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Norm Jackson
02-14-2001, 12:45 AM
I was trying to get a copy of the paper mentioned in the "Wood Technology" column of the Feb 2001 issue. The author of the paper is Lebow, S.T.; S.A. Halverson; J.J. Morell; and J. Simonsen. The paper is from USDA FPL.
The paper is on leachate from wood waste.
I am involved with trying to have a recycling company located on the shoreline in Victoria B.C. channel their leachate into holding tanks for treatment.
This company grinds up wood waste from building demolition and holds it a large pile until they can send it away to a pulp mill for hog fuel.
The wood waste pile has been sitting for over a year and catches on fire periodically from spontaneous combustion. The fire hoses dump hugh amounts of water on the pile while back hoes dig through it exposing the hot spots.
And the fire water carries everything into the harbour water. This harbour is very special as among other things, it supports a very large herring run. These herring will be coming into the brackish water to lay their eggs on the eel grass any week.
I would like to get a copy of the paper so I can present it, with my other research, to the powers that be to force this company to contain the runoff.
Thanks, Norm Jackson

Norm Jackson
02-14-2001, 12:45 AM
I was trying to get a copy of the paper mentioned in the "Wood Technology" column of the Feb 2001 issue. The author of the paper is Lebow, S.T.; S.A. Halverson; J.J. Morell; and J. Simonsen. The paper is from USDA FPL.
The paper is on leachate from wood waste.
I am involved with trying to have a recycling company located on the shoreline in Victoria B.C. channel their leachate into holding tanks for treatment.
This company grinds up wood waste from building demolition and holds it a large pile until they can send it away to a pulp mill for hog fuel.
The wood waste pile has been sitting for over a year and catches on fire periodically from spontaneous combustion. The fire hoses dump hugh amounts of water on the pile while back hoes dig through it exposing the hot spots.
And the fire water carries everything into the harbour water. This harbour is very special as among other things, it supports a very large herring run. These herring will be coming into the brackish water to lay their eggs on the eel grass any week.
I would like to get a copy of the paper so I can present it, with my other research, to the powers that be to force this company to contain the runoff.
Thanks, Norm Jackson

Norm Jackson
02-14-2001, 12:45 AM
I was trying to get a copy of the paper mentioned in the "Wood Technology" column of the Feb 2001 issue. The author of the paper is Lebow, S.T.; S.A. Halverson; J.J. Morell; and J. Simonsen. The paper is from USDA FPL.
The paper is on leachate from wood waste.
I am involved with trying to have a recycling company located on the shoreline in Victoria B.C. channel their leachate into holding tanks for treatment.
This company grinds up wood waste from building demolition and holds it a large pile until they can send it away to a pulp mill for hog fuel.
The wood waste pile has been sitting for over a year and catches on fire periodically from spontaneous combustion. The fire hoses dump hugh amounts of water on the pile while back hoes dig through it exposing the hot spots.
And the fire water carries everything into the harbour water. This harbour is very special as among other things, it supports a very large herring run. These herring will be coming into the brackish water to lay their eggs on the eel grass any week.
I would like to get a copy of the paper so I can present it, with my other research, to the powers that be to force this company to contain the runoff.
Thanks, Norm Jackson

NormMessinger
02-14-2001, 09:17 AM
The Forest Products Lab has a lot of material available on line. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/ I've found they are quite willing to copy pages and mail them out at no charge. Well, I only asked once. If they wont mail out of the U.S. perhaps I could relay.

Good luck.

--Norm

NormMessinger
02-14-2001, 09:17 AM
The Forest Products Lab has a lot of material available on line. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/ I've found they are quite willing to copy pages and mail them out at no charge. Well, I only asked once. If they wont mail out of the U.S. perhaps I could relay.

Good luck.

--Norm

NormMessinger
02-14-2001, 09:17 AM
The Forest Products Lab has a lot of material available on line. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/ I've found they are quite willing to copy pages and mail them out at no charge. Well, I only asked once. If they wont mail out of the U.S. perhaps I could relay.

Good luck.

--Norm

thechemist
02-14-2001, 11:27 AM
Asking politely or with great urgency gets a certain level of response.

Since the company is in business of making money it would be simpler to attack the basic purpose. Make it more expensive for them to do anything other than pursue your desired course of action for them.

Send them a bill for fire-control services.

