office (on a cement pad), with a 300sf loft. Usually, I run it for 2-3 hours, then shut it off for 4-6. I'm still on the initial wick, and it looks like it'll last another season, and it came with a spare.

These heaters are a good choice for economical space heating, and will work as a directional heater if you mount a reflector, and sit one of those non-electric stove fans on top. I took off the top grill and "hot-plate", and keep a SS bowl of water on the insulator. to aid the humidity.

I can't imagine how much effort it would take to rebuild it for onboard use.

[Donn]

I have a 5-6 year old Sengoku, 10KBTU, 1.2 gallon capacity. It's a great little stove, but, as Ish says, it has an auto shut-off pendulum, a very sensitive one. The chimney assembly is also free-standing, just sitting over the wick assembly. As Ish noted, it's either on or off. You can back the wick off a C-H to tune the flame, but that's it. It's also not happy in the wind.

Material is definately not marine quality, at least not the finishes. Mine's seen use in the carport and boathouse, and shows corrosion on all the gridwork chrome. It would be a simple matter to pretty it up with a good stove paint, because it all comes apart. The drip-tray, tank and body have a good finish, and show no signs of rust.

All that said, it's a fine little stove. It quickly heats my 418sf office (on a cement pad), with a 300sf loft. Usually, I run it for 2-3 hours, then shut it off for 4-6. I'm still on the initial wick, and it looks like it'll last another season, and it came with a spare.

These heaters are a good choice for economical space heating, and will work as a directional heater if you mount a reflector, and sit one of those non-electric stove fans on top. I took off the top grill and "hot-plate", and keep a SS bowl of water on the insulator. to aid the humidity.

I can't imagine how much effort it would take to rebuild it for onboard use.

[Donn]

I have a 5-6 year old Sengoku, 10KBTU, 1.2 gallon capacity. It's a great little stove, but, as Ish says, it has an auto shut-off pendulum, a very sensitive one. The chimney assembly is also free-standing, just sitting over the wick assembly. As Ish noted, it's either on or off. You can back the wick off a C-H to tune the flame, but that's it. It's also not happy in the wind.

Material is definately not marine quality, at least not the finishes. Mine's seen use in the carport and boathouse, and shows corrosion on all the gridwork chrome. It would be a simple matter to pretty it up with a good stove paint, because it all comes apart. The drip-tray, tank and body have a good finish, and show no signs of rust.

All that said, it's a fine little stove. It quickly heats my 418sf office (on a cement pad), with a 300sf loft. Usually, I run it for 2-3 hours, then shut it off for 4-6. I'm still on the initial wick, and it looks like it'll last another season, and it came with a spare.

These heaters are a good choice for economical space heating, and will work as a directional heater if you mount a reflector, and sit one of those non-electric stove fans on top. I took off the top grill and "hot-plate", and keep a SS bowl of water on the insulator. to aid the humidity.

I can't imagine how much effort it would take to rebuild it for onboard use.

[Ian McColgin]

After a series of incline tests I decided that the Toyostove could not be used under weigh.

Also - I don't know if the Kerosun's were equipped with this - the Toyostove had a gizmo we called the "rat trap." A product of safety needs in earthquake prone Japan, a jostle of any sort or excessive tilt would lift the perferated steel cylinder and glass that made a location for complete (blue) burning of the vapors off the circular wick and would slap a steel plate aver the wick thus immediatly eliminating all combustion. You could drp kick the thing without causing a fire.

In the end, all I did was make a ss sheat metal lined box for the stove so's it wouldn't slide about with an upper ring to keep it from toppling, the ring also braced and anchored a hood the led up to a flue.

I've used solid fuel underweigh if either a marine stove or, in the case of a coal fired hen house heater, highly modified. Hate to spread flames below when bashing into a head sea.

Such surges would shut down the Dickenson.

For quick heat, you can't beat solid fuel, especially wood and/or charcoal. It's very hard in the small sizes suitable for yachts to get a solid fuel unit that will burn though the night or longer unless you go coal, (anthricite only!) and very hard to make a small combustion chamber that works for both coal and wood. Coal and charcoal are compatible.

G'luck

[Ian McColgin]

After a series of incline tests I decided that the Toyostove could not be used under weigh.

