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sdowney717
10-27-2014, 08:07 PM
http://www.examiner.com/article/machines-flip-gop-votes-to-democrats-maryland

Well now that is interesting, to see the electronic machines trying to cast votes biased for democrats.
These democrats, maybe they have some sneaky software changing the will of the voter?
Come on now do you doubt the story!
And even if its true, does it bother you, say your a democrat, to see a republican vote get flipped, some poor unfortunate voter goes in there and their vote gets changed? Seems like they were saying it kept flipping to democrat, and happening to a sheriff, you'd think such a person would be trustworthy.

Flying Orca
10-27-2014, 08:08 PM
Huh. I thought artificial intelligence was still years off.

Chip-skiff
10-27-2014, 09:03 PM
Huh. I thought artificial intelligence was still years off.

Stop. you're killing me.

Actually, let me know what machines those are and I'll order a few truckloads sent to Wyoming.

genglandoh
10-27-2014, 09:10 PM
http://www.examiner.com/article/machines-flip-gop-votes-to-democrats-maryland

Well now that is interesting, to see the electronic machines trying to cast votes biased for democrats.
These democrats, maybe they have some sneaky software changing the will of the voter?
Come on now do you doubt the story!
And even if its true, does it bother you, say your a democrat, to see a republican vote get flipped, some poor unfortunate voter goes in there and their vote gets changed? Seems like they were saying it kept flipping to democrat, and happening to a sheriff, you'd think such a person would be trustworthy.

Voting machines across the country are changing votes from Rep to Dem.

1. Illinois
Calibration Error Displays GOP Vote To Dems
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/10/...-vote-to-dems/ (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/10/23/calibration-error-switches-gop-vote-to-dems/)

2. Maryland
Voting issues reported as Md. candidates begin home stretch
The Maryland State Board of Elections is investigating complaints that voting machines are flipping Republican votes to Democrat. Complaints of vote-flipping, as some call it, are coming from as many as nine Maryland counties, including Anne Arundel, Montgomery, Frederick, Howard, Queen Anne's and Baltimore counties. State elections officials said they have a team of people looking into the complaints.
http://www.wbaltv.com/politics/votin...retch/29354932 (http://www.wbaltv.com/politics/voting-issues-reported-as-md-candidates-being-home-stretch/29354932)

3. Iowa
Claims Of Voting Machine Issues In Rock Island County
"It's wide spread throughout Rock Island County. It's even happening here at the courthouse and the big thing that we are looking for you now is we want to make sure that our votes count. Our votes matter."
http://www.kwqc.com/story/26888030/c...-island-county (http://www.kwqc.com/story/26888030/claims-of-voting-machine-issues-in-rock-island-county)

ljb5
10-27-2014, 09:12 PM
If they really wanted to alter the results, they wouldn't make the error visible on the screen.

They'd just display the Republican result on screen and tally a vote for the Democrat.

Obviously, making the error visible to the user is both unnecessary (from a technological point of view) and counter-productive to the goal of influencing the outcome.

S.V. Airlie
10-27-2014, 09:21 PM
Goodie! I'm a rep and I voted for Cuomo! Hope they flipped it!

sdowney717
10-27-2014, 09:29 PM
It's the careless, trusting, idiotic, or older voter who might have a hard time seeing those boxes that such a device program will take advantage of to swing an election.
That likely covers a majority of the voter pool.

Ian McColgin
10-27-2014, 09:32 PM
Calibration errors both ways absolutely happen with the paperless machines. It is good that people noticed so those machines could be yanked. The threat of systemic fraud, hackers or the manufacturors or election officials reprogramming the machines to falsify the talley in ways you could not see at the time, are not known to have happened yet.

This is the sort of issue that shows how important poll watchers from each party be on hand. They are among our more important election volunteers.

ljb5
10-27-2014, 09:34 PM
From the memory hole: http://forum.woodenboat.com/archive/index.php/t-46967.html

A thread from eight years ago in which some of us complained about the poor reliability of electronic voting systems.



Here's a report from two years ago about voting machines changing votes from Obama to Romney.

Some of us have been complaining about blackbox voting for over a decade.

