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davebrown
08-17-2014, 12:38 AM
...Hvalsoe 13."

Rich Jones
08-17-2014, 08:09 AM
A great subject for Eric to write about!!

Rich Jones
08-17-2014, 04:34 PM
C'mon, Dave. Ya gotta go somewhere with this thread.... I'm curious.

upchurchmr
08-17-2014, 05:52 PM
The title was good bait - lets try not to waste it.

davebrown
08-19-2014, 01:38 AM
It's just an absolutely perfect boat for the build section. Don't you guys think? So maybe the editors are paying attention.

Eric Hvalsoe
08-19-2014, 02:12 AM
Cedar or ply?

jsjpd1
08-19-2014, 03:24 AM
Cedar!

TerryLL
08-19-2014, 08:40 AM
Cedar or ply?

Has to be traditional riveted lap, bent ribs, cedar, white oak, boat soup. There must be boat soup. Maybe WB can include a few scratch and sniffs.

Eric Hvalsoe
08-19-2014, 10:01 AM
Clenched lap, rivited rails, red cedar plank, bent WO ribs, bits of mahoganies and other hardwoods, sometimes fir for the keel and apron, often spruce for thwarts and always spars, seafin teak oil with a smidge of pine tar for extra scratch and sniff aroma.

davebrown
08-20-2014, 12:20 AM
Cedar it is! The Man himself speaketh.

Eric Hvalsoe
08-23-2014, 11:26 AM
Very flattered but not holding my breath Dave. I do think my traditional lap schtick is probably something worth recording for posterity. So many small craft construction techniques have overtaken traditional lapstrake work. Still there is value and some interest in it.

jsjpd1
08-23-2014, 11:50 AM
I think you're mistaken there Eric. I would argue that you should do an article precisely because so many other building techniques are out there now being pushed. It would be wonderful to see some more advocacy at the magazine level for traditional lapstrake how to's. It's important to show that this technique is within the realm of the possible for the home builder if it is to remain viable. At one point I kind of thought that was one of Woodenboat's missions.

Jim

Paul Girouard
08-23-2014, 12:58 PM
I think you're mistaken there Eric. I would argue that you should do an article precisely because so many other building techniques are out there now being pushed. It would be wonderful to see some more advocacy at the magazine level for traditional lapstrake how to's. It's important to show that this technique is within the realm of the possible for the home builder if it is to remain viable. At one point I kind of thought that was one of Woodenboat's missions.

Jim



+ one! Go for it Eric!

BBSebens
08-23-2014, 04:46 PM
Lets find someone to commission a new HV13, 16, or 18 from Eric, and then he can document the build in exquisite detail, similar to the way that Ledger is doing his catboat.


Anybody got some extra cash laying around?

J.Madison
08-23-2014, 06:54 PM
Man I would love to read a magazine quality article about a trad lapstrake build. I am growing so disillusioned by the amount of plywood and goo showing up in our magazine. I understand it has its place. I wish its place wasn't 99% of the just launched page, 90% of the how to build articles, and 60% of the magazine as a whole.

Plywood is great for some things. It sure lacks the romance that I go to woodenboat magazine for.

Nothing could be better than a detailed writeup of Hvalsoe's tricks and techniques as he makes one of his lovely boats!

KMacDonald
08-23-2014, 06:59 PM
Man I would love to read a magazine quality article about a trad lapstrake build. I am growing so disillusioned by the amount of plywood and goo showing up in our magazine. I understand it has its place. I wish its place wasn't 99% of the just launched page, 90% of the how to build articles, and 60% of the magazine as a whole.

Plywood is great for some things. It sure lacks the romance that I go to woodenboat magazine for.

Nothing could be better than a detailed writeup of Hvalsoe's tricks and techniques as he makes one of his lovely boats!

If you store the boat on a trailer and actually use it plywood is hard to beat. The percentages you quote reflect its superiority.

Eric Hvalsoe
08-24-2014, 12:24 AM
To each his own. I just finished a clc wherry for a client, great boat, great choice for my friend. I am also refurbishing a 30 year old Hvalsoe 15, the owner will get a lot of enjoyment out of this boat. Part of the satisfaction comes in the process. I do store my cedar boat on a trailer and I do actually use it. It remains dry after 14 years and a number of adventures. Given the circumstances I might direct a client to one method of construction over another. There are a lot of choices for the homebuilder these days.
It is not difficult to understand the preponderance of epoxy applications. It gives a whole lot of people a more feasible avenue to more complex hull shapes. That's great. It gives clients some advantages.

