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Dave
08-31-2000, 07:39 PM
I am planning on building my first wooden boat(not to count a sea kayak I built many years ago). Condon offers many types of Mahogany marine plywood including one called Bruynzeel Regina and another called Occume. The Bruynzeel is more than tiwce more expensive than Occume. I am building a 20 foot runabout with a 100 Hp motor. Do I need the Bruynzeel or would Occume be good enough for this boat? What is the difference between the two?

Also, I am considering building either the Mangoose 20 from Clark Craft Collection or the 18 foot DownEaster from WoodenBoat cataloge. The downeaster has calssic lines and looks older, the Mongoose has modern lines. Can't make up my mind. Any suggestions??

Thanks,

Dave

Dave
08-31-2000, 07:39 PM
I am planning on building my first wooden boat(not to count a sea kayak I built many years ago). Condon offers many types of Mahogany marine plywood including one called Bruynzeel Regina and another called Occume. The Bruynzeel is more than tiwce more expensive than Occume. I am building a 20 foot runabout with a 100 Hp motor. Do I need the Bruynzeel or would Occume be good enough for this boat? What is the difference between the two?

Also, I am considering building either the Mangoose 20 from Clark Craft Collection or the 18 foot DownEaster from WoodenBoat cataloge. The downeaster has calssic lines and looks older, the Mongoose has modern lines. Can't make up my mind. Any suggestions??

Thanks,

Dave

Dave
08-31-2000, 07:39 PM
I am planning on building my first wooden boat(not to count a sea kayak I built many years ago). Condon offers many types of Mahogany marine plywood including one called Bruynzeel Regina and another called Occume. The Bruynzeel is more than tiwce more expensive than Occume. I am building a 20 foot runabout with a 100 Hp motor. Do I need the Bruynzeel or would Occume be good enough for this boat? What is the difference between the two?

Also, I am considering building either the Mangoose 20 from Clark Craft Collection or the 18 foot DownEaster from WoodenBoat cataloge. The downeaster has calssic lines and looks older, the Mongoose has modern lines. Can't make up my mind. Any suggestions??

Thanks,

Dave

landlocked sailor
09-01-2000, 09:59 PM
I guess nobody has any idea. Rick

landlocked sailor
09-01-2000, 09:59 PM
I guess nobody has any idea. Rick

landlocked sailor
09-01-2000, 09:59 PM
I guess nobody has any idea. Rick

ishmael
09-01-2000, 11:00 PM
I don't know nuthin' about the specific differences. Doutless, there are some between the base materials. There may well also be differences in quality that account for the prices. The Bruynzeel is primo stuff. Different standards likely with regard to quality control.

If I was you, I'd use the occume. First boat, learning curve etc. And... after all, you're not building a tender for Britannia (or whatever the royal yachet is/was called.) Buy an extra sheet or two, and that will give you some wiggle room if you find a void in a critical piece. My take. Have fun!

ishmael
09-01-2000, 11:00 PM
I don't know nuthin' about the specific differences. Doutless, there are some between the base materials. There may well also be differences in quality that account for the prices. The Bruynzeel is primo stuff. Different standards likely with regard to quality control.

If I was you, I'd use the occume. First boat, learning curve etc. And... after all, you're not building a tender for Britannia (or whatever the royal yachet is/was called.) Buy an extra sheet or two, and that will give you some wiggle room if you find a void in a critical piece. My take. Have fun!

ishmael
09-01-2000, 11:00 PM
I don't know nuthin' about the specific differences. Doutless, there are some between the base materials. There may well also be differences in quality that account for the prices. The Bruynzeel is primo stuff. Different standards likely with regard to quality control.

If I was you, I'd use the occume. First boat, learning curve etc. And... after all, you're not building a tender for Britannia (or whatever the royal yachet is/was called.) Buy an extra sheet or two, and that will give you some wiggle room if you find a void in a critical piece. My take. Have fun!

J. Dillon
09-01-2000, 11:26 PM
Dave, Ishmael is probably right if you feel your skills are not up there yet, but Bruynzeel is beautiful stuff and worth the price. The last time I used it was 30 years ago and I didn't throw away a piece of scrap more then a sq. inch. I found all sorts of uses for it. I did regret not using the best on subsequent boats I built settling on the cheaper stuff, for me it was false economy.