You guys are way late to the party and barking up the wrong tree.

mikefrommontana
10-27-2014, 09:42 PM
Surprised there aren't publicly viewable validation procedures in place. I do work as an election judge and it is amazing how many of these machines (we use paper ballot tabulators) fail during testing.

Any election bureau without a testing protocol (and spare machines) is doing their electorate an injustice--by accident or design.

CWSmith
10-27-2014, 09:49 PM
I think all of you are missing the big story. Look at the 2nd story on the same page: Earth-sized UFO orbiting Sun in NASA photographs.

It's a cr@p publication written for gullible fools.

htom
10-27-2014, 10:10 PM
The display of the changed vote was a fault in the beta left over from the testing procedures; in the real code that will be fixed. -- Announcement by the [redacted] Party.

MiddleAgesMan
10-27-2014, 11:50 PM
From the memory hole: http://forum.woodenboat.com/archive/index.php/t-46967.html

A thread from eight years ago in which some of us complained about the poor reliability of electronic voting systems.



Here's a report from two years ago about voting machines changing votes from Obama to Romney.

Some of us have been complaining about blackbox voting for over a decade.

You guys are way late to the party and barking up the wrong tree.

If you will allow it I will put this in my own words.

It's about time.

Gerarddm
10-28-2014, 01:03 AM
And vice versa.

I swear, somebody at Diebold should be in jail by now.

Ian McColgin
10-28-2014, 06:05 AM
"I swear, somebody at Diebold should be in jail by now." [#14]

Nah. Wally O'Dell got away with all of it.

Phillip Allen
10-28-2014, 06:11 AM
it doesn't take deep thought to see who among us would rig an election... just read the responses

Ian McColgin
10-28-2014, 06:46 AM
No one on this Forum, none of the right and none of the left, is an election rigging cheat. Post #16 is a flat lie and Phillip knows it. By his coy not naming names, Phillip establishes that he is a coward as well.

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 09:07 AM
Calibration errors both ways absolutely happen with the paperless machines. It is good that people noticed so those machines could be yanked. The threat of systemic fraud, hackers or the manufacturors or election officials reprogramming the machines to falsify the talley in ways you could not see at the time, are not known to have happened yet.

This is the sort of issue that shows how important poll watchers from each party be on hand. They are among our more important election volunteers.

So far the machines are only changing Rep votes to Dem.

ljb5
10-28-2014, 09:37 AM
So far the machines are only changing Rep votes to Dem.

Not true.

There was a report of two machines in Collin County, Texas switching straight-party Democratic votes to Republican last Monday.

We've been discussing this issue for years, including reports of Obama votes being switched to Romney two years ago.

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 09:38 AM
Not true.

There was a report of two machines in Collin County, Texas switching straight-party Democratic votes to Republican last Monday.

We've been discussing this issue for years, including reports of Obama votes being switched to Romney two years ago.

Can you provide a link to the story.
Thanks in advance.

ljb5
10-28-2014, 09:43 AM
Reports of vote flipping in Tennessee from pro-choice to pro-life on Amendment 1.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=10898

John of Phoenix
10-28-2014, 09:43 AM
No one on this Forum, none of the right and none of the left, is an election rigging cheat. Post #16 is a flat lie and Phillip knows it. By his coy not naming names, Phillip establishes that he is a coward as well.It's been his MO for over 50,000 posts. Entirely predictable.
============

Regarding the voting machines - rove must be livid and looking for a new software hacker.

ljb5
10-28-2014, 09:44 AM
Can you provide a link to the story.
Thanks in advance.

Of course, I can. But you need to google it yourself.

Seriously, you need to invest some time and effort in developing the habit and skill of verifying stuff for yourself.

It will save us all a lot of hassle, (and you some embarrassment). I can point you in the right direction, but I can't do it for you.

Phillip Allen
10-28-2014, 09:44 AM
no, he can't

John of Phoenix
10-28-2014, 09:49 AM
Here's another story from that same "news" site.

'Earth-sized' UFO orbiting Sun reported: New photos captured by NASA shows image

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_large/hash/bf/6f/bf6f40009f4ff4bd9b4cb3f523356770.jpg?itok=q5mHnIiU


Come on now do you doubt the story!

ljb5
10-28-2014, 10:09 AM
no, he can't

I'll bet even you could do it.