Also - I don't know if the Kerosun's were equipped with this - the Toyostove had a gizmo we called the "rat trap." A product of safety needs in earthquake prone Japan, a jostle of any sort or excessive tilt would lift the perferated steel cylinder and glass that made a location for complete (blue) burning of the vapors off the circular wick and would slap a steel plate aver the wick thus immediatly eliminating all combustion. You could drp kick the thing without causing a fire.

In the end, all I did was make a ss sheat metal lined box for the stove so's it wouldn't slide about with an upper ring to keep it from toppling, the ring also braced and anchored a hood the led up to a flue.

I've used solid fuel underweigh if either a marine stove or, in the case of a coal fired hen house heater, highly modified. Hate to spread flames below when bashing into a head sea.

Such surges would shut down the Dickenson.

For quick heat, you can't beat solid fuel, especially wood and/or charcoal. It's very hard in the small sizes suitable for yachts to get a solid fuel unit that will burn though the night or longer unless you go coal, (anthricite only!) and very hard to make a small combustion chamber that works for both coal and wood. Coal and charcoal are compatible.

G'luck

[Ian McColgin]

After a series of incline tests I decided that the Toyostove could not be used under weigh.

Also - I don't know if the Kerosun's were equipped with this - the Toyostove had a gizmo we called the "rat trap." A product of safety needs in earthquake prone Japan, a jostle of any sort or excessive tilt would lift the perferated steel cylinder and glass that made a location for complete (blue) burning of the vapors off the circular wick and would slap a steel plate aver the wick thus immediatly eliminating all combustion. You could drp kick the thing without causing a fire.

In the end, all I did was make a ss sheat metal lined box for the stove so's it wouldn't slide about with an upper ring to keep it from toppling, the ring also braced and anchored a hood the led up to a flue.

I've used solid fuel underweigh if either a marine stove or, in the case of a coal fired hen house heater, highly modified. Hate to spread flames below when bashing into a head sea.

Such surges would shut down the Dickenson.

For quick heat, you can't beat solid fuel, especially wood and/or charcoal. It's very hard in the small sizes suitable for yachts to get a solid fuel unit that will burn though the night or longer unless you go coal, (anthricite only!) and very hard to make a small combustion chamber that works for both coal and wood. Coal and charcoal are compatible.

G'luck

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by PeterSibley:
I've recently had a short discussion with ACB over on Plans and Designs on the merits of the Aladdin Blue Flame kero heater as a boat heater.

Does anyone have experience or opinions ?Great little tent heater when you don't want to deal with gasoline and smokestacks, but way too sensitive to spills for a moving vehicle.

I used mine on the back floor of my jeep once in a German mountain winter, as the vehicle heater was kaput and the temps were below zero F.

Picture the lead jeep in large convoy stopping in the middle of a snowy mountain pass at night while the passenger, with his arm on fire, extracted a flaming Aladdin from the rear of a jeep and threw it over the guard rail down the steep scree slope in a spectacular ball of flame that could be seen for 30 miles on both sides of the border.

It was an unwelcome fame....the butt of jokes for a couple years afterwards. ;)

[ 12-05-2005, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by PeterSibley:
I've recently had a short discussion with ACB over on Plans and Designs on the merits of the Aladdin Blue Flame kero heater as a boat heater.

Does anyone have experience or opinions ?Great little tent heater when you don't want to deal with gasoline and smokestacks, but way too sensitive to spills for a moving vehicle.

I used mine on the back floor of my jeep once in a German mountain winter, as the vehicle heater was kaput and the temps were below zero F.

Picture the lead jeep in large convoy stopping in the middle of a snowy mountain pass at night while the passenger, with his arm on fire, extracted a flaming Aladdin from the rear of a jeep and threw it over the guard rail down the steep scree slope in a spectacular ball of flame that could be seen for 30 miles on both sides of the border.

It was an unwelcome fame....the butt of jokes for a couple years afterwards. ;)

[ 12-05-2005, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Bob Smalser]

Originally posted by PeterSibley:
I've recently had a short discussion with ACB over on Plans and Designs on the merits of the Aladdin Blue Flame kero heater as a boat heater.

Does anyone have experience or opinions ?Great little tent heater when you don't want to deal with gasoline and smokestacks, but way too sensitive to spills for a moving vehicle.

I used mine on the back floor of my jeep once in a German mountain winter, as the vehicle heater was kaput and the temps were below zero F.

