Trailer Hitch

[Meerkat]

Who/where would I go to have a trailer hitch put on a small Japanese (Suzuki 4-dr) sedan? Something that will allow me to tow a few hundred # of boat. Any idea of cost? (No, I can't do it myself - no aptitude and worse, no tools or workspace!)

[Meerkat]

Who/where would I go to have a trailer hitch put on a small Japanese (Suzuki 4-dr) sedan? Something that will allow me to tow a few hundred # of boat. Any idea of cost? (No, I can't do it myself - no aptitude and worse, no tools or workspace!)

[Meerkat]

Who/where would I go to have a trailer hitch put on a small Japanese (Suzuki 4-dr) sedan? Something that will allow me to tow a few hundred # of boat. Any idea of cost? (No, I can't do it myself - no aptitude and worse, no tools or workspace!)

[Bob Smalser]

Depends on how heavy the trailer is...small boats and small cars can get by with an inexpensive Class I hitch. Make sure you know what size ball your trailer takes...1 7/8" is probably it. A 2" ball generally requires a Class II receiver attached to the frame.

But I suspect you are under 1000lbs, so a couple hundred bucks for a Class I oughta do it I think...half of that for figuring out your electrics for the lights.

U-Haul, many muffler shops and Freeway Trailer down in Milton below SEATAC do them.

[Bob Smalser]

Depends on how heavy the trailer is...small boats and small cars can get by with an inexpensive Class I hitch. Make sure you know what size ball your trailer takes...1 7/8" is probably it. A 2" ball generally requires a Class II receiver attached to the frame.

But I suspect you are under 1000lbs, so a couple hundred bucks for a Class I oughta do it I think...half of that for figuring out your electrics for the lights.

U-Haul, many muffler shops and Freeway Trailer down in Milton below SEATAC do them.

[Bob Smalser]

Depends on how heavy the trailer is...small boats and small cars can get by with an inexpensive Class I hitch. Make sure you know what size ball your trailer takes...1 7/8" is probably it. A 2" ball generally requires a Class II receiver attached to the frame.

But I suspect you are under 1000lbs, so a couple hundred bucks for a Class I oughta do it I think...half of that for figuring out your electrics for the lights.

U-Haul, many muffler shops and Freeway Trailer down in Milton below SEATAC do them.

[John Bell]

Look in the phone book under trailer hitches. If it can be done, there will be outfits who can do it for you for surprisingly little money. I think the class II reciever hitch on my Grand Prix was a little less $200 installed.

[John Bell]

Look in the phone book under trailer hitches. If it can be done, there will be outfits who can do it for you for surprisingly little money. I think the class II reciever hitch on my Grand Prix was a little less $200 installed.

[John Bell]

Look in the phone book under trailer hitches. If it can be done, there will be outfits who can do it for you for surprisingly little money. I think the class II reciever hitch on my Grand Prix was a little less $200 installed.

[Wayne Jeffers]

First, check your owner's manual for the towing capacity and maximum tongue weight. With luck, it won't say "Not Recommended" and hitches will therefore be available for your vehicle.

Check the Yellow Pages under "Trailer Hitches" and make a few calls. You'll probably find that prices vary considerably.

You're looking for a Class I hitch for your vehicle with the right size ball (1 7/8-inch? - check the coupling on your trailer) and you'll also need a 4-pin socket for the plug for the trailer lights. You're probably looking at $100 or a little more, installed.

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

First, check your owner's manual for the towing capacity and maximum tongue weight. With luck, it won't say "Not Recommended" and hitches will therefore be available for your vehicle.

Check the Yellow Pages under "Trailer Hitches" and make a few calls. You'll probably find that prices vary considerably.

You're looking for a Class I hitch for your vehicle with the right size ball (1 7/8-inch? - check the coupling on your trailer) and you'll also need a 4-pin socket for the plug for the trailer lights. You're probably looking at $100 or a little more, installed.

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

First, check your owner's manual for the towing capacity and maximum tongue weight. With luck, it won't say "Not Recommended" and hitches will therefore be available for your vehicle.

Check the Yellow Pages under "Trailer Hitches" and make a few calls. You'll probably find that prices vary considerably.

You're looking for a Class I hitch for your vehicle with the right size ball (1 7/8-inch? - check the coupling on your trailer) and you'll also need a 4-pin socket for the plug for the trailer lights. You're probably looking at $100 or a little more, installed.

Wayne

[Meerkat]

Maybe I can buy the hitch at the same time I buy the trailer - whenever that day comes (this was a "for future reference" query - have to keep dreams alive, you know).

[Meerkat]

Maybe I can buy the hitch at the same time I buy the trailer - whenever that day comes (this was a "for future reference" query - have to keep dreams alive, you know).

[Meerkat]

Maybe I can buy the hitch at the same time I buy the trailer - whenever that day comes (this was a "for future reference" query - have to keep dreams alive, you know).

[NormMessinger]

U-Haul... At least the one down the street here slapped on on our Ford Aerostar just as if they knew what they were doing.

[NormMessinger]

U-Haul... At least the one down the street here slapped on on our Ford Aerostar just as if they knew what they were doing.

[NormMessinger]

U-Haul... At least the one down the street here slapped on on our Ford Aerostar just as if they knew what they were doing.

[rbgarr]

U-Haul did a great job for me... the guy let me in the shop to look over his shoulder while he explained how he was hooking up the trailer's light plugs and even installed a rear facing floodlight to the hitch (I had it already) so I could see things better when using the ramp in the early AM or after dark. I don't remember how much it cost (8 years ago), but it was worth it, and none of it has ever given trouble after 3000 miles of trailing a 1000 lb. rig.