But you won't.

Bubba L.
10-28-2014, 10:13 AM
I think all of you are missing the big story. Look at the 2nd story on the same page: Earth-sized UFO orbiting Sun in NASA photographs.

It's a cr@p publication written for gullible fools.

The Examiner?! How can you say that??!!

Gene

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 10:23 AM
Of course, I can. But you need to google it yourself.

Seriously, you need to invest some time and effort in developing the habit and skill of verifying stuff for yourself.

It will save us all a lot of hassle, (and you some embarrassment). I can point you in the right direction, but I can't do it for you.

When I make a statement I normally back it up with supporting material and the links so others can read the full story.

All I am asking is you to do the same and support your statements.
If you can great we can all read the entire story.
If you can not then it is hard to take your statements seriously.

Ian McColgin
10-28-2014, 10:30 AM
Since our righties are too lazy to check, I'd expect them to be too lazy to read the follow-up story. But whatever:

http://www.texastribune.org/2010/10/22/e-voting-suit-reveals-frailties-of-the-ballot-box/
E-Voting Suit Reveals Frailties of the Ballot Box
by Morgan Smith Oct. 22, 2010 9Comments

It's the stuff of an Orwellian dystopia: a voting machine hacked, an election stolen, the public none the wiser. Yet some civil rights groups believe it's a real threat in Texas — one of only 12 states that allows a form of paperless voting, according to the Verified Voting Foundation, a nonprofit that lobbies on the issue nationwide.

Ensuring the purity of the ballot box has been a point of concern for lawmakers since "hanging chad" entered the national lexicon in 2000. Congress passed the Help America Vote Act in 2002 to improve the administration of federal elections, but an irony of post-Bush v. Gore reforms is that the electronic machines brought in to replace outdated lever-and-punch-card-based systems have their own flaws.

The Texas Supreme Court heard oral arguments last week in a lawsuit brought by the NAACP and the Texas Civil Rights Project against the secretary of state, which certifies voting machines used in counties across Texas. Lawyers for the groups allege that the state agency, when it certified machines that do not allow for an independent audit or verification of votes, violated its duty under the Texas Constitution to protect the integrity of elections.

The case, in litigation since 2006, has yet to go to trial. The high court was hearing an appeal on procedural grounds from the secretary of state, whose lawyers are challenging a lower court’s decision allowing the suit to go forward. If the Supreme Court rules against the state, a trial court could halt the use of direct electronic voting machines in precincts across Texas.

When voters cast a ballot, direct electronic voting machines, or DREs, automatically transmit their selections to a hard drive without maintaining a paper trail indicating how that vote was cast. In the event of a recount, a DRE simply recalculates the same numbers it has already reported. Without a way to independently audit votes, DRE systems are especially vulnerable to malfunction or tampering, according to Rice University professor Dan Wallach, who has conducted two nationally respected studies on paperless voting, including one in California that led the legislature there to abandon the use of DREs.

To corrupt the software in the current generation of e-voting machines, all a potential hacker would need is brief physical access to one of them, says Wallach, who is working with the Texas Civil Rights Project on its lawsuit. After that, Wallach says, an “infection” could quickly spread among machines, which are often networked together at polling places, or through the smart cards that poll workers routinely insert in each machine. Once voting results are corrupted, evidence of the hacking disappears.

So it’s impossible to know when — or even if — nefarious meddling with electronic ballot machines occurs. Wallach is careful to say that his studies focused on a “vulnerability that exists, not a vulnerability that’s being exploited.” But the machines also put the electoral system at risk from benign errors, Wallach says. The Texas Civil Rights Project’s brief before the high court cites a number of irregularities: the loss of voting records in Collin County during the 2004 presidential election; the inclusion of 100,000 uncast votes from Tarrant County during the March 2006 election; the alteration of votes from one party to another in Collin, Dallas, El Paso, Galveston, Harris, Jefferson and Palo Pinto counties during the 2008 presidential election.

