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View Full Version : I think we should all now be thankful to Scotland



peb
09-20-2014, 12:37 PM
It seems to me that the independence vote in Scotland really did turn out right. Not just who won, but also that the yes vote was large enough to effect real change.
The governments, throughout the whole world today, have completely abandoned the principle of subsidiarity and drive onwards and constantly in moving policy and administration further and further away from the people.

Now, the Scots have said "no". The UK will likely greatly reduce its list of reserved powers and move towards a much greater degree of autonomy for Scotland, Wales and England. Many other regions throughout Europe will demand the same. Power will go from the national governments down to autonomous regions as opposed to going from national governments up to Brussels. I cannot help but think this same trend will affect the USA in a positive way.

A yes vote, ironically, may have ultimately had the opposite effect. More and more nations are broken up into smaller nations. Increasing exponentially the number of international relations, with the ultimate solution being just to send more power to the EU.

We don't need more nations, we need more policy and administration decisions being made closer to the people. Scotland may be reversing the trend of the last 50-75 years. That's a very good thing.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
09-20-2014, 12:47 PM
This story has many many more chapters.....

bobbys
09-20-2014, 12:49 PM
I liked all the interviews. Listening to those Scottish accents..

slug
09-20-2014, 12:53 PM
Scotland already has a great deal of autonomy. Its hard to visualise how they can be granted even more.

peb
09-20-2014, 01:01 PM
Many more chapters? That's my point, I think they may very well be good chapters.

peb
09-20-2014, 01:07 PM
Scotland already has a great deal of autonomy. Its hard to visualise how they can be granted even more.



Look under the title Specific Reservations and you will find that there are many areas of legislation where the power is reserved to the UK parliament. A few, legitimately so, but most of the can certainly be devolved.



Just seeing that list gives one galring example of what I mean by abandonment of subdidiarity

JimD
09-20-2014, 01:16 PM
If you have to ask someone to grant you something you're not very autonomous.

birlinn
09-20-2014, 03:05 PM
My favorite part of the news coverage was I learned a new word.....haar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haar_%28fog%29).
Is that Haar, Jim lad...
It is called haar down in Lincolnshire as well, rather than sea fret.

Chip-skiff
09-20-2014, 03:16 PM
If you have to ask someone to grant you something you're not very autonomous.

Bingo! :d

If the vote had been yes, the Poms were threatening to start their own whisky distilleries.

Jim Bow
09-20-2014, 03:40 PM
I know that Sean Connery and Andy Murray spoke out. Did we hear anything from Billy Conelly or Craig Ferguson?

Aljazeera interviewed a tall young lady with red untamable hair and a face full of freckles, plus's that Scots accent. The world fell in love.

Gerarddm
09-20-2014, 04:17 PM
#1: By golly peb, I feel like Brian The Dog from that Rush Limbaugh episode of Family Guy.


;-)

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-22-2014, 10:35 AM
A very fair sumary.

A Catalan friend remarked that "Scotland won - they Scots voted and they got what they wanted!"

The term "haar" is in common use as far south as Essex; however it must be remembered that the North Sea fishing community was by definition mobile and much intermarried, from Inverness to Ramsgate.

TomF
09-22-2014, 10:48 AM
Worth thinking on the experience we've had here in Canada. One referendum is simply that ... one referendum. It is frankly to be expected that supporters from the Yes side will regroup and try to win in a future vote.

Part of that, here at least, involves characterizing those who voted "No" as driven by fear, and the "No" leaders as fear-mongerers. Former Quebec premier Jean Charest observed this the other day, noting that it implies that the "No" side position was illegitimate ... a form of cheating. Here, we had the "no" vote blamed on the monied class, and "ethnic" voters who (while Francophone) weren't from generations-old Quebec families. That hasn't happened (yet at least) in what I've heard in the Scotland referendum's debriefing, but the characterization of fear-mongering (a "cheating" tactic) is certainly there.

It isn't a single race, eh? It's to be understood that whatever political changes occur in the aftermath, they won't satisfy the heartfelt desire of sovereigntists. They can't - because they'll fall short of full sovereignty. So expect a series of referenda in coming years, with the next one being closer fought. "No" can win many, many times ... but it only takes once for "Yes."

Keith Wilson
09-22-2014, 10:50 AM
"Haar"? So that's what we got on San Francisco Bay on summer afternoons? Learned something new. Does the extra 'a' change the pronunciation?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2395/2350828130_c253386df0.jpg

S.V. Airlie
09-22-2014, 02:12 PM
I theory, you might be right but, the English government appears to be backpedalling as fast as they can from the promises they made

TomF
09-22-2014, 02:20 PM
I theory, you might be right but, the English government appears to be backpedalling as fast as they can from the promises they madeThen the next referendum will come sooner, and be more decisive, IMO.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
09-22-2014, 02:42 PM
SNP has just grown by 17,000 members in the last four days!

Milliband is behaving as a clueless idiot - Cameron has just dug himself a good sized hole - Clegg is headed for the dustbin of history.

Life would be much simpler had the Yes campaign won.


Nigel (The Destroyer) could be the big winner next May.

S.V. Airlie
09-22-2014, 02:42 PM
Then the next referendum will come sooner, and be more decisive, IMO.Yup but, who is gonna lead? The last leader resigned after losing.

TomF
09-22-2014, 02:47 PM
Yup but, who is gonna lead? The last leader resigned after losing.There's a supply in the wings, I'm sure. There were in Quebec.

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
09-22-2014, 03:23 PM
Yup but, who is gonna lead? The last leader resigned after losing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicola_Sturgeon

S.V. Airlie
09-22-2014, 03:25 PM
I'm glad Sturgeons aren't endangered in Scotland!:)

TomF
09-22-2014, 03:28 PM
I'd be surprised if the next referendum would happen under her tenure - just because I'd think a gap of 5-10 years is more likely. It'd be the next leader, I think, who'd rise to fiery prominence claiming the failure and betrayal of UK promises made during this campaign.

Gotta give enough time for political devolution to get gummed up somehow, but not enough time for the UK economy to really thrive and throw off benefits into Scotland.

S.V. Airlie
09-22-2014, 03:31 PM
I agree with the time frame!

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-22-2014, 03:43 PM
I see things differently to Doug; I think there will be a few weeks of bad temper from the losers, and then life will carry on.

I see no evidence of "back pedalling".

S.V. Airlie
09-22-2014, 03:45 PM
Do you think you are biased living in England Andrew?

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
09-23-2014, 01:35 AM
I see things differently to Doug; I think there will be a few weeks of bad temper from the losers, and then life will carry on.

I see no evidence of "back pedalling".

The initial problem is not north of the border.

English Votes For English Laws

P.I. Stazzer-Newt
09-23-2014, 02:11 AM
SNP has just grown by 17,000 members in the last four days!
.

Correction 20K

Taking the Scotland only SNP beyond the UK-wide Liberal Democrat party in membership numbers.

Andrew Craig-Bennett
09-30-2014, 09:10 AM
The initial problem is not north of the border.

English Votes For English Laws

Again, Doug, we differ!

I think the West Lothian Question has no real traction because it is simply too abstruse for the average voter; this issue can be shelved in due course, when the Tory Right are distracted by the "bigger issue" of EU membership.