J. Dillon
09-01-2000, 11:26 PM
Dave, Ishmael is probably right if you feel your skills are not up there yet, but Bruynzeel is beautiful stuff and worth the price. The last time I used it was 30 years ago and I didn't throw away a piece of scrap more then a sq. inch. I found all sorts of uses for it. I did regret not using the best on subsequent boats I built settling on the cheaper stuff, for me it was false economy.

J. Dillon
09-01-2000, 11:26 PM
Dave, Ishmael is probably right if you feel your skills are not up there yet, but Bruynzeel is beautiful stuff and worth the price. The last time I used it was 30 years ago and I didn't throw away a piece of scrap more then a sq. inch. I found all sorts of uses for it. I did regret not using the best on subsequent boats I built settling on the cheaper stuff, for me it was false economy.

htom
09-01-2000, 11:50 PM
Bruynzeel is a manufacturer of very high quality marine plywood. Occume (gaboon) is the name of a light-weight mahogany like wood.

Looking at the page below, it appears that Bruynzeel Regina is one of their premium grades (20 year guarantee), while their Occume is one of the economy versions (10 year guarantee.)

If the occume you're comparing is not Bruynzeel, I would expect it to be at least a level lower in quality than Bruynzeel's, and hope it would be lower in cost.

Occume might be a little lighter, but with 100 hp this seems unlikely to be a major factor. The color of the woods, if finished bright, will probably differ, if this is important. It would seem that the Regina is expected to have a longer lifetime.

What's the projected lifetime of the boat? What kind of use will it get, what conditions, what abuse, maintainance, ... may indicate that one or the other is more superior in that application.

http://www.silverman.co.uk/products/mp05.htm
http://www.bruynzeel.co.uk/

htom
09-01-2000, 11:50 PM
Bruynzeel is a manufacturer of very high quality marine plywood. Occume (gaboon) is the name of a light-weight mahogany like wood.

Looking at the page below, it appears that Bruynzeel Regina is one of their premium grades (20 year guarantee), while their Occume is one of the economy versions (10 year guarantee.)

If the occume you're comparing is not Bruynzeel, I would expect it to be at least a level lower in quality than Bruynzeel's, and hope it would be lower in cost.

Occume might be a little lighter, but with 100 hp this seems unlikely to be a major factor. The color of the woods, if finished bright, will probably differ, if this is important. It would seem that the Regina is expected to have a longer lifetime.

What's the projected lifetime of the boat? What kind of use will it get, what conditions, what abuse, maintainance, ... may indicate that one or the other is more superior in that application.

http://www.silverman.co.uk/products/mp05.htm
http://www.bruynzeel.co.uk/

htom
09-01-2000, 11:50 PM
Bruynzeel is a manufacturer of very high quality marine plywood. Occume (gaboon) is the name of a light-weight mahogany like wood.

Looking at the page below, it appears that Bruynzeel Regina is one of their premium grades (20 year guarantee), while their Occume is one of the economy versions (10 year guarantee.)

If the occume you're comparing is not Bruynzeel, I would expect it to be at least a level lower in quality than Bruynzeel's, and hope it would be lower in cost.

Occume might be a little lighter, but with 100 hp this seems unlikely to be a major factor. The color of the woods, if finished bright, will probably differ, if this is important. It would seem that the Regina is expected to have a longer lifetime.

What's the projected lifetime of the boat? What kind of use will it get, what conditions, what abuse, maintainance, ... may indicate that one or the other is more superior in that application.

http://www.silverman.co.uk/products/mp05.htm
http://www.bruynzeel.co.uk/

Ed Harrow
09-05-2000, 10:16 PM
Something is "classic" because it looks good forever. Something "modern" looks dated a few years hence. Look to Detroit for lots of examples...

Ed Harrow
09-05-2000, 10:16 PM
Something is "classic" because it looks good forever. Something "modern" looks dated a few years hence. Look to Detroit for lots of examples...

Ed Harrow
09-05-2000, 10:16 PM
Something is "classic" because it looks good forever. Something "modern" looks dated a few years hence. Look to Detroit for lots of examples...

TomRobb
09-06-2000, 09:55 AM
Repeating a line used here before (the original reference was to "What is the best wine?"), the best is the one you like. Do you want to fall in love, or would you prefer an arranged marriage? It will be the same with boats. Every one claims to be rational, but our choices are driven by emotion, conscious or not.