Picture the lead jeep in large convoy stopping in the middle of a snowy mountain pass at night while the passenger, with his arm on fire, extracted a flaming Aladdin from the rear of a jeep and threw it over the guard rail down the steep scree slope in a spectacular ball of flame that could be seen for 30 miles on both sides of the border.

It was an unwelcome fame....the butt of jokes for a couple years afterwards. ;)

[ 12-05-2005, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Bob! smile.gif :D a point well made.

Thanks everyone for your input,looks like a great bit of gear being asked to do the wrong job.

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Bob! smile.gif :D a point well made.

Thanks everyone for your input,looks like a great bit of gear being asked to do the wrong job.

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Bob! smile.gif :D a point well made.

Thanks everyone for your input,looks like a great bit of gear being asked to do the wrong job.

[Gerald]

I have a backpack stove coming from the States in January. Looks something like the one shown on this site:
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/primus-himalaya-omni.html
The stove I will be buying is 10,000 Btu and like the one listed burns anything from diesel to perfume.
My plan is to use the stove as the heat source for a boiler. That way I will be able to pump the water thru car heater cores in the area of the boat where heat is required.
Gerald

[Gerald]

I have a backpack stove coming from the States in January. Looks something like the one shown on this site:
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/primus-himalaya-omni.html
The stove I will be buying is 10,000 Btu and like the one listed burns anything from diesel to perfume.
My plan is to use the stove as the heat source for a boiler. That way I will be able to pump the water thru car heater cores in the area of the boat where heat is required.
Gerald

[Gerald]

I have a backpack stove coming from the States in January. Looks something like the one shown on this site:
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/primus-himalaya-omni.html
The stove I will be buying is 10,000 Btu and like the one listed burns anything from diesel to perfume.
My plan is to use the stove as the heat source for a boiler. That way I will be able to pump the water thru car heater cores in the area of the boat where heat is required.
Gerald

[skuthorp]

Hi Peter, this place may be able to help
http://melbourne.citysearch.com.au/E/V/MELBO/0054/61/63/
They've been in the business for yonks and I've bought stoves, new and used ffrom them

[skuthorp]

Hi Peter, this place may be able to help
http://melbourne.citysearch.com.au/E/V/MELBO/0054/61/63/
They've been in the business for yonks and I've bought stoves, new and used ffrom them

[skuthorp]

Hi Peter, this place may be able to help
http://melbourne.citysearch.com.au/E/V/MELBO/0054/61/63/
They've been in the business for yonks and I've bought stoves, new and used ffrom them

[Kermit]

Here:
http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/taylors_079d.htm

[Kermit]

Here:
http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/taylors_079d.htm

[Kermit]

Here:
http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/taylors_079d.htm

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Skuthorp,I'll read throught the site...looks like a good source for lamp glasses too smile.gif

Kermit...I have their brochure , beautiful stuff but just beyond my $$.Thanks.

[ 12-07-2005, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: PeterSibley ]

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Skuthorp,I'll read throught the site...looks like a good source for lamp glasses too smile.gif

Kermit...I have their brochure , beautiful stuff but just beyond my $$.Thanks.

[ 12-07-2005, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: PeterSibley ]

[PeterSibley]

Thanks Skuthorp,I'll read throught the site...looks like a good source for lamp glasses too smile.gif

Kermit...I have their brochure , beautiful stuff but just beyond my $$.Thanks.

[ 12-07-2005, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: PeterSibley ]

[ishmael]

The principle behind the Aladdin and other heaters is brilliant. A wick with an afterburner that turns virtually all of the fuel into heat. That's why you can burn a kero heater without venting.

How do the diesel heaters work? I sense they're just a flame. Here's a project, turn the Aladdin principle into a marine heater. You came for advice, and walked away with a million dollar idea, Peter. smile.gif

[ishmael]

The principle behind the Aladdin and other heaters is brilliant. A wick with an afterburner that turns virtually all of the fuel into heat. That's why you can burn a kero heater without venting.

How do the diesel heaters work? I sense they're just a flame. Here's a project, turn the Aladdin principle into a marine heater. You came for advice, and walked away with a million dollar idea, Peter. smile.gif

[ishmael]

The principle behind the Aladdin and other heaters is brilliant. A wick with an afterburner that turns virtually all of the fuel into heat. That's why you can burn a kero heater without venting.