[ 12-23-2003, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[rbgarr]

U-Haul did a great job for me... the guy let me in the shop to look over his shoulder while he explained how he was hooking up the trailer's light plugs and even installed a rear facing floodlight to the hitch (I had it already) so I could see things better when using the ramp in the early AM or after dark. I don't remember how much it cost (8 years ago), but it was worth it, and none of it has ever given trouble after 3000 miles of trailing a 1000 lb. rig.

[ 12-23-2003, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[rbgarr]

U-Haul did a great job for me... the guy let me in the shop to look over his shoulder while he explained how he was hooking up the trailer's light plugs and even installed a rear facing floodlight to the hitch (I had it already) so I could see things better when using the ramp in the early AM or after dark. I don't remember how much it cost (8 years ago), but it was worth it, and none of it has ever given trouble after 3000 miles of trailing a 1000 lb. rig.

[ 12-23-2003, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: rbgarr ]

[Meerkat]

What are the actual implications of "not recommended"? The Suzuki is out of warranty, but I don't need car troubles! :eek:

[Meerkat]

What are the actual implications of "not recommended"? The Suzuki is out of warranty, but I don't need car troubles! :eek:

[Meerkat]

What are the actual implications of "not recommended"? The Suzuki is out of warranty, but I don't need car troubles! :eek:

[John Bell]

If it's one of the little 1000cc 3-cyl or a 1600cc 4-cyl jobs, then you will probably find that towing even the lightest trailer will have serious negative implications for your vehicle's longevity.

Most sub 2 liter FWD cars sold domestically probably shouldn't tow anything but very light loads for very short distances at very low speeds.

[John Bell]

If it's one of the little 1000cc 3-cyl or a 1600cc 4-cyl jobs, then you will probably find that towing even the lightest trailer will have serious negative implications for your vehicle's longevity.

Most sub 2 liter FWD cars sold domestically probably shouldn't tow anything but very light loads for very short distances at very low speeds.

[John Bell]

If it's one of the little 1000cc 3-cyl or a 1600cc 4-cyl jobs, then you will probably find that towing even the lightest trailer will have serious negative implications for your vehicle's longevity.

Most sub 2 liter FWD cars sold domestically probably shouldn't tow anything but very light loads for very short distances at very low speeds.

[John Bell]

I just did an online search for hitches for Suzukis. The only models that show any availability are the Sidekick, the Vitara and Grand Vitara, and the X-90. No one seems to have anything for the Esteem or the Swift. I have to assume that means towing is not recommended for those cars.

What year and model are you driving?

[John Bell]

I just did an online search for hitches for Suzukis. The only models that show any availability are the Sidekick, the Vitara and Grand Vitara, and the X-90. No one seems to have anything for the Esteem or the Swift. I have to assume that means towing is not recommended for those cars.

What year and model are you driving?

[John Bell]

I just did an online search for hitches for Suzukis. The only models that show any availability are the Sidekick, the Vitara and Grand Vitara, and the X-90. No one seems to have anything for the Esteem or the Swift. I have to assume that means towing is not recommended for those cars.

What year and model are you driving?

[On Vacation]

Towards 405 in Renton, take a right between the Saturn and Chevrolet dealership, go over the bridge, on the right, next to a wooden pallet shop, its right there. Something?? Truck accessories. Call the chevy dealership, Good Chevrolet, and ask them for the name.425) 235-2000 These guys have everything. Many U-Haul shops will install a hitch on any type of vehicle, also. Let your fingers do the walking. Make some calls. ;)

You will need oil coolers in some cases, to save your transmission.

[ 12-23-2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[On Vacation]

Towards 405 in Renton, take a right between the Saturn and Chevrolet dealership, go over the bridge, on the right, next to a wooden pallet shop, its right there. Something?? Truck accessories. Call the chevy dealership, Good Chevrolet, and ask them for the name.425) 235-2000 These guys have everything. Many U-Haul shops will install a hitch on any type of vehicle, also. Let your fingers do the walking. Make some calls. ;)

You will need oil coolers in some cases, to save your transmission.

[ 12-23-2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[On Vacation]

Towards 405 in Renton, take a right between the Saturn and Chevrolet dealership, go over the bridge, on the right, next to a wooden pallet shop, its right there. Something?? Truck accessories. Call the chevy dealership, Good Chevrolet, and ask them for the name.425) 235-2000 These guys have everything. Many U-Haul shops will install a hitch on any type of vehicle, also. Let your fingers do the walking. Make some calls. ;)

You will need oil coolers in some cases, to save your transmission.

[ 12-23-2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Oyster ]

[N. Scheuer]

I designed my own for my Neon to tow the new Melon Seed Skiff we picked up in North Carolina, then up to Boston, then back to Rockford Illinois.

It's a receiver hitch, for which I bought and cut the steel, then had a welding shop put together.

Later used it to tow my Son'e new Hobie-16 from Minneapolis to Milwaukee.

Doesn't seem to bother my Neon 2-dr Expresso, stick shift none.

Moby Nick

[N. Scheuer]

I designed my own for my Neon to tow the new Melon Seed Skiff we picked up in North Carolina, then up to Boston, then back to Rockford Illinois.

It's a receiver hitch, for which I bought and cut the steel, then had a welding shop put together.

Later used it to tow my Son'e new Hobie-16 from Minneapolis to Milwaukee.

Doesn't seem to bother my Neon 2-dr Expresso, stick shift none.

Moby Nick

[N. Scheuer]

I designed my own for my Neon to tow the new Melon Seed Skiff we picked up in North Carolina, then up to Boston, then back to Rockford Illinois.

