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Ed Harrow
09-07-2000, 12:46 PM
I hope I am not treading upon the non-commercial restrictions of the forum, but if anyone knows where I might pick up such a plane for relatively short money I'd appreciate a head's up. I can get a new Stanley from Highland for < $90, and a new Record from Lee Valley for < $100, so those are the targets.

I'm not looking for a collector's piece, but I don't want a junker, either. Thanks in advance. Ed

Ed Harrow
09-07-2000, 12:46 PM
I hope I am not treading upon the non-commercial restrictions of the forum, but if anyone knows where I might pick up such a plane for relatively short money I'd appreciate a head's up. I can get a new Stanley from Highland for < $90, and a new Record from Lee Valley for < $100, so those are the targets.

I'm not looking for a collector's piece, but I don't want a junker, either. Thanks in advance. Ed

Ed Harrow
09-07-2000, 12:46 PM
I hope I am not treading upon the non-commercial restrictions of the forum, but if anyone knows where I might pick up such a plane for relatively short money I'd appreciate a head's up. I can get a new Stanley from Highland for < $90, and a new Record from Lee Valley for < $100, so those are the targets.

I'm not looking for a collector's piece, but I don't want a junker, either. Thanks in advance. Ed

TomRobb
09-07-2000, 01:01 PM
Try the flea markets. Or how about garage sales? You know, the husband dies, the wife wants all that junk out of the basemant.... There's also old tool dealers. Do the SEARCH thingy on the upper right.

TomRobb
09-07-2000, 01:01 PM
Try the flea markets. Or how about garage sales? You know, the husband dies, the wife wants all that junk out of the basemant.... There's also old tool dealers. Do the SEARCH thingy on the upper right.

TomRobb
09-07-2000, 01:01 PM
Try the flea markets. Or how about garage sales? You know, the husband dies, the wife wants all that junk out of the basemant.... There's also old tool dealers. Do the SEARCH thingy on the upper right.

Ed Harrow
09-07-2000, 03:48 PM
Hey, look what I got:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=422333119

More than I wanted to spend, but it's a 7C

Ed Harrow
09-07-2000, 03:48 PM
Hey, look what I got:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=422333119

More than I wanted to spend, but it's a 7C

Ed Harrow
09-07-2000, 03:48 PM
Hey, look what I got:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=422333119

More than I wanted to spend, but it's a 7C

Paul
09-07-2000, 05:56 PM
Ed, try the Electronic Neanderthal we site. It has several web dealers. I have bought from several of the dealers. It's a great
place to shop for user tools. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/tools.html

Paul
09-07-2000, 05:56 PM
Ed, try the Electronic Neanderthal we site. It has several web dealers. I have bought from several of the dealers. It's a great
place to shop for user tools. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/tools.html

Paul
09-07-2000, 05:56 PM
Ed, try the Electronic Neanderthal we site. It has several web dealers. I have bought from several of the dealers. It's a great
place to shop for user tools. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/tools.html

Wayne Jeffers
09-07-2000, 10:22 PM
In my experience, there are plenty of old Stanley planes in good shape at or below the price of the new ones. The 50- to 100-year-old models, if in good shape, are far superior to the new ones. Look especially for the ones that are old enough to say "Bailey" on the toe.

I'm not talking about the rare models, or the ones that are virtually unused that the collectors have priced out of any sane person's reach. I'm talking good used tools in perfectly servicable condition, but showing the signs of normal use.

I don't know where he gets them, but the local used tool dealer has a good stock of old, never-used replacement parts for Stanley planes, plus lots of excellent quality used Stanley irons in good shape, priced to sell.

I'm sure you'll be happier with your purchase of the "experienced" model, as compared to a new Stanley. Enjoy!

Wayne

Wayne Jeffers
09-07-2000, 10:22 PM
In my experience, there are plenty of old Stanley planes in good shape at or below the price of the new ones. The 50- to 100-year-old models, if in good shape, are far superior to the new ones. Look especially for the ones that are old enough to say "Bailey" on the toe.

I'm not talking about the rare models, or the ones that are virtually unused that the collectors have priced out of any sane person's reach. I'm talking good used tools in perfectly servicable condition, but showing the signs of normal use.

I don't know where he gets them, but the local used tool dealer has a good stock of old, never-used replacement parts for Stanley planes, plus lots of excellent quality used Stanley irons in good shape, priced to sell.

I'm sure you'll be happier with your purchase of the "experienced" model, as compared to a new Stanley. Enjoy!

Wayne

Wayne Jeffers
09-07-2000, 10:22 PM
In my experience, there are plenty of old Stanley planes in good shape at or below the price of the new ones. The 50- to 100-year-old models, if in good shape, are far superior to the new ones. Look especially for the ones that are old enough to say "Bailey" on the toe.