How do the diesel heaters work? I sense they're just a flame. Here's a project, turn the Aladdin principle into a marine heater. You came for advice, and walked away with a million dollar idea, Peter. smile.gif

[Ian McColgin]

Among the no pressure burners, the Aladin's I've seen have a fragile globe 'afterburner' but that's the lamps, not the stoves. The Toyostove/Kerosun types have the big circular wick and the complet compustion happens where the vapors burn on a pierced cylinder.

The Dickenson is not far from the latter, as the final compustion happens above the pot where the oil is puddled and against a steel doughihickie.

The japanese types are easily lit and extinguished. They can run for a few days before the wick needs attention.

The Dickenson model takes a bit to get going properly and you often need a fan to force the exhaust in the first half hour or so. Once going, they can stay happily lit for a month.

Each have their place.

[Ian McColgin]

Among the no pressure burners, the Aladin's I've seen have a fragile globe 'afterburner' but that's the lamps, not the stoves. The Toyostove/Kerosun types have the big circular wick and the complet compustion happens where the vapors burn on a pierced cylinder.

The Dickenson is not far from the latter, as the final compustion happens above the pot where the oil is puddled and against a steel doughihickie.

The japanese types are easily lit and extinguished. They can run for a few days before the wick needs attention.

The Dickenson model takes a bit to get going properly and you often need a fan to force the exhaust in the first half hour or so. Once going, they can stay happily lit for a month.

Each have their place.

[Ian McColgin]

Among the no pressure burners, the Aladin's I've seen have a fragile globe 'afterburner' but that's the lamps, not the stoves. The Toyostove/Kerosun types have the big circular wick and the complet compustion happens where the vapors burn on a pierced cylinder.

The Dickenson is not far from the latter, as the final compustion happens above the pot where the oil is puddled and against a steel doughihickie.

The japanese types are easily lit and extinguished. They can run for a few days before the wick needs attention.

The Dickenson model takes a bit to get going properly and you often need a fan to force the exhaust in the first half hour or so. Once going, they can stay happily lit for a month.

Each have their place.

[ishmael]

Do the current diesel heaters make use of the afterburner effect? I'm imagining a simple flame, but have no experience.

[ishmael]

Do the current diesel heaters make use of the afterburner effect? I'm imagining a simple flame, but have no experience.

[ishmael]

Do the current diesel heaters make use of the afterburner effect? I'm imagining a simple flame, but have no experience.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Loved Bob Smalser's word picture!

I am perfectly happy with the secondhand Shipmate 201 that I've just installed; we had the side decks well awash and went through some rather lumpy stuff last weekend and it was completely unaffected.

Count that a vote for solid fuel at sea.

Oh, and - Ishmael - Paladin, him right!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Loved Bob Smalser's word picture!

I am perfectly happy with the secondhand Shipmate 201 that I've just installed; we had the side decks well awash and went through some rather lumpy stuff last weekend and it was completely unaffected.

Count that a vote for solid fuel at sea.

Oh, and - Ishmael - Paladin, him right!

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Loved Bob Smalser's word picture!

I am perfectly happy with the secondhand Shipmate 201 that I've just installed; we had the side decks well awash and went through some rather lumpy stuff last weekend and it was completely unaffected.

Count that a vote for solid fuel at sea.

Oh, and - Ishmael - Paladin, him right!

[ishmael]

Paladin said propane 'splodes. No argument here. I don't think I'd trust it, even with the best safeguards. But how do the current diesel heaters work? If they are just a burner why couldn't you add the afterburner of an Aladdin and make them much more efficient? Maybe been done, just asking. Maybe not possible, different physics.

[ishmael]

Paladin said propane 'splodes. No argument here. I don't think I'd trust it, even with the best safeguards. But how do the current diesel heaters work? If they are just a burner why couldn't you add the afterburner of an Aladdin and make them much more efficient? Maybe been done, just asking. Maybe not possible, different physics.

[ishmael]

Paladin said propane 'splodes. No argument here. I don't think I'd trust it, even with the best safeguards. But how do the current diesel heaters work? If they are just a burner why couldn't you add the afterburner of an Aladdin and make them much more efficient? Maybe been done, just asking. Maybe not possible, different physics.

[Bob Smalser]

The Army's Yukon gasoline stove is one great honking stove, but with a fixed stack and high heat, you have to get out of your bag to light it.