In Texas, county commissioners select the voting machines each precinct in the county will use from a list of approved devices distributed by the secretary of state’s office. Private vendors apply for certification from the state agency, which puts them through a lengthy examination process in which they undergo vigorous security tests, including a public hearing, twice a year, according to Ann McGeehan, who supervises elections for the secretary of state. Voters in the state's most populous counties — Bexar, Harris, Tarrant, El Paso and Dallas — will cast their ballots on DREs this election cycle.

The NAACP/Texas Civil Rights Project lawsuit targets a particular DRE, called “eSlate,” made by Hart Intercivics. Marcus MacNeill, Hart’s vice president of products and partnerships, says 23,000 of them are deployed in 111 counties, including Tarrant and Harris, across the state. He says that while Hart machines have “proven to be very durable and reliable,” it’s also up to the individual counties to make sure they securely operate them and test them regularly. “It's one thing in a lab scenario where someone has access to the machine for several days” to figure out how to hack a machine, he says, and quite another for someone do that “just walking up to the machine in a polling place.”

“There's just simply no way to do that with our products,” MacNeill says.

The Texas Legislature has grappled with the right way to address paperless electronic voting. State Rep. Aaron Peņa, D-Edinburg, introduced legislation in the 2005, 2007 and 2009 sessions that would have required the independent verification of DREs. He says the issue, politically charged when Democrats were questioning the validity of President George W. Bush’s election, has since become bipartisan as Republicans have recognized potential vulnerabilities of the existing system. But his bills have still failed to gain traction.

Wallach has testified before the Legislature on the topic and believes inaction at the Capitol stems from lawmakers giving too much deference to the county commissioners. “The vendor has told them things that aren't true, and they believe the vendor,” says Wallach, calling election officials’ confidence in the current systems — in light of research on their flaws — “baffling.”

Peņa, the vice chairman of the House Elections Committee, says he’s currently deciding whether to propose a new bill in the upcoming session. But since such a bill would have a fiscal note attached, the timing — when the state faces a budget shortfall projected to be as high as $21 billion — may not be right. He believes it will take a national debacle, like the one Florida faced in 2000, for the state to reform its voting practices.

“The way government normally works is that some big tragedy occurs and the problem is exposed. The problem here is that you'll never see it, because there's no evidence of a tragedy,” he says. “Because there's no paper trail, any mistakes that are made by the machines, or by the programmers, or by tampering, you'll never know they happened. So the outrage won't be there.”

McGeehan vouches for the machines currently in use. “There are no vulnerabilities. They meet security standards,” she says. “They wouldn't be certified if they didn't.” As for the possibility of tampering, McGeehan acknowledges “a lot of allegations” but no proof. She’s aware that some states have required a paper trail but says “that's really a policy issue.”

McNeill, of Hart Intercivics, points out that his company makes e-voting machines with an option for independent verification — but the state chooses not to mandate their use on the current machines. “We provide solutions to the market that the market needs,” he says. “It’s not that vendors don’t provide the option [for paper trails] and the state doesn’t have a choice. It’s just not a requirement in Texas today.”

# # #

wardd
10-28-2014, 10:32 AM
do i doubt the story, no

now the one about the voting machines is suspicious

ljb5
10-28-2014, 10:34 AM
When I make a statement I normally back it up with supporting material and the links so others can read the full story.

I realize you try, but you don't always succeed.

You said, "So far the machines are only changing Rep votes to Dem."

How did you arrive at the conclusion that its "only" changing Rep votes to Dem?

You did not back up that statement with supporting material.

In order to make a statement like that, you would have had to do a thorough and exhaustive search to verify that there were no cases of Dem votes changing to Rep.

Since you're the one who made the statement, you're the one who gets to vet it.

I've already helped you out. I told you which county to search for.

I'll even give you a link to Google, in case you can't find it: www.google.com

I've already found the story, so don't worry about me. If you want to find the story, that's something you're going to have to do for yourself.

Given the information I have given you, there is no excuse for you not being able to find the story.

More importantly: Given the claim you made, there is no excuse for you to not look for the story.

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 10:39 AM
I realize you try, but you don't always succeed.

You said, "So far the machines are only changing Rep votes to Dem."

How did you arrive at the conclusion that its "only" changing Rep votes to Dem?

You did not back up that statement with supporting material.