On the other hand I share many of JMadison's sentiments. It's great to work with cedar and solid lumber, it's great to be on the water in something built of the stuff.

In fairness to our host, WB has given me bit of ink over the years, of which I am most appreciative. This has included some of my lapstrake work, though not a detailed look at construction techniques. A few of my students have gotten the scoop firsthand.

It's been interesting going over this 30 year old HV15. A forensic investigation of oneself. Finally figured out the story.

Paul Pless
08-24-2014, 11:03 AM
Lets find someone to commission a new HV13, 16, or 18 from Eric, and then he can document the build in exquisite detail, similar to the way that Ledger is doing his catboat.


Anybody got some extra cash laying around?when i get rich i'm gonna commision a hvalsoe step hydro. . . :D


if i'm not mistaken, Eric also teaches boatbuilding; perhaps a how to build article on one of his lapstrake boats that is centered on one of his small classes would be an interesting angle. . .

Eric Hvalsoe
08-24-2014, 01:43 PM
Erster identify where 'here' is again for us. From where I sit in the PNW the first part of your statement is a bit broad, or at least poorly expressed, but by and large I will not argue with you. I know what works with my traditional lapstrake boats. I'm happy there remains some interest in the craft. My business includes a lot of repair and maintenance work. The crux is not so much figuring out market forces for new construction. In any case it is hard to imagine a strong market force for new construction of small craft in this context, but it is an interesting question. I've had some inquiries regarding the 18, cedar or ply. It is a legitimate question in terms of formatting plans. Given the opportunity I imagine interest in a ply lap hull would outstrip, though not obliterate interest in a cedar version.

The HV series was always a niche in a niche. Some people appreciate them most as an expression of traditional materials and skills. No objection from me.

Eric Hvalsoe
08-24-2014, 02:36 PM
Erster, got it. By 'here' you meant the forum. I thought perhaps you were talking about your locality. I suppose there is some bias toward sail, oar and combinations thereoff. Then again there seems to be a bit of everything. Never thought of the magazine as particularly following the lead of the forum, interesting if true. That is a lot of sway. Your builds are always interesting.

James McMullen
08-24-2014, 09:54 PM
First, HV-13, awesome, Dave! Good for you! That's a delightful boat.

Second, a dedicated section of the forum just for motorboats? I'm 100% in favor of that. An excellent idea, well worth pursuing. Please add my "YES!" vote to your tally. By all means, let's make this happen.

I promise never to visit, not even once.

Rich Jones
08-24-2014, 10:12 PM
Uh oh.... I'm starting to feel guilty, having been the one to build the first glued-lap HV-13....

And now I'm contemplating building a motorized fantail launch, a motor boat, for God's sake... oh dear, I'm going straight to Hell!:) But, I think an article on a traditional lap HV-13 would be great. Everyone and his brother knows how to do strip-plank, glued lap and stripper boats, but the art of traditional lap would be something to see.

J.Madison
08-24-2014, 10:13 PM
I like motorboats. Especially big heavy slow ones.

I like sailing in company of plywood boats. Its great.
Plywood is also great. Wonderful stuff. So is fiberglass for that matter. Building a boat out of either material is just dandy. I never will again. Nor will I pay to read about it, unless there is a really good article about a boat made from timber next to it. And then I'll grumble.

I buy woodenboat magazine for something different. Actual wooden boats. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on that, but surely there is a point where the plywood just takes over too much?

davebrown
08-25-2014, 02:01 AM
Ah hell. I am just trying to generate some interest from the editors in a how-to article, not start a fight between ply vs. cedar. I would prefer to build with cedar but I have not because of the climate here, in godawful Sacramento. I wouldn't trailer sail one in Phoenix, Death Valley, or Yemen, which are so much cooler in the summer than here, in cedar because I would be afraid it would self-destruct in the garage or on the asphalt. I am certain Eric knows more about it than me, so maybe it would work out. But we can all agree this boat would make a great how-to article, right?

Paul Pless
08-25-2014, 11:51 AM
First, HV-13, awesome, Dave! Good for you! That's a delightful boat.

Second, a dedicated section of the forum just for motorboats? I'm 100% in favor of that. An excellent idea, well worth pursuing. Please add my "YES!" vote to your tally. By all means, let's make this happen.

I promise never to visit, not even once.Are wooden powerboats designed and built so differently from other types of woodenboats that won't learn something from them or you can't appreciate their craftsmanship?

James McMullen
08-25-2014, 01:20 PM
Paul, I work mostly on large wooden powerboats in my business, 5-6 days a week. But they're not what I'm interested in recreationally. I visit this forum for recreation. Don't want to read about no more powerboats, especially amateur built small ones.