I'm not talking about the rare models, or the ones that are virtually unused that the collectors have priced out of any sane person's reach. I'm talking good used tools in perfectly servicable condition, but showing the signs of normal use.

I don't know where he gets them, but the local used tool dealer has a good stock of old, never-used replacement parts for Stanley planes, plus lots of excellent quality used Stanley irons in good shape, priced to sell.

I'm sure you'll be happier with your purchase of the "experienced" model, as compared to a new Stanley. Enjoy!

Wayne

Tom Lathrop
09-09-2000, 08:51 AM
I'm told that Stanley planes are now made by Record. Ditto the thought that good old ones are better than the new ones. Bailey was the guy who invented the adjustable frog on the planes and got to have his name put on the toe of the Stanleys.

If you buy one in a store, try placing two of them face-to-face to check whether the faces are flat. It's not unsual, when green castings are milled too soon, to find warpage on a brand new one. A number 7 is a pretty big plane unless you need to dress some long planks and have very strong arms and maybe back and legs also.

Just about any plane, Craftsman, etc, can be made to work as well as any other with a bit of effort in trueing and tuning. None of them, with the possible exception of the Lie Neilsons and other very high priced brands , will work well off the shelf.

Tom Lathrop
09-09-2000, 08:51 AM
I'm told that Stanley planes are now made by Record. Ditto the thought that good old ones are better than the new ones. Bailey was the guy who invented the adjustable frog on the planes and got to have his name put on the toe of the Stanleys.

If you buy one in a store, try placing two of them face-to-face to check whether the faces are flat. It's not unsual, when green castings are milled too soon, to find warpage on a brand new one. A number 7 is a pretty big plane unless you need to dress some long planks and have very strong arms and maybe back and legs also.

Just about any plane, Craftsman, etc, can be made to work as well as any other with a bit of effort in trueing and tuning. None of them, with the possible exception of the Lie Neilsons and other very high priced brands , will work well off the shelf.

Tom Lathrop
09-09-2000, 08:51 AM
I'm told that Stanley planes are now made by Record. Ditto the thought that good old ones are better than the new ones. Bailey was the guy who invented the adjustable frog on the planes and got to have his name put on the toe of the Stanleys.

If you buy one in a store, try placing two of them face-to-face to check whether the faces are flat. It's not unsual, when green castings are milled too soon, to find warpage on a brand new one. A number 7 is a pretty big plane unless you need to dress some long planks and have very strong arms and maybe back and legs also.

Just about any plane, Craftsman, etc, can be made to work as well as any other with a bit of effort in trueing and tuning. None of them, with the possible exception of the Lie Neilsons and other very high priced brands , will work well off the shelf.

Kermit
09-09-2000, 02:37 PM
I've yet to talk to a L-N owner who didn't find a need to true and tune. They may be some closer, but they are apparently not the Holy Grail of planes they appear to be. Good they are, very pretty, but don't expect perfection if you're a bit of a perfectionist.

That said, some of the L-Ns are a good deal IF you are not into searching out old ones at reasonable prices. The collectors are pushing the prices of the more unusual planes beyond the price of an L-N. One thing to remember is that the L-N planes are patterned on the old Stanley Bedrock line, which ARE a notch or two better than the Stanley-Record-Bailey planes commonly found. L-N irons are excellent, and that may be a deciding factor.

Before reaching for your wallet, ask yourself just what it is you expect your planes to do for you. Most folks building boats are not building fine furniture. Of course there are those who are more into their tools and the building of the boat than in using the finished craft.

For most, the best advice is to buy used and cheap if you can, then clean, sharpen, true, and tune. If you can get your hands on one like yours (say, belonging to a friend) that has had the iron replaced with a Hock or Cliffton, try it and see if you can tell the difference. If you can't, leave your wallet in your pocket.

[This message has been edited by Kermit (edited 09-09-2000).]

Kermit
09-09-2000, 02:37 PM
I've yet to talk to a L-N owner who didn't find a need to true and tune. They may be some closer, but they are apparently not the Holy Grail of planes they appear to be. Good they are, very pretty, but don't expect perfection if you're a bit of a perfectionist.

That said, some of the L-Ns are a good deal IF you are not into searching out old ones at reasonable prices. The collectors are pushing the prices of the more unusual planes beyond the price of an L-N. One thing to remember is that the L-N planes are patterned on the old Stanley Bedrock line, which ARE a notch or two better than the Stanley-Record-Bailey planes commonly found. L-N irons are excellent, and that may be a deciding factor.

Before reaching for your wallet, ask yourself just what it is you expect your planes to do for you. Most folks building boats are not building fine furniture. Of course there are those who are more into their tools and the building of the boat than in using the finished craft.

