canvas deck, small disappointment

[ron ll]

I decided to canvas the lower deck on my boat to help control some persistant leak problems. After much research, I decided on the "irish felt" method rather than bedding to the deck. My reasoning being that the planks "come and go" a bit and I didn't want that to buckle or tear the canvas.

It turned out fine and I'm sure it will keep out the leaks. But as it is a walking deck, I'm a little disappointed in my choice of not bedding the canvas. Even tho the deck is crowned, as you walk on it you notice the very slight gap under the canvas. Maybe that will go away in time or maybe I'll just get used to it? http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/starbord.jpg

[shellback]

The boat is beautiful. But don't understand the problem with the canvas. I've done canvas decks several times and set it canvas and planking cement. Not easy to find these days but not unavailable.

[Rick Tyler]

I think your boat is completely useless with a deck like that. You should give it to me.

- Rick

[Thorne]

No need to give the boat to Rick - there's an easier way:

Take pieces of 1'x 2' canvas and finish non-skid. Laminate to a firm backing material like 1/8" marine ply.

Trim pieces to fit inside your boatshoes, and voila! You can walk about and feel that firm canvas on your bare tootsies...

...lovely boat, BTW!

;- )

[Carlsboats]

That is one handsome boat. No, I have no magic solution to the "floating" canvas problem. But having canvassed a couple of decks without gluing
the canvas down in any bedding, I can only suggest that you bed down a few strategically placed deck fittings -- maybe cleats or fore and aft teak strips to improve foothold -- to take out the bounce. My installation technique --stretch the canvas, wet it to shrink it, paint it while still wet -- has given me a fore deck seven feet wide and almost seven feet long, which is drum tight, but it does has a few hold-downs (a big mooring cleat in the middle, plus the two ends of a jib boom traveler) so there is no free-floating area larger than about three by two feet.
.

[pcford]

Carlsboats described the same canvas method that I use.
Assuming you stretched the canvas and wet it down, you should be ok. I stretch the canvas, saturate, let dry, (it will shrink, then wet down and paint.

An Irish felt deck does feel a bit different than a deck which is glued down. It should feel like the canvas is padded with the felt. The felt prevents "hard places", prevents premature wear and creates a longer lasting deck.

If you can push the canvas down with your finger and see significant movement then you have a problem. The canvas was not tight enough before painting. Or perhaps the substrate is not fair.

By the way, congratulations on your beautiful 3D work!

[pipefitter]

That is about a sweet looking boat.

[ron ll]

Thanks all for the encouragement. The "floating" canvas is not really that much of a problem, it is very tight, and looks great. I think part of it was that the planking was not that fair when I started, plus as was stated, an irish felt deck simply has a little different feel than a bedded canvas deck. No, I can't actually see movement when I press on it, more just the difference in "feel". It'll be fine.

Couple of more pix of "Snoose" my converted 1943 salmon troller. Not important to the thread, I just like showing it smile.gif . http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/profile.jpg http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/sling.jpg

[yorgie]

Now you're just showing off. :D
In my wishful boat collection I have an old double ended gillnetter about that size.What a beauty.

Chris

[ron ll]

I may have figured out the "problem" with the floating feeling of the canvas. I didn't say so before because I didn't think it important, that altho I used the irish felt method as opposed to the paint bedding method, I didn't actually use Irish felt. I tried hard to find it, even in a wooden boat friendly city like Seattle to no avail, even Defender no longer carries it. So I used two layers of building paper. I now think that the floating feel is due to the fact that the building paper still has a memory curve from being on a roll, therefore is reluctant to lay flat. If this is the case, I think it will eventually go away, if not this winter, surely next summer when it gets warm.

I have never actually seen Irish felt. I'm hoping the building paper was an okay alternative.

[pcford]

Doc Freeman's (RIP) used to have it. Don't know if Fisheries has it.

It seems like the last stuff I bought was from Ballard Hardware.

Irish felt is vaguely like roofing paper. Irish felt is thicker and more pungent. Perhaps the smell is related to anti-rot problems.

Irish felt also has the roll "memory problems". I've ironed it.

[ron ll]

Yeah, I really miss Doc Freemans. Fisheries no longer carries Irish felt, but they gave me the name of their distributer who I called but he could not help. Ballard hardware didn't know what Irish felt was, perhaps that was just the person I encountered at the desk that day.