But I understand that there are people who do want to, and I think it would be just great if they had their own place to congregate. Just as I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't row to care all that much about Sail & Oar boats*, you shouldn't expect me to seek out or enjoy threads about runabouts or whatever. And if you're the kind of wishy-washy scoundrel who can't draw a line in the sand and make a stand for the One True Way of Boating, then I guess you'll just have to read and enjoy all of the damn threads. But you do that on your own, mister!



*which somehow doesn't stop a surprising number of folks from having Very Strong Opinions on the subject, despite not actually personally participating.

J.Madison
08-25-2014, 01:58 PM
Ah hell. I am just trying to generate some interest from the editors in a how-to article, not start a fight between ply vs. cedar...........................
But we can all agree this boat would make a great how-to article, right?\

Yeah sorry.

It would make a great how-to article!

Eric Hvalsoe
08-25-2014, 11:19 PM
Ah hell indeed.

You're ok Madison. Erster, real or not, I'm sorry you feel some sense of hostility. Hope it ain't coming from me. Sad to to say I seemed to have just seen a glimmer of it.
Not taking a thing away from that lovely 13 of yours RJ.

Thanks for the bump Dave. You might be surprised how a well built CVG cedar boat would do in your local. But I admit that glued lap is a more sure bet. I've seen the cedar boats endure pretty remarkable extremes. The achilles heel has been the centerboard trunk rather than the planking. With the available accumulated history I might put the trunk together differently than for a boat remaining in the Puget Sound region.

I always imagined a book. How 20th century, and what a lot of work.

Gerarddm
08-26-2014, 12:49 AM
You need a ghostwriter, Eric.

J.Madison
08-27-2014, 11:19 AM
I'd buy the book. No doubt. If the whole thing was done with color photos it would double as a coffee table book/work or art/instruction manual.

That must make it expensive though, I don't think I've ever seen a boat building book in color.

davebrown
08-28-2014, 01:25 AM
Erster builds some superb boats. He has been a great guy to me both on the phone and on the internet with some planking questions I had with my deadrise skiff, which hull I may have finished this weekend if I don't sail the whole time. The HV13 deserves a book.

davebrown
08-28-2014, 01:34 AM
We are a democracy in the land of kings. Editors, can you hear us?

Eric Hvalsoe
08-28-2014, 12:23 PM
I was awoken by a lovely sounding woman with a beguiling English accent on the phone this morning. She was calling from a magazine in the UK to let me know they were running an article by a fellow who had built an HV13 from my plans, plank on frame. I was half asleep and did not retain the name of the magazine (or the charming woman!). I recognized the name of the fella. As I recall he put a distinctive local spin on the interpretation of the build. That would be interesting. Someone once sent me an image that I swear had to have been an HV13 moored in the grasses of a lake in the Scottish Highlands. Or somewhere like that. The trail went cold. Sounds crazy, but people recognize their own children.

One of my 13's has migrated to and fro across the country, last location Illinois, for sale. I talked to someone who really really wanted to take it to the high lakes of New Mexico. Apparently there are high lakes in New Mexico. On this I expressed some caution. He was very much taken by the boat, but may have demurred.

LivingTheDream
09-04-2014, 05:49 PM
Mr. Madison (spoken reverently),
Your traditional values and work are an inspiration. If the whole world thought as you do, it would be a better place. Imagine others, not only using real wood, but cutting down the trees from where it came!

upchurchmr
09-04-2014, 06:04 PM
Isn't cutting down trees ecologically bad?

You need to include planting trees to replace what ever you cut. :rolleyes:

LivingTheDream
09-04-2014, 06:32 PM
True, although looking at the pictures in his thread on 'Building the Maid', there were plenty trees. I think as soon as he cut that one down, it spread new sun on a hundred seedlings that will now flourish.

Actually, I thought this thread was an update on his Building the Maid thread, and clicked it by mistake!

By the way, I do really appreciate the articles on the 'old ways'. There is a place for them. Older issues of WBM are like tiny time capsules that future generations can review. I really like reading the old Popular Mechanics articles with plans for small sailboats that you can 'build in your own yard!'. They were so simple and elegant. That said, I just acquired a '56 Chris Craft Continental that needs to be rebuilt, and I will break down and follow the tried and true method using 5200 to bed the mahogany planking over a plywood bottom. Progress they call it...

BBSebens
09-05-2014, 12:08 AM
Selectively thinning a stand of trees can be beneficial, but that is some that can so easily be taken a little too far.