An Aladdin filled with clean-burning JP-4, OTOH, didn't need a stack and you could set it within reach of your cot on the packed snow covered with damp straw.

Set the alarm for 30 minutes early, zip open your fart sack just enuf to get your arm out and light the stove, set a #10 tin can of water on top....and in a half hour you get up to a warm tent and hot shaving water.

Good duty.

[Bob Smalser]

The Army's Yukon gasoline stove is one great honking stove, but with a fixed stack and high heat, you have to get out of your bag to light it.

An Aladdin filled with clean-burning JP-4, OTOH, didn't need a stack and you could set it within reach of your cot on the packed snow covered with damp straw.

Set the alarm for 30 minutes early, zip open your fart sack just enuf to get your arm out and light the stove, set a #10 tin can of water on top....and in a half hour you get up to a warm tent and hot shaving water.

Good duty.

[Bob Smalser]

The Army's Yukon gasoline stove is one great honking stove, but with a fixed stack and high heat, you have to get out of your bag to light it.

An Aladdin filled with clean-burning JP-4, OTOH, didn't need a stack and you could set it within reach of your cot on the packed snow covered with damp straw.

Set the alarm for 30 minutes early, zip open your fart sack just enuf to get your arm out and light the stove, set a #10 tin can of water on top....and in a half hour you get up to a warm tent and hot shaving water.

Good duty.

[ishmael]

smile.gif

[ishmael]

smile.gif

[ishmael]

smile.gif

[Ad Max]

Peter, tried using a stove on the boat that had self contained burners which were smaller versions of the type of burner on the typical kero room heaters, circular wick maybe 3 inches in diam. This thing became harder to use after a only a few times (admittedly it was old to begin with), going out, burning unevenly, difficult to light. Very sensitive to draughts, plus an occasional "whump" from re-ignited vapours was enough to convince me to remove.

I think the primus/optimus "roarer" burners, in the pressure kero cookers might be worth a try, with a reasonbly thick metal cylinder on top, cylinder filled with some sort of perforated metal sleeves and then connected directly to a suitable flue/chimney. Maybe the cylinder would have vertical fins fitted to aid in convection.

Then set up in the middle of the backyard and give it the rolf harris treatment with a sheet of ply to try and put it out, maybe have someone rocking the thing at the same time. Would want to be reasonably sure before I fitted it to a boat!

Maybe solid fuel is the go, charcoal has a sweet smell when nice and hot.

Be very careful about CO, you just fall asleep!

Cheers

[Ad Max]

Peter, tried using a stove on the boat that had self contained burners which were smaller versions of the type of burner on the typical kero room heaters, circular wick maybe 3 inches in diam. This thing became harder to use after a only a few times (admittedly it was old to begin with), going out, burning unevenly, difficult to light. Very sensitive to draughts, plus an occasional "whump" from re-ignited vapours was enough to convince me to remove.

I think the primus/optimus "roarer" burners, in the pressure kero cookers might be worth a try, with a reasonbly thick metal cylinder on top, cylinder filled with some sort of perforated metal sleeves and then connected directly to a suitable flue/chimney. Maybe the cylinder would have vertical fins fitted to aid in convection.

Then set up in the middle of the backyard and give it the rolf harris treatment with a sheet of ply to try and put it out, maybe have someone rocking the thing at the same time. Would want to be reasonably sure before I fitted it to a boat!

Maybe solid fuel is the go, charcoal has a sweet smell when nice and hot.

Be very careful about CO, you just fall asleep!

Cheers

[Ad Max]

Peter, tried using a stove on the boat that had self contained burners which were smaller versions of the type of burner on the typical kero room heaters, circular wick maybe 3 inches in diam. This thing became harder to use after a only a few times (admittedly it was old to begin with), going out, burning unevenly, difficult to light. Very sensitive to draughts, plus an occasional "whump" from re-ignited vapours was enough to convince me to remove.

I think the primus/optimus "roarer" burners, in the pressure kero cookers might be worth a try, with a reasonbly thick metal cylinder on top, cylinder filled with some sort of perforated metal sleeves and then connected directly to a suitable flue/chimney. Maybe the cylinder would have vertical fins fitted to aid in convection.

Then set up in the middle of the backyard and give it the rolf harris treatment with a sheet of ply to try and put it out, maybe have someone rocking the thing at the same time. Would want to be reasonably sure before I fitted it to a boat!