For most, the best advice is to buy used and cheap if you can, then clean, sharpen, true, and tune. If you can get your hands on one like yours (say, belonging to a friend) that has had the iron replaced with a Hock or Cliffton, try it and see if you can tell the difference. If you can't, leave your wallet in your pocket.

[This message has been edited by Kermit (edited 09-09-2000).]

Kermit
09-09-2000, 02:37 PM
I've yet to talk to a L-N owner who didn't find a need to true and tune. They may be some closer, but they are apparently not the Holy Grail of planes they appear to be. Good they are, very pretty, but don't expect perfection if you're a bit of a perfectionist.

That said, some of the L-Ns are a good deal IF you are not into searching out old ones at reasonable prices. The collectors are pushing the prices of the more unusual planes beyond the price of an L-N. One thing to remember is that the L-N planes are patterned on the old Stanley Bedrock line, which ARE a notch or two better than the Stanley-Record-Bailey planes commonly found. L-N irons are excellent, and that may be a deciding factor.

Before reaching for your wallet, ask yourself just what it is you expect your planes to do for you. Most folks building boats are not building fine furniture. Of course there are those who are more into their tools and the building of the boat than in using the finished craft.

For most, the best advice is to buy used and cheap if you can, then clean, sharpen, true, and tune. If you can get your hands on one like yours (say, belonging to a friend) that has had the iron replaced with a Hock or Cliffton, try it and see if you can tell the difference. If you can't, leave your wallet in your pocket.

[This message has been edited by Kermit (edited 09-09-2000).]

TomRobb
09-11-2000, 01:16 PM
Re: L.N. planes v Perfection. For a true anal retentive perfectionist even God couldn't make a perfect plane. That holy grail is for those who'd rather fuss than get the job done.
My monday morning rant. (bad weekend....)Sorry if I've gored your ox.

TomRobb
09-11-2000, 01:16 PM
Re: L.N. planes v Perfection. For a true anal retentive perfectionist even God couldn't make a perfect plane. That holy grail is for those who'd rather fuss than get the job done.
My monday morning rant. (bad weekend....)Sorry if I've gored your ox.

TomRobb
09-11-2000, 01:16 PM
Re: L.N. planes v Perfection. For a true anal retentive perfectionist even God couldn't make a perfect plane. That holy grail is for those who'd rather fuss than get the job done.
My monday morning rant. (bad weekend....)Sorry if I've gored your ox.

Tom Lathrop
09-11-2000, 02:55 PM
Tom, I can't tell from your post just what your rant implies about "perfection" in a hand plane. I judge a plane by what it is capable of doing in the hands of a good woodworker. True, there aint much use for yard long shavings that you can read newsprint thru but a plane than can generate those can also probably go through knots and tangled grain and will be easier on the muscles. A good plane must have a flat-smooth shoe, a sharp iron of proper shape, a sharp well fitted cap iron and an adequate means of adjustment. Any but the cheapest hardware store planes can be made to do that kind of work and all else is frills.

Still there is room for the extras and frills in my workshop if I can afford it and I do admire fine tools.

Tom Lathrop
09-11-2000, 02:55 PM
Tom, I can't tell from your post just what your rant implies about "perfection" in a hand plane. I judge a plane by what it is capable of doing in the hands of a good woodworker. True, there aint much use for yard long shavings that you can read newsprint thru but a plane than can generate those can also probably go through knots and tangled grain and will be easier on the muscles. A good plane must have a flat-smooth shoe, a sharp iron of proper shape, a sharp well fitted cap iron and an adequate means of adjustment. Any but the cheapest hardware store planes can be made to do that kind of work and all else is frills.

Still there is room for the extras and frills in my workshop if I can afford it and I do admire fine tools.

Tom Lathrop
09-11-2000, 02:55 PM
Tom, I can't tell from your post just what your rant implies about "perfection" in a hand plane. I judge a plane by what it is capable of doing in the hands of a good woodworker. True, there aint much use for yard long shavings that you can read newsprint thru but a plane than can generate those can also probably go through knots and tangled grain and will be easier on the muscles. A good plane must have a flat-smooth shoe, a sharp iron of proper shape, a sharp well fitted cap iron and an adequate means of adjustment. Any but the cheapest hardware store planes can be made to do that kind of work and all else is frills.

Still there is room for the extras and frills in my workshop if I can afford it and I do admire fine tools.

TomRobb
09-11-2000, 10:20 PM
I'd guess that most of us admire fine tools and scary sharp edges for esthetic reasons as well as for the work they help us do. My rant was against the perfectionist urge and perfectionism, the inability to be satisfied with a workmanlike job. It can reduce itself to hubris. The dam thing can and does drive our loved ones crazy and if taken to extremes will lead to a paralysis of the will. Nothing will ever be good enough. This is not a case for slovenliness. Just a plea for moderation, wisdom, and humility.