It's a receiver hitch, for which I bought and cut the steel, then had a welding shop put together.

Later used it to tow my Son'e new Hobie-16 from Minneapolis to Milwaukee.

Doesn't seem to bother my Neon 2-dr Expresso, stick shift none.

Moby Nick

[Wayne Jeffers]

You said "a few hundred #." What kind of boat are you planning to trailer? What Suzuki do you have?

As a point of reference for towing capacity, my old Camry (2-litre, 4-cylinder, 5-speed manual) had a rated capacity of 1000 pounds with 100 pounds tongue weight. I had a Class I receiver put on it for about $65, IIRC, by an independent hitch dealer and I spent another $20 or so on the adapter/socket for the light plug that I installed myself. The lights took a special adapter because the foreign brand car had the separate yellow rear turn signal lights where most US cars do not, and a trailer does not, and so the wiring is different. This was about 10 years ago.

My trailer is about 200 pounds, the boat another 200, plus a light outboard, oars stowed inside, etc., the whole rig was maybe 500 pounds, tops. I had no problem towing it with my Camry.

Towing is not recommended with my Honda, even though it has twice the HP. ;) But I have a 3/4-ton truck and towing the boat trailer is a real piece of cake with that. :D

If your rig will be within the towing capacity of your car, you should have no major issues. Limiting the rig to 80 percent is a good idea and gives you a margin of error.

The "Not Recommended" will come into play if your engine/transmission is not up to the task of pulling the extra weight of if it could cause handling/stability issues.

Be especially careful of towing too much especially if you have an automatic transmission. Like Oyster said, a trailer can cause overheating issues with the transmission, manual or automatic. Towing also puts an extra strain on your braking system, because a light trailer will not have its own brakes. A heavy tongue weight can work like a lever at the rear axle and take weight off the front (steering) wheels. :eek: But if you're well within your car's rated limits you should have no worries.

If you have a car for which towing is not recommended, I wouldn't take the risk unless it's an old beater, in which case a welding shop could fabricate one for you. (It's unlikely you will find a ready-made hitch if towing is not recommended for your car.)

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

You said "a few hundred #." What kind of boat are you planning to trailer? What Suzuki do you have?

As a point of reference for towing capacity, my old Camry (2-litre, 4-cylinder, 5-speed manual) had a rated capacity of 1000 pounds with 100 pounds tongue weight. I had a Class I receiver put on it for about $65, IIRC, by an independent hitch dealer and I spent another $20 or so on the adapter/socket for the light plug that I installed myself. The lights took a special adapter because the foreign brand car had the separate yellow rear turn signal lights where most US cars do not, and a trailer does not, and so the wiring is different. This was about 10 years ago.

My trailer is about 200 pounds, the boat another 200, plus a light outboard, oars stowed inside, etc., the whole rig was maybe 500 pounds, tops. I had no problem towing it with my Camry.

Towing is not recommended with my Honda, even though it has twice the HP. ;) But I have a 3/4-ton truck and towing the boat trailer is a real piece of cake with that. :D

If your rig will be within the towing capacity of your car, you should have no major issues. Limiting the rig to 80 percent is a good idea and gives you a margin of error.

The "Not Recommended" will come into play if your engine/transmission is not up to the task of pulling the extra weight of if it could cause handling/stability issues.

Be especially careful of towing too much especially if you have an automatic transmission. Like Oyster said, a trailer can cause overheating issues with the transmission, manual or automatic. Towing also puts an extra strain on your braking system, because a light trailer will not have its own brakes. A heavy tongue weight can work like a lever at the rear axle and take weight off the front (steering) wheels. :eek: But if you're well within your car's rated limits you should have no worries.

If you have a car for which towing is not recommended, I wouldn't take the risk unless it's an old beater, in which case a welding shop could fabricate one for you. (It's unlikely you will find a ready-made hitch if towing is not recommended for your car.)

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

You said "a few hundred #." What kind of boat are you planning to trailer? What Suzuki do you have?

As a point of reference for towing capacity, my old Camry (2-litre, 4-cylinder, 5-speed manual) had a rated capacity of 1000 pounds with 100 pounds tongue weight. I had a Class I receiver put on it for about $65, IIRC, by an independent hitch dealer and I spent another $20 or so on the adapter/socket for the light plug that I installed myself. The lights took a special adapter because the foreign brand car had the separate yellow rear turn signal lights where most US cars do not, and a trailer does not, and so the wiring is different. This was about 10 years ago.

My trailer is about 200 pounds, the boat another 200, plus a light outboard, oars stowed inside, etc., the whole rig was maybe 500 pounds, tops. I had no problem towing it with my Camry.

Towing is not recommended with my Honda, even though it has twice the HP. ;) But I have a 3/4-ton truck and towing the boat trailer is a real piece of cake with that. :D

If your rig will be within the towing capacity of your car, you should have no major issues. Limiting the rig to 80 percent is a good idea and gives you a margin of error.

The "Not Recommended" will come into play if your engine/transmission is not up to the task of pulling the extra weight of if it could cause handling/stability issues.

Be especially careful of towing too much especially if you have an automatic transmission. Like Oyster said, a trailer can cause overheating issues with the transmission, manual or automatic. Towing also puts an extra strain on your braking system, because a light trailer will not have its own brakes. A heavy tongue weight can work like a lever at the rear axle and take weight off the front (steering) wheels. :eek: But if you're well within your car's rated limits you should have no worries.

If you have a car for which towing is not recommended, I wouldn't take the risk unless it's an old beater, in which case a welding shop could fabricate one for you. (It's unlikely you will find a ready-made hitch if towing is not recommended for your car.)