TomRobb
09-06-2000, 09:55 AM
Repeating a line used here before (the original reference was to "What is the best wine?"), the best is the one you like. Do you want to fall in love, or would you prefer an arranged marriage? It will be the same with boats. Every one claims to be rational, but our choices are driven by emotion, conscious or not.

TomRobb
09-06-2000, 09:55 AM
Repeating a line used here before (the original reference was to "What is the best wine?"), the best is the one you like. Do you want to fall in love, or would you prefer an arranged marriage? It will be the same with boats. Every one claims to be rational, but our choices are driven by emotion, conscious or not.

Ed Harrow
09-07-2000, 12:50 PM
LOL, falling in love vs arranged marriage.

This occurred to me one day in a christmas-tree lot. Looking for the perfect christmas tree is like looking for the perfect spouse; you look, and you look, and you look, and after a while you get tired of looking and you just pick one...

'spose it's the same for boats?

Ed Harrow
09-07-2000, 12:50 PM
LOL, falling in love vs arranged marriage.

This occurred to me one day in a christmas-tree lot. Looking for the perfect christmas tree is like looking for the perfect spouse; you look, and you look, and you look, and after a while you get tired of looking and you just pick one...

'spose it's the same for boats?

Ed Harrow
09-07-2000, 12:50 PM
LOL, falling in love vs arranged marriage.

This occurred to me one day in a christmas-tree lot. Looking for the perfect christmas tree is like looking for the perfect spouse; you look, and you look, and you look, and after a while you get tired of looking and you just pick one...

'spose it's the same for boats?

David Tunick
09-15-2000, 10:56 PM
Dave, I had to make the same decision last spring for a subdeck & ended up with the Bruynzeel Regina, bought from Condon. (Another supplier is Merritt Marine in Pomapano Beach, FL). Regina in two grades: Super Regina & Standard. I called Bruynzeel in Holland to discuss the different varieties, & found a conversation I had with a man named Pierre to be very helpful. Their number, dialling from the U.S., is 011-31-75-655-4200.

Good luck!

David Tunick
09-15-2000, 10:56 PM
Dave, I had to make the same decision last spring for a subdeck & ended up with the Bruynzeel Regina, bought from Condon. (Another supplier is Merritt Marine in Pomapano Beach, FL). Regina in two grades: Super Regina & Standard. I called Bruynzeel in Holland to discuss the different varieties, & found a conversation I had with a man named Pierre to be very helpful. Their number, dialling from the U.S., is 011-31-75-655-4200.

Good luck!

David Tunick
09-15-2000, 10:56 PM
Dave, I had to make the same decision last spring for a subdeck & ended up with the Bruynzeel Regina, bought from Condon. (Another supplier is Merritt Marine in Pomapano Beach, FL). Regina in two grades: Super Regina & Standard. I called Bruynzeel in Holland to discuss the different varieties, & found a conversation I had with a man named Pierre to be very helpful. Their number, dialling from the U.S., is 011-31-75-655-4200.

Good luck!

Denny Wolfe
10-09-2000, 09:55 PM
On the subject of designs: Have you checked out the Pretty Marsh 21 in WB a year or so ago. More similar to the Downeaster with its traditional sheerline but IMHO better looking with tumble home at the stern. Doug Hylan's construction method looks like it might be easier than the frames & stringers of either of the two boats you mentioned.

I'd be curious to hear other opinions of the Pretty Marsh construction method.

Denny Wolfe
10-09-2000, 09:55 PM
On the subject of designs: Have you checked out the Pretty Marsh 21 in WB a year or so ago. More similar to the Downeaster with its traditional sheerline but IMHO better looking with tumble home at the stern. Doug Hylan's construction method looks like it might be easier than the frames & stringers of either of the two boats you mentioned.

I'd be curious to hear other opinions of the Pretty Marsh construction method.

Denny Wolfe
10-09-2000, 09:55 PM
On the subject of designs: Have you checked out the Pretty Marsh 21 in WB a year or so ago. More similar to the Downeaster with its traditional sheerline but IMHO better looking with tumble home at the stern. Doug Hylan's construction method looks like it might be easier than the frames & stringers of either of the two boats you mentioned.

I'd be curious to hear other opinions of the Pretty Marsh construction method.