Maybe solid fuel is the go, charcoal has a sweet smell when nice and hot.

Be very careful about CO, you just fall asleep!

Cheers

[Ian McColgin]

There is a second very important reason for venting in a boat, including all but the smallest cook stoves which are all too often casually vented by being near the companion or under a port.

Water.

Besides CO and CO2, water as vapor is the major by-product of combustion. When you're using a heater is when you have the boat closed up and a boat interior is a very small volume. The moisture will get to the overhead and from there find its way into gaps in the carlines and every upper cabin joint, spreading the gospel of rot.

To each their own, but I'd not leave a primus roaring while I slept. For short-term use like overnight and the occasional fall or winter sail, a proper marine use solid stove is the nuts.

For long term - like winter heating because that's where you live - I moved through every approach and found that coal gave the most cost-effective heat, really marvelous, but the coal dust was unconquerable. Gravity feed diesel is the thing if you need to heat for a whole season.

Really, don't try to save too much money here. Comfort and safety are too prescious.

[Ian McColgin]

There is a second very important reason for venting in a boat, including all but the smallest cook stoves which are all too often casually vented by being near the companion or under a port.

Water.

Besides CO and CO2, water as vapor is the major by-product of combustion. When you're using a heater is when you have the boat closed up and a boat interior is a very small volume. The moisture will get to the overhead and from there find its way into gaps in the carlines and every upper cabin joint, spreading the gospel of rot.

To each their own, but I'd not leave a primus roaring while I slept. For short-term use like overnight and the occasional fall or winter sail, a proper marine use solid stove is the nuts.

For long term - like winter heating because that's where you live - I moved through every approach and found that coal gave the most cost-effective heat, really marvelous, but the coal dust was unconquerable. Gravity feed diesel is the thing if you need to heat for a whole season.

Really, don't try to save too much money here. Comfort and safety are too prescious.

[Ian McColgin]

There is a second very important reason for venting in a boat, including all but the smallest cook stoves which are all too often casually vented by being near the companion or under a port.

Water.

Besides CO and CO2, water as vapor is the major by-product of combustion. When you're using a heater is when you have the boat closed up and a boat interior is a very small volume. The moisture will get to the overhead and from there find its way into gaps in the carlines and every upper cabin joint, spreading the gospel of rot.

To each their own, but I'd not leave a primus roaring while I slept. For short-term use like overnight and the occasional fall or winter sail, a proper marine use solid stove is the nuts.

For long term - like winter heating because that's where you live - I moved through every approach and found that coal gave the most cost-effective heat, really marvelous, but the coal dust was unconquerable. Gravity feed diesel is the thing if you need to heat for a whole season.

Really, don't try to save too much money here. Comfort and safety are too prescious.

[ishmael]

There's something about saying, okay, time for a fire where's the wood or coal? There's also something to be said for turn a switch, where's the heat?

[ishmael]

There's something about saying, okay, time for a fire where's the wood or coal? There's also something to be said for turn a switch, where's the heat?

[ishmael]

There's something about saying, okay, time for a fire where's the wood or coal? There's also something to be said for turn a switch, where's the heat?

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I'm staying with the coal dust.

With a heavy duty rubber glove to handle the coal, and the coal "bunker" in the form of a stainless steel lined locker under the stove, into which the dust round the stove can be swept, it's not too bad.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I'm staying with the coal dust.

With a heavy duty rubber glove to handle the coal, and the coal "bunker" in the form of a stainless steel lined locker under the stove, into which the dust round the stove can be swept, it's not too bad.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

I'm staying with the coal dust.

With a heavy duty rubber glove to handle the coal, and the coal "bunker" in the form of a stainless steel lined locker under the stove, into which the dust round the stove can be swept, it's not too bad.

[guayacan79]

I have been using my Aladdin since 1979 on my schooner even when crossing the pond. It produces enough heat to take the chill off.

It is still working but I would like to acquire a flame spreader or even a 201 burner for it.

[johngsandusky]

Is it a lamp or a heater? I have a lamp on my ketch, I bought a new burner on ebay. There are also parts from Aladdin.

[Bob Smalser]

Is it a lamp or a heater? I have a lamp on my ketch, I bought a new burner on ebay. There are also parts from Aladdin.


