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Paul Pless
02-21-2015, 10:06 AM
http://40.media.tumblr.com/b3479bedfba599901570cda836f73aec/tumblr_mrs72xp4Ve1qm86t3o1_1280.jpg

Gerarddm
02-21-2015, 10:17 AM
I find the whole thing remarkable.

Harvey Golden
02-21-2015, 02:03 PM
If I may join in....
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8602/16417766979_191994ea9f_c.jpg

Paul Pless
02-21-2015, 02:04 PM
absolutely! i wish more people would join in the celebration of woodenboats

Harvey Golden
02-21-2015, 02:06 PM
A most wondrous craft!
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8569/16416594290_0c52c0b4d4_c.jpg

Stiletto
02-21-2015, 06:31 PM
I remember seeing, in the Auckland museum I think, a traditional outrigger canoe of the type that was around when Captain Cook came through the Pacific. It was capable of around 17 knots and was the fastest water transport ever seen at the time.

Hwyl
02-21-2015, 07:08 PM
http://www.charterworld.com/images/framework/175/ASEAN%20LADY%20-%20Photo%20Credit%20Asia%20Pacific%20Boating%20Mag azine%20November%202007-680.jpg

Paul Pless
02-21-2015, 07:09 PM
uhhh. . .

Harvey Golden
02-21-2015, 07:22 PM
About 60' long?
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8665/15983841313_27eb074b23_c.jpg

AnalogKid
02-22-2015, 03:35 AM
We need Johnno to come along and show us his Kiribati pictures.

All I've got is museum pics.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_r9cYwiSsDDA/TKOVe_kZCcI/AAAAAAAAAOA/r46hx_Xhxcs/s512/P1010497.JPG

Harvey Golden
02-22-2015, 12:18 PM
Caroline Islands
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8632/16416569558_f5291c68bd_c.jpg

Harvey Golden
02-22-2015, 10:59 PM
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8614/16412516837_397d4328b8_c.jpg

Harvey Golden
02-26-2015, 08:07 PM
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8611/16619156062_6d3366e1b4_c.jpg

Harvey Golden
02-27-2015, 10:15 PM
Not sure... how much... longer.... I ... can... keep... this... thread... afloat.... alone...:eek:
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8575/16046372193_5b1450293c_c.jpg

HalcyonS
01-05-2016, 02:09 PM
Not sure... how much... longer.... I ... can... keep... this... thread... afloat.... alone...:eek:


aww, are you still there? I just joined.
Wha? I just tried to upload 15 pics and got a red exclamation mark against all.
so I went to the FAQ. This process seems a bit dated.

"Keep them 500 pixels wide OR LESS"
I get the size limit. fine.
"dial-up folks aren't bogged-down"
I don't mean to sound snobbish, but does anyone dial up anymore?
"FIRST - Don't attach photos."
Huh?
I'm grateful that this forum is here and I know its a labor of love, but - how long is it since this process was reconsidered?

Peerie Maa
01-05-2016, 02:14 PM
aww, are you still there? I just joined.
Wha? is there a size limit on attachments?
I just tied to upload 15 pics and got a red exclamation mark against all!
I could use only one - the smallest, 12 kb.

Welcome to the forum.
Now read the FAQ's :D
This is how to post pictures

POSTING PICTURES
Control yourself. Avoid posting BIG pictures. Keep them 500 pixels wide OR LESS. That way the dial-up folks aren't bogged-down, and the width doesn't make the page hard to read in a standard sized window. If you don't have Photoshop, try the freebie from gimp.org. We do NOT host your images. You need to have a place like Flickr, Imagestation, Photobucket, or one of the free other hosting outfits... or your own site. Per Thorne's 'How-to', here's how to post photos on this forum:



...FIRST - Don't attach photos. Only a tiny version will display.
...SECOND - Post the photos on the web. Use your own website or a free image hosting service like www.flickr.com, picasaweb.google.com, picturetrail, photobucket, etc. Images posted on Facebook must be set to "Public" access via the Edit option, not limited to "Friends".

...THIRD - Once posted on the web, right-click the photo to "Copy Image Location", or drag the photo to another browser window, then copy the image URL (web address) which will end in ".jpg". You can test by pasting the photo URL into the location field (http://* ) of a web browser and see if the photo displays. Remember that this process will not work for photos located just on your computer, on members-only Yahoo groups, or on Facebook unless set to "Public" view. (In Flickr - You usually have to first click the photo to bring up the black-framed viewer, then click the "View All Sizes" link near the top right. Then you can get the image URL by right-clicking the image. Alternately you can go to the Actions menu on the upper left, then select "View All Sizes".