Wayne

[Figment]

Originally posted by Wayne Jeffers:

Towing also puts an extra strain on your braking system, because a light trailer will not have its own brakes. A heavy tongue weight can work like a lever at the rear axle and take weight off the front (steering) wheels.....

If you have a car for which towing is not recommended, I wouldn't take the risk unless it's an old beater, in which case a welding shop could fabricate one for you. (It's unlikely you will find a ready-made hitch if towing is not recommended for your car.)

WayneI think Wayne's onto something here. As far as I know, handling/braking capabilities limit a vehicles "rated" safe towing capacity more than anything else. Having lived the harrowing experience of riding in a vehicle that's being pushed around by its overweight trailer, I suggest you proceed with extreme caution.

But that's just me. Perhaps one of our european brethren will chime in to shout me down. Towing with small cars seems to be a way of life east of the pond.

[Figment]

Originally posted by Wayne Jeffers:

Towing also puts an extra strain on your braking system, because a light trailer will not have its own brakes. A heavy tongue weight can work like a lever at the rear axle and take weight off the front (steering) wheels.....

If you have a car for which towing is not recommended, I wouldn't take the risk unless it's an old beater, in which case a welding shop could fabricate one for you. (It's unlikely you will find a ready-made hitch if towing is not recommended for your car.)

WayneI think Wayne's onto something here. As far as I know, handling/braking capabilities limit a vehicles "rated" safe towing capacity more than anything else. Having lived the harrowing experience of riding in a vehicle that's being pushed around by its overweight trailer, I suggest you proceed with extreme caution.

But that's just me. Perhaps one of our european brethren will chime in to shout me down. Towing with small cars seems to be a way of life east of the pond.

[Figment]

Originally posted by Wayne Jeffers:

Towing also puts an extra strain on your braking system, because a light trailer will not have its own brakes. A heavy tongue weight can work like a lever at the rear axle and take weight off the front (steering) wheels.....

If you have a car for which towing is not recommended, I wouldn't take the risk unless it's an old beater, in which case a welding shop could fabricate one for you. (It's unlikely you will find a ready-made hitch if towing is not recommended for your car.)

WayneI think Wayne's onto something here. As far as I know, handling/braking capabilities limit a vehicles "rated" safe towing capacity more than anything else. Having lived the harrowing experience of riding in a vehicle that's being pushed around by its overweight trailer, I suggest you proceed with extreme caution.

But that's just me. Perhaps one of our european brethren will chime in to shout me down. Towing with small cars seems to be a way of life east of the pond.

[NormMessinger]

So how would a fifty pounds of tongue weight (10-15% of trailer GVW relate to say, a couple of you 200 lb friends in the back seat?

[NormMessinger]

So how would a fifty pounds of tongue weight (10-15% of trailer GVW relate to say, a couple of you 200 lb friends in the back seat?

[NormMessinger]

So how would a fifty pounds of tongue weight (10-15% of trailer GVW relate to say, a couple of you 200 lb friends in the back seat?

[Figment]

1) Lever arm. The force of that tongue weight gets multiplied by the distance between the tongue and the rear axle. the 400lbs of human does not.

2) Tongue weight, though a factor, isn't the real danger. The real danger is the full inertia of the trailer pushing the car around at speed..... Imagine you're tooling along at a comfy 40mph when some jackass pulls out in front of you. You stomp the brakes and swerve. At that instant, the full weight of that trailer is still proceeding at 40mph, but is PUSHING THE REAR OF THE CAR TO THE SIDE with the advantage of the abovementioned lever arm. Things get ugly really quickly.

[Figment]

1) Lever arm. The force of that tongue weight gets multiplied by the distance between the tongue and the rear axle. the 400lbs of human does not.

2) Tongue weight, though a factor, isn't the real danger. The real danger is the full inertia of the trailer pushing the car around at speed..... Imagine you're tooling along at a comfy 40mph when some jackass pulls out in front of you. You stomp the brakes and swerve. At that instant, the full weight of that trailer is still proceeding at 40mph, but is PUSHING THE REAR OF THE CAR TO THE SIDE with the advantage of the abovementioned lever arm. Things get ugly really quickly.

[Figment]

1) Lever arm. The force of that tongue weight gets multiplied by the distance between the tongue and the rear axle. the 400lbs of human does not.

2) Tongue weight, though a factor, isn't the real danger. The real danger is the full inertia of the trailer pushing the car around at speed..... Imagine you're tooling along at a comfy 40mph when some jackass pulls out in front of you. You stomp the brakes and swerve. At that instant, the full weight of that trailer is still proceeding at 40mph, but is PUSHING THE REAR OF THE CAR TO THE SIDE with the advantage of the abovementioned lever arm. Things get ugly really quickly.

[Mrleft8]

Did I ever tell you the story about the time I helped a friend move his newly purchased 30' Hunter "just down the street" to the launch spot? No? Well..... Let's just say that "just down the street" was really about 6 miles through the center of a busy town, on a Friday, at rush hour.... It's a really good thing that the cop directing traffic at that first intersection was laughing too hard to get in his car and chase me when I got pushed through the intersection....

[Mrleft8]

Did I ever tell you the story about the time I helped a friend move his newly purchased 30' Hunter "just down the street" to the launch spot? No? Well..... Let's just say that "just down the street" was really about 6 miles through the center of a busy town, on a Friday, at rush hour.... It's a really good thing that the cop directing traffic at that first intersection was laughing too hard to get in his car and chase me when I got pushed through the intersection....

