S.Hemisphere: wood for gaff and boom jaws+tumbler

[Wendy Reymond]

I have done a search on this forum and while various timbers are mentioned (e.g. a thread started by Paul Carroll on 4/24/01 - 'Best wood for laminated gaff & boom jaws'), I wonder if anyone has advice on the following timber for gaff and boom jaws as well as the tumbler:

- European beech
- American oak
- Australian Blackbutt

If I mention those timbers, it is because they are the ones that seem to be available in our region of Australia. (The non-Australian timbers are cheapest - this will not surprise Australians..).
For the moment we can't locate a source of spotted gum or brigalow which are also apparently suitable Australian native timbers.
We would have to laminate the US oak as it is not available in large pieces.

Does anyone in the S. Hem advise any other native timbers, or easy to find non-native timbers?

Thanks
Wendy

[John B]

For the actual spar Oregon is the go. Spruce if you can get it. Spruce is lighter but is quite soft. Oregon has a good strength to weight. You need to ask around some timber yards .It's getting harder to find though.Oregon was imported in vast amounts historically to NZ and I have no doubt Aus. I'd use jarra for the jaws. Beautiful stuff that it is.

[skuthorp]

Wendy, talk to Mike Field. I got a beautiful recycled spar from him and he seems to have good contacts and should be able to give you the info you need.

[A-Dawg]

THE GOOD NEWS: I seem to remember seeing a posted link here or in another WB-type online forum. The site was begun by an Aussie (OY OY OY) who had similar issues that you are having. He was also getting similar answers: ie "Find American Wood." As I'm sure you know, shipping some doug fir from the great NW would bankroll a small nation, so what he did was set up a chart to compare US lumber with Aussie lumber. there were categories for glueing, strength under different load conditions and purchase cost of the down-under-lumber vs cost of the US lumber AND SHIPPING. It was an excellent site and all-inclusive.
Now the bad news: I've been searching like a madman and I cannot seem to find the link anywhere. If I do, I'll put up another post, but in the meantime, do a search. GOOD LUCK!
A-Dawg

[Wendy Reymond]

Thank you all for your posts.
John B: we have obtained some Oregon for the mast, boom and gaff. This was from a company in Queensland who import it from the W coast of the USA to made wooden ladders. It was not that expensive (all things being relative) because the company was importing it in any case and the freight from Brisbane was not exorbitant. Even given the price we paid for it, it will work out much cheaper than an aluminium mast, and much prettier. (We are putting a gaff rig on a steel hull). We should look at jarrah as you suggest - it is not in short supply for flooring at least. The beam across our fireplace is made of jarrah....

Skuthorp: good advice, thanks. Will follow up.

A-Dawg: We have a great little book called “Wood in Australia” by Keith Bootle which, in fact, is not confined to wood in Australia, but reviews all timbers and their properties (uses, strength, gluing, etc). This is where we identified blackbutt, spotted gum and brigalow.

Tony: We are on the Central Coast. Yes, you can get most of these timbers, the problem as we have experienced it, is getting to the timber before it gets all sawn up into floorboards or kitchen cabinet doors! We were lucky with the Oregon because there was a guy at the timber yard who understood what we were looking for and they also delivered the timber sawn to our specifications. We have tried Anagoat in Sydney with no luck, for brigalow and blackbutt. We have also tried local yards on the Central Coast. I think we will probably come across what we need in time, but if you know of other likely suppliers, that would be great.
Thanks, once again
Wendy

[Wooden Boat Fittings]

And just to round off the thread for future readers, Wendy and I have been talking to each other off-line to discuss the possibility of using laminated blackbutt or spotted gum floorboards, or marine ply, as well as other timbers including karri, southern blue gum, mountain ash, and white mahogany.

It seems that the best thing to do will probably be to go to the head of the chain and get in touch with the sawmillers themselves, to get the right timber before it is ripped at all.

Mike

[formerlyknownasprince]

Wendy

I've actually got two cousins in the tree business - one in Sydney, the other in Batemans Bay - the good news is that they both have mills and the Sydney one has some great chunks of aged Blackbutt.

I'll risk being flamed and admit that some years ago - before they got their mills, I even burnt Silky Oak in our open fire one winter - thousands of dollars worth of it.

The one in Batemans Bay is due to mill up some Spotted Gum soon and I have ordered some 3 x 1's suitable for my laminated frames - for which I want green timber.

Let me know what size chunk of Blackbutt you need and I'll cut it if I can. I have to go out and cut a new knee for my transom replacement job sometime in the next couple of weeks. Price - free if you arrange for it to be picked up.

Ian

[doorstop]

Wendy, Trend timbers in (or near) Sydney have a large range in all sorts of sizes of all sorts of timber.

[Wendy Reymond]

Chris, thanks.
Tried Trend (at Windsor). They don't have anything at the moment. We are now trying local sawmills.
Wendy

[Wendy Reymond]

Ian - that's tremendous, and very generous. Let me send you a private msg so we can possibly get together on the phone.
Wendy

[Aramas]

There's also an Australian Standards booklet called something like 'Timbers for Boatbuilding' (I can't find mine atm)that gives all the properties of Oz, NZ and other imported timbers, and includes engineering properties, durability, suitability for gluing, and what parts in a boat that they are suitable for.
Well worth the few dollars.
I don't really understand why anyone would have difficulty getting hold of oregon - it's a standard building industry timber here and I've seen it in quantity and large sections at almost every large hardware store that I've ever been in. Some still comes from North America, but a lot is plantation stuff from NZ.
I can undrstand wanting to work eucalypts when green - I once burnt out a heavy duty Skil drill drilling one 10mm hole in a 150mm seasoned bluegum beam. Good luck laminating Oz hardwoods though. You're braver than I. I'd use grown crooks or steam it in one piece if at all possible. smile.gif

[ 06-01-2002, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[Peter Duck]

Hello Wendy, I used Queensland Ironbark for my gaff and boom jaws. I bought it quite cheaply in thick planks from a garden supplies place. Tough as billy-o! Ifound that the only way to get a decent finish when shaping it is to use a "traditional shipwright's" angle grinder! The grain is all over the place and interlocked. Jarrah would be another one which I would use if I were doing this all over again. Have a talk to tree loppers; I have gained a whole log of lovely Blackwood this way, which, after seasoning, will go into my interior fitout. There are more ways of skinning a cat . . . .
Peter.