...FOURTH - DO THIS EVERY TIME TO POST IMAGES IN THREADS: A. In any "Reply" window you can click the "insert image" icon --> a little yellow square icon with a dot at each corner, a tiny tree in the center. Depending on browser version and Reply/Edit status, this may bring up a simple window with a field to paste the URL into, or the "Add an Image" window described below.
B. If the window titled "Add an Image" comes up, click the "From URL" tab, paste the URL of the photo in the field, deselect the box for "Retrieve remote file and reference locally", then click the "INSERT IMAGE" button. The Forum software will resize some large images, so look at your post to see the actual displayed images.

HalcyonS
01-05-2016, 03:32 PM
Welcome to the forum.
Now read the FAQ's :D


I _did_ read the FAQ, (as noted).
My remarks were based in reading the FAQ !
I was simply making an observation about the way the process works _here_ as opposed to other fora I use.
No offense meant.

Peerie Maa
01-05-2016, 03:39 PM
I _did_ read the FAQ, (as noted).
My remarks were based in reading the FAQ !
I was simply making an observation about the way the process works _here_ as opposed to other fora I use.
No offense meant.

None taken. I was basing my advice on the thumbnail that you pasted, rather than the full size image that is possible with the FAQ instruction.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2803&d=1452020829

SMARTINSEN
01-05-2016, 03:57 PM
There is a whole 'nother thread on this upstairs, you know.

(DavidG being on hiatus, i will assume the role, and take the opportunity to chasten Pless about posting boaty stuff in the stinky old Bilge. (Welcome to the WBF, HalcyonS, you are very brave descending down here for your very first posts.))

I will add to Peerie's information that there is a limit of 6 attachments per post, (including smileys :p)

Hugh Conway
01-05-2016, 04:22 PM
with the cold weather and snow, this is evil temptation
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8WwPIZ9l3so/VkOTLGy2qcI/AAAAAAAACOo/Qc7julP8hCE/s800/vm-tahiti-5.jpg

The Bigfella
01-05-2016, 05:19 PM
If I'm not mistaken, this is where I learnt to sail. Coffs Harbour. That inner breakwall wasn't there, back then.... nor was the proa fleet

http://www.nauticaltrek.com/images/1/346.jpg

The Bigfella
01-05-2016, 05:20 PM
Well, there you go.... it is Coffs Harbour

http://harryproa.com/wp-content/uploads/photo-gallery/Elementarry_08.JPG

HalcyonS
01-05-2016, 06:30 PM
There is a whole 'nother thread on this upstairs, you know.
(Welcome to the WBF, HalcyonS, you are very brave descending down here for your very first posts.))


Dude,
I'm no stranger to the stinky old bilge.
"There is a whole 'nother thread on this upstairs"
odd, I searched 'proa' in the search engine and got zilch. point me?

HalcyonS
01-05-2016, 06:34 PM
Well, there you go.... it is Coffs Harbour


Wow, they have a fleet !?!
Damn Australians, always ahead of the game!
(Full disclosure - I'm an expat :)
The cat schooner rig is more or less exactly what I have planned for my boat.
Can you - or anyone - give me connections to club members/designer?
I'd be very grateful.

Ahhh, they're Elementarrys. That Rob Denney is a clever lad!
http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=expeditionarry-2
http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=elementarry-75m25

SMARTINSEN
01-05-2016, 06:55 PM
Dude,
I'm no stranger to the stinky old bilge.
"There is a whole 'nother thread on this upstairs"
odd, I searched 'proa' in the search engine and got zilch. point me?

Right on top in Designs & Plans.

Over 66 pages worth, half a million views.

Search engine on the Forum is, as you have found, utterly worthless. You are better searching on google within this domain.

Lugalong
01-08-2016, 03:37 AM
Wow, they have a fleet !?!
Damn Australians, always ahead of the game!
(Full disclosure - I'm an expat :)
The cat schooner rig is more or less exactly what I have planned for my boat.
Can you - or anyone - give me connections to club members/designer?
I'd be very grateful.

Ahhh, they're Elementarrys. That Rob Denney is a clever lad!
http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=expeditionarry-2
http://harryproa.com/?portfolio=elementarry-75m25

Hi Halcyon, are you promoting harryproas here, or are you seriously keen on building a wooden proa?