TomRobb
09-11-2000, 10:20 PM
I'd guess that most of us admire fine tools and scary sharp edges for esthetic reasons as well as for the work they help us do. My rant was against the perfectionist urge and perfectionism, the inability to be satisfied with a workmanlike job. It can reduce itself to hubris. The dam thing can and does drive our loved ones crazy and if taken to extremes will lead to a paralysis of the will. Nothing will ever be good enough. This is not a case for slovenliness. Just a plea for moderation, wisdom, and humility.

TomRobb
09-11-2000, 10:20 PM
I'd guess that most of us admire fine tools and scary sharp edges for esthetic reasons as well as for the work they help us do. My rant was against the perfectionist urge and perfectionism, the inability to be satisfied with a workmanlike job. It can reduce itself to hubris. The dam thing can and does drive our loved ones crazy and if taken to extremes will lead to a paralysis of the will. Nothing will ever be good enough. This is not a case for slovenliness. Just a plea for moderation, wisdom, and humility.

Tom Lathrop
09-12-2000, 09:10 AM
I didn't mean for my post to sound contentious. I got your meaning and agree with your thoughts completely. I've fallen off both ends of that stick at times.

Tom Lathrop
09-12-2000, 09:10 AM
I didn't mean for my post to sound contentious. I got your meaning and agree with your thoughts completely. I've fallen off both ends of that stick at times.

Tom Lathrop
09-12-2000, 09:10 AM
I didn't mean for my post to sound contentious. I got your meaning and agree with your thoughts completely. I've fallen off both ends of that stick at times.

TomRobb
09-13-2000, 09:18 AM
Well, yah. I knew I was ranting. It really has been/is a trial here at work lately. Worry not.

TomRobb
09-13-2000, 09:18 AM
Well, yah. I knew I was ranting. It really has been/is a trial here at work lately. Worry not.

TomRobb
09-13-2000, 09:18 AM
Well, yah. I knew I was ranting. It really has been/is a trial here at work lately. Worry not.

Bob Cleek
10-11-2000, 03:26 AM
Got my #7 at a garage sale for six bucks, still in the box! LOL (Gloat, Gloat!) Definitely buy one at a garage sale. Make it a habit to stop when you see one that may have tools. You can get all the parts for Stanley/Record planes from Stanley. Send for their parts sheets. Surprisingly inexpensive, too. There's little you can do to hurt them that can't be fixed. The best planes I've ever played with were a testament to the guy that sharpened and set them, more than anything else. I've played with other guys' Lie Nielsens and warn't impressed. You should have seen the look of horror on one guy's face when I suggested he ought to grind the iron and hone a new edge on it! LOL He just liked owing it, I think. Never built diddly with it.

Bob Cleek
10-11-2000, 03:26 AM
Got my #7 at a garage sale for six bucks, still in the box! LOL (Gloat, Gloat!) Definitely buy one at a garage sale. Make it a habit to stop when you see one that may have tools. You can get all the parts for Stanley/Record planes from Stanley. Send for their parts sheets. Surprisingly inexpensive, too. There's little you can do to hurt them that can't be fixed. The best planes I've ever played with were a testament to the guy that sharpened and set them, more than anything else. I've played with other guys' Lie Nielsens and warn't impressed. You should have seen the look of horror on one guy's face when I suggested he ought to grind the iron and hone a new edge on it! LOL He just liked owing it, I think. Never built diddly with it.

Bob Cleek
10-11-2000, 03:26 AM
Got my #7 at a garage sale for six bucks, still in the box! LOL (Gloat, Gloat!) Definitely buy one at a garage sale. Make it a habit to stop when you see one that may have tools. You can get all the parts for Stanley/Record planes from Stanley. Send for their parts sheets. Surprisingly inexpensive, too. There's little you can do to hurt them that can't be fixed. The best planes I've ever played with were a testament to the guy that sharpened and set them, more than anything else. I've played with other guys' Lie Nielsens and warn't impressed. You should have seen the look of horror on one guy's face when I suggested he ought to grind the iron and hone a new edge on it! LOL He just liked owing it, I think. Never built diddly with it.

Ed Harrow
10-11-2000, 12:41 PM
Geez, Bob, if I were as old as you I'd have bought it new for $3. http://media4.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif

Ed Harrow
10-11-2000, 12:41 PM
Geez, Bob, if I were as old as you I'd have bought it new for $3. http://media4.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif

Ed Harrow
10-11-2000, 12:41 PM
Geez, Bob, if I were as old as you I'd have bought it new for $3. http://media4.hypernet.com/~dick/ubb/smile.gif