Randy Sweet
10-02-2002, 09:05 AM
I built the Downeaster 18 with okoume for the hull and Sapele ribbon for the deck. Should you choose this boat to build, I hope you will be as happy with her as I am with mine. It is a terrific design and continues to exceed my expectations.

Randy Sweet
10-02-2002, 09:05 AM
I built the Downeaster 18 with okoume for the hull and Sapele ribbon for the deck. Should you choose this boat to build, I hope you will be as happy with her as I am with mine. It is a terrific design and continues to exceed my expectations.

Randy Sweet
10-02-2002, 09:05 AM
I built the Downeaster 18 with okoume for the hull and Sapele ribbon for the deck. Should you choose this boat to build, I hope you will be as happy with her as I am with mine. It is a terrific design and continues to exceed my expectations.

Garrett Lowell
10-02-2002, 09:21 AM
I'm building my Shellback with Bruynzeel Mahogany ply. I know it's very expensive, but I asked several professional builders what they would use, and Bruynzeel was the only answer I received. I plan on the Shellback being in the family for a long, long time.

Garrett Lowell
10-02-2002, 09:21 AM
I'm building my Shellback with Bruynzeel Mahogany ply. I know it's very expensive, but I asked several professional builders what they would use, and Bruynzeel was the only answer I received. I plan on the Shellback being in the family for a long, long time.

Garrett Lowell
10-02-2002, 09:21 AM
I'm building my Shellback with Bruynzeel Mahogany ply. I know it's very expensive, but I asked several professional builders what they would use, and Bruynzeel was the only answer I received. I plan on the Shellback being in the family for a long, long time.

Todd Bradshaw
10-02-2002, 02:20 PM
If the occume is also Bruynzeel brand, it is absolutely beautiful stuff. I used it to replace the bottom and motorwell on a Simmons skiff and it was a joy to work with. Their Regina, as I remember was supposed to be darker, stiffer and heavier than their occume. If the occume being offered isn't Bruynzeel, I'd find out who makes it and check the specs before buying it. It may be great stuff, but you want to be sure.

Todd Bradshaw
10-02-2002, 02:20 PM
If the occume is also Bruynzeel brand, it is absolutely beautiful stuff. I used it to replace the bottom and motorwell on a Simmons skiff and it was a joy to work with. Their Regina, as I remember was supposed to be darker, stiffer and heavier than their occume. If the occume being offered isn't Bruynzeel, I'd find out who makes it and check the specs before buying it. It may be great stuff, but you want to be sure.

Todd Bradshaw
10-02-2002, 02:20 PM
If the occume is also Bruynzeel brand, it is absolutely beautiful stuff. I used it to replace the bottom and motorwell on a Simmons skiff and it was a joy to work with. Their Regina, as I remember was supposed to be darker, stiffer and heavier than their occume. If the occume being offered isn't Bruynzeel, I'd find out who makes it and check the specs before buying it. It may be great stuff, but you want to be sure.

ken mcclure
10-02-2002, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
[QB]...Looking for the perfect christmas tree is like looking for the perfect spouse ...
QB]And the one you take winds up being too big on the bottom and too thin at the top. Both sexes.

ken mcclure
10-02-2002, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
[QB]...Looking for the perfect christmas tree is like looking for the perfect spouse ...
QB]And the one you take winds up being too big on the bottom and too thin at the top. Both sexes.

ken mcclure
10-02-2002, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by Ed Harrow:
[QB]...Looking for the perfect christmas tree is like looking for the perfect spouse ...
QB]And the one you take winds up being too big on the bottom and too thin at the top. Both sexes.

imported_Conrad
10-02-2002, 08:17 PM
My experience is the Regina is stiffer, stronger, and more rot resistent. I like the look better too- more consistent.

imported_Conrad
10-02-2002, 08:17 PM
My experience is the Regina is stiffer, stronger, and more rot resistent. I like the look better too- more consistent.

imported_Conrad
10-02-2002, 08:17 PM
My experience is the Regina is stiffer, stronger, and more rot resistent. I like the look better too- more consistent.