BTW, Stoneway Hardware bought most of Doc's stock of fasteners so they are a really good source now.

[JimD]

Ron II, she's really a beautiful boat. Do you know anything more of her history? Designer? Builder? Was the aft cabin added before or after you got her?

[ 10-21-2005, 01:06 PM: Message edited by: JimD ]

[ron ll]

Built by Art Hoffman in Hoffman Cove, Shaw Island WA, 1943. Art cut the old growth Doug Fir from his property, milled it, built the boat and then fished it as a troller for most of his life. Then his nephew Henry Hoffman fished it for a while. I bought it from Kris King three years ago. Kris fished it as a gillnetter for a few years then in the mid-nineties converted it by adding the aft cabin designed by Geoff Pratt. (see http://www.sanjuanislander.com/features/boats/sinbad.shtml more pix there also)

I think Geoff did a great job with the curves and scale of the aft cabin. So many conversions are done boxy and awkward.

In another thread, Paul Pless asked for pix of the stern, so here is one plus one exaggerating its narrowness. I have the origninal mast and boom which I'm going to install for a steadying sail and dinghy lifting. I almost think with the shape of the bottom, I could sail her to weather smile.gif .
http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/stern.JPG http://www.ronlloyd.com/oddstuff/narrow.JPG

[Bob Cleek]

The "give" that you see with a canvassed deck, particularly with the thicker softer Irish felt underlayment, is normal. In fact, this is why there is still a custom of having guests remove hard shoes before boarding a yacht. The sharp edges of soles and heels, not to mention ladies' spike heels, can punch through and cut the canvas.

Sorry to hear Defender no longer carries Irish felt. I would expect it is obtainable through roofing suppliers. They call it asphalt felt, I believe. It comes in various roll sized and thicknesses.

[pcford]

Hi Ron,
Gave Peter Proctor a call at Jensen's. They said they get it from Fisheries. Also Seattle Marine has it. I couldn't find it on the fisheries website. I'd check downstairs in wholesale if you ever need it again.

[Paul Pless]

thanks for those pics,


I almost think with the shape of the bottom, I could sail her to weather .
I'd say she'd probably sail on all points pretty well. Its very cool that you know the complete history to your boat.

[ 10-21-2005, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Paul Pless ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

So does she tend to roll a little...

Alan

[Paul Pless]

LOL

[ron ll]

pcford:

Peter Proctor is my neighbor smile.gif . Joe Bakkatun and John Thomas have done some planking on Snoose. No, Fisheries used to carry Irish felt, they no longer do. They were very nice about trying to track it down for me, but it ended up a dead-end. Same with Seattle Marine, they used to have it, but no more. BTW, where are you, what boat(s) do you have?

Re. rolling:

Actually she doesn't roll as much as you would think. Poured concrete ballast, 28,000 lbs displacement. Sam Devlin's "Josephine" is a very similar boat but it is a LOT more tender than Snoose.

[ 10-21-2005, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: ron ll ]

[pcford]

Peter Proctor is my neighbor [Smile] . Joe Bakkatun and John Thomas have done some planking on Snoose. No, Fisheries used to carry Irish felt, they no longer do. They were very nice about trying to track it down for me, but it ended up a dead-end. Same with Seattle Marine, they used to have it, but no more. BTW, where are you, what boat(s) do you have? All first rate guys and terrific boatwrights.

I live in Fremont; close enough that I can hear the horns on the bridge. I don't have a boat presently (used to have a Chris Racing Runabout). I've done boatwright stuff since the early seventies. Since about 1980, I've specialized in runabouts. I've been involved in the Antique and Classic Boat Society (ACBS... mostly speedboats) I shut my shop down in the dot com excitement and jumped on the bandwagon. Just in time to follow it down in flames. Subsquently, I've been doing web stuff and working on boats. Mostly boats lately. Did part of an interior on a Feadship last spring. Lately I've been doing video stuff...shooting corporate videos and projects in the "artistic" vein. Doing a shoot tomorrow for the later variety.

Again, from someone who knows a bit about graphics programs, I salute your 3D skill.

Your name seems vaguely familiar,but my brain is a sieve for names.