[Mrleft8]

Did I ever tell you the story about the time I helped a friend move his newly purchased 30' Hunter "just down the street" to the launch spot? No? Well..... Let's just say that "just down the street" was really about 6 miles through the center of a busy town, on a Friday, at rush hour.... It's a really good thing that the cop directing traffic at that first intersection was laughing too hard to get in his car and chase me when I got pushed through the intersection....

[Wayne Jeffers]

I think it's an apples and oranges comparison, Norm.

Your friends in the back seat are forward of the rear axle, though maybe not by much. They may add 350 pounds to the rear axle and 50 pounds to the front axle, depending on the geometry of the car and the length of the arms of the levers.

50 pounds of weight on a hitch near the back bumper will put weight on the rear axle and remove weight from the front axle. Depending on the geometry of the car, this is probably no more than 25 pounds lifted off the front axle, so it is not significant. As Figment points out, braking under control could be an issue.

With my 3/4-ton truck, I have hauled over a ton in the bed and it does little more than smooth out the stiff suspension and slow acceleration. With 500 pounds tongue weight on the hitch (without weight distributing hitch to spread the load) the difference in control is noticeable, though the load is still in the rated range. (And trailers that heavy have their own brakes!)

I think the important thing is to stay well within the rated capacities for the vehicle. If Meerkat's idea of "a few hundred pounds" is a 700-pound Lightning on a 300 pound trailer with a couple of hundred pounds of gear in the boat, and a tongue weight of 200 pounds, towing it with a subcompact car could be interesting. ;)

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

I think it's an apples and oranges comparison, Norm.

Your friends in the back seat are forward of the rear axle, though maybe not by much. They may add 350 pounds to the rear axle and 50 pounds to the front axle, depending on the geometry of the car and the length of the arms of the levers.

50 pounds of weight on a hitch near the back bumper will put weight on the rear axle and remove weight from the front axle. Depending on the geometry of the car, this is probably no more than 25 pounds lifted off the front axle, so it is not significant. As Figment points out, braking under control could be an issue.

With my 3/4-ton truck, I have hauled over a ton in the bed and it does little more than smooth out the stiff suspension and slow acceleration. With 500 pounds tongue weight on the hitch (without weight distributing hitch to spread the load) the difference in control is noticeable, though the load is still in the rated range. (And trailers that heavy have their own brakes!)

I think the important thing is to stay well within the rated capacities for the vehicle. If Meerkat's idea of "a few hundred pounds" is a 700-pound Lightning on a 300 pound trailer with a couple of hundred pounds of gear in the boat, and a tongue weight of 200 pounds, towing it with a subcompact car could be interesting. ;)

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

I think it's an apples and oranges comparison, Norm.

Your friends in the back seat are forward of the rear axle, though maybe not by much. They may add 350 pounds to the rear axle and 50 pounds to the front axle, depending on the geometry of the car and the length of the arms of the levers.

50 pounds of weight on a hitch near the back bumper will put weight on the rear axle and remove weight from the front axle. Depending on the geometry of the car, this is probably no more than 25 pounds lifted off the front axle, so it is not significant. As Figment points out, braking under control could be an issue.

With my 3/4-ton truck, I have hauled over a ton in the bed and it does little more than smooth out the stiff suspension and slow acceleration. With 500 pounds tongue weight on the hitch (without weight distributing hitch to spread the load) the difference in control is noticeable, though the load is still in the rated range. (And trailers that heavy have their own brakes!)

I think the important thing is to stay well within the rated capacities for the vehicle. If Meerkat's idea of "a few hundred pounds" is a 700-pound Lightning on a 300 pound trailer with a couple of hundred pounds of gear in the boat, and a tongue weight of 200 pounds, towing it with a subcompact car could be interesting. ;)

Wayne

[Alan D. Hyde]

The worst thing about trailer hitches is that every three or five years, I'll walk behind the vehicle, forget the hitch is there, and bash my shin on it.

Beware! :D

(Yes, I just did it a couple of days ago. :mad: )

Alan

[ 12-24-2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

The worst thing about trailer hitches is that every three or five years, I'll walk behind the vehicle, forget the hitch is there, and bash my shin on it.

Beware! :D

(Yes, I just did it a couple of days ago. :mad: )

Alan

[ 12-24-2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Alan D. Hyde]

The worst thing about trailer hitches is that every three or five years, I'll walk behind the vehicle, forget the hitch is there, and bash my shin on it.

Beware! :D

(Yes, I just did it a couple of days ago. :mad: )

Alan

[ 12-24-2003, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Alan D. Hyde ]

[Bob Smalser]

As light as your boat and trailer will be...well under 1000 pounds...I wouldn't lose any sleep over either tongue weight or your sedan's braking ability, regardless of what the manufacturer's liability-driven warnings are.

If you are really concerned about it, bring it on over and we'll hit my favorite junkyard for parts and put some surge brakes on the trailer.

If you get into bigger boats or horses some day...well, that's a different story.

[Bob Smalser]

As light as your boat and trailer will be...well under 1000 pounds...I wouldn't lose any sleep over either tongue weight or your sedan's braking ability, regardless of what the manufacturer's liability-driven warnings are.

If you are really concerned about it, bring it on over and we'll hit my favorite junkyard for parts and put some surge brakes on the trailer.

If you get into bigger boats or horses some day...well, that's a different story.

[Bob Smalser]

As light as your boat and trailer will be...well under 1000 pounds...I wouldn't lose any sleep over either tongue weight or your sedan's braking ability, regardless of what the manufacturer's liability-driven warnings are.