[Arthur Ransome]

AHOY!... PETER!

What are you doing down there in Australia? I never gave you permission to wander away right down there. You get back here to the East Coast immediately.

And don't give me any lip, either -- no-one gives cheek to his Creator and gets away with it.

D'ye hear me? I'll have your tobacco supply stopped forever if you're not home inside a twelve-month.

[Wendy Reymond]

Aramas - I am not an expert by any means, but I think there is oregon and oregon.
Here's a link http://www.timspec.co.nz/douglasfir.html
and an extract from the information under that link:
"With the relatively rapid growth rates in New Zealand, the timber tends to be less dense than its North American (old growth) counterpart. Also as a consequence of rapid growth, the trees are millable at an early age and the timber therefore is more knotty than that cut from old crop North American Douglas Fir.
In New Zealand, the timber is graded into Structural and Appearance grades.
The timber air dries easily to less than 25% mc, but is difficult to kiln dry to lower moisture contents without badly damaging the knot structure. The timber is not suitable for furniture manufacture or other end uses requiring a high quality surface finish".

Tony: thanks for the suggestions. I was just trying on Friday to remember the name of Rozelle Recycled Timbers! But it looks like Ian's very generous offer may be the solution.
Wendy

[Aramas]

Wendy - Tell me about it. Last summer I laminated new full length oregon engine bearers into a 18' Hamilton Jet (built at the HJ factory in Coffs Harbour in the 70's). I'm pretty sure it was kiwi stuff - it was as green as could be. The first one went in ok, but by the time I got around to the second one it was twisted up like shoelaces. Still, by cutting off the worst of the twist and a bit of creative clamping, it worked out ok smile.gif .
My concern over laminating eucalypt stems from its incredible strength and toughness, and its high radial shrinkage rate from wet to dry (10-12% vs 2-3% for softwoods). The internal forces that would result from the absorbtion of water due to any compromising of the epoxy barrier would be staggering.
And I must confess that the ubiquitous angle grinder (or disc sander, as the yanks call it) is my favourite woodworking tool. Anyone that considers it's use sacreligious would do well to check out the woodenboat article about the guy that used one to fair new Chris-Craft mahogany runabouts for years (it's in the WB book thats called something like 'Wooden Boats: An Appreciation of the Craft')

[ 06-03-2002, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Aramas ]

[formerlyknownasprince]

Arrghhh - nearly got this done late on Sunday but got beaten by the sunset (ask my son why he always leaves his paper run to the last minute?)

We chopped the 75mm x 700mm x 500mm x 106 degree knee I needed out of the roots of a Red Bloodwood (possibly a grey gum) that had been knocked over ten years ago. Damned knee is that heavy that I can hardly lift it. The one inch thick slices we took off to thin the knee down literally rang when struck - now that is hard timber!

We started out with an 18 inch chainsaw, moved up to a 20 incher then finally brought out the big gun - a 92cc monster - which cuts like the proverbial hot knife through butter.

The tree was about 14 inches in diameter above the root area and we cut two of the pieces needed for the boom / gaff jaws, but I wasn't happy with the lay of the grain - it ended up diagonal, rather than flat across the width. We also ended up with a little bit of sapwood on one of the corners - so we burned it with the bonfire last night. We had tried to pull another log out of this pile with the tractor, but ended up with the rear wheels off the ground.

All is not lost - we'll go back either next weekend or the following and take it out of a larger diameter Blackbutt that I took a knee out of last year. If you and Felix want to come out, I'll co-ordinate it with my cousin - we kept it to a small party this weekend to coincide with cracker night so the kids could use up about 350 rounds of .22 ammo and some fireworks.

Ahhh the joys of boatbuilding.

Ian

[Wendy Reymond]

Ian - thanks so much for your call yesterday and for all your efforts. Glad the blackbutt served some purpose, if not to end up in our boat! Glad, also, that you got your knee. Just give us a call to say when might be a good time to accompany you to the cousin's place. No huge rush, as we have plenty to keep us occupied!
Best
Wendy + Felix

[formerlyknownasprince]

Got it - two ruddy great slabs of blackbutt in the boot of the car at present. Enough for 6 or possibly more of the required pieces - believe you need 4. We took a five foot long, five inch thick slice out of a two foot diameter blackbutt that has been down for four to five years. Same tree donated one of the breasthooks for my boat.

We didn't do the final cuts, so Felix can orient the grain whichever way he thinks will work best. There's a guy near here with a couple of bandsaws that can cut it - although its easy enough to do with a small saw now.

I'll give Felix a call, or he can call me.

Ian

[Wendy Reymond]

All's well that ends well - thanks to Ian, we now have two large slabs of blackbutt. Felix drew the gaff jaws full size last week and will now have to make a pattern. We will let you know how we go!

Ian - thank you very, very much. We have painted the ends as you advised, to stop any checking. Hope all continues to go well with your restoration.
Wendy

[Mike Field]

Ah. I do like happy endings.