In order to make a statement like that, you would have had to do a thorough and exhaustive search to verify that there were no cases of Dem votes changing to Rep.

Since you're the one who made the statement, you're the one who gets to vet it.

I've already helped you out. I told you which county to search for.

I'll even give you a link to Google, in case you can't find it: www.google.com (http://www.google.com)

I've already found the story, so don't worry about me. If you want to find the story, that's something you're going to have to do for yourself.

Given the information I have given you, there is no excuse for you not being able to find the story.

More importantly: Given the claim you made, there is no excuse for you to not look for the story.

you must have not read my earlier post.
Here it is with the supporting material


Voting machines across the country are changing votes from Rep to Dem.

1. Illinois
Calibration Error Displays GOP Vote To Dems
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/10/...-vote-to-dems/ (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/10/23/calibration-error-switches-gop-vote-to-dems/)

2. Maryland
Voting issues reported as Md. candidates begin home stretch
The Maryland State Board of Elections is investigating complaints that voting machines are flipping Republican votes to Democrat. Complaints of vote-flipping, as some call it, are coming from as many as nine Maryland counties, including Anne Arundel, Montgomery, Frederick, Howard, Queen Anne's and Baltimore counties. State elections officials said they have a team of people looking into the complaints.
http://www.wbaltv.com/politics/votin...retch/29354932 (http://www.wbaltv.com/politics/voting-issues-reported-as-md-candidates-being-home-stretch/29354932)

3. Iowa
Claims Of Voting Machine Issues In Rock Island County
"It's wide spread throughout Rock Island County. It's even happening here at the courthouse and the big thing that we are looking for you now is we want to make sure that our votes count. Our votes matter."
http://www.kwqc.com/story/26888030/c...-island-county (http://www.kwqc.com/story/26888030/claims-of-voting-machine-issues-in-rock-island-county)

ljb5
10-28-2014, 10:47 AM
you must have not read my earlier post.
Here it is with the supporting material

I saw, that, but I also saw where you said, "So far the machines are only changing Rep votes to Dem."

That statement was not supported.

Perhaps you meant to say, "Of the few cases I am aware of at this time, it appears so far the machines are only changing Rep votes to Dem."

But now you have some additional information. There is no excuse for you to not go look for it.

Seriously, what's your excuse for not looking for the story I clued you in on? Are you afraid of what you might find? Or are you so incompetent that you don't know how to do a Google search?

johnw
10-28-2014, 03:30 PM
Here's another story from that same "news" site.

'Earth-sized' UFO orbiting Sun reported: New photos captured by NASA shows image

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_large/hash/bf/6f/bf6f40009f4ff4bd9b4cb3f523356770.jpg?itok=q5mHnIiU

Are you saying this isn't true? http://www.examiner.com/article/earth-sized-ufo-orbiting-sun-reported-new-photos-captured-by-nasa-shows-image

htom
10-28-2014, 04:11 PM
Someone saying that there is no way his company's voting machine software system could be hacked is ... probably wrong. Almost certainly wrong. It might not have been discovered to have been hacked yet,, but that is neither proof that it has not already been hacked nor that it is indeed unhackable.

Mark-scan ballots solve a lot of the tracking and recount problems. Not all, but many.

johnw
10-28-2014, 04:17 PM
Someone saying that there is no way his company's voting machine software system could be hacked is ... probably wrong. Almost certainly wrong. It might not have been discovered to have been hacked yet,, but that is neither proof that it has not already been hacked nor that it is indeed unhackable.

Mark-scan ballots solve a lot of the tracking and recount problems. Not all, but many.

Absolutely right. We need a paper trail.

ljb5
10-28-2014, 05:24 PM
How's your google search coming along, Genglandoh?

You do know how to use Google, dontcha?

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 05:28 PM
How's your google search coming along, Genglandoh?

You do know how to use Google, dontcha?

LOL you still want me to do your research for you.
Sorry but you need to support your own statements.

ljb5
10-28-2014, 05:32 PM
LOL you still want me to do your research for you.
Sorry but you need to support your own statements.

No, I already did the research.

I even told you where to look.

Try not to think of it as "your research" or "my research."