If you are really concerned about it, bring it on over and we'll hit my favorite junkyard for parts and put some surge brakes on the trailer.

If you get into bigger boats or horses some day...well, that's a different story.

[Meerkat]

My Suzuki is a 1995 Esteem GLX. 1.6 litre EFI DOHC 16 valve, automatic overdrive transmission (OD can be selected "off"), ABS. Not at all zippy until it warms up, but that's been true from day one and the dealer said it was a trait of the engine. Warmed up, it can be quite zippy. Just on 60,000 miles on the odometer. I would buy a Suzuki again in a heartbeat: this car has been zero trouble (cross fingers, knock on wood). Next time it would be their small SUV though.

Still gets nearly 40 mpg on the highway! (But city milage has gone down for no good reason I know of - any ideas?)

[ 12-24-2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Meerkat]

My Suzuki is a 1995 Esteem GLX. 1.6 litre EFI DOHC 16 valve, automatic overdrive transmission (OD can be selected "off"), ABS. Not at all zippy until it warms up, but that's been true from day one and the dealer said it was a trait of the engine. Warmed up, it can be quite zippy. Just on 60,000 miles on the odometer. I would buy a Suzuki again in a heartbeat: this car has been zero trouble (cross fingers, knock on wood). Next time it would be their small SUV though.

Still gets nearly 40 mpg on the highway! (But city milage has gone down for no good reason I know of - any ideas?)

[ 12-24-2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Meerkat]

My Suzuki is a 1995 Esteem GLX. 1.6 litre EFI DOHC 16 valve, automatic overdrive transmission (OD can be selected "off"), ABS. Not at all zippy until it warms up, but that's been true from day one and the dealer said it was a trait of the engine. Warmed up, it can be quite zippy. Just on 60,000 miles on the odometer. I would buy a Suzuki again in a heartbeat: this car has been zero trouble (cross fingers, knock on wood). Next time it would be their small SUV though.

Still gets nearly 40 mpg on the highway! (But city milage has gone down for no good reason I know of - any ideas?)

[ 12-24-2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Meerkat ]

[Jack Heinlen]

I've been through this on a slightly different scale with my Mazda pickup and Drascombe Lugger. Though the bumper states a 2000 lb. capacity, the manual says 1000 without trailer brakes. Well, I figure the rig weighs about 1200, and though I looked into fitting it with brakes, it just didn't seem worth the trouble. The truck tows and stops just fine. But it is a gray area re liability, so I just don't carry my manual, and depend on the bumper rating. smile.gif

If your manual says 'not recommended' I'd be nervous using it as a tow vehicle for much more than to the nearest ramp and back home--and a little nervous even then. I think the car will tow the weight you say just fine, but if you get in a wreck... :confused: And there's no one to ask about it. Your insurance company/dealer will almost certainly tell you not to do it.

Damn lawyers.

BTW, a site with all kinds of good advice about this is Trailersailor.com, or something like that. Not that the advice here isn't first rate, but their forum is aimed specifically at towing boats.

[ 12-24-2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[Jack Heinlen]

I've been through this on a slightly different scale with my Mazda pickup and Drascombe Lugger. Though the bumper states a 2000 lb. capacity, the manual says 1000 without trailer brakes. Well, I figure the rig weighs about 1200, and though I looked into fitting it with brakes, it just didn't seem worth the trouble. The truck tows and stops just fine. But it is a gray area re liability, so I just don't carry my manual, and depend on the bumper rating. smile.gif

If your manual says 'not recommended' I'd be nervous using it as a tow vehicle for much more than to the nearest ramp and back home--and a little nervous even then. I think the car will tow the weight you say just fine, but if you get in a wreck... :confused: And there's no one to ask about it. Your insurance company/dealer will almost certainly tell you not to do it.

Damn lawyers.

BTW, a site with all kinds of good advice about this is Trailersailor.com, or something like that. Not that the advice here isn't first rate, but their forum is aimed specifically at towing boats.

[ 12-24-2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[Jack Heinlen]

I've been through this on a slightly different scale with my Mazda pickup and Drascombe Lugger. Though the bumper states a 2000 lb. capacity, the manual says 1000 without trailer brakes. Well, I figure the rig weighs about 1200, and though I looked into fitting it with brakes, it just didn't seem worth the trouble. The truck tows and stops just fine. But it is a gray area re liability, so I just don't carry my manual, and depend on the bumper rating. smile.gif

If your manual says 'not recommended' I'd be nervous using it as a tow vehicle for much more than to the nearest ramp and back home--and a little nervous even then. I think the car will tow the weight you say just fine, but if you get in a wreck... :confused: And there's no one to ask about it. Your insurance company/dealer will almost certainly tell you not to do it.

Damn lawyers.

BTW, a site with all kinds of good advice about this is Trailersailor.com, or something like that. Not that the advice here isn't first rate, but their forum is aimed specifically at towing boats.

[ 12-24-2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Jack Heinlen ]

[John Bell]

Another difference between towing and putting a couple of guys my size in the back seat is the aerodynamic drag. Fat white guys in the back seat might be windy and a drag to carry around, but they don't change the car's drag coefficient a whit. Once you get to about 40 mph, the aero drag of a boat on a trailer becomes a lot more apparent as you go faster. This places a lot more load on the engine and tranny. Locking out overdrive is essential, as is limiting your speed if you want to keep from damaging your car.

Probably the weakest link in your set up will be that little auto transaxle. What others have said about tranny coolers is advice worth heeding. IMO of course.