Capture and contain all the runoff, drum it, and send it to a hazardous waste disposal site and send them the bill for THAT.

Have the fire department, with its mandate to respond to emergency conditions, go into their wood waste compost pile [and yes, big compost piles get very hot] and ventilate it such that the composting heat is dissipated without creating ignition and send them a bill for THAT.

Limit the size of compost pile thay can have on their property on the grounds that it is a fire hazard. If they exceed this, give them thirty days notice and them have the fire department go in, pack it all up in drums and send it off to a hazardous-waste-disposal site and send them the bill for THAT.

As long as you continue to be reasonable and argue that they really should Do The Right Thing you will get what you got.

Americans have a more aggressive attitude, while Canadians tend to be more conservative. The people running this company may actually be Americans, or may have been trained by Americans. You may need to hire an American or two to pay them a visit and Make Them An Offer They Cannot Refuse.

[This message has been edited by thechemist (edited 02-14-2001).]

thechemist
02-14-2001, 11:27 AM
Asking politely or with great urgency gets a certain level of response.

Since the company is in business of making money it would be simpler to attack the basic purpose. Make it more expensive for them to do anything other than pursue your desired course of action for them.

Send them a bill for fire-control services.

Capture and contain all the runoff, drum it, and send it to a hazardous waste disposal site and send them the bill for THAT.

Have the fire department, with its mandate to respond to emergency conditions, go into their wood waste compost pile [and yes, big compost piles get very hot] and ventilate it such that the composting heat is dissipated without creating ignition and send them a bill for THAT.

Limit the size of compost pile thay can have on their property on the grounds that it is a fire hazard. If they exceed this, give them thirty days notice and them have the fire department go in, pack it all up in drums and send it off to a hazardous-waste-disposal site and send them the bill for THAT.

As long as you continue to be reasonable and argue that they really should Do The Right Thing you will get what you got.

Americans have a more aggressive attitude, while Canadians tend to be more conservative. The people running this company may actually be Americans, or may have been trained by Americans. You may need to hire an American or two to pay them a visit and Make Them An Offer They Cannot Refuse.

[This message has been edited by thechemist (edited 02-14-2001).]

thechemist
02-14-2001, 11:27 AM
Asking politely or with great urgency gets a certain level of response.

Since the company is in business of making money it would be simpler to attack the basic purpose. Make it more expensive for them to do anything other than pursue your desired course of action for them.

Send them a bill for fire-control services.

Capture and contain all the runoff, drum it, and send it to a hazardous waste disposal site and send them the bill for THAT.

Have the fire department, with its mandate to respond to emergency conditions, go into their wood waste compost pile [and yes, big compost piles get very hot] and ventilate it such that the composting heat is dissipated without creating ignition and send them a bill for THAT.

Limit the size of compost pile thay can have on their property on the grounds that it is a fire hazard. If they exceed this, give them thirty days notice and them have the fire department go in, pack it all up in drums and send it off to a hazardous-waste-disposal site and send them the bill for THAT.

As long as you continue to be reasonable and argue that they really should Do The Right Thing you will get what you got.

Americans have a more aggressive attitude, while Canadians tend to be more conservative. The people running this company may actually be Americans, or may have been trained by Americans. You may need to hire an American or two to pay them a visit and Make Them An Offer They Cannot Refuse.

[This message has been edited by thechemist (edited 02-14-2001).]

Frank Wentzel
02-14-2001, 01:06 PM
Norm,

I am a recycling coordinator for a small county in Florida. Besides supervising a small yard waste mulching operation I have been involved in the state wood-waste rule-making process. Based on Florida regulations, where we have numerous yard waste mulching/composting operations, all water, storm generated or otherwise, must be contained on-site. The site design must include drainage retention areas (DRAs) designed to hold the runoff from a 100 year storm (which seems to happen about every 5 years). Slow percolation through the soil tends to remove most of the contamination. (Florida is the world's largest sand filter.) To further assist in the "detoxicification" some type of aeration such as a bubbler or a spray-type fountain might be useful in the operation you described. This would provide extra oxygen so that resident bacteria could break down the organics.

The untreated leachate would not likely be truely toxic, according to statutory definition, so hazardous waste disposal would not be warranted. But it would have a high "Biological Oxygen Demand" (BOD). This could deplete the water oxygen levels if it were to go directly into the bay. The extractives might also be somewhat unpleasant to life forms. Oxygenation and percolation should be quite adequate to protect your bay.