Harryproas are supposed to be lighter, faster, easier to build and lower priced than any other multihull. Some have been built using Paulownia strip as a core material, but other than that, I cannot see their relevance to wooden double sailing canoe design....... oh sure! this is 'the bilge', so product promotion may pass as permissible in the same way that right or leftwing political parties are punted. However I'm thinking and hoping that participating forum members are straight-up about their affiliation to parties or products promoted.
-Jeremy

Chris249
01-08-2016, 03:55 AM
One of the things that interest me is the way they were received by many early Western yachtsmen. Conventional wisdom would probably have us believe that the proas would have been derided as the product of "savages" (which is actually the term Nat Herreshoff used about the multihull builders of Polynesia) but all the accounts I can find are very respectful in every way. It's the same as the early canoe sailors and their attitude towards "native" canoes and kayaks.

It would be interesting to see how quick they normally are. Back in the '60s and '70s the canoes of Port Moresby (New Guinea) used to race the Fireballs and Hobie 16s and I think even the 'Balls and Hobies normally won. A PNG native apparently swapped his canoe for an old Hobie and he still sails Hobies in Sydney; I must ask him about it one day.

Lugalong
01-09-2016, 03:44 PM
One of the things that interest me is the way they were received by many early Western yachtsmen. Conventional wisdom would probably have us believe that the proas would have been derided as the product of "savages" (which is actually the term Nat Herreshoff used about the multihull builders of Polynesia) but all the accounts I can find are very respectful in every way. It's the same as the early canoe sailors and their attitude towards "native" canoes and kayaks.

It would be interesting to see how quick they normally are. Back in the '60s and '70s the canoes of Port Moresby (New Guinea) used to race the Fireballs and Hobie 16s and I think even the 'Balls and Hobies normally won. A PNG native apparently swapped his canoe for an old Hobie and he still sails Hobies in Sydney; I must ask him about it one day.

It would be as interesting to me hearing whether this PNG native has moved on to sailing foiling beach cats by now, but on second thoughts realise he is probably getting on in years too much for that.

I can well understand how a native PNG sailor of the traditional outrager type craft would be tempted to go for the performance and user friendly qualities of a Hobie, while living in Sydney........perhaps he moved to Aus in order to do more of that sort of sailing.

As well, I can understand why a lighter multi carrying a more modern higher aspect rig will show better all round performance, even if not a foiler, compared to a primitive proa. These factors also help in explaining why modern materials technology has taken away the performance edge shown by the old time proa.

Respect for the Pacific proa and even the early catamaran equivalent multi (the Tongan Tongiaki) was undoubtedly forthcoming because they were without doubt quicker than anything created by people regarding themselves as leaders in marine technology. This kind of respect still lingers where wood as a construction material is concerned............ as in the case of Newicks Atlantic proa Cheers, and the pros built by Russel Brown. But opening the spec options to advanced composites, takes away any apparent performance edge to a shunting craft.

Mention of Herreshoff is interesting here, in that his design ideas well represent the divergence of sailing craft for either pleasure or else workboats.......much in the same way that fluid dynamics has produced foilers as a divergence from displacement craft which need to be load carriers for cruising.
-Jeremy

HalcyonS
01-09-2016, 10:26 PM
Hi Halcyon, are you promoting harryproas here,

What are you implying?
I Acknowledge and celebrate innovative design work.
I have no stake in the success or failure of harryproas as a business, though I wish them no ill.

HalcyonS
01-09-2016, 10:29 PM
But opening the spec options to advanced composites, takes away any apparent performance edge to a shunting craft.
-Jeremy
Jeremy - not clear on your argument here.
Why do you argue that 'advanced composites' would advantage a non-shunting design more than a shunting design?
thanks!

Lugalong
01-10-2016, 03:44 AM
What are you implying?
I Acknowledge and celebrate innovative design work.
I have no stake in the success or failure of harryproas as a business, though I wish them no ill.

I am simply asking whether you are trying to steer interest and conversation toward the marque.......it is an old internet ploy used by them, which apparently helps to sell Harryproa plans.

Neither do I wish them any ill. Frankly, I could care as much for a Harryproa as I do for any other multi (catamaran, trimaran or proa) which is aimed at appealing to those impressed by flashiness and bling.

Lugalong
01-10-2016, 03:54 AM
Jeremy - not clear on your argument here.
Why do you argue that 'advanced composites' would advantage a non-shunting design more than a shunting design?
thanks!