Just think of it as something you could know, but don't.

I already know it. You don't. (How do you not see that puts you at a disadvantage?)

There is no excuse of you not to know what you could know.... especially when you've already made a grandiose statement that you think you know so much.

BCarp
10-28-2014, 05:33 PM
I'm more worried about that unidentified flying sombrero.

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 05:37 PM
No, I already did the research.

I even told you where to look.

Try not to think of it as "your research" or "my research."

Just think of it as something you could know, but don't.

There is no excuse of you not to know what you could know.... especially when you've already made a grandiose statement that you think you know so much.

If there are voting machines that are switching Dem Vote to Rep Vote then please post it so we can all read the full story.
If you can not then people will think you are just making it up.

John Smith
10-28-2014, 05:59 PM
"I swear, somebody at Diebold should be in jail by now." [#14]

Nah. Wally O'Dell got away with all of it.

And the voting machines should have to have a photo ID.

Let us not forget that we hold ourselves up as the beacon of democracy.

ljb5
10-28-2014, 06:36 PM
If there are voting machines that are switching Dem Vote to Rep Vote then please post it so we can all read the full story.
If you can not then people will think you are just making it up.



It's your thread.

If you don't find the information and post it, people will think you're a partisan troll who doesn't care about honesty or integrity.

This is what Norm was talking about when he said you ignore information.

You started this thread. You posted only the information that conforms to your bias. There is more. I told you where to look... But you won't do it.

That's your problem. You need to deal with that. It's not on me to safeguard your honesty. You need to do that for yourself.

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 06:50 PM
It's your thread.

If you don't find the information and post it, people will think you're a partisan troll who doesn't care about honesty or integrity.

This is what Norm was talking about when he said you ignore information.

You started this thread. You posted only the information that conforms to your bias. There is more. I told you where to look... But you won't do it.

That's your problem. You need to deal with that. It's not on me to safeguard your honesty. You need to do that for yourself.

Calm down
1. I did not start this thread.
2. You said there are cases where Dem votes are switched to Rep.
3. You refuse to support your statements with links.
4. You for some reason think it is my responsibility to find the links you were thinking about.
5. I have not ignored any information because you have not posted any information.

I am sorry but it is your responsibility to support your statements.
If you can not then people will think you are making it up.

ljb5
10-28-2014, 07:09 PM
Calm down
1. I did not start this thread.

No, but you started another thread along the same lines in which you made the same accusation.


2. You said there are cases where Dem votes are switched to Rep.

Yes, and you could have said that too... if only you were willing to look. But you're unwilling to look.


3. You refuse to support your statements with links.

I did provide one link already. I also provided more than enough information for you to find additional links.

I am offering you the opportunity to find it for yourself, post it here and let everyone see whether or not you have integrity and honesty.


4. You for some reason think it is my responsibility to find the links you were thinking about.

Yes, I think everyone has a responsibility to find all available and relevant information. Anyone who would refuse to look for information lacks integrity.


5. I have not ignored any information because you have not posted any information.

I told you where and how to find it. You have ignored it.

The world is a big place with lots of information. You don't need me to post it here for it to exist.


I am sorry but it is your responsibility to support your statements.

And I think it's your responsibility to challenge and check yourself.


If you can not then people will think you are making it up.

Anyone who is interested can check. They don't have to wait for me to post it or for you to post it. They can do the same google search I already recommend to you.

I already have the information. Others can get it whenever they feel like.

You're the only one who refuses to look for it.

At this rate, you will be the last to know.

What does that make you?

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 07:18 PM
Not true.

There was a report of two machines in Collin County, Texas switching straight-party Democratic votes to Republican last Monday.

We've been discussing this issue for years, including reports of Obama votes being switched to Romney two years ago.

We are still waiting for you to support this statement.

Ian McColgin
10-28-2014, 07:25 PM
And we're still waiting for you to read my post, but as predicted you are too lazy.

The news this election cycle has indeed been a couple of machines that were not correctly reset after testing and switched R to D votes. Earlier in the cycle there were machines that systematically switched votes on a pro-life ballot. Before that, in elections over the last six years, machines have switched votes both ways but mosty D to R.