frameshop
10-05-2002, 05:14 PM
Dave; I am building Ken Hankinsons "cuddy sport 24" ( www.boatdesigns.com (http://www.boatdesigns.com) ) and went through this entire process last year. I went up to Condons in White Plains and looked at their Brunzyell and lesser quality plywoods. There was no way I could justify the price for the Brunzyell plywood even if it was to be finished bright. Their lesser quality was no more than luan underlayment with waterproof glue. I went to Harbour Sales in MD , quality was good but the prices were high. I think I bugged every supplier on the internet for samples, some of which I left in a bucket of water over the winter, until I settled on Edensaw in Washington state. I had looked at building "Pretty Marsh" and spoken with Doug hylan and he suggested that I use Meranti ply for its strength and durability ans opposed to Okume. You can ask 20 people and get 20 different responces. Edensaw has a BS6566 meranti ply from the mid $20.00 to mid $40.s' for 6,9 and 12 mm I bought a combination of BS1088 and BS 6566 and even with shipping it was substantially less than any East coast supplier. The quality is excellent. No voids or delaminations. The areas that I will be finishing bright, such as the tramsom, shears etc I will use Condons Honduran Mahogany laminated where necessary. I used Condon for my Haven 12 1/2 and their quality and service were excellent.

If you are interested my Haven is at the Haven builders site;

http://www.havenbuilders.com/netscape4.html builders, roger mullette

and my Cuddy sport is at www. imagestation.com search for "cuddy sport 24"

good luck with whatever you choose. Roger

frameshop
10-05-2002, 05:14 PM
Dave; I am building Ken Hankinsons "cuddy sport 24" ( www.boatdesigns.com (http://www.boatdesigns.com) ) and went through this entire process last year. I went up to Condons in White Plains and looked at their Brunzyell and lesser quality plywoods. There was no way I could justify the price for the Brunzyell plywood even if it was to be finished bright. Their lesser quality was no more than luan underlayment with waterproof glue. I went to Harbour Sales in MD , quality was good but the prices were high. I think I bugged every supplier on the internet for samples, some of which I left in a bucket of water over the winter, until I settled on Edensaw in Washington state. I had looked at building "Pretty Marsh" and spoken with Doug hylan and he suggested that I use Meranti ply for its strength and durability ans opposed to Okume. You can ask 20 people and get 20 different responces. Edensaw has a BS6566 meranti ply from the mid $20.00 to mid $40.s' for 6,9 and 12 mm I bought a combination of BS1088 and BS 6566 and even with shipping it was substantially less than any East coast supplier. The quality is excellent. No voids or delaminations. The areas that I will be finishing bright, such as the tramsom, shears etc I will use Condons Honduran Mahogany laminated where necessary. I used Condon for my Haven 12 1/2 and their quality and service were excellent.

If you are interested my Haven is at the Haven builders site;

http://www.havenbuilders.com/netscape4.html builders, roger mullette

and my Cuddy sport is at www. imagestation.com search for "cuddy sport 24"

good luck with whatever you choose. Roger

frameshop
10-05-2002, 05:14 PM
Dave; I am building Ken Hankinsons "cuddy sport 24" ( www.boatdesigns.com (http://www.boatdesigns.com) ) and went through this entire process last year. I went up to Condons in White Plains and looked at their Brunzyell and lesser quality plywoods. There was no way I could justify the price for the Brunzyell plywood even if it was to be finished bright. Their lesser quality was no more than luan underlayment with waterproof glue. I went to Harbour Sales in MD , quality was good but the prices were high. I think I bugged every supplier on the internet for samples, some of which I left in a bucket of water over the winter, until I settled on Edensaw in Washington state. I had looked at building "Pretty Marsh" and spoken with Doug hylan and he suggested that I use Meranti ply for its strength and durability ans opposed to Okume. You can ask 20 people and get 20 different responces. Edensaw has a BS6566 meranti ply from the mid $20.00 to mid $40.s' for 6,9 and 12 mm I bought a combination of BS1088 and BS 6566 and even with shipping it was substantially less than any East coast supplier. The quality is excellent. No voids or delaminations. The areas that I will be finishing bright, such as the tramsom, shears etc I will use Condons Honduran Mahogany laminated where necessary. I used Condon for my Haven 12 1/2 and their quality and service were excellent.

If you are interested my Haven is at the Haven builders site;

http://www.havenbuilders.com/netscape4.html builders, roger mullette

and my Cuddy sport is at www. imagestation.com search for "cuddy sport 24"

good luck with whatever you choose. Roger