[This message has been edited by Frank Wentzel (edited 02-14-2001).]

Frank Wentzel
02-14-2001, 01:06 PM
Norm,

I am a recycling coordinator for a small county in Florida. Besides supervising a small yard waste mulching operation I have been involved in the state wood-waste rule-making process. Based on Florida regulations, where we have numerous yard waste mulching/composting operations, all water, storm generated or otherwise, must be contained on-site. The site design must include drainage retention areas (DRAs) designed to hold the runoff from a 100 year storm (which seems to happen about every 5 years). Slow percolation through the soil tends to remove most of the contamination. (Florida is the world's largest sand filter.) To further assist in the "detoxicification" some type of aeration such as a bubbler or a spray-type fountain might be useful in the operation you described. This would provide extra oxygen so that resident bacteria could break down the organics.

The untreated leachate would not likely be truely toxic, according to statutory definition, so hazardous waste disposal would not be warranted. But it would have a high "Biological Oxygen Demand" (BOD). This could deplete the water oxygen levels if it were to go directly into the bay. The extractives might also be somewhat unpleasant to life forms. Oxygenation and percolation should be quite adequate to protect your bay.

[This message has been edited by Frank Wentzel (edited 02-14-2001).]

Frank Wentzel
02-14-2001, 01:06 PM
Norm,

I am a recycling coordinator for a small county in Florida. Besides supervising a small yard waste mulching operation I have been involved in the state wood-waste rule-making process. Based on Florida regulations, where we have numerous yard waste mulching/composting operations, all water, storm generated or otherwise, must be contained on-site. The site design must include drainage retention areas (DRAs) designed to hold the runoff from a 100 year storm (which seems to happen about every 5 years). Slow percolation through the soil tends to remove most of the contamination. (Florida is the world's largest sand filter.) To further assist in the "detoxicification" some type of aeration such as a bubbler or a spray-type fountain might be useful in the operation you described. This would provide extra oxygen so that resident bacteria could break down the organics.

The untreated leachate would not likely be truely toxic, according to statutory definition, so hazardous waste disposal would not be warranted. But it would have a high "Biological Oxygen Demand" (BOD). This could deplete the water oxygen levels if it were to go directly into the bay. The extractives might also be somewhat unpleasant to life forms. Oxygenation and percolation should be quite adequate to protect your bay.

[This message has been edited by Frank Wentzel (edited 02-14-2001).]

Norm Jackson
02-14-2001, 10:53 PM
I like the idea of sending them a bill for the fire fighting services!
We are not all easy going, we do like to negotiate and I will not confront the owner/manager.
What I want them to do is contain the runoff and I will send the info on the Florida site along.
One of the major problems with the Waterway is the # of juristictions involved. I believe this is one reason why nothing has been done for the 10 years this company has been operating.
The USA angle is good as the scrap steel that is processed and stored on this property is sent to a smelter in Seattle Wa.
I had a great 6 minute spot on the local TV station and it has garnered some interest and awarness.

Thanks for the ideas, Keep them coming.
Norm

Norm Jackson
02-14-2001, 10:53 PM
I like the idea of sending them a bill for the fire fighting services!
We are not all easy going, we do like to negotiate and I will not confront the owner/manager.
What I want them to do is contain the runoff and I will send the info on the Florida site along.
One of the major problems with the Waterway is the # of juristictions involved. I believe this is one reason why nothing has been done for the 10 years this company has been operating.
The USA angle is good as the scrap steel that is processed and stored on this property is sent to a smelter in Seattle Wa.
I had a great 6 minute spot on the local TV station and it has garnered some interest and awarness.

Thanks for the ideas, Keep them coming.
Norm

Norm Jackson
02-14-2001, 10:53 PM
I like the idea of sending them a bill for the fire fighting services!
We are not all easy going, we do like to negotiate and I will not confront the owner/manager.
What I want them to do is contain the runoff and I will send the info on the Florida site along.
One of the major problems with the Waterway is the # of juristictions involved. I believe this is one reason why nothing has been done for the 10 years this company has been operating.
The USA angle is good as the scrap steel that is processed and stored on this property is sent to a smelter in Seattle Wa.
I had a great 6 minute spot on the local TV station and it has garnered some interest and awarness.

Thanks for the ideas, Keep them coming.
Norm