There does not as yet to be evidence of partisan fraud here. The paperless machines are a random problem. But if the righties want in this tense midterm election to prepare their fantasy excuse in case they don't manage a total coup, it fits the paranoia.

ljb5
10-28-2014, 07:26 PM
We are still waiting for you to support this statement.

The information is there, if you're willing to look for it.

The only question is why aren't you willing to look for it?

Integrity is the willingness to look for information that works against you, just as much as you would look for information that supports you.


Do you have integrity?

Are you willing to look for information that might tend to work against your bias?

Right now, it really looks like you are too scared, dishonest, or incompetent to look. Which is it?

Shang
10-28-2014, 07:34 PM
Are you saying this isn't true?

Oh damn! I just sold all of my furniture, thinking it was true.

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 07:35 PM
And we're still waiting for you to read my post, but as predicted you are too lazy.

The news this election cycle has indeed been a couple of machines that were not correctly reset after testing and switched R to D votes. Earlier in the cycle there were machines that systematically switched votes on a pro-life ballot. Before that, in elections over the last six years, machines have switched votes both ways but mosty D to R.

There does not as yet to be evidence of partisan fraud here. The paperless machines are a random problem. But if the righties want in this tense midterm election to prepare their fantasy excuse in case they don't manage a total coup, it fits the paranoia.

Sorry I was sidetracked.

You posted a 4 year old story that talked about problems with electronic voting machines.
The story does not talk about votes getting switched so there is not much to talk about.

Shang
10-28-2014, 07:38 PM
We are still waiting for you to support this statement.

"We?" You have a tape worm?

genglandoh
10-28-2014, 07:40 PM
"We?" You have a tape worm?

All three of us (me, myself and I) :)

ljb5
10-28-2014, 07:50 PM
Sorry I was sidetracked.

You posted a 4 year old story that talked about problems with electronic voting machines.
The story does not talk about votes getting switched so there is not much to talk about.

But he found the correct county and demonstrated how easy it is to find information using google. (www.google.com)

Now, all you have to do is change the year to 2014 and look.

Go for it! We know you can do it!

sdowney717
10-29-2014, 11:28 AM
I looked into this and found another problem which is non citizens voting, they have some kind of legal ID so voter ID laws really dont think it might matter to much. The ID was illegal for them to have. Uh, they said they could not serve on a jury when summoned as they are not citizens, but they are registered to vote??

http://marylandreporter.com/2014/10/28/republicans-question-faulty-voting-machines-federal-lawsuit-says-non-citizens-have-voted/

Lead me to finding this study on how many non citizens are voting.
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/391134/jaw-dropping-study-claims-large-numbers-non-citizens-vote-us-jim-geraghty

Certainly a bigger problem than I thought. Certainly enough to sway elections.

Washington Post took this up with some commentary, mostly showing they dont believe it.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/10/27/methodological-challenges-affect-study-of-non-citizens-voting/

ljb5
10-29-2014, 11:41 AM
I looked into this and found another problem which is non citizens voting...

That's a pretty shaky study. Apparently it relied on an earlier study of people who claimed to be non-citizens who voted. Only five such people were verified.

From that, they extrapolated rather grandly to a much larger population and then applied statistics that were derived from a different data set, which was almost entirely English-speaking citizens who voluntarily participated in an on-line survey.

John Smith
10-29-2014, 11:47 AM
For a number of years I've argued we should be as careful counting votes are we are when counting money. Let's look at 2000, in Florida, where they DID use paper. Remember the hanging chads?

That election was close enough for Florida law to automatically have a recount. The recount gave a different number than the first count. If that happened with money, we'd count a third time.

I had some experience some time back with chads. We ran them through the machines again, and again, until we got the same total twice. As they go through the machines, the hanging chads come off.

Why are we content with our system. Fox News the other day made a statement about Colorado's election method that was so wrong they actually had to retract some of it.

Colorado mails all its ballots, and people can either mail them back, or drop them off at a collection site. Fox said everyone in Colorado could print their ballot at their home computer; not true, and they did retract that. They did not retract the part about people at home having their ballot taken from their mail and filled out and sent in by someone else, or someone in the home from one's work being their when it arrives and intimidating the voter on how to vote.