[John Bell]

Another difference between towing and putting a couple of guys my size in the back seat is the aerodynamic drag. Fat white guys in the back seat might be windy and a drag to carry around, but they don't change the car's drag coefficient a whit. Once you get to about 40 mph, the aero drag of a boat on a trailer becomes a lot more apparent as you go faster. This places a lot more load on the engine and tranny. Locking out overdrive is essential, as is limiting your speed if you want to keep from damaging your car.

Probably the weakest link in your set up will be that little auto transaxle. What others have said about tranny coolers is advice worth heeding. IMO of course.

[John Bell]

Another difference between towing and putting a couple of guys my size in the back seat is the aerodynamic drag. Fat white guys in the back seat might be windy and a drag to carry around, but they don't change the car's drag coefficient a whit. Once you get to about 40 mph, the aero drag of a boat on a trailer becomes a lot more apparent as you go faster. This places a lot more load on the engine and tranny. Locking out overdrive is essential, as is limiting your speed if you want to keep from damaging your car.

Probably the weakest link in your set up will be that little auto transaxle. What others have said about tranny coolers is advice worth heeding. IMO of course.

[Meerkat]

I'm in hopes that the trailer and boat will be (well under) 500# - hopefully, no more than about 300# (200# boat, 100# trailer).

[Meerkat]

I'm in hopes that the trailer and boat will be (well under) 500# - hopefully, no more than about 300# (200# boat, 100# trailer).

[Meerkat]

I'm in hopes that the trailer and boat will be (well under) 500# - hopefully, no more than about 300# (200# boat, 100# trailer).

[N. Scheuer]

Ya'know, Meerkat? At less than 500 lbs, I should think your top vehicle in question should be easily capable of handling that. And if not, maybe you'd be well rid of the vehicle if it croaked.

Keep in mind that the vehicle manufacturers are covering their asses all over the olace when they state a vehicles limitations. Common sense ought to be able to tell you something; like does your particular vehicle have anything left over when it is merely hauling itself around?

When I was looking for a used Chevy Pickup to haul my 3,600 lb (GVW) Shearwater yawl around, I didn't have a lot of Manufactiurer's specs available. However, the truck showed evidence of once having a big receiver hitch welded to the frame. So I took it out to the steepest hill I could find and pretended it was a launch ramp. I stopped at the steepest part of the grade, and then goosed it for all it was worth. What happened was that truck seemed like it was gonna launch itself right into outer space off the top of that hill. So I figured it had the cojones to haul my Shearwater Yawl.

After thousands of satisfactory miles towing the Shearwater, I 'd say my "qualification test" was OK.

So when it came time to conside5 how to mount a small receiver hitch on my Neon so it could tow the new Melon Seed Skiff, I didn't evern bother consulting the manual. I originally bought this particular car because they are assembled by my neighbors, number one, and because the rented ones I'd driven before on busainess could "haul ass" with a full load of company people inside, number tow, and because they cost a lot less than a Miata.

I've towed my Melon Seed about 4000 miles with the Neon, and 600 miles with a Hobie-16, and haven't burned up any clutches, nor harmed the car in any other way.

You oughta be able to just sorta tell whether tha vehicle has the poop to pull a small boat, or whether it's a wimp.

Moby Nick

[N. Scheuer]

Ya'know, Meerkat? At less than 500 lbs, I should think your top vehicle in question should be easily capable of handling that. And if not, maybe you'd be well rid of the vehicle if it croaked.

Keep in mind that the vehicle manufacturers are covering their asses all over the olace when they state a vehicles limitations. Common sense ought to be able to tell you something; like does your particular vehicle have anything left over when it is merely hauling itself around?

When I was looking for a used Chevy Pickup to haul my 3,600 lb (GVW) Shearwater yawl around, I didn't have a lot of Manufactiurer's specs available. However, the truck showed evidence of once having a big receiver hitch welded to the frame. So I took it out to the steepest hill I could find and pretended it was a launch ramp. I stopped at the steepest part of the grade, and then goosed it for all it was worth. What happened was that truck seemed like it was gonna launch itself right into outer space off the top of that hill. So I figured it had the cojones to haul my Shearwater Yawl.

After thousands of satisfactory miles towing the Shearwater, I 'd say my "qualification test" was OK.

So when it came time to conside5 how to mount a small receiver hitch on my Neon so it could tow the new Melon Seed Skiff, I didn't evern bother consulting the manual. I originally bought this particular car because they are assembled by my neighbors, number one, and because the rented ones I'd driven before on busainess could "haul ass" with a full load of company people inside, number tow, and because they cost a lot less than a Miata.

I've towed my Melon Seed about 4000 miles with the Neon, and 600 miles with a Hobie-16, and haven't burned up any clutches, nor harmed the car in any other way.

You oughta be able to just sorta tell whether tha vehicle has the poop to pull a small boat, or whether it's a wimp.

Moby Nick

[N. Scheuer]

Ya'know, Meerkat? At less than 500 lbs, I should think your top vehicle in question should be easily capable of handling that. And if not, maybe you'd be well rid of the vehicle if it croaked.

Keep in mind that the vehicle manufacturers are covering their asses all over the olace when they state a vehicles limitations. Common sense ought to be able to tell you something; like does your particular vehicle have anything left over when it is merely hauling itself around?

When I was looking for a used Chevy Pickup to haul my 3,600 lb (GVW) Shearwater yawl around, I didn't have a lot of Manufactiurer's specs available. However, the truck showed evidence of once having a big receiver hitch welded to the frame. So I took it out to the steepest hill I could find and pretended it was a launch ramp. I stopped at the steepest part of the grade, and then goosed it for all it was worth. What happened was that truck seemed like it was gonna launch itself right into outer space off the top of that hill. So I figured it had the cojones to haul my Shearwater Yawl.