Mainly because a non-shunting design will be able to get up on foils and carry a more powerful rig than a shunter.
Weight, wetted area and consequent drag can be reduced by engineering with use of advanced composites rather than wood composites.

Wood composites might have previously offered a Pacific proa configuration an advantage over a bi symmetric tacker, I think, but technological advances have changed this.

- note -- I am adding this to explain what I mean by the description "bi-symmetric tacker" -- Essentially, a proa is a craft easily recognised by having two unequal sized hulls, as is well illustrated by the power proa pictured earlier in this thread. So this bi-asymmetric aspect is the defining feature, but does not mean that a proa cannot be a tacker. Tacking pros just perform differently on each tack.
-Jeremy

HalcyonS
01-10-2016, 02:26 PM
it is an old internet ploy used by them,


ahhh. I am innocent!

HalcyonS
01-10-2016, 02:44 PM
it is an old internet ploy used by them,


ahhh. I am innocent!

HalcyonS
01-10-2016, 02:56 PM
Mainly because a non-shunting design will be able to get up on foils and carry a more powerful rig than a shunter.

Tacking pros just perform differently on each tack.
-Jeremy

No doubt for bleeding edge blue knuckle competition sailing, foils are it. Currently they require too much vigilance for anyone but the always-on racer (IMHO). Do you think foil development (without hightech realtime electronic controls) will ever provide a foiler you can sail with a gin and tonic in the other hand?

That is to say - I am interested in pursuing a style of Proa that is lightweight, inexpensive, easy-build, low tech, potentially trailerable, fast and fun cruiser/racer.

Much as I'm for hybrids of all sorts, I think tacking proas are just wrong :)
I am interested in shunting. Shunting is an idea which has not had the benefit of 100 years of design/tech refinement.
I think it might be a viable alternative to tacking, for some kinds of sailing at least.

Paul Pless
01-10-2016, 02:59 PM
From the makers of WEST System.

http://epoxyworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Slingshot.jpg

Paul Pless
01-10-2016, 06:20 PM
http://36.media.tumblr.com/de2324815abf9ff80bb8fb966f8e7e4a/tumblr_nznnmgyLpI1u43a0go1_1280.jpg

Lugalong
01-11-2016, 03:36 AM
No doubt for bleeding edge blue knuckle competition sailing, foils are it. Currently they require too much vigilance for anyone but the always-on racer (IMHO). Do you think foil development (without hightech realtime electronic controls) will ever provide a foiler you can sail with a gin and tonic in the other hand?

That is to say - I am interested in pursuing a style of Proa that is lightweight, inexpensive, easy-build, low tech, potentially trailerable, fast and fun cruiser/racer.

Much as I'm for hybrids of all sorts, I think tacking proas are just wrong :)
I am interested in shunting. Shunting is an idea which has not had the benefit of 100 years of design/tech refinement.
I think it might be a viable alternative to tacking, for some kinds of sailing at least.

Foilers, or any craft leaning toward aeronautical thinking is not in my sights.........what you mention -- lightweight, inexpensive, easy to build, low tech and potentially trailerable is exactly what I am busy with, although a cruiser rather than a cruiser/racer is a better description. A couple of smaller proas that I still have will have to go toward funding the completion of the 30 ft'er.

Performance depends on sail power, so I would go with a combination of fully battened main and various headsails to step it up. But the plan is to rather carry a very simple rig that I can easily strike in order to get under a bridge leaving the mooring in my back yard.

Agreement on the tacker option..........shunting suits me just fine. I don't mind walking to the bow end and dragging the rig's tack back to the other end; once midship point is reached, the craft is as good as hove to anyway, so there need be no flap.

Lugalong
01-11-2016, 03:56 AM
http://36.media.tumblr.com/de2324815abf9ff80bb8fb966f8e7e4a/tumblr_nznnmgyLpI1u43a0go1_1280.jpg

This Sri Lanka Oruwa has appealed to me enough to have have started building a smaller replica based on a hull that I used to play with off a beach.

As I understood things, the Colombo fishermen were finding it hard to get logs to build their dugouts, so a mould was pulled from an existing Oruwa and composite hulls laid up. These were finished using wooden wash strake extensions, spars, beams and ama. Completed craft looked just like the one pictured here.
I never did finish my replica effort, because the method inspired a similar build method for a design based on the Tuamotus Pahi......which needs to be completed.