It's a heater. And the serious spill hazard when used in a boat hasn't changed since this discussion of 5 years ago.

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/7/2/7/9/2/6/webimg/347787584_tp.jpg

[Ian McColgin]

I'm with Bob on the hazard angle. As I've mentioned on another thread, I heated Goblin with a Toyostove radient Dad had brought back from Japan in '68 or so. Great unit. A little safer in that the fill was a removable tank. A lot of fires from the convection (cylinder) types as people refill while it's lit.

Unlike most US and European units, the Japanese homeland units have a gizmo I call the rat-trap that slides over and smothers the flame in the event of vibration or too much tilt. This is of course to limit fires in an earthquake and in code in Japan. It really is impossible to tip the unit over and start a fire - the trap closes that fast.

I marinized the unit by putting bronze wool in the area around the wick pot to prevent surging and overflow, though like any heater, you don't want to have it on when the boat's bucking some.

The radient units have a seperate fuel tank with the cap and spring loaded hole at the bottom so kero flows only when the fuel level in the burner cup goes below the hole and air can enter the tank to let out a little kero. In the rocking, air can get in if slosh is allowed and overfill the burner cup, dribbling onto the base pan and easily (rocking boat) sloshing over the low sides.

I also made hold-downs so it wouldn't wander around the saloon.

No matter how many ways you slice it, it's really hard to marinize a wick-type heater - slosh and all.

The other thing about these units is that they are meant to not require venting. This is fine in a house, fairly large qubic feet space, but really not so healthy in a boat. Remember a normal cabin has only five or six hundred cubic feet per cabin, max.

I've marinized a coal brooder-heater and many solid fuel units designed for shore use can be marinized - mostly just a matter of making secure doors and lids. But I would not trust non-marine liquid or gas units at all. And I'd not install anything without positive exhaust.

[PeterSibley]

The slosh can be solved, I think ,by filling the reservoir with rag as you would do with a kero anchor lamp. The working parts of these heaters are very well made from brass and so are unlikely to suffer from corrosion problems ....I bought one recently and had a very good look .

It goes without saying that venting is essential !

Here is the body of an email from Lin Pardy ,(I hope she doesn't mind me posting it ! ) but as they used this setup for quite a few years her comments may well be of interest .

"Hi

I am just now doing the final bits for a new edition of Capable Cruiser. In doing this we analysed our heating stove and decided not to say it was a success. It worked okay, looked beautiful. But after being on board boats with some of the more modern diesel and kero stoves feel they would actually work out to be less expensive and more effective.

We could only get about 6250 btu out of the stove. The Espar which fits the same space gives out 11,000.

Sorry to disappoint. We still use the original stove which has a 3 inch stove pipe.

Best,
L and L"
from me ...."Thanks for that Lynn or Larry ,
a pity as I have a Valor heater and it wouldn't take much to fit !

Did you mean you are still using the Valor /wood stove combination ?"
Lin's reply
"Yes we are, but we aren't cruising to Teirra del Fuego again in the near future. After our voyage there we decided we needed a more powerful heater for sailing in the deep south.

Lin" .

Again, I hope Lin Pardey doesn't mind ....my apologies if she does .

From her message i would say this heater would be quite adequate for most ofthe cruising I would envisage ,being a long way North of glaciers ..

[Patric]

The interesting bit would be to find out how that Aladdin heater on Chichester's Gipsy Moth worked. He did mention though that he suffered from mild CO poisoning at one point and blamed the vent. From then on he wouldn't make use of the heater in strong winds IIRC. Then again he had a lot of nasty things to say about the Gipsy Moth IV design!

[Breakaway]

I have been using one of these for a long time, over 20 years to heat my floating duckblind ( 8 x 12 "house" with canvas roof atop a 10 x 16 "decked barge"). Totally reliable and now with Craigslist and Ebay, parts are easy to come by. We even cook on the top of them, placing a small frying pan to cook eggs and stuff. Never fet CO posioned, but then the blind is hardly air-tight, though it is pretty weather tight. Still, I'd defer to the vent and spill experience mentioned above for boat use.

You have to make sure to adjust the wick so that you get a trully blue flame. If not, its stinky. Mke sure you get a hold of extra wicks and the wick cleaner tool. This last is essential for "burning blue."

Kevin

[guayacan79]

I have one. When looking for parts I found some for sale in England.