After thousands of satisfactory miles towing the Shearwater, I 'd say my "qualification test" was OK.

So when it came time to conside5 how to mount a small receiver hitch on my Neon so it could tow the new Melon Seed Skiff, I didn't evern bother consulting the manual. I originally bought this particular car because they are assembled by my neighbors, number one, and because the rented ones I'd driven before on busainess could "haul ass" with a full load of company people inside, number tow, and because they cost a lot less than a Miata.

I've towed my Melon Seed about 4000 miles with the Neon, and 600 miles with a Hobie-16, and haven't burned up any clutches, nor harmed the car in any other way.

You oughta be able to just sorta tell whether tha vehicle has the poop to pull a small boat, or whether it's a wimp.

Moby Nick

[Bob Smalser]

I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.

[Bob Smalser]

I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.

[Bob Smalser]

I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.

[Wilson Fitt]

Make sure that it's strong...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid95/p5cabcb656465fbf784738734b04a0ab8/fa35226c.jpg

[Wilson Fitt]

Make sure that it's strong...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid95/p5cabcb656465fbf784738734b04a0ab8/fa35226c.jpg

[Wilson Fitt]

Make sure that it's strong...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid95/p5cabcb656465fbf784738734b04a0ab8/fa35226c.jpg

[Wayne Jeffers]

Originally posted by Bob Smalser:
I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.Bob,

If Meerkat's boat and trailer are less than 500 pounds, he will probably be a minimum of hazard to himself or to others on the road.

You don't say what the emergency was, but if you were knowingly towing on a public mountain highway a brakeless trailer that was three times the weight of your tow vehicle, I think you were grossly irresponsible unless that backhoe was urgently needed on the other side of the mountain to save someone's life. Is that the kind of thing you would do everyday? Would you take such an apparently cavalier attitude about felling timber? Is that really the kind of towing practice you want to recommend for others?

Sure, the manufacturers recommendations may be overly cautious or motivated by liability concerns, but for someone who has less experience than you in towing, I think following the recommended guidelines for the vehicle is good safety advice.

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

Originally posted by Bob Smalser:
I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.Bob,

If Meerkat's boat and trailer are less than 500 pounds, he will probably be a minimum of hazard to himself or to others on the road.

You don't say what the emergency was, but if you were knowingly towing on a public mountain highway a brakeless trailer that was three times the weight of your tow vehicle, I think you were grossly irresponsible unless that backhoe was urgently needed on the other side of the mountain to save someone's life. Is that the kind of thing you would do everyday? Would you take such an apparently cavalier attitude about felling timber? Is that really the kind of towing practice you want to recommend for others?

Sure, the manufacturers recommendations may be overly cautious or motivated by liability concerns, but for someone who has less experience than you in towing, I think following the recommended guidelines for the vehicle is good safety advice.

Wayne

[Wayne Jeffers]

Originally posted by Bob Smalser:
I'd tell the tale of pulling 17,000 pounds of backhoe and trailer in an emergency across the mountain with the old 6.9L F250 without trailer brakes, but I don't want to set a bad example for the nimrods listening.Bob,

If Meerkat's boat and trailer are less than 500 pounds, he will probably be a minimum of hazard to himself or to others on the road.

You don't say what the emergency was, but if you were knowingly towing on a public mountain highway a brakeless trailer that was three times the weight of your tow vehicle, I think you were grossly irresponsible unless that backhoe was urgently needed on the other side of the mountain to save someone's life. Is that the kind of thing you would do everyday? Would you take such an apparently cavalier attitude about felling timber? Is that really the kind of towing practice you want to recommend for others?

Sure, the manufacturers recommendations may be overly cautious or motivated by liability concerns, but for someone who has less experience than you in towing, I think following the recommended guidelines for the vehicle is good safety advice.

Wayne

[Bob Smalser]

I think you were grossly irresponsible... Shame on me...but such things can be done with care...once in a blue moon...the trailer did have brakes going up the mountain...

Seating Tire Beads

Mount the tire.
Remove the valve stem.
Squirt a tad of ether starting fluid into the tire thru the valve stem.
Start with tiny quantities first and work up.
Heat a 2’ length of mechanic’s wire to a cherry red end with the torch.
Put on gloves, long sleeves, eye and ear protection.
Poke the hot wire into the valve stem.
After the “pop”, replace the valve stem and inflate to specs.

[ 12-25-2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Bob Smalser]

I think you were grossly irresponsible... Shame on me...but such things can be done with care...once in a blue moon...the trailer did have brakes going up the mountain...

Seating Tire Beads

Mount the tire.
Remove the valve stem.
Squirt a tad of ether starting fluid into the tire thru the valve stem.
Start with tiny quantities first and work up.
Heat a 2’ length of mechanic’s wire to a cherry red end with the torch.
Put on gloves, long sleeves, eye and ear protection.
Poke the hot wire into the valve stem.
After the “pop”, replace the valve stem and inflate to specs.

[ 12-25-2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]

[Bob Smalser]

I think you were grossly irresponsible... Shame on me...but such things can be done with care...once in a blue moon...the trailer did have brakes going up the mountain...

Seating Tire Beads

Mount the tire.
Remove the valve stem.
Squirt a tad of ether starting fluid into the tire thru the valve stem.
Start with tiny quantities first and work up.
Heat a 2’ length of mechanic’s wire to a cherry red end with the torch.
Put on gloves, long sleeves, eye and ear protection.
Poke the hot wire into the valve stem.
After the “pop”, replace the valve stem and inflate to specs.

[ 12-25-2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Bob Smalser ]